What are Corrin's hardest matchups?

Jiggswiggs

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#41
I would say cloud because a lot of Corrine's moves hit the opponent in the air so you can't take advantage of clouds horrible recovery the same goes for Mac but corrin winns over Mac couse he sucks
 
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#43
Not TOO bad. I can see some of the reasoning. I think it's a good idea for us to start getting these views discussed, so I'll chime in with a few of my thoughts. I'll try and keep it limited in total characters to major matchups that matter though.

+1s (for Corrin)

Rosalina
We ruin her game, without Luma she's generally got zero offensive game and we have every option to kill Luma while Rosa simply can't stop us from doing so.

Sonic
His spindash game is shut down completely by both DFS and DL. He also likes to kill off top with high a commitment string, this leads to hilariously easy counter kills. IP can punish him on most of his options on shield.

Ryu
He struggles to get in against most swordies, this is no exception. Gets heavily punished by us on some of his lag which is often safe against other cast members but become easy tippers for Corrin.

+0

Sheik
I don't think this is heavily in Sheik's favour enough to call it a +1. I do think it's slightly her way, but only due to needles. Her problems with killing regularly mean this matchup comes down to high percent on last stock. She will often take the lead but have Corrin catch up while she takes risks to try to kill.

Diddy
Without his banana this matchup changes drastically. If he keeps it well then it's in his favour, but we can pressure him well to take it.

Bayo
Her neutral isn't all it's cracked up to be. Good shield usage seems to have me not struggling too much, though occasionally they do seem to get those lucky games where they get past it just once or twice and earn ridiculous percent from doing so. I'm not too sure on it yet though.

Falcon
This is the most even matchup I've played of the better characters. Corrin and Falcon seem to go tit for tat against each other very well. Falcon can be juggled really hard which gives Corrin a lot of damage, while Corrin's speed gives Falcon damage with high pressure.

Mario
Hard. But not undoable. I was tempted to put this in -1, but it's not quite been hard enough for that in my opinion. We can outrange him to keep him out but a combination of projectile usage and high pressure inevitably lets him push through. Fortunately he is incapable of punish IP on shield so we can abuse it very heavily in the matchup.

-1s (against Corrin)

Fox
His combos are painful, we don't have the luxury of a fast enough move to break away from him. His high speed allows him to mixup his movement well and it's near impossible to predict him. He can wait for us to choose an option then easily punish and convert. I'm not sure if we even have a safe on shield option in this matchup. If I'm missing something in this matchup I would really like to hear thoughts, because everyone has a pocket Fox, there needs to be a strategy to fight him as it will be a free counterpick win for opponents otherwise.

Metaknight
Zero to deaths aren't fun, they're relatively easy for Metaknight to start up too. He can punish every option we have on shield including bair in some cases. It's a real problem. I've had positive results by staying near the edge and playing around ledge invincibility a lot. It's gimmicky though, I feel like they'll develop a counter strategy quickly.

-2

Luigi
Kills us 100% of the time offstage. Easy kills for Luigi. This is a terrifying matchup that I am not uncomfortable calling as horrible as the Ness vs Rosalina matchup. Counterpick character is a MUST. Eff everythinh abouthfsdfsdsl5
Fighting Luigi is as scary as you think because yes Luigi has the combo game but was can out space Luigi and have a better recovery (not counting (downb Luigi) or side b(corin))
 

IndigoSSB

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#44
Is Luigi really that bad of a match-up for us? I haven't had much issues with that match up yet, I've been having more trouble with Villager. Villager imo is the best at edge guarding in the game, which doesn't bode well for us since our recovery is fairly linear. Pocket makes DFS useless and it can get difficult to approach if the Villager starts playing defensively.
 
