What are Corrin's hardest matchups?

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#2
:4diddy:, :4luigi: and :4mario: stand out to be looking bad for Corrin, not surprising considering they're all high tier characters (bar Luigi). They're faster than us, juggle us hard, and don't really give a **** about Dragon Fang Shot and can edgeguard us relatively well. You can argue that we keep the plumbers out with our disjoints, but they can so seriously nasty stuff in CQC thanks to their superior frame data. Diddy is also a nuisance thanks to the banana granting him so much stage control and can camp us out with Peanuts.

:4sheik: is also obviously an MU where Corrin loses pretty noticeably. She's the hardest matchup for every character in the game, so yeah.
 
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Skitrel

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#4
:4sheik: is also obviously an MU where Corrin loses pretty noticeably. She's the hardest matchup for every character in the game, so yeah.
There's disagreement there. There's a few characters with arguably even matchups, though disputed and antagonistic in discussion, while having worse matchups with other characters. Yoshi is one such polarising Sheik matchup, I fundamentally believe it's even while Diddy is significantly worse (almost always a loss) for Yoshi.

As for Corrin. She suffers against Mario currently. I don't agree with the Luigi issues as he can't get inside us very well.

I suspect ZSS will be troublesome when people learn the matchup as we're going to give her some easy grabs with lack of safe on shield options.

I haven't seen anything particularly concerning otherwise. Fox might be tough for us too, but I need to face some higher level foxes to make a better judgement call.

Diddy isn't a problem when he has no banana. Our SideB and neutralB are enough neutral game so we can just take it and fight with those two moves alone, without his banana he's relegated to spacing gameplay and we 100% win that.
 
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Raziek

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#5
Diddy isn't a problem when he has no banana. Our SideB and neutralB are enough neutral game so we can just take it and fight with those two moves alone, without his banana he's relegated to spacing gameplay and we 100% win that.
I don't know if I've ever seen something more incorrect in my entire life, lol.

In no universe can you fight Diddy with only those 2 moves. He can punish Instant Pin with Banana OoS and his Fair destroys us just like every other sword character.
 

Kodystri

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#6
:4diddy:, :4luigi: and :4mario: stand out to be looking bad for Corrin, not surprising considering they're all high tier characters (bar Luigi). They're faster than us, juggle us hard, and don't really give a **** about Dragon Fang Shot and can edgeguard us relatively well. You can argue that we keep the plumbers out with our disjoints, but they can so seriously nasty stuff in CQC thanks to their superior frame data. Diddy is also a nuisance thanks to the banana granting him so much stage control and can camp us out with Peanuts.

:4sheik: is also obviously an MU where Corrin loses pretty noticeably. She's the hardest matchup for every character in the game, so yeah.

From my personal experience, I have to disagree on Mario I have notably an easier time vs Mario compared to my Ness. I have also played several Marios(Offline and Online) and I do pretty well. Mario's lack of range really hurts him in this MU. Sure we can't Dragon Fang Shot as effectively against him, but our Range really does give Mario a hard time.

As for Sheik, I don't think we exactly "lose". Sheik Fair does outrange ours unfortunately, but if played right, it is pretty hard to get a grab to 50/50 on us. When I am avoiding to get grabbed, I don't get grabbed at all. With my other characters, i do get grabbed on occasion, but it is notably much easier to not get grabbed as Corrin because Fair and Nair are great spacing tools and fairly safe on shield. Dragon Lunge is great for mind games and Dragon Fang Shot is good if you are far away(though she will punish with needles after shielding DFS, so be careful), We do have trouble offstage and we can't really effectively edgeguard her besides two framing her recovery.

From the Sheiks I played, I will say its 45:55 in Sheiks favor. Much better than when I played Ness vs Sheik(Though I am not FOW lol).

Diddy Kong and Luigi I can't say anything because A. Don't have enough MU experience or B. Haven't played a good player yet.


TBH, I don't think Corrin doesn't lose any MUs Hard at all. She is very footsies orientated and mix up heavy and abusing her range. And she has good enough frame data to counteract some potential bad MUs.
 

Timbermike

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#7
With Corrin's recovery being very predictable, characters that can gimp give me a really tough time. Noticibly Ness, if he can get a PK fire off stage, or dthrow to double fair you off stage- both these things give you a hard time.

MK and Fox are also tough. Corrin is the perfect weight for Fox to utilt you for days. MK also has an easy time doing the ladder vs Corrin
 

Skitrel

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#8
I don't know if I've ever seen something more incorrect in my entire life, lol.

In no universe can you fight Diddy with only those 2 moves. He can punish Instant Pin with Banana OoS and his Fair destroys us just like every other sword character.
No need to speak in absolutes, it comes across a bit dismissive and rude. You have an opinion, others have opinions, in no universe is anything about a week old character objective. Keep it friendly.

YOU have the banana, you most certainly can not be punished out of shield by a banana throw when the banana is in your hand. Diddy's fair is also out of range to punish IP properly spaced for tips at his feet. As for his fair vs Swordies, I'm not sure I agree at all with your interpretation of that. Our fair is effective equal in range to Sheik's fair but with a large disjoint, IP against landings is significantly safer and longer range though.

