Wes Talks Bans With Smash On Blast

[Exposure nX]

There's actually a glitch to play on both willys castle and norfair with out the hazards or omega mode. it involves 8 player mode and it doesnt have to be 4v4 or 3v3.

 

[warriorman222]

"The Smash 4 community has had a number of bans put in place very early in the life cycle of the game, namely custom moves and Mii Fighters."

Custom moves are not "banned", they are options to be toggled ON/OFF as seen with other options (e.g. item toggle).

Disallowing Mii as a character would be placing a "ban" on that character. Considering there's nothing ban-worthy about Mii they should be allowed up to the same extent as any other character.

Carry on.

Custom moves may not be definitionally banned, but they are functionally banned AKA we aren't allowed to use them, because the TO won't allow you to.

Doing the above effectively bans Miis, as even though they are still playable, they become the game's 3 worst characters(Gunner is arguably low tier, but Brawler is worst followed by Swordsman), and are the only ones to actually be unusable in FG, meaning if you have no skilled friends you can't practice. I don't think it's worth the trouble to go and find people to train, when you're using one of the game's worst characters. If you want to win, you're pretty much not allowed to use Miis. Without customs, they make you lose. And with customs Brawler is SS tier, screw Diddy we need diversity.

 

[salaboB]

I think Nintendo is the one that really missed the boat here -- it would be pretty straightforward to allow character move customization right on the char select screen (Without setting up equipment, etc. -- which could stay on the current "custom character" setup) and away you go.

Without that, you get a lot of hassle verifying nobody has -stat gear equipped (To present an empty circle while having bonus effects) and it's all around an awkward experience.

Plus as has been mentioned, the easiest online practice mode (1v1 For Glory) disables all customs anyway, making it even harder to get good practice in for people without an active community nearby.

 

[warriorman222]

There's actually a glitch to play on both willys castle and norfair with out the hazards or omega mode. it involves 8 player mode and it doesnt have to be 4v4 or 3v3.

That's not a glitch. It's intended.

 

[CaliburChamp]

The Smash 4 community can't afford to be ban happy. Custom moves and Mii fighters need to be legalized to give more depth and strategy to the game. This also makes this version of smash more different than Melee or Brawl, with these custom moves, its a whole new metagame. Which excites me. Seeing people banning it in tournament actually discourages me from joining the tournament. If you want a higher tournament attendance you will allow these custom movesets and Mii fighters. After all, some hidden Advanced tactics are hidden in the custom movesets. This will only make Smash 4 more entertaining to watch! Do it! Don't hold back! Go all out with Smash 4. Don't put brace weights on it! Let Smash 4 flex its muscles and ADAPT to it!

 

[Budget Player Cadet_]

Hey guys, remember when people said, "Let's not immediately ban Yoshi's Island, Orbital Gate Assault, Port Town Aero Dive, Norfair, and Luigi's Mansion, and instead see how they actually play in tournaments before just assuming that they're broken because they look weird or had problems in Brawl"?

Me neither. Which is kind of a shame, because in Yoshi's Island's case, it didn't even get a fair shot in Brawl, because it was also banned in Melee (and the stuff making it broken isn't really there any more).

Seriously, stages are part of the game too, and when we ban them, we ought to have damn good reasons, not just "I don't want to adapt to this" or "ew, physics changes, do not want".

 

[Pikmin1211]

So uh... where'd they get the kindergarten classroom? o-0

 

[Someguyyoulikelydontknow]

No need to watch the video. Most people I've spoken to, even at tournaments, want to use custom moves and a more expansive stae list. On top of that, many are ready to start entering 3v3 and 4v4 teams. The truth is that it's being decided based the personal preference of TOs and a few influential high level players. We need to break away from that kind of thinking.

3v3 and 4v4? So much yes! I'm down with that.

 

[Someguyyoulikelydontknow]

Inb4 someone discovers an insane combination and that's all we will see in tournaments with custom moves enabled.

I feel like, if and when custom moves are legal, if somebody found that insane, "unbeatable" combination, we could ban that set, or a move in that set together with the others in the set, rather than all custom moves.

 

[Wasp]

funny vid. and yes there's a solution to everything. Though i had some sorta ragequit just few minutes ago cuz of a metaknight only dude who kept on swiping the floor with me. Some characters still need to be tweaked slightly imo. The way this guy was killing me all the time seems really easy to perform. just downthrow me, and spam up air and finish with up b... he succeeded every f***********cking time lol... *getting mad again*

 

[CatStache]

480p master race

 

[SonicSpeed240]

I'm sorry, in the nicest way possible i just don't agree to custom moves being allowed. not all people know how to get all of them or the best ones, and it just takes away from the fair balance of the game as is. if separate tourneys wanna be held for customs and or equipment that should be fine, but tourneys should just be left alone as is. it makes it more fair that way, and more intense in my opinion. my friends have used some really dumb custom moves on me before, i don't wanna see that sh*t when playing in or watching a tourney. but yeah no character should be banned or anything like that they're all pretty well rounded and the character list is fair thus far. stages, eh depends on the stage i guess.