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#45
Is Luigi really that bad of a match-up for us? I haven't had much issues with that match up yet, I've been having more trouble with Villager. Villager imo is the best at edge guarding in the game, which doesn't bode well for us since our recovery is fairly linear. Pocket makes DFS useless and it can get difficult to approach if the Villager starts playing defensively.
I see where your going with but Villager can be easily edgeguarding himself because corrin has a great nair he'll be able to break the balloons plus corrin has ranged attacks
 
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Nah

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#47
Skitrel Skitrel 2 things:
1) I really hope you're right about the Sonic MU cuz I never really liked fighting Sonic as :4robinf:
2) Sheik doesn't exactly have problems killing if you ask me. If the Sheik's any good they'll know what her (safer) kill options are. People just tend to say that she has killing problems because of the very low knockback most of her moves have, so she tends to kill people at later %s than most (because for some reason on this site if you don't kill people sub-100% you're bad at killing).
 

WondrousMoose

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#48
Skitrel Skitrel 2 things:
1) I really hope you're right about the Sonic MU cuz I never really liked fighting Sonic as :4robinf:
2) Sheik doesn't exactly have problems killing if you ask me. If the Sheik's any good they'll know what her (safer) kill options are. People just tend to say that she has killing problems because of the very low knockback most of her moves have, so she tends to kill people at later %s than most (because for some reason on this site if you don't kill people sub-100% you're bad at killing).
Sheik is by no means "bad" at killing, though it is a challenge. She doesn't have consistent moves that will kill at decent percents, as her smash attacks are laggy, Vanish is easy to avoid, etc. Her best kill moves, like Uair and Bouncig Fish kill a bit later than she'd like and can be tough to land.

All that to say, Corrin is a nice bit of fresh air.
 

Skitrel

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#49
On Luigi, which everyone seems to be bringing up as "Is it that bad?".

If Luigi uses DownB to edgeguard us it's a death sentence. It takes us out of our upB 100% of the time AND he can drag us downwards with the multi hit, out of range of recovery.

The ones that have realised this so far have been completely unbeatable, it's pretty much the same problem Ness has with having his upB taken away by Rosalina, once it goes offstage it's gameover. It's not his combo game that causes the problems because he doesn't need to take us to high percents. It's simply that all he requires is a near edge throw or a decent bair/fair string to turn us into toast.

I'll defer to the Sheik mains on Sheik's killing capability. I've just always viewed it as them often whiffing 5-6 attempts to kill when they need it which is fair to say "bad" when compared to other characters. But I am perhaps being judgemental. I think it's fair to say it's the part of her game that she struggles with the most though.

Don't get me wrong on Sonic... It's still Sonic. He's still lightning fast and that's still a problem just as it is for everyone in the cast. But his core gameplay suffers vs good options we have, he can be heavily out spaced with fair/nair combos, and if he's above us then his poor aerial mobility really suffers vs uair. You DO need to play him intelligently, but when done so I'm pretty sure it favours Corrin.
 
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Zephil

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#50
I will have to see or experience it because I still cant believe the matchup to be that bad.

You may be right about the down B but also I feel I have to be very low to be gimped by down B because of Luigi is trying to edge guard us, we have fair, nair, and uair crazy hitboxes to stop him, and also we have counter.
 

Skitrel

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#52
I agree. Also particularly because the "competitive play and tier list" thread is redundantly going over the same stuff.

Summoning @M@v and @Raziek

Ideally after another week or two someone can start a serious thread that doesn't just talk generally but is organised and goes into specific matchup discussion on a weekly basis while updating the OP with results of the discussions like many other boards.
 
D

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#53
After playing Corrin in a number of tourneys now, (coming first in 2 weeklys most noteably), I'll share some of my matchup thoughts, as I am trying to be the best Corrin in Ontario atm.

Marth/Lucina: is an unfavorable matchup due to their quick counters blocking our recovery with ease, and I found that many times Marths fair beat out my Dragon Lunge, and Marth's speed allows him to quickly come after us after using a Dragon Fang Shot. That being said though, we still have better spacing,better counter, and better tools in general like a projectile, so it's still very doable.
I would say it's like a 45:55 for marth.

Outside of marth/lucina, sheik, diddy kong, pikachu, and mario, are def some of the harder ones to overcome.
 
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Zephil

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#55
PIKACHU is super hard, surprised nobody's mentioned that yet.
I think most of us agree that it is one of Corrin's worst matchups.