It only takes a tiny amount of shield damage for IP to become a shield-poking monstrosity, it hits through shield when aimed at opponent's feet constantly even with most of their shield still present. People are going to have to learn to tilt shield down constantly in the Corrin matchup.

You're judging this one way too quickly.
 
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Fex13

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#9
i dont like it when people say, DFS is useless against character x...
DFS is always useful, even against characters with refelctor, cape or something like that. a middle ranged mindgamed( for example wavebounced) DFS while the opponent is at 85% or higher is gg if he isnear the ledge... tipper DL and you just had an easy kill confirm. you cant just stand there, shoot, and expect it to hit. DFS must be used very intelligently. and if you do, your opponent will fall for it eventually.

as for match ups...at the moment i think fox is corrin's hardest match up, while mario and meta knight are in corrin's favor (like 55:45/ 60:40 for both) as long as you avoid getting gimped or dash attacked by metaknight and learn to recover against mario. mario really isnt faster than us and our range really gives him tremendous trouble, BECAUSE he isnt that fast and cant come to us easily. as for meta knight, we outrange him pretty hard as well. he is a little bit faster than us, but if you dont overextend and stay safe on shield with good spacing, i love playing against meta knight because it fells easy.
as of right now, corrin doesnt seem to have a terrible match up, cause he/she is just a very solid character overall. for me, fox is probably the worst at the moment and i would put it at 60:40/65:35 in fox' favor. utilt juggles us for days and he is one of the fastest characters in the game.
 
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Deleted member 189823

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#10
As far as I've played, I'll have to say Sonic. And that's only because of personal thing, probably. Sonic is way too mobile and spends his entire time poking at your shield and staying rather safe. I *think* we can sometimes punish his Spindash with N-Air or something like that, but it was rather rare. You can't combo him all that much either, as he can break out of strings by Up-B'ing and simply resetting back to neutral (which is basically his advantage, when we can't even catch him).

Bayonetta might be a thing for us, but I only really faced one good Bayonetta that knew the super early kill combo and I was simply testing grounds. I heard her frame data is rather poor, so I don't think it's as free as I made it seem at that moment.

Contrary to what others have said, I actually think we have some sort of advtange against characters like Mario, Luigi and Diddy Kong. Our range really is a thing. They can get combos in, but it isn't that huge of a deal thanks to our weight class/floatiness. Since we can't really approach in the first place and Grabs are a thing, it's actually easier to net these on characters like Mario and Luigi that don't have super range to wall us out and rely so much on baiting that exact moment. Despite us not having the best "CQC" game, I actually feel rather comfterble at said range because they saved us the burden of having to approach, and this is where we can either get some Grabs in or bait in some sort of reaction to get combos in, like D-Tilt > Profit.
 
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Maraphy

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#11
As for Sheik, I don't think we exactly "lose". Sheik Fair does outrange ours unfortunately, but if played right, it is pretty hard to get a grab to 50/50 on us. When I am avoiding to get grabbed, I don't get grabbed at all. With my other characters, i do get grabbed on occasion, but it is notably much easier to not get grabbed as Corrin because Fair and Nair are great spacing tools and fairly safe on shield. Dragon Lunge is great for mind games and Dragon Fang Shot is good if you are far away(though she will punish with needles after shielding DFS, so be careful), We do have trouble offstage and we can't really effectively edgeguard her besides two framing her recovery.

From the Sheiks I played, I will say its 45:55 in Sheiks favor. Much better than when I played Ness vs Sheik(Though I am not FOW lol).
I agree with this. I almost exclusively mained Palutena before Corrin came out, and I fought a few decent Sheiks lately (who seemed like they've gotten some Corrin MU experience in, considering Corrins were abundant on FG last week) and I found it notably more even. She still has the advantage, I think, but it's not a huge one imo and I think Corrin's a viable choice against a Sheik.
 

Fex13

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#14
As far as I've played, I'll have to say Sonic. And that's only because of personal thing, probably. Sonic is way too mobile and spends his entire time poking at your shield and staying rather safe. I *think* we can sometimes punish his Spindash with N-Air or something like that, but it was rather rare. You can't combo him all that much either, as he can break out of strings by Up-B'ing and simply resetting back to neutral (which is basically his advantage, when we can't even catch him).

Bayonetta might be a thing for us, but I only really faced one good Bayonetta that knew the super early kill combo and I was simply testing grounds. I heard her frame data is rather poor, so I don't think it's as free as I made it seem at that moment.

Contrary to what others have said, I actually think we have some sort of advtange against characters like Mario, Luigi and Diddy Kong. Our range really is a thing. They can get combos in, but it isn't that huge of a deal thanks to our weight class/floatiness. Since we can't really approach in the first place and Grabs are a thing, it's actually easier to net these on characters like Mario and Luigi that don't have super range to wall us out and rely so much on baiting that exact moment. Despite us not having the best "CQC" game, I actually feel rather comfterble at said range because they saved us the burden of having to approach, and this is where we can either get some Grabs in or bait in some sort of reaction to get combos in, like D-Tilt > Profit.
one thing about our approaching... since we have so much space control and really are able to threaten space and make the opponent have to respect it, i found that we force them to shield even if we are still not even close to them and that can lead into very nice grab/tomahawk options A LOT. i never played a character where tomahawken has worked so well as with corrin, since eveyone is afraid of that damn lance that is goin to come out so fast...that being sad, im sure that mario and luigi are in our favor for those exact reasons. like 55/45 or even 60/40. diddy kong on the other hand can be difficult due to the banana and his overall mobility, but still managable.
 
