Werewolves of Miller's Hollow | Game Over! Who could have possibly won?!?!???!

[Cello_Marl]

That's a bull**** excuse Kevin.

YOU were the one that said Mayling was scummy, and your first response to me just now is "This sucks, and it's everyone else's fault". You certainly weren't lying when you said you were going to ignore your problem.

@Town: Who thought Mayling wasn't town++ yesterDay? Please raise your hand.

If Kevin doesn't explain why he thought McFox should go, and why he thought Mayling was scummy, then can we please please please lynch him?

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Kevin: Wait...that was it? Passive-aggressive? More interested in personal survival? That's the entire reasoning that you'd be willing to "let her go"?

"Stupid town is stupid". WHAT THE **** DO YOU THINK YOU'VE BEEN DOING? YOU'RE MORE INTERESTED IN YOUR OWN GOD**** SURVIVAL THAN FINDING SCUM TOO, YOU ****ING HYPOCRITE.

 

[McFox]

You know, I saw Kev call us stupid and thought "Man, if only I could escalate that and throw it back in his face. That would solve everything."

Kev is right about this entire game revolving around you right now Cello, and I don't like it either. Instead of having a group discussion, you're tossing around orders like "I won't accept a lynch that isn't May or Kev." And since you're a confirmed town, everybody feels like they have to listen to you. It's antagonizing even to the people that agree with you. I'm tempted to defend Mayling just because of the way you're acting. Instead of Town vs. Scum, this game has become Cello vs. Everyone.

For instance, telling mentos how to use his power is incredibly anti-town. You really don't get a town read on mentos right now? He's coasting and keeps apologizing for doing so, but attempting to work with the town when he is here. This is what mentos always does as town, despite his early-game promise to the contrary. Sure, it's something he could exploit as scum, in which case we have a good candidate for a late-Day lynch. But if he's telling the truth, then you're just setting him up to 1) die, and 2) give scum a second NK on N3. That, if I may say so, would be a bad time for a second NK, more so than earlier Days.

Please, try to engage the town, instead of ruling it. You're so sure that you're right, 100% of the time, that it becomes disengenuous. Your reads on D1 (who you were, quote, "sure" about) are very different from your reads right now, and who knows how they're going to change by tomorrow? Maybe you'll reread things "with a different mindset" and suddenly change everything you thought before. Or maybe you'll get a different investigation result than what you were expecting?

The problem with thinking that you're always right is that sometimes you aren't. And bossing around the town like you are always right just antagonizes everybody. So instead, I want to pose the following to pretty much everyone except you Cello. Feel free to chime in, but I'm not really looking for your opinion here either.

@everyone, we all know that Cacti/Chaco have given us pretty much absolutely nothing so far in this game. *I was going to quote all of their posts here, but that'd be obnoxious, and there wouldn't really be much to glean from them. If you feel like making any kind of case against Cacti, be my guest, but he didn't really say much that I could discern either way.

Instead, I want to look at Omis, since I've gotten a weird feeling from him all game.

After rereading some, I'm stuck.

*Addendum* I wrote the following as I went through the topic, which is why it reads like I'm being surprised by the things I'm finding.

I had started a big anti-Omis post, but then changed my mind, and now I'm back in the middle. In the beginning of D1, Omis does some pretty scummy stuff, like admitting to quoting someone else just to show that other people are thinking the same as him, and some hardcore quote cherry-picking in an (ill-fated) attempt to make Cello look bad. Even goes so far as to call Cello scum and say that he caught him, but refuses to put down his vote, so it becomes a major nudge. And a bad one at that, as Omis' claims against Cello are clearly out there.

But then, later in D1, Omis defends MK, calling him a frustrated townie, instead of, say, finding a reason to vote for him.

Hmm, but then not long after that, Omis both approves of voting for him (as long as he's not hammering) and reveals that he is hardcore skimming.

Next up:

Vote MetaKirby
Claim or eat my balls

This, to a guy not just a few posts ago said he got a frustrated town read from. Apparently not enough to defend that person, just enough to comment on it and then force him to claim anyway.