We need to start already discussing specific matchups. We need the thread's name change and make a voting to see which one to discuss first.
 

IndigoSSB

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#57
Somebody did try to make a match-up thread, but it was locked because he jumped the gun and made the thread the second Corrin was released. So, I don't know if the mods are going to unlock that thread or convert this thread into the match-up thread.

I wanted to start an organized thread where we discuss match-ups in rotation, but I wasn't sure if the mods were planning on reviving the already existing one :/
 

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#58
Somebody did try to make a match-up thread, but it was locked because he jumped the gun and made the thread the second Corrin was released. So, I don't know if the mods are going to unlock that thread or convert this thread into the match-up thread.

I wanted to start an organized thread where we discuss match-ups in rotation, but I wasn't sure if the mods were planning on reviving the already existing one :/
Eh, that was made by that Zard Lover guy who just comes in here and calls us stupid. One of the mods will probably create a dedicated matchup thread when the time comes.
 

MockRock

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#59
In my experience, characters that can constantly throw out little projectiles (Toon Link, Mario, Diddy, Sheik...) can give Corrin a rough time, because they completely screw up Dragon Lunge and Dragon Fang Shot, which are some of Corrin's best moves. Cloud also seems kind of rough, because he's basically playing our game with more efficient tools.
 

MockRock

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#61
Anyone else feel like :4link: could be a potential nuisance?
Actually, I think that Corrin is quite good against Link. Link's projectiles aren't all that spammable, which is what really shuts down Corrin's neutral, and we outrange him. The fact that most of his moves hit hard means that Counter is also really dangerous. I think Link's best asset in this matchup may actually be his tether. In the air, it gives him a spacing tool that viably competes with ours, and I've been shield grabbed straight out of a Dragon Lunge, which most characters can only do if you space it poorly. What makes you think that Link is a threat?
 

| F. |

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#62
Actually, I think that Corrin is quite good against Link. Link's projectiles aren't all that spammable, which is what really shuts down Corrin's neutral, and we outrange him. The fact that most of his moves hit hard means that Counter is also really dangerous. I think Link's best asset in this matchup may actually be his tether. In the air, it gives him a spacing tool that viably competes with ours, and I've been shield grabbed straight out of a Dragon Lunge, which most characters can only do if you space it poorly. What makes you think that Link is a threat?
Link highly suffers in CQC so that's our biggest strength in this MU. What I feel like what makes Link a threat is his grab. It's long, has deceptively low lag and down throw combos into up tilt, up smash, up air or fair. Up throw is also a kill throw. He can also edgeguard our recovery with bombs, dair or walkoff fair, the latter particularly being dangerous after it got recently buffed.
 
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Skitrel

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#63
Good Link's are hard. Good use of Zair and bombs is a wall that Corrin struggles getting through.

With that said, Link becomes juggle food once you get inside that wall. He doesn't have the mobility or options to escape a juggle, once he goes up he should never come down if you're using uair>nair frametraps correctly. He doesn't have the aerial speed to stop Corrin's antiair and he doesn't have a move that can challenge her aerial disjoints.
 
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D

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#65
Link's Dair is a massive, long-lasting disjoint, is that not enough to challenge some of Corrin's stuff?

....would probably be a good idea to summon @The Soulless One for this
Given Corrin's disjointed range, and the fact that Link's Dair isn't Cloud's, my best guess is that Link's Dair would usually trade with Corrin's Uair (more specifically, Corrin's Uair isn't Link's Uair, which outright beats Link's Dair), Corrin's U-Smash has the range and disjoint to beat it, and Corrin's U-tilt is kind of wonky hitbox-wise (vertically) so I wouldn't be surprised if Dair were to trade with that as well.

That said, because Dair is an extreme frame commitment (64 frames) and because it is telegraphed fairly well it would be unwise for Link to fall down with it all the time since Corrin can counter on reaction and kill stupid early because of Dair's base damage/knockback for late hits.