D

Deleted member 189823

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#15
Holy ****, dude. I haven't Tomohawk'd ANYWHERE as much ever since I started using Corrin. Hell, I hardly ever (evereverever) even used that option, because I never really had to (or never recognized it as a great option). With Corrin, it's pretty much incorporated into my overall gameplan. Thing is, I seemed to have struggled with this against characters with similiarly-ranged options like in Corrin dittos (hitboxes everywhere, it's a ****ing mess if both of you want to be aggresive) and characters that can challenge us in the air by sheer speed (Fox). I think it was pretty much the only way to actually get in on Sheik, since our aerial approaches are a big free "GRAB ME" sign. Thing is, our Tomohawk isn't just a Tomohawk. It means getting the opponent into the air, aka, where our one major pro comes in. And, yeah, I don't think I've conciously realized about this until someone else mentioned it. Ever since I use Corrin, there's a lot more Shielding (and Tomohawking, to counteract it) involved. Because of that, killing has been harder than it should be. But condition an opponent to Shield enough, and they might just start making those fundamental mistakes we need for the kill (Jumping, Rolling and Spotdodging).
 
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SirReichSR

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#16
I found Bayonetta to be a rather hard matchup, it might be too early to say anything big about it but Bayonettas that can camp your attempts to approach with her neutral b make it very hard. Her side b is one of her best combo starters and it can go right through your attempts to space her with fair and nair leading to massive damage against you. Her down air is also a very hard tool to deal with since it can easily spike you when you try to recover, it's not even a very risky option for Bayonetta to do so since she can still recover back to the stage after doing so.

Anyone else have trouble with Bayonetta?
 

Rioku

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#18
I'll have to heavily disagree on :4mario: being a bad MU. DFS is actually pretty amazing against Mario like other characters so long as you don't charge it. Uncharged DFS doesn't give him any time to react and at high% the stun is more than long enough to get a side b tip kill confirm. Fireballs aren't unworkable either. DL kick beats fireballs and that thing comes out so fast after the pin that you will catch any fireballing Mario. Just do not immediately go for the kick and don't be afraid to stay empty pinned all the way till the cancel or jump out. While pinned well over half the stage is in your potential threat range and Corrin capitalizes on the mind games that creates. Cape is not an MU decider and is easy to work around with pretty much everything we have. The only thing I don't like about this MU is how Mario owns platform stages so well. I find Dreamland and Battlefield as my best Corrin stages and Marios are generally pretty great on those stages due to the threat of extended up air combos.

I also find :4sheik: pretty even just because of how well we can keep her out. But that might just be a me thing.

I actually really don't like :4robinf: mostly due to how their projectiles work. I'm not sure if I'd call it a bad MU, but Robin definitely has the tools to keep us out since arc thunder covers so much ground and arc fire walls are a thing. It makes approaching hard more so than with the other characters I play. Similarly I find both :4link: and :4tlink: hard to work around for their walls of projectiles. But a lot of that comes from me struggling against projectiles in general I think.
 

TheArcfire

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#19
Greninja gives me a hard time with his up b. His up b makes Corrin's recovery even worse seeing how its already not too great. I don't like pikachu either seeing of how short he is and how he can juggle easily with up airs
 
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#20
As a Mario main...Corrin is...weird for me. Ofcourse I'll still need experience, but as far as combat goes, It is completely about momentum imo. Corrin relies on getting one hit in and then being able to stack on a ton of damage, just like Mario. Although Corrin has a lot of range over Mario, Mario is still fast and has the tools to get in like Fireballs, RAR Bair and Nair. I feel like each of them could easily gimp each other, with Mario having a harder time because of the hitboxes of Corrin's upb.

You know what, I'm not sure. I feel it's a possibility Corrin could have a slight positive matchup against Mario. It's a misconception that Mario completely loses to large disjoints though. Corrin I think is one of the best "swordsman" characters to go against Mario. I can't wait to see Corrin develop even further. I will say though, that RAR bair poking and spacing can be extremely hard for Mario to get past. It's quick, strong, autocancels and has an enormous amount of range considering it can also kill with all that amazingness attached to it. Corrin's bair is so amazing for spacing.
 
