WBR and Cohorts: What the **** are you doing?

[[TSON]]

This is not a troll thread; do not treat it as such. If you have an issue about any claim made in this post or topic, please PM whoever made the claim and sort it out there.


Hello WBR and Smash Workshop. I am here to iron out a few issues I have with not only how this place is run but the attitudes of some (NOT ALL) higher-ups, and also to explain my detachment from the project, along with many of the other users reasons.

I came here earlier this year to a striving community where everyone's opinion was valid, much different from the rest of these boards. The Workshop was a place where anyone could voice their opinion and be heard out for what it is worth. I log on some days in the present and are welcomed by posts like this from some of the members:

I am going to explain why this behavior this poster is complaining about exists. It is not any one user's fault. It is all of us as a community and how we work together.
What we, the players, are doing is supporting our own mains. Yes, that does make us dedicated, and being human we do have bias. However you must know when to draw the line. There are right-minded suggestions and there are ones that are so incredibly biased that they will not work.

What is happening here is that the WBR is relying on itself too heavily, when what the WBR is is an unorganized room of people who used to be nice and smart, that have evolved into elitist douchebags. They're paying too much mind to those who are suggesting bull**** and not enough to those who suggest legitimately because they assume, since they are not in the WBR, they are stupid. But they aren't. And when the people in their right mind see that they are being ignored or trolled, they tend to repeat themselves or get agitated.

I have heard my fair share of speculation from people explaining this, some say that it started with RC1, when Ness was buffed incredibly for no reason. But this buff had not originated in the Ness threads. And to cover up for their mistake, other beings in the backroom blamed the Ness mains. This propaganda, wherever it originated, has become so outrageous to this day that the WBR is ignoring everyone in the thread virtually, and "lol ness mains" has become somewhat of a meme. Note how before this, the main reasons why one would leave the WBR would be personal. Now look at it.

What I am here to point out is the direction that Brawl+ is heading. I do not hate any one personally, I know that you all are genuinely bright and each have the capability of being productive and nice, even the poster above. But this is becoming a bit tiring to sit along and watch everything spiral downward. This section, and Brawl+ as a project are near and dear to many of us. I personally would hate to see either of them leave. But the way that this is heading, it may very well happen.

Have you ever considered why you're going to be recruiting soon? It's because you're killing yourself off.


I notice now that the WBR has a 'secret agreement' to follow one of three post types (and rarely a forth, being a regular post) outside of the WBR:

1. The poster will quote a post that seems like a failure within itself, flame this poster (overkill), then continue to blab on about absolutely nothing related to the subject in an attempt to avoid infractions.
2. The poster will troll or make a joke that isn't funny at all.
3. The poster will avoid posting in response to a valid post and follow 1 or 2 in response to a different one, obviously hiding the fact that the other post would have some legitimacy.

Now these posts would be acceptable if they happened rarely, but happening 100% of the time is ridiculous. These baseless posts and rudeness are only accepted from the WBR members. Other posters would get infracted.

But let me stop walling you guys and get down to business.
WBR is dying and out of a job because you assume that everyone who knows anything is in the WBR already, and yet you aren't accepting any new people. Cape was in his right mind to leave, and many others. I do not blame them for not wanting to be associated.
Pay more mind to outsiders and quit being douchebags to yourselves and others. It's not funny, and you're jeopardizing the project.

Need I say more?

 

[Dantarion]

Eh.

WBR, WBR, WBR, WBR.

Kinda pisses me off that the WBR is the way it is.
Cape isn't helping.
The changelist-less GSH2 doesn't help either, how long will it take for changes to be noticed if no one even knows what they are.
Leaf commented on some raw GSH2 changes and got flamed by cape for "math"
Stuff like that makes me not want to make codes anymore.

 

[Slashy]

I still don't understand most of this, but I do know that anytime I criticize the WBRs choices I am subject to plenty of flames. The only people who respond with any amount of sense are Naucitos,shanus, leafgreen386, and Dantarion.