So really the only thing that is stopping Link from coming down with Dair (assuming he is in the vertical range where it will autocancel, since landing Dair into ground is dumb) is fear of being countered, but, that said, Link has the fastest fastfall speed increase in the game (90% speed increase), so it wouldn't be too hard for him to jump away and fast fall back down without having to resort to Dair to cover himself. In addition, his ridiculous fastfall speed makes it easier for him to fastfall airdodge through Corrin's aerials since Corrin's aerials don't have long-lasting hitboxes which would be good for frame traps (Corrin's best is his Nair, which is active for 13 frames (frames 6-19 specifically) according to KuroganeHammer, while Link's Airdodge has 25 frames of intangibility (frames 3-28 specifically). So for Corrin to frametrap Link's airdodge he'd have to Nair -> FF and hope that Link mistimes the airdodge. (Yes, fastfall airdodging isn't always the best option for coming down since you can be put in airdodge landing lag if you're close enough to the stage, but the option does exist). Additionally, Link can very easily DJ -> Bomb pull and then throw that below him to cover himself and follow it down back to the stage, which combined with his aforementioned fall speed can make it pretty simple for him to come back down to the ground either just by fastfalling, fastfall airdodging, or fastfalling and using Dair or another aerial (usually Nair) (in the case of an aerial he may not have to fastfall after the aerial). In this case the only thing Corrin can do is either instant throw the bomb back up at Link, space an aerial to deal with the bomb while also trying to hit Link (since Corrin does have the disjointed range to destroy bombs without taking damage, but it requires tipper spacing), jump around the bomb and then try to hit Link as he is falling behind it, or Counter.

So juggling Link isn't incredibly easy if he has the time and space to pull a bomb before coming back down (obviously if he's close enough to the stage you can jump up and hit him while he's trying to pull a bomb, but that's a different case).

---------------------------

In regards to non-juggle situations, AKA neutral or just on-stage play, Corrin doesn't really care about Link's camp except for bombs since he can freely Nair or Fair through Arrows and the Boomerang, as mentioned he can do the same with bombs but he has to space the aerials carefully.

That said, Link has other means of applying pressure with bombs aside from simply pelting Corrin with them since he can bombslide into Corrin instead of just standing back and throwing them, which can get Corrin grabbed if he's just short hopping and throwing out aerials since Link's grab range is ridiculous.

As mentioned, Link can also poke the hell out of Corrin with SH Zair, he seems to be around the height where Link can do so fairly easily, and of course Link can Zair Corrin right out of DL Instant Pin.

In addition, Link basically doesn't care for DFS unless you SH and fire it above the Hylian shield (at which point you probably won't be able to get enough of a charge while staying at that height to make it a serious threat in terms of speed and range), since he can freely Hylian Shield Walk through it whenever, clank it with any of his projectiles (which means he can cancel with bombs while bomb sliding), and at lower charge levels straight-up beat DFS with bombs. Given the size of fully-charged DFS I also wouldn't be surprised if Link could just drop bombs on the stage and have the bombs still negate DFS (which is something he can do with other large chargeable projectiles link Samus's Charge Shot).

So tl;dr don't expect to win the camp game against him, he can just keep walking forward and Corrin doesn't have the mobility to play keep-away for the entire match like some other characters.

As an additional note Corrin's Nair does trade with Link's U-Smash, so you don't really have to worry about getting caught by it too much while landing (usually).

And yes, Link does struggle with CQC, that said, Corrin doesn't have the mobility to suffocate him and exploit this weakness to the extent that characters like Fox, Sheik, and ZSS can.

In regards to offstage, Link struggles to come back against Corrin, either without getting gimped or at least taking some damage (usually the latter though, unless Corrin can jump out with Bair, since all of other Corrin's aerials don't have gimp trajectories, although tipper DL will ruin offstage Link) because of Corrin's great aerial disjointed range of course (Corrin can walk off and say no to the Zair tether whenever he wants). In regards to Link edgeguarding Corrin, as mentioned Fair and bombs can be problematic, bombs more so because they will detonate on Corrin and lift him into a possible follow-up aerial from Link, while Fair could have a hard time challenging DA because of the hitbox size of DA. Dair may also be able to trade, but that would be for Link to give damage more than anything since it has an upwards trajectory outside of the meteor frames.