But then, right after then when MK Appeals to our Emotions:

unvote MetaKirby
I am satisfied....for now. Stop asking for pity and make your cases earlier.

He unvotes him.

But then later,

Unfortunately, I believe we should just go with MK.
Stop baiting claims people
Mentos is a weak player for claiming
Cello is too aggressive and selfish
I hate claims in general

THIS, coming from the guy who said "claim or eat my balls."

Omis is just confusing, so I'm throwing all of this up there for everyone to comment on. How do y'all interpret this? Omis is all over the place, although the last thing I pointed out is a clear and blatant contradiction.

Next, let's move on to Kev, since it's inexplicable to him how anyone could suspect him. I'm going to organize the following by subject matter. We'll start with Xonar:

Xonar needs to die today

Vote Xonar

Him or MK today

Big anti-Xonar post. What changed between this post and the following one?

Vote MK

Xonar can stay now.

Agreeing.. with Xonar?!

Didn't notice, I was to stunned I agreed with you rofl.

And now he and Xonar have been buddying.

Next, Macman, which will then segue into me:

Macman should be killed.

What changed between this post and the following one?

Macman I'm getting townie vibes from.

Mcfox should go tomorrow.

Mac is super townie right now.

Scum goes in order of

Mcfox
Omis
Kirbyo

Agreed with that order?

What changed between this post and the following one?

Chaco, Omis today.

Vote Mcfox

Yo stay alive brah

I can kind of see the town-Kev now that I isolate them from the rest of the game.

@Kev - I think the problem people are having with you is that you rarely explain your votes. This leaves room for people to attribute their own reasons for it. Please, explain why you changed your opinion on Mac and Xonar from scum to town yesterday, and on me today. Do you actually have anything against Chaco aside from the fact that he's coasting? Do you not also see mentos playing just like he always does as town, and if so, what are your reasons for wanting him gone?

See, I'm being civil. You can answer my questions, right?

 

[KevinM]

Yeah I would love to bro, mainly at first I thought as I said multiple times D1 (at least I believe so I haven't checked back but I'm almost positive I at least said this outloud instead of just keeping it to myself) that I believed Xonar was pseudohunting.

After our row and I observed a few more of his posts, I changed his mind.

Macman was more of a I just wanted to lynch him because he was coasting hardbody and not really being swingy like I normally predict town to be, and as he started to liven up I decided to loosen up.

The more I saw you post the more I wanted to keep you around after one of your posts jumped out as me as scummy.

For purposes I've my own I'll keep that away from you.

I wish we could kill Cello, his style of play is completely detrimental to town, I'm glad someone besides me is finally noticing.

 

[KevinM]

@Kevin: Wait...that was it? Passive-aggressive? More interested in personal survival? That's the entire reasoning that you'd be willing to "let her go"?

"Stupid town is stupid". WHAT THE **** DO YOU THINK YOU'VE BEEN DOING? YOU'RE MORE INTERESTED IN YOUR OWN GOD**** SURVIVAL THAN FINDING SCUM TOO, YOU ****ING HYPOCRITE.

You know if we read half the posts I said about Omis and Chaco you'd notice I've almost blatantly ignored you and told others to all of D2, If that's being worried about my survival then so be it, I'd rather town just ignore a terrible town player and actually play the game.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Yeah, I agree that Cello's play so far is detrimental tbh. His constant rolefishing and his hasty conclusions lead to pretty uneducated moves like investigating me N1. Still think McFox is town and Omis / Chaco / Mentos can die. Scumbagfever looked p. good D1 not sure about D2.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Don't want to lynch Mayling toDay btw. Too productive to just lynch over - lynch Omis / Chaco / Mentos they play the same game that destroyed town in L4S

 

[Cello_Marl]

Uneducated? I made the investigation that, based on Meta-Kirby's flip, would change my mind if I was wrong, and that would eliminate the greatest amount of work in convincing the rest of the town if I was right. Since I didn't know that Gheb would make the most idiotic kill possible, I had no idea he was the Witch until Day 2.