 

[Liquid Gen]

Its like a min-america, I tell you whut.

you can't honestly say you didn't see this coming from the beginning, though.

 

[Dantarion]

Okay, legit post time.

The only reason I am in the WBR is because I can make codes. The only reason I am in the WBR is because I can make codes. The only reason I am in the WBR is because I can make codes.

What I think is a major split of opinion when it comes to the WBR is the fact that some members of the WBR don't feel like the public should be able to directly interact with the WBR's decision making progress.

For example, I have been developing a "hub" for Brawl+, to help monitor how a change goes from being proposed->discussed->implemented into Brawl+. In my eyes the entire hub would be for the public just as much as the WBR, allowing "JoeBobBrown" to propose a change just as easily as a respected WBR member.

When we had a IRC meeting about the hub being availible, there was overwhelming resistance to letting the public have more than read-only access to it. People were worried that there would be so many BS requests that it would take time to go through them all.

Seriously? Theres like 15 WBR members, and probably 40 people total who post in the Brawl+ related threads. We need EVERYONES input. No secrecy, no undocumented changes, and open discussion. Yes, there are some things that should remain WBR only, but most EVERYTHING should be public.

The WBR shouldn't exist to make decisions about Brawl+ without consulting the public, it should exist as a group that helps pump out a Brawl+ that factors in what the players think is best, along with what the WBR thinks is best. I'm not saying some random guy should get wavedashing in Brawl+ because he wants it, but if some random guy wants to propose that it is added, we should at least give him a chance to present an arguement and have it discussed seperately.

 

[The Cape]

Leaf commented on some raw GSH2 changes and got flamed by cape for "math"

You mean Leaf came into the thread and trolled and tried to make things for accrediation on the set? Thats what he did in the GSH2 thread.

"You are wrong about this"
"I Checked your stuff here"

Way to do it in public in the douchiest manner possible. The **** works right and thats all that is important. The changelist will be accurate when it is released, which is more than can be said for the last WBR set (which was a triumphant failure).

Reason why I left the WBR is because I was pretty much the only person doing anything effective towards fixing Brawl+ and then you have people like Neko and Leaf who just come in and troll about the thread and offer basically nothing of use. The WBR's lack of evolution for the longest time and the ignoring of players is what is killing it, not someone like me.

My methods are bad, but effective. The WBR just works on Melee 2.0 and most admit that RC1 is a complete failure, but dont even make an effort to do anything about it.

In the end, I only care about one thing. Making a good Brawl+ that we can play and enjoy, not buffing my character til he is broken or more fun, or just so that I can play him the way I want to. That is what we have seen in the past and its why its a complete **** hole in the WBR. I dont know why the other members left, but I left knowing that the WBR was slowly delving into a complete **** hole of failure.

The WBR needs to be redone from scratch, plain and simple. It has no credibility now and will continue to not have any when players buff their main characters more than they listen to players.


Edit:
I hate everything about this ****, but I only stick around to make a good game that we can be proud to play and actually enjoy. The attitudes of this forum are disgusting and are what has lead me to be such an arrogant prick.

 

[[TSON]]

Edit:
I hate everything about this ****, but I only stick around to make a good game that we can be proud to play and actually enjoy. The attitudes of this forum are disgusting and are what has lead me to be such an arrogant prick.

I don't understand.

"Hmm, these people are being stupid. Let me act like a prick."


Cape, I know you're a cool guy from our experiences on IRC. The logic here surpasses my intellect. I know for a fact that acting like a ***** will not make things better. What we need, is a common understanding, to move over this time and look back at it, "This is what we don't want to happen again."

EDIT:

The WBR needs to be redone from scratch, plain and simple. It has no credibility now and will continue to not have any when players buff their main characters more than they listen to players.

Agreed. Or at least a policy change that kicks you out if you act like a douche.

