Weekly Matchup Discussion: Pikachu. (MT linked)

[Coffee™]

This weeks character is none other than Nintendo's lovable Yellow Rat!, Pikachu!

PIKA!!!

Pikachu



Pros and Cons courtesy of the Pikachu Boards

[B][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Pros[/COLOR][/B]

* Fast Character
* Short Target
* Ability To Crawl
* Great Recovery
* All Specials Have Great Range
* Strong For Very Light-Weight
* Good Aerials
* Good Comboer
* Nice Grab Game
* Not too much lag in attacks other than Thunder
* Quick Attack Cancels

[B][COLOR="DarkOrange"]Cons[/COLOR][/B]

* Very Light-Weight
* Weak Tilt Damage
* Short Ranged Aerials
* Most Ranged Attacks Are Better Right Next To Characters

Discuss!!!

 

[Hayang]

I simply have no clue how to deal with pikachus QACing all over me.

 

[Peregrinus Falconidae]

I think you basically have it covered, except for thunder jolt which needa a mention of its own due to being a great annoying tool, useful for stage control and **** crazy movement patterns that give one limited evasive measures on most stages, allowing Pika to also use it to set up.

 

[krehz]

also another con/ laggy move would be skullbash, it has much time after it where pika is left open.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Ugh, not to offend the Pika mains, but I have a strong disliking for Pika.
I have not faced one that hasnt spammed either Dsmash or Projectiles in a long time, But let's see what I remember.

Dsmash is a common move for the spammy players. It has 7 Hits to it, and can be DIed out of though sometimes hard. It troubles the Shield, though there is a spall amount of time to punish Pika.

A Pika can just crawl to avoid straight arrows, and he's hard to hit since he's small. As one of the small and speed chars, spamming arrows wouldn't do much good.

Skull bash has been used as a recovery rather than just an attack. One of Pit's arrows will stop Pika's Skull Bash. If Pika is charging, it will interrupt him. If he used the move and gets hit by an arrow, then it will just stop Pika, no damage. It does leave Pika open as mentioned above, and vulnerable to a grab, or a smash of the Pit's choice.

I dont have nothing about that Quick Attack Cancel of his, except it is very hard to either predict where he is going, and to hit him. Pika can use it and quickly use a Thunder if he wanted to and if we aren't aware, we might fall for it.

Pika's Thunder... It has been trouble for a long time. The typical "Hit some1 into the air to Thunder" thing has been threatening for a long time. However, as a Pit, we have 2 reflectors. Some Pikas are concerned about using Thunder while we're above them, because we Pits might use one of our reflectors on the thunder to make Pika zap himself.
It's temping. Pika could take a chance to try to hurt Pit while in the air by using thunder, or risk getting Thunder reflected and taking damage as well.


I'm sorry, I just can't think about this matchup. It hasn't occured to my Angel for a while, cept maybe a spamming kind, but it doesn't help if I haven't recently faced a good Pika.

I'm also aware that Pika has some sort of chaingrab. But I haven't faced a Pika that uses it in so long, I don't remember if Pit can get chaingrabbed. Could any one of the Pika mainers please tell me if Pika could Chaingrab a Pit so I will be aware of it in the future? Chaingrabs happen to be one of my biggest weaknesses, something I normally don't share.

 

[[FBC] ESAM]

Let's see. Pikachu is an irritating character when having to play against one. However, i could say the same for pit. Ledgecamping pits are a REAL problem for pikachu. In my tournament experience, i have had to play Danny (or C.Doc) numerous times, and lose quite resoundingly. Ledgecamping is very hard to get around, even as someone with a decent projectile and thunder. Once pika gets close, he can just fair or uair him away, or just go to the other side! I have so much trouble with dealing with this, i have limited experience in the actual head-to-sword combat. Both have good combat speed, and somewhat limited range. Pikachu has more killing potential and comboability.

Both grab games are pretty useless, only to get somebody out of their shield. At low %s, pikachu can follow up a d-throw with a nair or u-tilt or u-air, and pit can follow up a d-throw with a uair at low %s. Pikachu. as far as i know, CAN NOT chaingrab pit. If anything, it is 1 extra grab, which gets you to 20%, but pit shouldn't be getting grabbed by pika in the first place. It is better for the pikachu to f-throw the pit and -smash afterwards.