Too productive to just lynch over - lynch Omis / Chaco / Mentos they play the same game that destroyed town in L4S

Just ****ing stop this. L4S was an ENTIRELY different type of game. People play differently when the ENTIRE ****ING POINT OF THE GAME IS TO LIVE. Honestly, if I didn't KNOW that you were town, and Kirbyoshi hadn't been killed, I'd still be pushing for you.

By the way, just in case you didn't notice...you're still playing the same game that destroyed town in L4S.

 

[McFox]

@Kev and Gheb specifically- just curious as to what you think of mentos Re: my last post. keV, you've played in plenty of games with mentos, you don't see him doing here exactly what he always does?

On my reread, he's the one people have given a solid reason for lynching the least. They just keep saying "mentos can go." Does anyone have anything better than that?

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Mentos: Your suggestion is ********. Let's say you skip N2. That's exactly the same scenario as what I suggested. But wait! In that case, you may very well choose to not go out on Night 3! And why shouldn't you; omgtehwolvesRgunnaeatYOU! But, in such a case (remember, we're supposed to think that you are town), then we'll have to "waste" a Day lynching you, giving the wolves another kill. The faster you die, the faster we can narrow down who the Piper is.

Go out every Night, and report your findings every Day. Watch me each time. Prevent me from pulling the same shenanigans that I performed toDay. I'm sure that's reason enough for you to stay out. If you die, then we don't lose that Day.

@McFox: No, I am not getting a town read from Mentos, because he's the **** Piper. Tell me this; at what point would you be willing to lynch Mentos? You obviously don't want to kill him now. From your POV, it's perfectly reasonable for him to use his own power at his discretion. But, what if he decides to not use it AGAIN to "save us from losing him"? THAT does us no good whatsoever, since we have no confirmation of his powers, hell, we don't even have the benefit OF his power. Stop thinking "That would be nice".

My original case against Mentos still stands, also he fear mongered with his weak reasoning for staying home at Night (he suggested that if he had gone out, and been hit, AND if we had mislynched again, then we'd be in LyLo. Also, he suggested that we would have an extra day from his decision, when that's simply not right no matter how you look at it.)

To the rest of you people: KILL MENTOS ON DAY 5 AT THE LATEST, and even then only if we hit two wolves and get one mislynch. For God's sake, don't trust his results unless Gheb or I confirm them, or you see (Town) attached to his corpse.

People that thought Omis can go from D2 alone: Cello, Gheb, McFox, Kevin, Bungle, Mentos.
Chaco doesn't count. That leaves Mayling and Xonar. Taking a page from Macman, that should give you all pause.

vote Omis

@Gheb, Omis was playing by trying to out people with bad logic. He was also worried that my opinion would carry far more weight than it should, a point parroted by Kevin later and embraced with open arms. It's just that he was tunneled on me for all of Day 1. So was Kirbyoshi. So was MetaKirby. So was McFox. I think all of them are town, and scum just coasted by rather than get into it. Also, what has Kevin

I've got your back toDay Omis, but I can't help you toMorrow. You have to get back into this game if you don't want May, Kevin, and...someone else to get you killed.

@Bungle: You said that I was breadcrumbing in #208. Omis had just said that too. But, where was I breadcrumbing?

 

[Mayling]

@McFox I really liked your case on Omis.

Too bad it went to waste.

 

[Omis]

Instead, I want to look at Omis, since I've gotten a weird feeling from him all game.
Im glad someone decided to step up to the plate and make a case instead of just trying to say Omis can die in various ways.
After rereading some, I'm stuck.

*Addendum* I wrote the following as I went through the topic, which is why it reads like I'm being surprised by the things I'm finding.