 

[yami_sora]

I'd have to agree with you there Silence. It isn't fair that just because I'm not a tourney player that when I post a well written argument and supply it with plenty of reasonable suggestions and facts that I get flamed for not knowing what I'm talking about because I'm not in tournaments and because I'm a lolSonic main. Yes, Sonic got buffed in GSH2, and a lot of that was all the hard work of people like Blank and Bio who put .pacs out there of suggestions that I and other Sonic mains made in the thread. We all tested them out and decided what was good and what was too good, and changed things accordingly. Now we're dealing with a character that wasn't very good, and is now plenty viable. I don't see any other reason to buff Sonic further, and I can say I'm proud of all that hard work that was put into it.

And that was from a bunch of Sonic mains, since all Sonic mains are apparently trolls. I don't really think it's fair to assume that just because someone doesn't go to a tournament they are automatically an idiot and nothing they say holds merit, especially if they have a well written argument. It's also really strange to separate the tournament players from the non-tournament players for Brawl+ because let's face it, it might be one of the more popular Brawl mods, but how many people seriously play this game? There aren't many tournaments that are held for it because it's still trying to get it's footing. What's worse is that right now the ground around it is literally breaking apart. I agree with Silence in that if something isn't done, soon, this project is going to crash and burn. Nobody wants to see that, regardless of being a tourney player or not.

I think this division between tourney and non-tourney players really has to get toned down. I don't see why someone with valid opinions can't be in the WBR just because they aren't consistently in the top 8 in tournaments for a relatively obscure game. That's the biggest problem with this community right now. There's no reason to be an elitist snob or a troll, and this can be said for people in the WBR and people not in the WBR. If someone makes a valid point, honor it, don't ignore it just because of the number of posts they've made on this forum.

The one thing we all agree on is we do not want this game to die. Let's not let that happen.

 

[humble]

If someone makes a valid point, honor it, don't ignore it just because of the number of posts they've made on this forum.

I agree with this point, and thats why I made this account instead of using my older, many more posts account; I want people to look past that and see what I am saying.

 

[Revven]

Though, TSON, I would like to let you know that there are some players that don't know what they are talking about at all when it comes to this game. I am not going to name who they are (they should know) because I'm not a total douche or anything. To be completely blunt, there are going to be people who you can't listen to when it comes to feedback or ideas.

Things just need to be way more laid back like it was months ago, except when that happened, **** didn't get done really.

As someone who is indifferent about this whole thing (as in, "I don't care what people think of me, I know how I am, let's move on") I feel that blaming everyone in the WBR and generalizing like that is ... not helping anything at all either.

Edit: In other words, I'm elitist because of what someone else's claims?

 

[camelot]

If someone makes a valid point, honor it, don't ignore it just because of the number of posts they've made, or because their name is yellow.

Added something.

 

[yami_sora]

Though, TSON, I would like to let you know that there are some players that don't know what they are talking about at all when it comes to this game. I am not going to name who they are (they should know) because I'm not a total douche or anything. To be completely blunt, there are going to be people who you can't listen to when it comes to feedback or ideas.

This is definitely true, but I think that can be said about some people regardless of how many posts they have or their standing in or out of the WBR.

 

[The Cape]

The WBR is an entity, all parts make up the whole.

Meaning that I myself am also personally responsible for the failures of the WBR and I accept that. Thats just how it is.

Sora and TSON: When creating the most recent set I read through all the character forums and discussed the change ideas with my groups and we play tested a good deal of changes. If an idea was included it was because it was a good idea (dont care who it came from). If it wasnt included it was either a bad idea or something completely unneeded for a character (Ness PK Fire from TSON comes as an example; Good idea, but not needed at all on Ness as he is already very very good and PK fire has solid uses if you use it creatively). Then of course posts like this dont help ANYTHING in making the game good: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9109187&postcount=7

Its not a flame, but it goes perfectly into the first post that you had about people complaining and threatening not to play til things go their way. Plenty of other examples, thats just the one that happened to stand out to me.

 

[[TSON]]

Though, TSON, I would like to let you know that there are some players that don't know what they are talking about at all when it comes to this game. I am not going to name who they are (they should know) because I'm not a total douche or anything. To be completely blunt, there are going to be people who you can't listen to when it comes to feedback or ideas.