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Garde Noir

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#21
idk, I kinda think that Corrin has issues with defensive zoner types like :4villager: or :4greninja: (not :rosalina: though)

Though I'm probably the only who thinks that.
I practice with a Villager main, and the only hard part is beating out Ledge Camping. Remember that Charge Shot cancels Lloid, as well as lunging, Fair beats out Slingshots, Nothing beats Turnips unless you get only the tip on your upair, and if you get hit by the tree, the combination is Start, L+R+A+START. Dragon Lunge is so good in this matchup, as it jumps over Lloids, and is the right angle to tipper most of the time. F-smash also goes through Lloids that have started moving, and Villager is still clapping his dumb hands together long enough to hit. When offstage, just be wary of walljump slingshots. Play the patient game, and remember that counter hits the sides too. If you want, you can bait the greed too by throwing out a fully charged stun shot, and he'll try and pocket. Pocket has invincibility frames, but also means he can't grab ledge, and is going to be a little lower than would like, which puts you in a longer advantage to approach offstage.

I'm gonna be that guy and say it :4cloud:. This guy gives me trouble. Now I'm not a whiner who thinks he's OP, but even after I tried to secondary him, I have to say he's deceptively fast on the receiving end. Sure, he doesn't quite have the range that we do, but he's really strong, and his strings are stupid powerful.
I'm also still convinced, as I was when I played Cloud, Robin, and even this character that this dumb faced guy :4shulk: was made to battle sword characters. The Monado is so strong, Speed gives so many neutral options, and Buster racks up percent so quickly that falling into disadvantage happens faster than the end lag of Fair. A good Shulk (get off For Glory, you ain't feeling it there) who can consistently Nair and Fair cancel gains range on Corrin and the lack of frame advantage on the move is a benefit, as it lasts so much longer than our reciprocal move. Seriously, this guy may do horribly against anyone using their fist, projectiles, or magic (or Eggs, which is a bit of all of them) but slap a sword in their hand and suddenly there are Monado Visions so good Riki could have killed anyone who held a stick as a child.
 

Skitrel

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#22
I practice with a Villager main, and the only hard part is beating out Ledge Camping. Remember that Charge Shot cancels Lloid, as well as lunging, Fair beats out Slingshots, Nothing beats Turnips unless you get only the tip on your upair, and if you get hit by the tree, the combination is Start, L+R+A+START. Dragon Lunge is so good in this matchup, as it jumps over Lloids, and is the right angle to tipper most of the time. F-smash also goes through Lloids that have started moving, and Villager is still clapping his dumb hands together long enough to hit. When offstage, just be wary of walljump slingshots. Play the patient game, and remember that counter hits the sides too. If you want, you can bait the greed too by throwing out a fully charged stun shot, and he'll try and pocket. Pocket has invincibility frames, but also means he can't grab ledge, and is going to be a little lower than would like, which puts you in a longer advantage to approach offstage.
Just to add a missing part to this, not only does fsmash break Lloids but aerial lunge also. If you ever find yourself in a position where you're going to land on ground in front of a lloid it's typically the correct angle to throw out an aerial lunge to break it. Fair also doesn't care at all about them and will happily go straight through a lloid and continue onwards to hit the Villager.

The only particularly irritating part of this matchup is getting through Villagers fair/bair, all his other tools don't really cause Corrin much trouble. Villagers tend to put themselves in a very dangerous position against Corrin by retreating to the stage edge consistently, in this position it is only a matter of time before their ledge option eats a tipper.

Cloud suffers a bit when making shield hits. Unfortunately for him IP makes a lot of his attacks on shield that are typically safe, unsafe. It's got some good range to it. Clouds mostly either recover high or low, high recoveries suffer from getting tippers with an jumping dragon lunge. Low recoveries using upB have no ledge snap that gives us a near guaranteed fsmash tipper. Cloud's neutral gameplay IS dangerous though, he's got safer options and a projectile that forces us to approach putting us in our least favourite position.
 
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#23
Just to add a missing part to this, not only does fsmash break Lloids but aerial lunge also. If you ever find yourself in a position where you're going to land on ground in front of a lloid it's typically the correct angle to throw out an aerial lunge to break it. Fair also doesn't care at all about them and will happily go straight through a lloid and continue onwards to hit the Villager.

The only particularly irritating part of this matchup is getting through Villagers fair/bair, all his other tools don't really cause Corrin much trouble. Villagers tend to put themselves in a very dangerous position against Corrin by retreating to the stage edge consistently, in this position it is only a matter of time before their ledge option eats a tipper.

Cloud suffers a bit when making shield hits. Unfortunately for him IP makes a lot of his attacks on shield that are typically safe, unsafe. It's got some good range to it. Clouds mostly either recover high or low, high recoveries suffer from getting tippers with an jumping dragon lunge. Low recoveries using upB have no ledge snap that gives us a near guaranteed fsmash tipper. Cloud's neutral gameplay IS dangerous though, he's got safer options and a projectile that forces us to approach putting us in our least favourite position.
I can attest to you say about Cloud, I have only played one good Corrin, but from what I could gather, I barely managed to win against him as Ike, but when I used Cloud, I was easily able to put him in an unfavorable position but I had to get very creative off stage to avoid getting edgeguarding because that fsmash range is ridiculous.
 