Corrin should also be wary of tether trumping, it gives Link a guaranteed aerial on the trump (because FAF from the ledge goes from 23 -> 7 when snapping to the ledge with a tether as opposed to regularly grabbing the ledge) which means either a Bair or (what should be, assuming Corrin's trump animation doesn't put him in a weird place) meteor Dair if Link has his timing right.

Link can and will annoy the hell out of you, but because of the slow speed of his kill options and his lack of consistent kill setups (bomb trajectories are inconsistent and his mobility is low, so bomb-confirms are situational), he shouldn't be able to kill you very easily unless you're being stupid, but if he does catch with something of his that is a strong kill option, you will die early (Fair, Ftilt, any of his Smash Attacks (especially Fsmash)). Uair could be added to this list because it is a true frame trap and hits pretty hard, although I omit U-tilt and U-Throw since those don't kill until later percents (particularly the latter).

As one last note, Corrin isn't Robin, so if you hit Link's shield with an aerial you are pretty open to a free shield grab regardless of your spacing, again because Link's grab range is huge.

Note that I have yet to play this MU at a high level so this is all just theory, but I think it helps to form a basic perception of the MU regardless.
 
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Connor AC3

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#67
Recently picked Corrin for fun, but I have accidentally fallen in love with her - spacing tools, great combo game, kill power and unique play-style. Not to mention she is a total babe. So far the hardest matchup I've experienced is Zero Suit. Granted I'm still relatively new with the character but it just feels like a good ZSS can really break through Corrin's walls. Any tips from more experienced Corrin players on how to deal with this MU?
 

PK Gaming

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#68
Recently picked Corrin for fun, but I have accidentally fallen in love with her - spacing tools, great combo game, kill power and unique play-style. Not to mention she is a total babe. So far the hardest matchup I've experienced is Zero Suit. Granted I'm still relatively new with the character but it just feels like a good ZSS can really break through Corrin's walls. Any tips from more experienced Corrin players on how to deal with this MU?
Zero Suit Samus is a tricky character. Unfortunately there isn't much footage of this matchup being played at high level, and I don't have much experience with her myself. My gut tells me you don't want to play ultra defensively in that matchup since ZSS is good at weaving in and whiff punishing. Are you maximizing your damage via down tilt / aerial strings? Getting the % lead and especially that first kill is incredibly important, since ZSS can and will just run away if she gets the lead.

In any case, i'll try and ask around for tips in that particular matchup. Hello and welcome to the Corrin army btw. Hope you enjoy your stay~

EDIT: Asked NickRiddle and he confirmed that it's a losing match up for us. You basically just want to grind this out, and definitely get good at dealing with flip kick.
 
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TimidKitsune129

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#69
I've never seen the match-up on stream before, so it's hard to say. I know that in Umebura 22, YOC was the one who eliminated Choco in Loser's using Corrin. The match wasn't streamed, sadly.

Choco is considered the best Zero Suit Samus in Japan IIRC.

More data will be necessary to determine how well the match-up is though.

Here's the bracket:
http://challonge.com/Umebura22T
 
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gridatttack

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#70
I find the ZSS MU to be even, perhaps 55:45 in our favor since we can punish hard her missed grab. But the thing is, you have to be on point, otherwise say goodbye to your stock. You can combo her at low percents relative easy. Other than that, watch out for the tether grab and the Bair spacing, but if you play carefully and don't get Up B or paralyzed, you can win.

As for our hardest MU, I believe Diddy is the worst, with Sheik in second.

Sonic would come third, and maybe fourth would be bayonetta (Due to the Annoying lingering Nair and Uair).
 