I never said that you do not have the ability to ignore people who don't make sense.

I am saying that the WBR tends to eat itself out until it's dry, then go lurk for an exploitable post by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about, then cuss them out and write a wall of text explaining how dumbfounded they are at the outrageous fail in their post, then proceed to babble about absolutely nothing (no names, tson, no names).

As someone who is indifferent about this whole thing (as in, "I don't care what people think of me, I know how I am, let's move on") I feel that blaming everyone in the WBR and generalizing like that is ... not helping anything at all either.

OK, let's sort this out now, lol, I had to substitute every instance that I wished to write a person's name with 'WBR'. This is to avoid these persons retaliating personally and to pick at a loophole in the rules where this would not be considered a troll/flaming thread.

Edit: In other words, I'm elitist because of what someone else's claims?

No. Those people who I am talking about know who they are, and you aren't one of them. Ilybabe<3

 

[5ive]

Hmm. I really do see where you're coming from, but I also really think the WBR is trying their best to get the job done.

RC1 was seen as a failure. Why? It was rushed. Why was it rushed? Because people wanted it out soon. This still isn't an excuse; just because some users pushed and pushed for another set, that didn't mean the WBR had to rush the project, rather than to take time and make the best possible release. This is a problem that has gotten better over time, but recently has pretty much wrecked the credibility of the RC1.

GSH2 is in my eyes a success. The fact that Cape reached out to me and Toronto+ for our opinion showed me that he cared for player opinions. The thing is, not enough of these player opinions are in the WBR. I personally think the WBR needs experienced players from a wide range of characters (and regions) to properly get enough play testing done before a major release.

Get more character reps in there.

And this feud within the WBR. What is this, civil war? To back up Cape, I see where he's coming from. The WBR tends to do a lot of things within themselves. I remember when Leaf made Marth extremely "fastfallish", which didn't fit his elegant playstyle from previous builds. It was obviously the wrong thing to add, but was still included in the next recent set. After a couple of people brought this to the attention of Leaf (including myself), he still didn't really do anything to change the physics hastily. I still <3 and appreciate Leaf's work, but this shows that sometimes, bias can get in the way with judgement.

To be more fair, Leaf ended up reverting the changes and later making physics for RC1 which were arguably good. And Neko doesn't deserve all this criticism. He doesn't just pay for bills, he was one of the first active members of the WBR and the Brawl+ community and that certainly deserves credit. He definitely spread Brawl+ throughout his region, and that should be commended.

lolmyopinion

 

[[TSON]]

The WBR is an entity, all parts make up the whole.

Meaning that I myself am also personally responsible for the failures of the WBR and I accept that. Thats just how it is.

Sora and TSON: When creating the most recent set I read through all the character forums and discussed the change ideas with my groups and we play tested a good deal of changes. If an idea was included it was because it was a good idea (dont care who it came from). If it wasnt included it was either a bad idea or something completely unneeded for a character (Ness PK Fire from TSON comes as an example; Good idea, but not needed at all on Ness as he is already very very good and PK fire has solid uses if you use it creatively). Then of course posts like this dont help ANYTHING in making the game good: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=9109187&postcount=7

Its not a flame, but it goes perfectly into the first post that you had about people complaining and threatening not to play til things go their way. Plenty of other examples, thats just the one that happened to stand out to me.

Oh cape, don't single me out like that, it's a cheap shot :s

But anyways, the one post that I'd made there was me on a day where I felt like making a thread like this but did not have the OK yet. I was tired of the up-and-downs of being a Ness main tbh, constantly going up and down. Ness didn't feel fun anymore. But this isn't about me specifically, but I am included in the whole. We are being douchebags to each other. Not only that, but I explain in the OP the situation with these posts.

"And when the people in their right mind see that they are being ignored or trolled, they tend to repeat themselves or get agitated."