I had started a big anti-Omis post, but then changed my mind, and now I'm back in the middle. In the beginning of D1, Omis does some pretty scummy stuff, like admitting to quoting someone else just to show that other people are thinking the same as him,
I dont see anything too scummy about this. It could be scum buddying or it could just be town finding supporters. Because of the crap game I play, I dont get many followers so I brought out what I said because someone else had similar feelings.
and some hardcore quote cherry-picking in an (ill-fated) attempt to make Cello look bad. Even goes so far as to call Cello scum and say that he caught him, but refuses to put down his vote, so it becomes a major nudge. And a bad one at that, as Omis' claims against Cello are clearly out there.
I would definitely not call that hardcore cherry picking. I was talking to him about the activiety policing and how he was adding extra words to lengthen things and he denied it so I pointed out to him that he was contradicting himself and pointed out other things in his post that came to my attention.
But then, later in D1, Omis defends MK, calling him a frustrated townie, instead of, say, finding a reason to vote for him.

Hmm, but then not long after that, Omis both approves of voting for him (as long as he's not hammering) and reveals that he is hardcore skimming.
I didnt want to accidentally hammer. Im ok with me hammering as long as the person has gotten a sufficient amount of defense for me to be assured of their alignment. If I had hammered right then, it would have been very fool hearty. Im stingy with my votes. I was skimming and I apologize for my attitude day one.
Next up:

At a certain point you just have to go along with the vote wagon, especially when their were only two days left until the deadline..

This, to a guy not just a few posts ago said he got a frustrated town read from. Apparently not enough to defend that person, just enough to comment on it and then force him to claim anyway.

But then, right after then when MK Appeals to our Emotions:

I unvoted him because he started to make some cases and intelligent posts so I wanted to look over those more and possibly ask him questions before someone could come in and hammer

He unvotes him.

But then later,

The way SWF works, for the most part, is that we always ask for their claim before we lynch them. Im not usually a fan, but its something that always happens.

THIS, coming from the guy who said "claim or eat my balls."

Omis is just confusing, so I'm throwing all of this up there for everyone to comment on. How do y'all interpret this? Omis is all over the place, although the last thing I pointed out is a clear and blatant contradiction.

My responses are in blue. I thank you for having the balls to express what Im doing scummy.

 

[Omis]

Cello, while a appreciate you voting for me, I think I can hold my own and I would rather not have you trying to protect me.

 

[Omis]

Omis draw some conclusions.
Suggestion: Make a scum-town list and list your reasons as to why everyones where they are on the list.

Im not going to make a list of people whom I find to be town because that is how Macman died.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

There's something incredibly odd, just the way omis is playing today. He's really kept his cool, which, no offense, he generally doesn't when the pressures on.

Cello, Don't remember, let me reread and get back to you. More than likely I was picking up on something that wasn't there, I've been tryign to be extra sensitive to things like that.

Yes, Omis wagon looks really comfortable for scum to be on. You know why? Because he's playing MAD scummy. His first large post was just a recap of everything that had happened in the game and basically everyone elses thoughts on what happened day 1. His rebuttal to McFox makes sense, it just feels...off to me.

 

[McFox]

I dont see anything too scummy about this. It could be scum buddying

That was my point. It seemed more like scum saying "see, someone else agrees with me" than a town move. The major point here is is that you are, quote, "stingy" with your vote. It leaves you a lot of wiggle-room if you are scum to say near the end of a wagon "Well, I don't feel too good about this, but we don't have any other options." It's a way to remove blame from yourself, should a mislynch occur (see: the MK lynch, where you did pretty much exactly this). Quoting others that agree with you but not following it up with a vote (or really anything besides just the quote) is nothing more than a nudge; an attempt to get other people to do your dirty work.

so I pointed out to him that he was contradicting himself and pointed out other things in his post that came to my attention.

Except that it wasn't contradictory, and the other things you had to say didn't really hold any weight. It looked like pseudo-hunting at best to me. You pulled out the lines in Cello's post easiest to twist negatively.

I unvoted him because he started to make some cases and intelligent posts so I wanted to look over those more and possibly ask him questions before someone could come in and hammer

Except that you never did that.

The way SWF works, for the most part, is that we always ask for their claim before we lynch them. Im not usually a fan, but its something that always happens.

So? SWF is made up of individuals, you don't have to ask for him claim at all. This is just feigning responsibility for doing a job that "needed to get done," I suppose. The truth is that, especially if you hate claims as much as you're saying, you really had no reason to ask for his.