 

[SonicSpeed240]

also i don't think it takes a better player to learn how to counter certain customs. some of them are actually just spammy and priority one. it ruins the concept of certain moves being effective in a match. idk i just rather the matches raw as always but i guess it's just my opinion. really hope customs don't become legal though.

 

[warriorman222]

The only characters I actually would like to see have legal customs are Palutena and Mega Man because they actually have completely different moves. Other than that, I don't wanna have to deal with learning all those different moves and how to counter them.

*Mega Man but not Miis*

Your argument is invalid.

 

[iWouldLickZelda]

#superdiddykongbros

 

[OluGhost]

I agree with his points about adapting. A lot of you guys brought up good ideas about having set ups with custom moves already unlocked. Mii Fighter definitely needs more love. This game and the community is still growing and to truly allow growth he's right, we have to be open minded and put in the work to make the experience as optimal as possible. (I'm about to go play with some custom moves my dang self, such a neat but oft forgotten and under appreciated feature.)

 

[SuperSwagBros]

"Adapt"
*Smiles at camera*
xD

 

[SmashShadow]

*Mega Man but not Miis*

Your argument is invalid.

I thought Mii's were already legal in 1111, 2222, 3333 format.

 

[Zantetsugun]

I'd love to see custom moves brought back. They allowed for so much more creativity and potential in each character.

 

[CHA0SPHERE]

Customized movesets and equipment is tournament legal in "Dissidia: Final Fantasy" and "Dissidia 012: Final Fantasy". Some say custom moves makes matchups too varied and unpredictable, and maybe that's the whole point; keeping players on their toes and seeing whether or not they can quickly adapt to their opponent's moveset. I mean, "Pokémon" is similar in this regard as well, with certain Pokémon having a variety of different possible viable movesets, and making it the opponent's job to figure out what moveset the Pokémon has, and how to deal with it. Some food for thought.

I like this metaphor.

I think custom moves would be a fun idea and could shake up the entire tier list. Which is also what I think people are so afraid of!
Especially after they've spent so much time establishing a current tier list and learning match ups, with the intent of being successful in a tourney. It's a major setback to them that would restrict the learning pool to only offline players too.

So after that trail of thought, I'm not even sure I even like the idea anymore. Haha!

 

[Topologic]

With that logic, no pun intended, you're pretty much saying that Giant Mode, Stamina Mode, Metal Mode, and whatever other mode is in the game should be allowed in tourneys. I'm all for custom moves, but that would create alternate tier lists. I'm guessing this is why Miis aren't allowed in tourneys, because of their different abilities. Unless you don't care about a tier list and whatnot, then it's definitely a good thing. But to be fair, new things should be considered, and if they don't work out, they don't work out. If they do, then great.

Custom moves don't interfere with the framework of competitive smash (e.g. 2 stock, 1v1, no stage hazards...) and are just slight variations of the existing tools we all use to play. With their inclusion the game objective, movement and space in which the game operates would all remain the same. One player using giant, stamina or metal mode would force the decision on the other and drastically change one of the aforementioned parts of the game. That and 'features' (particularly custom moves) I see being comparable to the racket or clothing a tennis player might use, whereas games 'modes' to me being the type and size of the court and net. One being an individual option accessible to everyone and the other being an unavoidable change in the game for everyone. I should have and probably still could be clearer on that. Also, what importance does the possibility of an alternate tier list have in the decision? I always saw tier lists as a byproduct of us playing the game, not the other way round. Whoop! Whoop! for custom moves at EVO'15 :D

 

[EmptySky00]

My god. Wes you da man.

 

[JaggedToaster]

Even... try equiptment! ...somewhere in the future!

I'm fully supportive of customs, but equipment would just make everything hectic and wayy too complicated in my opinion. Plus some characters can hold more equipment than others and the only way to use more is to make your character slower which we all know Sm4sh doesn't need.

 

[Sonsa]

I'm fully supportive of customs, but equipment would just make everything hectic and wayy too complicated in my opinion. Plus some characters can hold more equipment than others and the only way to use more is to make your character slower which we all know Sm4sh doesn't need.

Yeah, Im really not into equipment, but I keep it as a possibility for like... 5 years in the future to keep things fresh. I wouldnt participate, but theres some cool effects like ...I forget, but I think it was something resembling some past technique in smash like wavedashing or L-cancelling.

It would be crazy complex...but rather entertaining I think at some point. Just opens up lots more possibilities. But with the game so young, even Im not ready to explore those possibilities yet.