(And SDI on PK fire makes it useless, frame data is in the Ness character thread.)

 

[The Cape]

Saw all that, can discuss tactics with you with the current one on AIM or PMs if you like. Love debating.

All parties are at fault, plain and simple. I know I add to the fire and my bad attitude is primarily due to the fact that I have been busting my *** to put out the best Brawl+ I think I can make and then I see people who just make random accusitory arguements without asking why a change was made, or explaining why they feel it was a bad change. I just respond in kind, sick of being polite and respectful to those that never will show me the same courtesy. But when people politely question a change or make a suggestion I show them the same courtesy (and have in the GSH2 thread).

Also, I am a Ness main too, so when I make fun of them I am also making fun of myself /masochist

 

[Dantarion]

I think a change of process on how changes are gathered will help Brawl+

Every change needs to be linked to a discussion of WHY and HOW

 

[[TSON]]

Saw all that, can discuss tactics with you with the current one on AIM or PMs if you like. Love debating.

Alright, just message me whenever.

All parties are at fault, plain and simple. I know I add to the fire and my bad attitude is primarily due to the fact that I have been busting my *** to put out the best Brawl+ I think I can make and then I see people who just make random accusitory arguements without asking why a change was made, or explaining why they feel it was a bad change. I just respond in kind, sick of being polite and respectful to those that never will show me the same courtesy. But when people politely question a change or make a suggestion I show them the same courtesy (and have in the GSH2 thread).

God I wish everyone had the same attitude as you, it would be so easy to fix this mess. You're doing an amazing job. My beef is not with you. It's with the 'WBR' (which as I explained before does not include everyone). And by taking the project from 'them' you've slowed the trolling down a bit.

Also, I am a Ness main too, so when I make fun of them I am also making fun of myself /masochist

lmao

 

[The Cape]

Every change needs to be linked to a discussion of WHY and HOW

With GSH2 almost every change (if not every change) can be gone into detail as to why it was done in relation to the move, the character, and how it affects matchups. If people would only ASK, they might know the answers.

 

[JCaesar]

I'd just like to point out that about 90% of the work and testing that has gone into the Brawl+ builds since RC1 has come from outside the WBR (or from people who have quit since then).

The WBR is kinda like Brawl+'s appendix right now...

Edit: Daaaaamn there were a lot of posts while I typed this.

 

[The Cape]

The WBR is kinda like Brawl+'s appendix right now...

Siggable material there...lol

There are I think 3 WBR members left that contributed to the set.

Over thirty people tested and gave input on the set.

Doesnt add up.

 

[MK26]

So...id just like to agree with TSONO in saying that you guys need to get your **** in order

and btw...who exactly is in the wbr at this point in time? Like I know Cape, JCz, Veril, and i think Giza quit...so...who's still there, and, more importantly, who's still active?

 

[Dantarion]

With GSH2 almost every change (if not every change) can be gone into detail as to why it was done in relation to the move, the character, and how it affects matchups. If people would only ASK, they might know the answers.

This is my problem.

The WBR will say the exact same thing.
"We talked about it, we discussed it with people who know stuff about it, it should be in"

The problem I see with this is that it requires so much effort to find out WHY.
We should just try to get more discussion in a public place, so we can link back to that place so people can see the discussion AS IT HAPPENED, not just the conclusion of the discussion.

I know this doesn't directly apply but its like "The ends justify the means". The changes have all been "discussed" but no record of the actual discussion is available, just people saying "this is why its in"

 

[Isatis]

Let me throw in my rant 2 cents to the thread as well. Not only do I want the WBR to thrive even through the beta and official releases, I seriously think the WBR will...if we make some changes. (I didn't quit solely because of Cape/Veril, but I was really disgusted at how things were working as of late)

I was invited by shanus into the Workshop Back Room based on the fact that, not only was I helping with the brawlplus.net site, but that I was supporting releases through the autoupdater and installer...it was a pretty cool tool considering it was useful when nightly builds were still coming out and it would be very annoying downloading ZIP file after ZIP file and replacing files when this tool could just download files individually if there are new things released. I know I was working on my first semester in college before I got horribly sick and had to withdraw, but it also helped me to get more involved in Brawl+ because I loved the game as well. (Which you just lost, btw) I swear it's not really the same reason as Cape, but I wanted to do something to help.