 

[KevinM]

Unvote Cello

I'm actually willing to let him die.

Super detrimental to town

 

[McFox]

I don't agree with how he's playing, but I'm not going with a definite mislynch over it either. Cello should absolutely not die.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I don't agree with how he's playing, but I'm not going with a definite mislynch over it either. Cello should absolutely not die.

This.

Why kill him other than the fact he's overly annoying? We should probably keep the confirmed fortune teller around.

Would much rather have Omis die today.


vote: Cello

 

[Mayling]

I think Gheb's vote is on Cello. Kevin's vote didn't matter, anyway.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

Either way, a vote count would be nice to confirm

 

[Chaco]

I can't do it. Replacement, please

 

[DtJ Jungle]

I'm glad our mod hasnt been on in 4 days to fix this problem

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

Fatchu has been contacted to replace Chaco.

Bunglefever's distaste towards inactivity has been noted. I will try to be more like him. Oh, wait.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

fatchu Has Been Contacted To Replace Chaco.

Bunglefever's Distaste Towards Inactivity Has Been Noted. I Will Try To Be More Like Him. Oh, Wait.

>: (

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

Vote Count
Cello_Marl (Gheb_01)
McFox (Mayling)
Omis (Cello_Marl)
Gheb_01
mentosman8
Chaco
Xonar
Bunglefever
KevinM
Mayling

Not Voting: mentosman8, Omis, Chaco, Xonar, Bunglefever, KevinM, McFox

Last picked is the fat kid lynched!

The day will end at the latest Sunday, March 7th, Noon EST.

 

[McFox]

Ouch. Burn.

Speaking of which, what is everyone thinking of Bungle? He seems detached from the game to me. He hasn't been pulled into the fray yet, so he's just commenting irregularly on what's going on. It'd be an easy way to coast as scum.

 

[Cello_Marl]

McFox, every person that you find suspicious is an instant clear to me.

That being said, I'll compromise a bit; after a reread, I'm actually OK with a Xonar lynch.

Long story short, he's done nothing but try to stir as few waves as possible. This is of course assuming that his interactions with Kevin were staged.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Pierre: What about my question? What happens when we run out of time with not everyone saved?

After thinking about it a bit, I'll unvote Omis, but not because I think he's scummy.

7 days. Let's hope that's enough for Fatchu (or whoever) to get into the swing of things.

I'm going to ask you about that again, Bungle, in a couple of days. Don't forget about it. Also, I'd rather Omis not mention it until Bungle responds.

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

8. If the deadline hits and a majority has not been found, no one will be lynched and night will begin.

In this event, if deadline hits and a lynch choice has not been found, no one will be lynched and night will begin.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

@Pierre: What about my question? What happens when we run out of time with not everyone saved?

After thinking about it a bit, I'll unvote Omis, but not because I think he's scummy.

7 days. Let's hope that's enough for Fatchu (or whoever) to get into the swing of things.

I'm going to ask you about that again, Bungle, in a couple of days. Don't forget about it. Also, I'd rather Omis not mention it until Bungle responds.

Would you care to tell me what you're talking about?

McFox tell me how I'm detached. You beat me to the punch on Omis.

 

[Pierre the Scarecrow]

Fatchu replaces Chaco effective immediately.

 

[Fatchu]

role confimed


You will have an informed post from me tommorrow.

 

[KevinM]

McFox, every person that you find suspicious is an instant clear to me.

That being said, I'll compromise a bit; after a reread, I'm actually OK with a Xonar lynch.

Long story short, he's done nothing but try to stir as few waves as possible. This is of course assuming that his interactions with Kevin were staged.

You would be assuming incorrectly and you yet again are tunneling on an incorrect statement.

I think I'm not even going to play this game anymore and just see how many times I can point out your wrong, since you apparently won't listen to anyone else.

 

[Cello_Marl]

@Bungle: I just asked you about the what you thought I was breadcrumbing. You said you may have picked up on something that wasn't there because you were being "extra sensitive to those things", and that you were going to reread. I have my own opinion on that, but I want to hear what you have to say first.