Nah

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#24
I practice with a Villager main, and the only hard part is beating out Ledge Camping. Remember that Charge Shot cancels Lloid, as well as lunging, Fair beats out Slingshots, Nothing beats Turnips unless you get only the tip on your upair, and if you get hit by the tree, the combination is Start, L+R+A+START. Dragon Lunge is so good in this matchup, as it jumps over Lloids, and is the right angle to tipper most of the time. F-smash also goes through Lloids that have started moving, and Villager is still clapping his dumb hands together long enough to hit. When offstage, just be wary of walljump slingshots. Play the patient game, and remember that counter hits the sides too. If you want, you can bait the greed too by throwing out a fully charged stun shot, and he'll try and pocket. Pocket has invincibility frames, but also means he can't grab ledge, and is going to be a little lower than would like, which puts you in a longer advantage to approach offstage.
Oh **** the DL hop goes over Lloid? That sounds like it'll help a lot. Does Nair also work for beating slingshot? I kinda doubt I can time Fair right to swat those away.
 

| F. |

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#25
It's not a terrible matchup by any means, but I'd say:4myfriends: beats us. (Don't mind the Ike head in my postbit, I still love you guys.)

He does have to respect Corrin's tippers, Counter Surge, and not get caught in utilt/fair/uair strings, but otherwise Ike has the advantage. He has much higher damage output and range, consistent throw combos (up throw -> fair or nair works for a while too) and has good edgeguarding game, which isn't really good for Corrin considering his mediocre recovery.
 

Skitrel

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#27
Disagree. Mac isn't a problematic matchup for Corrin any more than he's a problematic matchup for anyone else in the cast.

In fact, it's probably largely Corrin favoured. Counter destroys BOTH of Macs recoveries. Corrin has some of the best edgeguarding in the game, and Mac is juggle food to normal characters, let alone a character like Corrin with amazing juggle game.

Just don't throw out laggy moves against him like a fool. Same reason Mac causes problems against other characters.

If you stand on a platform and shield he can't do anything.
 
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Hydde

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#28
He can grab if you shield too much and the OoS options of corrin sucks. Also, his grab combos , jabchecks and dtilt combos at low% are simply brutal because how floaty corrin is and how he gets set up at low% against his quick blows that set you up for some heavy damage very early.

You cant contest his speed and you cant trade with him because of his power armor. Yeah you can gimp him out side the stage, but anyone can do that... but on stage is the real problem. His pressure game is off the charts for corrin.
 
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Skitrel

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#29
His pressure game is off the charts for the entire cast. None of those issues aren't issues other characters don't also have vs Mac barring a couple of extremely easy ones.

Mac at high level is a difficult opponent that can do real damage if you play unsafe, but his glaring weaknesses lead to his death when he makes a single error.

Once you get him above you he shouldn't touch the ground again. Uair frame trapping into nair forces him to go to ledge because he has absolutely zero way to stop it and such terrible aerial speed that he can't get away.

Once he goes to edge it's game over, a simply hit or a counter ends it. You just need to be consistent. This isn't really a matchup that's drastically different to any of the rest of the cast barring characters that can combo Mac all the way off. Any character that hasn't got a cheese tactic in the neutral (banana, sheik needles, etc) has to accept that Little Mac has the best grounded neutral game, but once you break his neutral he's dead.
 

Absol

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#30
He can grab if you shield too much and the OoS options of corrin sucks. Also, his grab combos , jabchecks and dtilt combos at low% are simply brutal because how floaty corrin is and how he gets set up at low% against his quick blows that set you up for some heavy damage very early.

You cant contest his speed and you cant trade with him because of his power armor. Yeah you can gimp him out side the stage, but anyone can do that... but on stage is the real problem. His pressure game is off the charts for corrin.

Or we could instant pin as soon as he tries to recover because he doesn't snap ledge. Mac will never touch the stage again against corrin if they launch him. Idk I don't see it really. The bad OOS options would hinder corrin a lot I suppose.
 
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Rioku

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#31
I'm also still convinced, as I was when I played Cloud, Robin, and even this character that this dumb faced guy :4shulk: was made to battle sword characters. The Monado is so strong, Speed gives so many neutral options, and Buster racks up percent so quickly that falling into disadvantage happens faster than the end lag of Fair. A good Shulk (get off For Glory, you ain't feeling it there) who can consistently Nair and Fair cancel gains range on Corrin and the lack of frame advantage on the move is a benefit, as it lasts so much longer than our reciprocal move. Seriously, this guy may do horribly against anyone using their fist, projectiles, or magic (or Eggs, which is a bit of all of them) but slap a sword in their hand and suddenly there are Monado Visions so good Riki could have killed anyone who held a stick as a child.
I want to comment on :4shulk: as a former Shulk main from Shulk's perspective. I hate the Corrin MU as a Shulk. A lot of people don't know this, but Shulk's recovery cannot sweetspot ledge unless initiated really close to it just like Cloud's. Unlike Cloud, Shulk has a super meaty second hit that can kill at moderately high percents from ledge, and his recovery hits through the stage normally making it easy to just end the move near ledge and magnet grab. Corrin is the only character other than Villager who doesn't give a flying whatsit about air slash. Villager can just bowling ball him forcing Shulk to recover high, similarly, Corrin can just out range the air slash and get easy tip fsmashes also forcing Shulk to recover high, or she can go for a DL pin easily if Shulk is recovering low and not going for the air slash hit, like he should be doing most of the time with the not using the second hit of air slash. Honestly I find it much easier recovering high on Villager than I do on Corrin. Corrin is built to kill off the top while in the air. Shulk's fastest aerial is frame a 13 nair making a counter reaction stupidly easy too (yes I'm mentioning counter). Shulk is an incredibly easy character for Corrin to punish due to his terrible frame data and Corirn's ridiculous range. Shulk's range is his biggest advantage (not counting his amazing mobility in Jump and Speed) and Corrin just beats that extremely hard. The only thing Shulk has on Corrin is harder hits and situationaly better mobility in Jump. Corrin easily trumps Shulk's speed mode mobility on any platform heavy stage.