I wanted to help in the Brawl+ project, because not only was I knowledgeable about my own character, Sonic, but I didn't really want to be 100% useless in the project as well. I was already knowledgeable and in fact I was disappointed in what happened when I saw all of the Brawl+ characters get buffs instead of the people who truly needed it (Sonic being one). When I brought it up in the #BrawlPlus IRC, there were such trollish remarks I couldn't really bare, such as "Sonic is already decent" or "If you buff Sonic, he will be the new 5.0 Ness!"

Such claims I disproved too many times that even in the WBR, the only person I got to co-sign on my Sonic changes were Neko. Come the time Beyond the Limit 2 came around that I really wanted to see what Sonic lacked and what Sonic had that was good for him. On the way back, people I carpooled with even brought up Sonic as lacking and couldn't believe how bad he was...none of them mained Sonic, but even they knew they overlooked some characters. When I brought up what was happening tournament to the WBR IRC and the thread and taking an active step to one of the worst in RC1, I was criticized by the work I had done, and nobody really wanted to put in the changes except, iirc, Neko and eventually Veril at BtL2. Criticized by the people who had not tested this out even though I had made a PSA and tested out this on human players. It wasn't just theory-crafting or anything!

Cape splits from the WBR. Yeah, we've all read it from the GSH1 thread, drama ensues, getting my hand into continuing the discussion elsewhere, that stuff. I start a drive in the WBR for re-organization, trying to learn from our mistakes and hoping to start an IRC meeting to make sure every issue is taken care of, from organization to plans for the future of both the WBR and Brawl+. The meeting is a bust, there's no real argument except for Dantarion being forced to code his hub specifically for the WBR instead of for the public, with Dantarion's idea of the public voting on issues shot down because, well, why is there a WBR? College finals and people being too busy to even contribute to the project lead to some scheduling differences, and I pretty much realized meetings weren't going to work.

Cape asks about my Sonic changes and why I did them, the first I had ever been asked about the Sonic changes. He was interested in them, he knew that Sonic was a bad character without the buffs that me and yami_sora had suggested, as well as feedback from all of the Sonic+ mains in that thread. I was getting somewhere! A lot of this stuff went into GSH2, the current build we have now. Not only did it disprove the people who had never taken the time to test this at all, but nothing but positive results came out of this. Sonic was a truly balanced character with the necessary buffs to make him excel. No, I still think Sonic is in the bottom 10, but it was better than being the worst by a long shot. The more I talked to Cape, the more I realized that while his mode of organization failed, he was listening to me and debating me, and I was showing where he was wrong, and vice versa. The fact that he knew, was ready to prove, and had talked to a legitimate Sonic+ main that knew what he was talking about pretty much had a better way of listening to players rather than the WBR, who thought they knew a lot about the whole roster.

Final few days I was in the WBR...I really started to get annoyed. No word on any administrative involvement, no word on what was happening to the Workshop Back Room, and no word on what was happening with admissions pretty much. The bottom line is that with the current people that we have there, as well as keeping the current system and passing all the work along to Cape who in turn passes back the Brawl+ release to the WBR, is there really a point to being back there anymore?! Everything was so disorganized and secretive even to the guy who tried to do something about it that, this afternoon, I announced in the WBR that I had given up. Not for salvaging the WBR, but given up being the man that wanted to fix the WBR and not only get the tournament players back but recruit new ones as well. Talking to Cape and Veril last night had a hand in me quitting, but the more people give up (Veril and a few others who recently quit as well) the more it becomes to impossibly bring back the WBR it once was, and the more I think Cape might be a bit right -- there may not be a point to the WBR if it's frustrating proving people who are wrong...well, wrong, and may have to restart the WBR all over again, something I really wished had not happened.