Arrows arrows arrows. Those are the one thing that gives pit the edge. Sure you have a reflector, but it has some lag after you reflect, so we can punish afterwards. Controlling your arrows is very key against pikachu. He gets so disrupted by the simplest projectile, just because they are easily spammable. For pit, you need to camp as hard as you can against a pikachu. Get a quick lead by shooting some arrows or D-throw uair, and run the rest of the match. Ledge camping works incredibly well, even though pikachu is a small target. Learn to aim and hit pikachu, and you will have a much easier time. When pikachu is close, try to grab or D-smash away.

When recovering, watch for thunder. Also, if you try to go under the stage, don't hug the level, because a thunder-jolt might just knock you out of your up-b. When pikachu is off the cliff, just shoot arrows and disrupt him as much as you can. Pit isn't a really good edgeguarding character, so that is about the best you can do, and it can give a decent amount of damage.

Also, QAC becomes fairly useless because of pit's arrows. Since pikachu wants to stay close to pit, because that is where pika has the advantage, QAC will be sparingly used, since it is best used as a defensive maneuver, helping run away from the enemy and use more Thunder Jolts. If you see a QAC happy pikachu, just shoot arrows since you have to stay close the ground to QAC.

 

[krehz]

if any of you want to face us or me i would be happy to oblige, here is the link to our chat..... http://xat.com/chat/room/37180170/

 

[Hayang]

ESAM, couldn't you just repeatedly thunderjolt toward the ledge against an edgeguarding pit? Unless you're on a stage where pit can go through the main platform, I can't really see pit edgehogging a pikachu at a safe distance away while evading thunder jolts that hug the stage. While trying to come up from under the stage with a uair it would be hard for pit not to be hit by a jolt, and an arrow shot from the ledge is easily (power)shielded.

Then again people like Danny are amazing at ledgecamping so I might be missing something and just rambling theory.

 

[Sharkz]

ESAM, couldn't you just repeatedly thunderjolt toward the ledge against an edgeguarding pit? Unless you're on a stage where pit can go through the main platform, I can't really see pit edgehogging a pikachu at a safe distance away while evading thunder jolts that hug the stage. While trying to come up from under the stage with a uair it would be hard for pit not to be hit by a jolt, and an arrow shot from the ledge is easily (power)shielded.

Then again people like Danny are amazing at ledgecamping so I might be missing something and just rambling theory.

I was thinking the same thing, but I'd guess Danny was using the mirror shield.

 

[Coffee™]

ESAM, couldn't you just repeatedly thunderjolt toward the ledge against an edgeguarding pit? Unless you're on a stage where pit can go through the main platform, I can't really see pit edgehogging a pikachu at a safe distance away while evading thunder jolts that hug the stage. While trying to come up from under the stage with a uair it would be hard for pit not to be hit by a jolt, and an arrow shot from the ledge is easily (power)shielded.

Then again people like Danny are amazing at ledgecamping so I might be missing something and just rambling theory.

A Pit can Mirror Shield back Thunderjolts as well as actually shoot arrows while jumping away from the ledge which will disrupt you from continuously spamming Thunderjolts as you can't powershield and Thunderjolt at the same time.

 

[CorruptFate]

So I haven't played what I would call a pro picka for a few months now, but from what I remember is: Thunder is nothing to worry about, pray that pika uses it for Pit has TWO reflectors, and unless he is sudo Bsticking or Bsticking the bolt should hit him in the head. However Pika players know this and wont Thunder much if at all in this match, they know about the TWO reflectors, that it can be airdodged and is avoidable by DI. If you to get lucky enough to have a Thunder tossed your way, >B is my fav way of Dealing with it it has a huge hit box out in front and even some weird hit boxes in behind parts, so it is easy to hit the bolt. (Keep in mind that only the bolt it self can be reflected and not the blast on Pika.) Another reason that I prefer to use AR here instead of the Mirrior sheild is if you use it a few feet off of Pika's head, it will deflect the bolt into pika, the bolt knocks Pika up into the air and right into your AR, now he can get out of this but unless your using his bolt to get the kill, this will help rack up a few extra points of damage. (If you wanta be really fancey here, ART works as well and is harder to get out of.)

