ToinTheBoi
Smash Rookie
I feel like ike is just overpowered. But I know he isn't. What are his weaknesses
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WHAT ARE HIS WEAKNESSES??!?!?!??
- Thread starter ToinTheBoi
- Start date
Baby_Sneak
Smash Champion
Combo food is a big one that I know
Arrei
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Nov 25, 2014
- Messages
- 1,303
Ike's ground moves mostly have long reach but pretty significant lag, meaning he's disadvantaged if you can get in on him and stay there. He wants to keep you out, so you want to get in - but don't get so carried away that you forget about his jab and Dtilt, which aren't the fastest but still pack good speed and reach, especially his jabs because he has one of the few jabs where he moves his body forward as he performs them to give him deceptively long range.
The same disadvantage applies even moreso when you get him into the air, as with no sex kick he has few options to get opponents off of him in the air, provided you can maneuver so you're not right in the way of an aerial. Most notably he has poor options for attacking below him, so combo from below and make landing difficult for him.
His recovery is also vulnerable to attack if he gets predictable and readable - Aether can be gimped with a long lasting hitbox after the jump if you can avoid his sword, or spiked or blasted with a projectile at the apex if you know where he's going to hover. Quick Draw can also be swatted out of the recovery on a read if you have a quick, long-reaching move.
The same disadvantage applies even moreso when you get him into the air, as with no sex kick he has few options to get opponents off of him in the air, provided you can maneuver so you're not right in the way of an aerial. Most notably he has poor options for attacking below him, so combo from below and make landing difficult for him.
His recovery is also vulnerable to attack if he gets predictable and readable - Aether can be gimped with a long lasting hitbox after the jump if you can avoid his sword, or spiked or blasted with a projectile at the apex if you know where he's going to hover. Quick Draw can also be swatted out of the recovery on a read if you have a quick, long-reaching move.
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ToinTheBoi
Smash Rookie
Thanks!
goose32
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2006
- Messages
- 44
Main issues:
- easily combo'd: besides b-air, none of his aerials are fast. They have good reach and damage, but all take a while to come out. If you get him in the air, do everything you can to keep him there and rack up percent. Think of characters like Shiek, Mario, ZSS, heck even Captain Falcon (but that match-up is pretty even, maybe even in Ike's favor).
- no projectile, limited approach options: Ike's neutral isn't terrible, but it's not oppressive, either. If you can camp him out and he's impatient, you can control the stage. If he's patient and looks to outmaneuver / powershield your projectiles, it might not work as effectively if your character is weak up close. I tend to struggle against R.O.B., who can make it difficult to approach and also has good options once I actually do close the gap.
- laggy moves, easily punished if poorly spaced : Ike's moves are strong and have good reach, but they have both substantial startup and end lag. If he spaces correctly, it's difficult to punish for many characters, but as long as you don't get locked in your shield you should have some opportunities (most Ike's don't space perfectly).
- easily combo'd: besides b-air, none of his aerials are fast. They have good reach and damage, but all take a while to come out. If you get him in the air, do everything you can to keep him there and rack up percent. Think of characters like Shiek, Mario, ZSS, heck even Captain Falcon (but that match-up is pretty even, maybe even in Ike's favor).
- no projectile, limited approach options: Ike's neutral isn't terrible, but it's not oppressive, either. If you can camp him out and he's impatient, you can control the stage. If he's patient and looks to outmaneuver / powershield your projectiles, it might not work as effectively if your character is weak up close. I tend to struggle against R.O.B., who can make it difficult to approach and also has good options once I actually do close the gap.
- laggy moves, easily punished if poorly spaced : Ike's moves are strong and have good reach, but they have both substantial startup and end lag. If he spaces correctly, it's difficult to punish for many characters, but as long as you don't get locked in your shield you should have some opportunities (most Ike's don't space perfectly).
HeavyLobster
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Jun 7, 2014
- Messages
- 2,074
- NNID
- HeavyLobster43
Ike's very juggle prone. Good combo characters will rack up tons of early % on you. Recovery and the lack of a projectile are generally things that can be worked around, but his lack of a fast antijuggle tool really hurts in some matchups. Note that his approach options on the ground are fairly limited, so running up and powershielding his landing aerials is a good way to mess with his spacing and open him up, though you can get tomahawk grabbed if he knows it's coming. Ike's also decently gimpable if you know what he's going to do. It's mostly a matter of spacing and mindgames because while Ike's tools are very strong he doesn't have anything that's too oppressive.
N1N
Smash Cadet
In a nutshell: No projectile, laggy moves, combo bag, and easy to edgeguard.
Prepare_Yourself
Smash Apprentice
Rango the Mercenary
The Mercenary
Ike has a number of weaknesses that are a bit more magnified than the top tiers in the game.
1) Hitlag. Anything you do can be punished, and will be punished. You are marginalizing defense with accurate hits. Even Ike's low-punish moves, such as Jab 1, can be punished. Throwing out retreat Bairs on a Captain Falcon gets you dash-grabbed, even if you autocancel. Ike has bad hitlag on nearly everything, only a couple of autocancels, and must rely on perfect spacing nearly every time.