@Mayling: Any rebuttal toward Kevin's accusation of scummy passive-aggressiveness? Normally I'd feel you could ignore it, but keep in mind we're talking about someone who can say the word "contradiction" and potentially get someone lynched even when the two votes on that person were apparently from Scum's Kitchen.

@McFox: You're really set on thinking Mentos is town because he's been playing a load of suck. So, what would actually convince you that he's scum? Playing well? A confession? Being caught in a lie (like using his "power" and missing it)? What?

@Kevin: Which part? My comment toward McFox (which I'll admit was uncalled for), or about Xonar? Also, if you're so disinterested/disappointed in the game, why not replace out? I'd rather have anyone else that's willing to play anyway, and preferably someone who isn't willing to kill a confirmed townie.

@Xonar: Do you think Mayling was reaching when she said you had pushed suspicion on her? If so, what do you think about that?

Also, nobody raised their hand and said they thought May wasn't town Day 1. Yet, Macman is dead. (Concerning the point of why I wasn't targeted, safety comes to mind. If Mentos really is the LG, then the wolves would have given themselves away if they hit me before him. If he's Piper, then they are indirectly helping town. By not targeting either, the wolves don't have to be sure of identity.)

 

[McFox]

McFox tell me how I'm detached. You beat me to the punch on Omis.

It's more of just a feeling I'm getting, nothing concrete. Like Cello said about Xonar, you seem to be trying to make as few waves as possible. Since most of this game has been focused on louder players (Including a confirmed townie who has for some reason has you already cleared *cough*), you've been able to pretty much slip completely under the radar for the entirity of the game. I don't like that.

As for mentos, I just get a town vibe from him, that's all. If the town is convinced he should be lynched, I'll go along with it. I'm not going to hold the town hostage over it like some people I could mention. But since I'm being asked for my opinion, I'm getting mentos as town. I'm unsure on Omis, could probably be better-convinced to go on Xonar, and am not liking the current Bungle situation. Although thinking about it now, I could easily see a Xonar/Mayling/Bungle scumteam right now. None of them have had any kind if significant interaction with each other; Xonar has been buddying Kev, Mayling has been buddying me, and Bungle has been out of the fray entirely. Those are my thoughts right now.

And Kev, if you're really just going to quit playing you should just replace out. Although I'll be sad to see you go.

 

[Mayling]

@Mayling: Any rebuttal toward Kevin's accusation of scummy passive-aggressiveness? Normally I'd feel you could ignore it, but keep in mind we're talking about someone who can say the word "contradiction" and potentially get someone lynched even when the two votes on that person were apparently from Scum's Kitchen.

I thought it was a load of bull. How could I play passive aggressively and get someone lynched while trying to look like I was trying to survive?

If he meant toDay I could see it, but I do believe he was saying I was scummy before my change in playstyle toDay. At this point I'm afraid to say anything about anyone else because I'm afraid it'll look like I'm just trying to get pressure off myself. But I want to do anything I can to prove I'm town. Apparently, for Cello, it's DIE (either through lynching or night kills). Which doesn't make sense to me.

Did anyone think Macman wasn't town? Raise your hand.

McFox, how have I been buddying you in a way you haven't been buddying me?

 

[Fatchu]

@cello: Why would you risk yourself by claiming that you are the fortune teller? The fact that you were not murdered on N1 shocks me.

 

[Mayling]

Although thinking about it now, I could easily see a Xonar/Mayling/Bungle scumteam right now. None of them have had any kind if significant interaction with each other; Xonar has been buddying Kev, Mayling has been buddying me, and Bungle has been out of the fray entirely. Those are my thoughts right now.

Strange. So your case on Omis just disappeared altogether?

 

[McFox]

Well the difference between us buddying each other is perspective. I know it's not scummy for me to buddy you, since I know I'm not scum. But you're still an unknown to me. In the other games we've been in, I thought it was easy to tell that you were town. This game I'm not getting the same feeling, which worries me.

As for Omis, he could easily be scum, or not. That's why I made the case, to see what everyone thought about it.