Thunder Jolt is a move to watch out for, it is great for gimping Pits ^B if you hug the edge and if used in the air and you get hit by the ball it self deals 10 damage, a good amount for a projectile like that. This also can intercept your arrows, if you have a spam off, but odds are it wont because it only has a hit box on the front of the bolt.

I think Pika has a better chance of gimping Pit then most, as he has Thunder jolt, and Thunder it self. Thunder can be mean for this as its not hard to get a double thunder and I have heard that people can get a triple thunder. And Pit can't use any B moves out of his Wings, so you just have to weave around a few pillars for Thunder to get back, or attak out of your wings then use DI and mirror or AR to make it back.

Pika's recovery is amazing its fast, great reach, and can go almost any where you want. This makes it hard for anyone to stop him, yes Pit can mirror his skull bash, but a pika wont let you very often, and either way he still has his ^B, and you can't predict where he will be with that very easy. I dont know if you can mirrior his ^B or not, but I don't see it working very often in a real fight anyway Pika will just avoid you then use the second one to finish it off.

Now I see in my mind how good QaC can be, but have never seen it used alot in game, so this is all speculation. This could be what makes the game for as it allows for him to move faster then even Sonic. he can do this into his legendary Dsmash but all you have to do if you get hit by his Dsmash is smash DI up and mash airdodge until you get out, now if you dont do this right, you might just find your self DIing up on an attack that hits you up a good amount so know what you are doing here.

For what stage(s) to pick I dont know for sure but I would asume pika's dont like platformers, as QaC must be used at ground level and the platforms stop thunder if he does try to use it. It goes nicely that Pit is good on Platform stages, but this is all speculation and I'm not truly sure on how Pika's handle there or not. I would say try to get BF or possable PS1, SV if BF get striked is striked for you first match in a set; and try to get norfair, Skyworld, or Luigi’s Mansion as a counter pick. As they all have platforms and for the most part small main stage area.

 

[Coffee™]

Ok, i'm bumping this thread...ten posts isn't exactly enough information to write a fairly good matchup summary IMO. As far as I can see this match is mostly neutral or possibly 55:45 in Pikachu's favour but I would really like some more information on the matchup before I go ahead and write the summary.

 

[Kyuubi9t]

pika is such a PAIN! in my opinion he has one of the easiest learning curves and is one of the most spammable characters. OMG i HATE playing stupid noob Pikas online that just taunt and use pika thunder the whole time... one-on-one this wouldnt bother me but with 3 other obstacles (noobs) and a 2 min time limit yea it gets underneath my skin a little. The pika thunder is such a pain how it now goes all the way down into the ground so that it hurts you even after the attack seems to be done! I think the way to beat him is to keep him in the air above you or off the edge.

edit: i might have just come off as a pika hater but i am not. I mained him in melee and was pretty nasty with him, they just changed his style far too much in this game for me to still use him. More emphasis on shocking electricity, less on menacing speed

 

[Coffee™]

pika is such a PAIN! in my opinion he has one of the easiest learning curves and is one of the most spammable characters. OMG i HATE playing stupid noob Pikas online that just taunt and use pika thunder the whole time... one-on-one this wouldnt bother me but with 3 other obstacles (noobs) and a 2 min time limit yea it gets underneath my skin a little. The pika thunder is such a pain how it now goes all the way down into the ground so that it hurts you even after the attack seems to be done! I think the way to beat him is to keep him in the air above you or off the edge.

edit: i might have just come off as a pika hater but i am not. I mained him in melee and was pretty nasty with him, they just changed his style far too much in this game for me to still use him. More emphasis on shocking electricity, less on menacing speed

I disagree, Pika doesn't have that easy of a learning curve due to QAC and some other little oddities. I can attest to that a I play Pikachu from time to time. If you play against noob Pikachus that spam Thunder then just spam aerial Angel Rings and Mirror Shield, after the first few Thunder reflections, they should give up, i'm sure -_- . Pikachu also has faster aerials than Pit so keeping him in the air isn't exactly the best thing to be doing either.