I personally find this match up brutally difficult as a Shulk because it just feels like Corrin can act as if my biggest advantage is non existent. Yes Shulk has way more range on fair and nair, but that means jack in the face of DL or frame 6 nair. Corrin's mobility on any platform stage is god like compared to vanilla Shulk because of side b. The stun projectile makes it super hard for Shulk to get around without Jump or Speed on FD or stages with few platforms like Smashville or Duck Hunt. Shulk is forced to run Jump or Speed just to get around the character which only helps marginally as his best movement monado, Jump, leaves him with the largest damage taken increase of any of his monados, and speed reduces the damage he does.

Also to comment on nair and fair canceling, Shulk can only autocancel fair without double jumping, and that takes a full hop where the move must come out within the first three frames of the full hop. Autocanceling with anything when not recovering is extremely impractical on Shulk. Monado canceling is another story and that's pretty much Shulk's best option when approaching against Corrin, but that is one of the hardest techs in the game (trust me I've spent hours labbing the timing) and is really an all or nothing option as you do not want to waste your movement or damage monados. It's also his best option when approaching period but that's beside the point.

tl;dr I firmly believe Corrin beats Shulk hard.
 
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#32
The hardest matchup that I've seen or played against is Ryu because he has very great combo game many ways to get in and has strong kill power oh plus he can trap you
 

Garde Noir

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#33
Oh **** the DL hop goes over Lloid? That sounds like it'll help a lot. Does Nair also work for beating slingshot? I kinda doubt I can time Fair right to swat those away.
Nair does, but there are slots open. You'd be surprised how a bit of practice gets you decent timing, Fair is faster than you think.
DL Hop over lloid isn't quite as consistent as you'd think. As my partner gets more practice, and I get more reckless, I've found I'm getting him more. It does hop over a MOVING Lloid, but the stationary one doesn't have a "hurtbox" and therefore can still hit you pretty hard as you try and jump over it.
I want to comment on :4shulk: as a former Shulk main from Shulk's perspective. I hate the Corrin MU as a Shulk. A lot of people don't know this, but Shulk's recovery cannot sweetspot ledge unless initiated really close to it just like Cloud's. Unlike Cloud, Shulk has a super meaty second hit that can kill at moderately high percents from ledge, and his recovery hits through the stage normally making it easy to just end the move near ledge and magnet grab. Corrin is the only character other than Villager who doesn't give a flying whatsit about air slash. Villager can just bowling ball him forcing Shulk to recover high, similarly, Corrin can just out range the air slash and get easy tip fsmashes also forcing Shulk to recover high, or she can go for a DL pin easily if Shulk is recovering low and not going for the air slash hit, like he should be doing most of the time with the not using the second hit of air slash. Honestly I find it much easier recovering high on Villager than I do on Corrin. Corrin is built to kill off the top while in the air. Shulk's fastest aerial is frame a 13 nair making a counter reaction stupidly easy too (yes I'm mentioning counter). Shulk is an incredibly easy character for Corrin to punish due to his terrible frame data and Corirn's ridiculous range. Shulk's range is his biggest advantage (not counting his amazing mobility in Jump and Speed) and Corrin just beats that extremely hard. The only thing Shulk has on Corrin is harder hits and situationaly better mobility in Jump. Corrin easily trumps Shulk's speed mode mobility on any platform heavy stage.

I personally find this match up brutally difficult as a Shulk because it just feels like Corrin can act as if my biggest advantage is non existent. Yes Shulk has way more range on fair and nair, but that means jack in the face of DL or frame 6 nair. Corrin's mobility on any platform stage is god like compared to vanilla Shulk because of side b. The stun projectile makes it super hard for Shulk to get around without Jump or Speed on FD or stages with few platforms like Smashville or Duck Hunt. Shulk is forced to run Jump or Speed just to get around the character which only helps marginally as his best movement monado, Jump, leaves him with the largest damage taken increase of any of his monados, and speed reduces the damage he does.