Kopaka355

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#71
What about Cloud? I have a lot of trouble going against him mainly because his neutral air destroy our up B. Landing can also be sometimes a pain
 

Kopaka355

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#72
I find the ZSS MU to be even, perhaps 55:45 in our favor since we can punish hard her missed grab. But the thing is, you have to be on point, otherwise say goodbye to your stock. You can combo her at low percents relative easy. Other than that, watch out for the tether grab and the Bair spacing, but if you play carefully and don't get Up B or paralyzed, you can win.

As for our hardest MU, I believe Diddy is the worst, with Sheik in second.

Sonic would come third, and maybe fourth would be bayonetta (Due to the Annoying lingering Nair and Uair).
I disagree about sonic because like the other people said above, sonic's main approach and neutral option is spin dash which we can beat out with side and neatral b or even an nair or fair which will lead to othe attackes
 
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#73
Mostly theorycraft but as a player of :4megaman: and Corrin, I believe he should have the tools to take out Corrin: Mega Man can bully most characters lacking mobility (except Rosalina), and Corrin's subpar air speed and terrible run speed should give him a pretty hard time getting past lemons effectively and force him to go in. MM is essentially the king of Mid-Ranged Combat and Corrin wants to play at a similar range most of the time, but with his slightly better run speed and vastly superior air speed + air acceleration, can outrun and outspace Corrin and best him at his own game with smart lemoning and use of aerials (mainly Bair and Uair): lemons be neutralize DFS (even if fully charged). He can also harass him offstage pretty well due to his much weaker air speed, and I don't believe he can really do as much to challenge our recovery offstage.

Instant Pin is annoying though and he does have Nair and Fsmash to beat some of Mega's projectiles. Corr's damage output and combo game are a level above Mega Man's too, but luckily, I think we have the weight to take it all and live for awhile.

Again, I've yet to experience this enough times from either side but I do see him being a threat nonetheless and a potential -1 for Corrin. Or at the very least, even at worst for MM.
 

Hydde

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#74
Surprised no one have mentioned Yoshi.

Dat dinosaur is troublematic as hell because of his mobility , aerials, disjoints , eggs...grab release pummel...damn he is a nightmare
 

Absol

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#75
Surprised no one have mentioned Yoshi.

Dat dinosaur is troublematic as hell because of his mobility , aerials, disjoints , eggs...grab release pummel...damn he is a nightmare
Yoshi cannot jump against corrin like at all. Corrin destroys yoshi. Who cares about his disjoints when your Nair beats every one of his aerials
 

Laken64

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#76
The only thing that you have to worry about is egg release camping at the ledge, the fact that yoshi has a faster jab and better edge guarding with eggs and the occasional brave drop off forward air, other than that, you outrange it with all your aerials, getting grabbed by it in general isn't really a big deal (although he could do up throw to up air Idk) it's egg roll attack can be beaten by DFS, and yoshi bomb is basically a death sentence when countered.

It's careful spacing that wins this MU be careful of Yoshi's command grab near the ledge and your good to go :D

Also I believe one hard MU for Corrin is Ryu, with our above average falling speed we can be comboed for days, though we can do the same to him. FA plays a huge part in the MU, getting him out of our basic combos and helping him get in a bit easier than other characters due to Corrin's lack of multi hitting moves other than DA and F-smash's charging on startup. Corrin does have the advantage in edge guarding and aerials as well as IP (btw can Ryu FA through the pin?) Anyways what do you guys think?
 

Nah

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#77
Yoshi's not a bad MU so much as it's an annoying one. ****** weaves through the air like no one's business

But he has disjoints? this is news to me
 

gridatttack

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#79
Yeah, we can keep the dino at bay in the air.

Beware his ground moves like Jab which has pretty good range and speed and the dash attack.

Other moves noteworthy is his ever annoying Fair, but it's sort of predictable.

Zoning yoshi patiently should be the key. Punish any approach attack. Also don't try to stay close on Yoshi on shield, since he has that annoying Down B which is almost a guaranteed shield break.
 
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OceloT42

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#80
I've asked this in the general q and a thread but I'd like a solid explanation from here as well.
What about King Dedede?
I almost always lose against him. For me all other matchups go pretty fine, but this guy...
 
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