Also if anything, excluding wavedashing, Pikachu is even faster in brawl than melee due to QAC so....yea.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Some noobish Pikas I faced spam Dsmash and even B special in addition to the Thunders. Annoying, yes, but I seen others worse than a Pika. If they spam, then spam back with reflectors and arrows, though It's hard to hit Pika since he's small.

 

[Kyuubi9t]

I disagree, Pika doesn't have that easy of a learning curve due to QAC and some other little oddities. I can attest to that a I play Pikachu from time to time. If you play against noob Pikachus that spam Thunder then just spam aerial Angel Rings and Mirror Shield, after the first few Thunder reflections, they should give up, i'm sure -_- . Pikachu also has faster aerials than Pit so keeping him in the air isn't exactly the best thing to be doing either.

Also if anything, excluding wavedashing, Pikachu is even faster in brawl than melee due to QAC so....yea.

your points are valid, except for the very last one. Not by a long shot man. In melee, if you are running and you jump or short hop, you maintain the horizontal speed as if you are running. In melee this does not hold true, this is one of the biggest factors leading to my abandonment of pika. I also used his dashdance alot in melee, which i no longer can do. In melee i short hopped back and forth across stage with such speed with his Nair, and i used the QAC well also. He was significantly faster, in this game he almost plays like a power hitter. Id imagine raichu being more like Brawl pika, minus the QAC.

 

[CorruptFate]

So am I getting a write up soon or should we make a new thread for discussion?

 

[Coffee™]

Short, yellow and shocks things...enough said.

Seriously speaking, Pikachu is one hell of a character with few disadvantages and quite a challenge for most opponents, Pit included.

First of all Pikachu is short which means hes going to be a bit harder to hit with your arrows than most characters and this problem is only aggravated by his ability to crawl and the use of his erratic Quick Attack Cancels. Pikachu also has two projectiles, the first being Thunder Jolt, a projectile that travels along the stage as well as over edges and Thunder, a projectile that is initiated in the sky. Similar to other characters with projectiles Pikachu will be spamming them (Thunder Jolt) anytime he isn't directly attacking you, however Pit has two reflectors, so put them to good use and you shouldn't have too much of a problem with Thunder Jolt. Thunder is a bit different. The same principles apply in that your reflectors will still turn Pikachu's own attack againt him but because of the properties of this move you should still remain cautious when fighting Pikachu. As previously mentioned Thunder starts in the air and comes down to the stage in a long vertical path and is easily capable of killing off the top of the screen, Pikachu's will use this move sparingly due to Pit's reflectors but it is still definitley a move to be wary of especially when recovering with WOI or Gliding.

Pikachu also has extremely good aerials albeit being short ranged and can pose quite a problem to Pit. You're definitley going to want to keep this fight on the ground where the only moves you're really going to have to worry about will be Pikachu's Down Smash which you should always remember to DI upwards out of and his Forward and Up Smashes which are somewhat predictable. The advantage on the ground is definitely Pits so aim to keep the fight there as long as possible. Aside from Aerials, Pikachu also has excellent recovery options with Skull Bash and Quick Attack so don't think you're going to be gimping a good Pikachu anytime soon. Pikachu however has a better chance of gimping Pit than most characters due to the fact that he won't be scared to take the fight to the air and Thunder Jolt can also be used as a way to knock a Pit recovering from underneath a stage out of his Up B, so be cautious here as well.

Pikachu has a lot going for him, but remember he's still a light character and can be KOed fairly easily. Arrow usage although not as prominent as in most matchups is still quite important. As far as stages go i'd recommend No Fair as a counter pick as the platforms will definitley help against Pikachu in terms of limiting his attacking options, and take care to avoid stages like Final Destination or Smashville where Pikachu can readily abuse moves like QAC and Thunder.

Finished..

