Welcome to the Fox Hole - A Fox General Discussion

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Post here to talk about all fox. Ask questions, post vids, do a barrel roll, talk **** on wolf and all that crap.

 

[Rhus]

Yay a Fox general discussion. :3

One of my good friends plays Olimar quite well, and I know that he's supposed to be bad in Project M, which I don't believe in the slightest, I still have some issues with him.

It's not that I consistently lose to his Olimar, it's more that I'm pretty much dead once he gets momentum. I seem to have to force a defensive/neutral game to come out ahead.

Am I doing something drastically wrong? Olimar can shield grab everything, and it makes doing much of any pressure difficult, especially when my pressure game is somewhat weak.

Anyone have any experience here?

 

[Foxy K]

First of all, if someone gets momentum against a spacie (ie a hit confirm), they can combo us for days, so that's not unusual. But if he is shield grabbing you, you're definitely doing something wrong. If you land your L Cancel on either a nair or dair on his shield, you should be able to shine before he has a chance to grab, which will either hit (because he /tried/ to grab) or will hit his shield, at which point you can keep pressuring his shield.

If you not good at shield pressure, like me, you may want to just wavedash backwards out of your shine. However, I'm not sure how long Olimar's grab range is (pretty long afaik), you may want to just wavedash through him.

 

[Yams Everywhere]

Why do foxes like dreamland? I never get why fox players go to dreamland because of the high ceiling and large boundaries.

 

[Rhus]

First of all, if someone gets momentum against a spacie (ie a hit confirm), they can combo us for days, so that's not unusual. But if he is shield grabbing you, you're definitely doing something wrong. If you land your L Cancel on either a nair or dair on his shield, you should be able to shine before he has a chance to grab, which will either hit (because he /tried/ to grab) or will hit his shield, at which point you can keep pressuring his shield.

If you not good at shield pressure, like me, you may want to just wavedash backwards out of your shine. However, I'm not sure how long Olimar's grab range is (pretty long afaik), you may want to just wavedash through him.

Yeah, I know dying once they get momentum is a spacie thing.


Ah, then it is likely a problem with my speed then. I'l have to sit in training for a little while and try to get my speed up a notch to help me shield pressure and/or disengage easily once he has blocked something. I, too, usually waveshine backwards because my offense game is pretty average. I'll try wavedashing through him as well, thanks for the tips.

And I hate Dreamland, even though it gives us space to run and force neutral/defensive games, the blast zones are waaaaaay too large for Fox in my opinion, I thought it was his worst stage. ._.

 

[Foxy K]

My biggest problem with shield pressuring is delaying the timing of everything since shield stun is longer than hit stun. If you're landing your L Cancel but not the shine, then you're right- you have to speed up. But if you're hitting his shield with your aerial and missing your L Cancel, you have to slow that particular timing down a bit (which is what I always mess up).

 

[Rhus]

Now that you mention it, it is likely that I'm inputting things too early and I have to slow it down.

This happens constantly when my hands get warmed up and I begin to move faster and such, but end up messing up waveshining because I input the jump too early, and as everyone knows, the shine cancelling timing is slightly different when you hit something.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Why do foxes like dreamland? I never get why fox players go to dreamland because of the high ceiling and large boundaries.

The stage is also big so you get knocked off less and can laser camp and use your higher mobility.

 

[YaBoy]

The stage is also big so you get knocked off less and can laser camp and use your higher mobility.

plus Up smash still kills at like 100%

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Yeah it is a bigger problem to high base knockback low knockback stacking moves, for example Marths f-smash. Pit who likes to kill upwards does it because he is so close to the ceiling and he has also big problems killing on DL. This is not true for Fox by any means.

 

[Bellioes]

Is it still possible to shine Fox/Falco outve phantasm?

Does not having that invincibility frame from melee make this impossible or its just me missing the timing?

 

[Foxy K]

Is it still possible to shine Fox/Falco outve phantasm?

Does not having that invincibility frame from melee make this impossible or its just me missing the timing?

I would say it makes it so that you have to perfectly time it AND space it. But I don't know for sure. I THINK you can do it.

 

[YaBoy]

Is it still possible to shine Fox/Falco outve phantasm?

Does not having that invincibility frame from melee make this impossible or its just me missing the timing?

wouldnt it be safer if you just U-tilt or back air?

 

[Bellioes]

wouldnt it be safer if you just U-tilt or back air?

Yeah, if Im on stage I like to U-Tilt or Dsmash if hes aiming for edge. But Im asking more for when attempting a shine spike. From melee, I sometimes had the habit of shining slightly in front of Falco if I didnt think I could make it before his phantasm started.
It usually worked for me but in PM, whenever ive been pretty much sure I got it, it doesnt and I get SideB meteor spiked. I was thinking it wasnt possible anymore. Im still a scrub fox lol, Ill probably stick to on-stage edgeguarding then.

 

[YaBoy]

Yeah, if Im on stage I like to U-Tilt or Dsmash if hes aiming for edge. But Im asking more for when attempting a shine spike. From melee, I sometimes had the habit of shining slightly in front of Falco if I didnt think I could make it before his phantasm started.
It usually worked for me but in PM, whenever ive been pretty much sure I got it, it doesnt and I get SideB meteor spiked. I was thinking it wasnt possible anymore. Im still a scrub fox lol, Ill probably stick to on-stage edgeguarding then.