Also to comment on nair and fair canceling, Shulk can only autocancel fair without double jumping, and that takes a full hop where the move must come out within the first three frames of the full hop. Autocanceling with anything when not recovering is extremely impractical on Shulk. Monado canceling is another story and that's pretty much Shulk's best option when approaching against Corrin, but that is one of the hardest techs in the game (trust me I've spent hours labbing the timing) and is really an all or nothing option as you do not want to waste your movement or damage monados. It's also his best option when approaching period but that's beside the point.

tl;dr I firmly believe Corrin beats Shulk hard.
I read your post over, and played a semi-decent Shulk as Corrin, and a bad Corrin as my old Shulk. Maybe it's my inexperience, but I found that I had to respect Air Slash a lot more than you're implying. I often tried to jump above and get a DL tipper, only to get hit by a stalled hit. I did find it harder as Shulk than I expected, but I found it harder as Corrin than I should have. Perhaps it's a personal thing, but it could also be that most of his attacks outrange Corrin, and under a lot of circumstances I was just plain outdamaged when he was in Buster.
I rescind my statement saying Shulk is really good, but I still think Shulk beats Corrin with a decent amount of match-up knowledge. I respect your disagreement, and think anyone reading the thread should consider both (though consider Rioku a little more)
 

WondrousMoose

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#34
Nair does, but there are slots open. You'd be surprised how a bit of practice gets you decent timing, Fair is faster than you think.
DL Hop over lloid isn't quite as consistent as you'd think. As my partner gets more practice, and I get more reckless, I've found I'm getting him more. It does hop over a MOVING Lloid, but the stationary one doesn't have a "hurtbox" and therefore can still hit you pretty hard as you try and jump over it.

I read your post over, and played a semi-decent Shulk as Corrin, and a bad Corrin as my old Shulk. Maybe it's my inexperience, but I found that I had to respect Air Slash a lot more than you're implying. I often tried to jump above and get a DL tipper, only to get hit by a stalled hit. I did find it harder as Shulk than I expected, but I found it harder as Corrin than I should have. Perhaps it's a personal thing, but it could also be that most of his attacks outrange Corrin, and under a lot of circumstances I was just plain outdamaged when he was in Buster.
I rescind my statement saying Shulk is really good, but I still think Shulk beats Corrin with a decent amount of match-up knowledge. I respect your disagreement, and think anyone reading the thread should consider both (though consider Rioku a little more)
Shulk's frame data is awful, and Corrin's is pretty good, so that right there gives us a big advantage. His hitboxes are just as large against the rest of the cast, most of whom body him, so with the great range we have on our moves, Shulk can't do much of anything unless he gets a good read or we play recklessly.
 
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#36
:4tlink: can run around Corrin very easily and throw projectiles.
:4robinm: can in theory beat our ***** in neutral with Arc Fire and what not.
Toon link might have projectiles but there pretty predictable and really avoidable.With Robin you out speed,grab and attack.But the spacing tools are in Robin's favor
 

Zephil

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#37
I know its waaay to early for a matchup chart but this is what I believe is right now Corrin's worst matchups.

As you can see I believe most of her worst matchups are against very aggro chars.

There are some of them that I am still in a little limbo like Rosalina and Pikachu.

While I may be wrong in the matchup chart, I am a believer that Corrin is a well-rounded char with many tools that may have some tough matchups but definitely nothing unbeatable.
 

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Skitrel

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#39
I know its waaay to early for a matchup chart but this is what I believe is right now Corrin's worst matchups.

As you can see I believe most of her worst matchups are against very aggro chars.

There are some of them that I am still in a little limbo like Rosalina and Pikachu.

While I may be wrong in the matchup chart, I am a believer that Corrin is a well-rounded char with many tools that may have some tough matchups but definitely nothing unbeatable.
Not TOO bad. I can see some of the reasoning. I think it's a good idea for us to start getting these views discussed, so I'll chime in with a few of my thoughts. I'll try and keep it limited in total characters to major matchups that matter though.

+1s (for Corrin)

Rosalina
We ruin her game, without Luma she's generally got zero offensive game and we have every option to kill Luma while Rosa simply can't stop us from doing so.

Sonic
His spindash game is shut down completely by both DFS and DL. He also likes to kill off top with high a commitment string, this leads to hilariously easy counter kills. IP can punish him on most of his options on shield.

Ryu
He struggles to get in against most swordies, this is no exception. Gets heavily punished by us on some of his lag which is often safe against other cast members but become easy tippers for Corrin.

+0

Sheik
I don't think this is heavily in Sheik's favour enough to call it a +1. I do think it's slightly her way, but only due to needles. Her problems with killing regularly mean this matchup comes down to high percent on last stock. She will often take the lead but have Corrin catch up while she takes risks to try to kill.

Diddy
Without his banana this matchup changes drastically. If he keeps it well then it's in his favour, but we can pressure him well to take it.

Bayo
Her neutral isn't all it's cracked up to be. Good shield usage seems to have me not struggling too much, though occasionally they do seem to get those lucky games where they get past it just once or twice and earn ridiculous percent from doing so. I'm not too sure on it yet though.

Falcon
This is the most even matchup I've played of the better characters. Corrin and Falcon seem to go tit for tat against each other very well. Falcon can be juggled really hard which gives Corrin a lot of damage, while Corrin's speed gives Falcon damage with high pressure.

Mario
Hard. But not undoable. I was tempted to put this in -1, but it's not quite been hard enough for that in my opinion. We can outrange him to keep him out but a combination of projectile usage and high pressure inevitably lets him push through. Fortunately he is incapable of punish IP on shield so we can abuse it very heavily in the matchup.