 

[Doctor X]

I think it'd be a good idea to include more info in the summary on how to SDI out of the downsmash. It's a little more active than just hitting up. I find moving both sticks in a quarter circle alternating across up works best. I almost never get popped up by this move anymore, which is what you really want to avoid. This can keep you alive until high %'s because this is easily Pika's most reliable kill move if you let him use it to it's full effect.

After escaping you can tech, but you're not out of danager. Pika can still tech-chase you if he's good. Sometimes-- particularly when it throws you out next to an edge where your tech roll would be limited-- it's a good idea to purposely *not* tech or DI off the stage so you can come out of the tumble more safely. If nothing else it makes you harder to predict.

I also disagree that it's a great idea to keep the fight on the ground. His dmash is faster than everything Pit has, and his fsmash outranges everything Pit has. You have to treat this one a bit like Melee Marth. He's dominant both in the air and on the ground if he choses his moves well. The best way to deal with him is to keep him guessing and use fast only fast, safe approaches and responses unless he does something stupid. One thing I like doing is standing with him right at the tip of Pit's dtilt range. The only move he can reach you with his fsmash, and you can powershield if you see it, or even dtilt him if you take the initiative.

 

[Eternal phoenix Fire]

When you fight Pikachu make sure that you are also selective on the aerials you do on the ground. Nair and Fast Fall Fair will give them a Free D-smash (Same thing can be applied to Bair as well). If you are going to SH aerial a grounded Pikachu, Dair would be the best choice. D-tilt should be utilized as often as possible given the situation.

Angel Ring could be utilized well here if the opponent Thunder Jolt approaches. SDI out of the D-smash is somewhat odd for me to do. I usually multiple SDI up/away with both sticks and I simply get flung. Even if you can't simply "Get out", make sure that you appropriate SDI away from the D-smash knockback. When sent vertical it's extremely dangerous for you.

I really don't know this match up well, so I usually counter pick Battlefield and try my best to keep him above me on platforms so I can Uair him. Pikachu's options for descending are limited, Pit's Uair has odd priorities that can eat through most aerials. Fast falling a Dair for Pikachu close to the ground would be suicide, so keep him on the defense when he is air borne .

Other than that, i'm pretty much lost on the match up. I usually just go by instinct when playing Pikachu.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

Man, not to hurt Pikachu users, but I have a strong hatred for pika. And I main Pika lol

I haven't played one that doesn't spam projectiles or dsmash, but lets see what I can think of.

Dsmash is pretty notorious for players that spam. It hits 7 times, but it can be DI'd out of though it is hard sometimes. It can shield poke too if his hurt's the shield. Punish pika if you manage to shield all the hits though.

Pikachus can crawl so they go under straight arrows. He's small so he's hard to hit. Spam wont help much because he's one of those small and speed chars.

They use skull bash to recover instead of attacking with it. An arrow will stop them in their tracks if they skull bash recover just like luigi. If he's charging, an arrow will hit him. It just stops pika if he is using the move and he takes no damage. Though it leaves pika open and vulnerable to a grab or smash of the Pit's choice.

I dont have nothing about that Quick Attack Cancel of his, except it is very hard to either predict where he is going, and to hit him. Pika can use it and quickly use a Thunder if he wanted to and if we aren't aware, we might fall for it.

That thunder...It has been long troubled since they started to thunder. It's so typical, the "Hit em in the air and then thunder" thing is threatening for many. But, we do have 2, count em, 2 reflectors.Pika's Some Pikas are concerned about using Thunder while we're above them, because we Pits might use one of our reflectors on the thunder to make Pika zap himself. Very tempting. Pika could harm pit in the air with thunder, or risk getting thunder reflected and then they get hurt.

I'm sorry, I just can't think about this matchup. I main him, but don't really play against good pikas. It hasn't occured to my Angel for a while, unless it's on wifi. It doesn't help if I haven't recently faced a good Pika.

Also, pika has some sort of chaingrab. I think fthrow maybe. I haven't played a pika in so long, can't remember. Someone should let me know what the pika chaingrab is on Pit. I'm pretty werak against chaingrabs, I don't usually tell people this.