2) Landing. The perfect example to showcase this is fighting a Mario. Despite Ike's disjoint, Mario can simply USmash him every time he tries to land. Mario's USmash hurtbox beats out any and all of Ike's landing options, to include Nair. Ike players must be creative and prepared to use Side B or go off stage and to the ledge anytime they're being juggled or fighting someone who fishes for the landing Smash.
3) Recovery. It goes without saying that Ike struggles to recover against characters like Captain Falcon. Given the function of Aether, they can pick apart when exactly you're going to use Aether and where to spike you. Characters like Charizard and Cloud can also use this to their advantage. Ike's Quick Draw loses out to larger hitboxes, such as Sheik's Fair and Donkey Kong's Bair. Both of his recoveries lose to Mario's FLUDD and Cape. It's a constant struggle to manage going low for Side B or risking an SD going low for Aether to avoid certain moves.
4) Stage advantage. Ike lacks his own good juggles on platforms. Meanwhile, Cloud and Rosalina juggle for days on platforms, forcing Ike players to pick Final Destination or another neutral stage. Ike's advantage on whichever stage is character specific, as Battlefield and Dream Land are *generally* his good stages unless fighting those characters. Then Sonic will run the train on him at FD. Managing stages becomes banning the worst and settling for the lesser of the evils.
5) Juggling. Captain Falcon, Cloud, Rosalina, and Mario can all damage Ike to high percents quickly using combos. Without a sex kick or a quick way to escape, he is at their mercy until he can either jump away, air dodge, or move to the ledge.
6) Specials. Ike's specials aren't very useful in the neutral. Eruption is an edgeguarding tool, Quick Draw and Aether are both recovery tools, and Counter starts at frame 9. Aether's main use in the neutral can be to escape a combo attempt or to get someone off of you if you're close to the ledge and they're still coming at you. Counter is incredibly slow, but can be used to punish certain recoveries, such as Cloud's, DK's, or Bowser's.
7) Smashes. DSmash is completely useless, FSmash doesn't kill as quickly as it did in Brawl, and USmash has a sourspot that's comparatively weak. Your aerials are your primary kill moves.
8) Camping. You're forced to approach characters like Sheik, who have Needle Storm. This puts you at a disadvantage as you're already big and fairly slow.
Ike is a reliable character due to his disjoints, durability, and aerial killing power. However, he has a steep learning curve to use well, and has a number of flaws that separate him from the Top 10 in the game.
1) Hitlag. Anything you do can be punished, and will be punished. You are marginalizing defense with accurate hits. Even Ike's low-punish moves, such as Jab 1, can be punished. Throwing out retreat Bairs on a Captain Falcon gets you dash-grabbed, even if you autocancel. Ike has bad hitlag on nearly everything, only a couple of autocancels, and must rely on perfect spacing nearly every time.
2) Landing. The perfect example to showcase this is fighting a Mario. Despite Ike's disjoint, Mario can simply USmash him every time he tries to land. Mario's USmash hurtbox beats out any and all of Ike's landing options, to include Nair. Ike players must be creative and prepared to use Side B or go off stage and to the ledge anytime they're being juggled or fighting someone who fishes for the landing Smash.
3) Recovery. It goes without saying that Ike struggles to recover against characters like Captain Falcon. Given the function of Aether, they can pick apart when exactly you're going to use Aether and where to spike you. Characters like Charizard and Cloud can also use this to their advantage. Ike's Quick Draw loses out to larger hitboxes, such as Sheik's Fair and Donkey Kong's Bair. Both of his recoveries lose to Mario's FLUDD and Cape. It's a constant struggle to manage going low for Side B or risking an SD going low for Aether to avoid certain moves.
4) Stage advantage. Ike lacks his own good juggles on platforms. Meanwhile, Cloud and Rosalina juggle for days on platforms, forcing Ike players to pick Final Destination or another neutral stage. Ike's advantage on whichever stage is character specific, as Battlefield and Dream Land are *generally* his good stages unless fighting those characters. Then Sonic will run the train on him at FD. Managing stages becomes banning the worst and settling for the lesser of the evils.
5) Juggling. Captain Falcon, Cloud, Rosalina, and Mario can all damage Ike to high percents quickly using combos. Without a sex kick or a quick way to escape, he is at their mercy until he can either jump away, air dodge, or move to the ledge.
6) Specials. Ike's specials aren't very useful in the neutral. Eruption is an edgeguarding tool, Quick Draw and Aether are both recovery tools, and Counter starts at frame 9. Aether's main use in the neutral can be to escape a combo attempt or to get someone off of you if you're close to the ledge and they're still coming at you. Counter is incredibly slow, but can be used to punish certain recoveries, such as Cloud's, DK's, or Bowser's.
7) Smashes. DSmash is completely useless, FSmash doesn't kill as quickly as it did in Brawl, and USmash has a sourspot that's comparatively weak. Your aerials are your primary kill moves.
8) Camping. You're forced to approach characters like Sheik, who have Needle Storm. This puts you at a disadvantage as you're already big and fairly slow.
Ike is a reliable character due to his disjoints, durability, and aerial killing power. However, he has a steep learning curve to use well, and has a number of flaws that separate him from the Top 10 in the game.
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