I am probably a lot scrubbier than you at fox. I only asked cause i usually hate leaving the stage as fast fallers in general. I wasnt sure if there was a reason past "shine spikes are really strong" as to why you were trying it

 

[Foxy K]

(In PM at least), it's not really worth trying to shinespike Falco unless he's visibly too low to phantasm, and only if he's close enough to jump out and shinespike on reaction to him charging firebird. This is because, if he still has a jump, he could quickly double jump and phantasm and catch you. If he's out of jumps and below the ledge, just go get him. If he has a jump, wait for him to start a firebird and THEN go get him. If he's level with the ledge or higher, just use your typical onstage edgeguarding tools (bair, utilt, or dsmash, basically).

 

[Bellioes]

Alright, thanks a lot for the help guys!

 

[Meme]

Question, does Fox's (and falco's) Side-B "Illussion" have the same hurtboxes/properties from Melee?

I'm asking this since I've never been able to interrupt them with a jab and some tilts. In Melee I had fewer problems edgeguarding spacies when they attempted doing Side-b on to the stage since I could jab them out of it and now haven't been able to do it in PM.

 

[Wilson Jr.]

What are the best grab punishes on Zelda and Samus? It's really difficult, if not impossible, to up-throw, up-air them consistently.

 

[Yams Everywhere]

What is the best way to punish tethers with fox? I tried to fair them as they come back on stage, but fair is a very mediocre punish. Is there any way I can squeeze a nair in or something?

 

[Meme]

A fast edgeguard with shine as they're rising from tether is a good option, if you mean when you force the jump onto the stage, a quick ledgedash/ledge jump+wavelanding upsmash should be fast and high priority enough for a good punish

 

[Yams Everywhere]

I can't seem to shine fast enough when they are coming up from the ledge, but the waveland upsmash should do it. Thanks

 

[SmashBroski]

I'd love it if the PMBR removed the white Fox skin and replaced it with one based on his SNES appearance like so:

 

[Pharo]

Hey guys. I just recently started playing fox and I've always played with tap jump off. Do I need to learn to play with it on to be good with fox? I also L cancel with R... Will this mess me up? I find dificulty short hop Nair shine short hop Bair shine repeatedly. Also Shine wave dash is a bit hard. Should I learn to play more with L? Please help me out I feel like I could be really good with fox... but I'm afraid the way I play limits me. Thanks guys

 

[Usopp]

FOX IS HYPE

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Hey guys. I just recently started playing fox and I've always played with tap jump off. Do I need to learn to play with it on to be good with fox? I also L cancel with R... Will this mess me up? I find dificulty short hop Nair shine short hop Bair shine repeatedly. Also Shine wave dash is a bit hard. Should I learn to play more with L? Please help me out I feel like I could be really good with fox... but I'm afraid the way I play limits me. Thanks guys

Tap jump off only limits you if you plan on playing Melee because there you can't change controls. L-cancel with R is no problem either. Ths sh nair shine and sh bair shine is just practice, one tip is to think of not pressing the jump button, but just sliding over it,
the key is to press it for 3 frames or less. Some players also like to remap the shoulder button they don't use to attack or do a claw, decide for yourself what works best.

 

[Rhus]

Hey guys,

Going to a small tourney this weekend and I know there are a couple Yoshi mains there and I know this is a rough matchup for Fox. While I could pull out Ness, Mewtwo, Ivy or Lucas for this, I would like to know what you guys think of the Yoshi vs Fox matchup and any experience you have in it?

I looked on the Yoshi boards and it was all "We chain grab Fox and kill him" and not much about what we do to him. Any suggestions on how I should play this?

 

[Spralwers]

Has anyone tried playing a PM optimized Fox? Making great use of SHAC bairs, RAR bairs, B reversed and wavebounced lasers, and taking advantage of easier pivots (compared to melee) to do pivot shines during dash dances? I would love to see what this looks like at a high level.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I am in no way at the level you are refering to but those techniques help my Fox quite a lot.
Pivot grabs and RARWD are also helping, besides the ones you mentioned

 

[CBO0tz]

Would it be OP if Fox's old Fair, UTilt, and BThrow from Smash 64 returned for Project M?

 

[zChaos]

What is some good Shield pressure? I need some tips! Give me some tips. Appreciate it!

 

[Heero Yuy]

So I'm tired of putting up with fast and annoying Fox, whom I think walks over my character. I know he's arguably the best in this patch right now, but what are some of his harder matchups?

Also am curious what you think of ZSS. (I'd really like the input since my biggest loses have been to Foxes).

 

[Chinaux]

What is a good option when coming from above? Would dair l cancel shine work? Nair? What else?

 

[shapular]

Does Fox have any bad matchups?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Does Fox have any bad matchups?

Was this made after 3.5 came out?

Also
HAVE YOU GUYS SEEN FOX'S DASH ATTACK CANCELED PIVOT GRAB??

@ SpiderMad
Is this the best one in the game?

 

[shapular]

Was this made in after 3.5 came out?

Also
HAVE YOU GUYS SEEN FOX'S DASH ATTACK CANCELED PIVOT GRAB??

@ SpiderMad
Is this the best one in the game?

Yes. Still wondering.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Yes. Still wondering.

Don't think so. I can see Marth, Roy, and Flaco being even tho.

 

[shapular]

Don't think so. I can see Marth, Roy, and Flaco being even tho.

So three even matchups? And people think I'm crazy for thinking Fox is OP >.>

 

[SpiderMad]

Was this made after 3.5 came out?

Also
HAVE YOU GUYS SEEN FOX'S DASH ATTACK CANCELED PIVOT GRAB??

@ SpiderMad
Is this the best one in the game?

@1MachGO

 

[Animage]

Fox's bad matchup is probs samus
I don't know the actual details but from what I know, samus-fox is 50-50 in melee, and taking in account pm buffs makes it samus' advantage in pm