-1s (against Corrin)

Fox
His combos are painful, we don't have the luxury of a fast enough move to break away from him. His high speed allows him to mixup his movement well and it's near impossible to predict him. He can wait for us to choose an option then easily punish and convert. I'm not sure if we even have a safe on shield option in this matchup. If I'm missing something in this matchup I would really like to hear thoughts, because everyone has a pocket Fox, there needs to be a strategy to fight him as it will be a free counterpick win for opponents otherwise.

Metaknight
Zero to deaths aren't fun, they're relatively easy for Metaknight to start up too. He can punish every option we have on shield including bair in some cases. It's a real problem. I've had positive results by staying near the edge and playing around ledge invincibility a lot. It's gimmicky though, I feel like they'll develop a counter strategy quickly.

-2

Luigi
Kills us 100% of the time offstage. Easy kills for Luigi. This is a terrifying matchup that I am not uncomfortable calling as horrible as the Ness vs Rosalina matchup. Counterpick character is a MUST. Eff everythinh abouthfsdfsdsl5
 
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Zephil

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#40
Not TOO bad. I can see some of the reasoning. I think it's a good idea for us to start getting these views discussed, so I'll chime in with a few of my thoughts. I'll try and keep it limited in total characters to major matchups that matter though.

+1s (for Corrin)

Rosalina
We ruin her game, without Luma she's generally got zero offensive game and we have every option to kill Luma while Rosa simply can't stop us from doing so.

Sonic
His spindash game is shut down completely by both DFS and DL. He also likes to kill off top with high a commitment string, this leads to hilariously easy counter kills. IP can punish him on most of his options on shield.

Ryu
He struggles to get in against most swordies, this is no exception. Gets heavily punished by us on some of his lag which is often safe against other cast members but become easy tippers for Corrin.

+0

Sheik
I don't think this is heavily in Sheik's favour enough to call it a +1. I do think it's slightly her way, but only due to needles. Her problems with killing regularly mean this matchup comes down to high percent on last stock. She will often take the lead but have Corrin catch up while she takes risks to try to kill.

Diddy
Without his banana this matchup changes drastically. If he keeps it well then it's in his favour, but we can pressure him well to take it.

Bayo
Her neutral isn't all it's cracked up to be. Good shield usage seems to have me not struggling too much, though occasionally they do seem to get those lucky games where they get past it just once or twice and earn ridiculous percent from doing so. I'm not too sure on it yet though.

Falcon
This is the most even matchup I've played of the better characters. Corrin and Falcon seem to go tit for tat against each other very well. Falcon can be juggled really hard which gives Corrin a lot of damage, while Corrin's speed gives Falcon damage with high pressure.

Mario
Hard. But not undoable. I was tempted to put this in -1, but it's not quite been hard enough for that in my opinion. We can outrange him to keep him out but a combination of projectile usage and high pressure inevitably lets him push through. Fortunately he is incapable of punish IP on shield so we can abuse it very heavily in the matchup.

-1s (against Corrin)

Fox
His combos are painful, we don't have the luxury of a fast enough move to break away from him. His high speed allows him to mixup his movement well and it's near impossible to predict him. He can wait for us to choose an option then easily punish and convert. I'm not sure if we even have a safe on shield option in this matchup. If I'm missing something in this matchup I would really like to hear thoughts, because everyone has a pocket Fox, there needs to be a strategy to fight him as it will be a free counterpick win for opponents otherwise.

Metaknight
Zero to deaths aren't fun, they're relatively easy for Metaknight to start up too. He can punish every option we have on shield including bair in some cases. It's a real problem. I've had positive results by staying near the edge and playing around ledge invincibility a lot. It's gimmicky though, I feel like they'll develop a counter strategy quickly.

-2

Luigi
Kills us 100% of the time offstage. Easy kills for Luigi. This is a terrifying matchup that I am not uncomfortable calling as horrible as the Ness vs Rosalina matchup. Counterpick character is a MUST. Eff everythinh abouthfsdfsdsl5
You actually made me change my perspective on some of the matchups.

MK
You are absolutely right about MK, I feel the reason why I didn't considered it as a threat is because I haven't fought with a MK consistent enough with its 0 - deaths. Definitely at the highest levels, this matchup may be tougher than I thought for Corrin.

Ryu
I feel the opposite with Ryu than MK. I agree that he struggles against our disjointed hitboxes but his punish game its so ridiculous that I can't see it as an advantage for us. For now I still believe its even.

Sonic
Maybe I am overestimating Sonic. While the pressure is not as crazy as against Fox, as Sonic gameplay is generally a classic hit and run style I feel he can actually deal some pretty big damage to us quickly. The thing is that he may have a lot of trouble getting the kill and that's were we can punish him hard. I think is in our favor but not enough yet to put it as +1.

Luigi
I am really confused about this one. I actually feel the matchup its pretty good for us. We can combo him safely with proper spacing without having the risk to be punished by his nair. Because of his movement I feel we can control the stage better than him. What I am more curious is on the killing offstage 100%. What makes Luigi so threatening offstage? I personally I am more afraid of Bayonetta and Sheik offstage than Luigi.
 
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