 

[Revven]

It's all just me MK, just me. Yup. Just me. Totally just me.

I'm so cool like that.

By this time you've read this post, you'd realize that there's more still so I'm not as cool as you thought.

There are I think 3 WBR members left that contributed to the set.

Over thirty people tested and gave input on the set.

Doesnt add up.

*Sigh* I suppose being a senior in high school doesn't make a good excuse, huh? On top of the impossibility to actually get on at the same time as ANYONE while being busy for school must not be a legit excuse either, huh?

 

[Xzax Kasrani]

I never understood the WBR, some dumb decisions and many other things, but its also very hard at the same time but there are idiots in the BBR like Inui and Overswarm so oh well.

 

[goodoldganon]

The WBR has one major failure and we never recovered from it, but I think that everyone forgets the good work the team put in back there. There were a lot of talented and helpful people back there who gave up a lot of time to get Brawl+ to where it was. The problem was everyone flipped a **** over RC1 and we lost all our credibility. After that many of the members just got burnt out, overwhelmed with school, or frankly didn't have the time. (I'm pretty much all 3)

Look we all know the WBR ****ed up big time recently but I think it's a little unfair to have this huge hate party that seems popular today. With the holidays upcoming we never got around to restructuring but im sure it is on the agenda soon.

I'm tanking a heroic halls of reflection in WoW atm so part 2 coming up.

Either way this topic is kinda dumb and pointless

 

[[TSON]]

No. It came WITH RC1, the problem here is not the credibility but the [EDIT: 'WBR members'] running around trolling and the internal flaming.

There is no hate party, we want 'you' to get 'your' **** together and quit giving us outsiders the middle finger

 

[proteininja]

There have been several shifts in the WBR that have kept this project alive. This is simply another one that needs to happen. So, lets do it.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

*Sigh* I suppose being a senior in high school doesn't make a good excuse, huh? On top of the impossibility to actually get on at the same time as ANYONE while being busy for school must not be a legit excuse either, huh?

Then instead of wasting space and maybe even time, temporarily step down from the WBR. That way you won't get FLAMED and you won't feel bad when **** like this happens.

I'm actually really pissed at both the WBR and Brawl+, as most other people probably are, and yet I haven't visited a lot of tourneys or have as much exp as half of the WBR. And there are others who don't have any tourney exp, but are pissed for the same reasons, or differently, pissed even though they want to contribute, try to, but submit an idea that, because of their knowledge or exp, is completely LUDICRIS. Example: WBR.

I wish I knew what Toronto+ thinks. Because honestly, past their trolling on IRC, they at least seem to be okay with B+, or smart enough, and have enough exp, to submit decent ideas or feedback. Then I look at the GSH thread and get pissed again.

 

[Seagull Joe]

Everytime I read WBR I keep thinking Wolf back room.

Edit: I got a warning and I ****ing did nothing.

 

[CT Chia]

One of the things I dislike most about the WBR is how cliquish they are - most of them generally won't listen to others (even other WBR people) that they don't agree with. Furthermore, so much of the work is done in NOT the WBR, such as chats or the IRC that people that aren't on the IRC and such 24-7 or maybe not visit the WBR in a few days probably won't know whats going on. I make an effort to try and stay involved and work on the project but it's near impossible.

Second, I dislike how open the WBR is. There are so many ppl not in the WBR helping a lot with the project, so these ppl need to be admitted to the WBR. We have been talking about letting new ppl in for months now, but the ppl in charge never got around to it.

 

[Dantarion]

Second, I dislike how open the WBR is. There are so many ppl not in the WBR helping a lot with the project, so these ppl need to be admitted to the WBR..

This is what I have been confused about.
Why do people "need to be in the WBR" in order to help? There may be someone who isn't in the WBR, doesn't need to be in the WBR, but still has a good arguement about making some changes.

 

[ThatGuyYouMightKnow]

This is what I have been confused about.
Why do people "need to be in the WBR" in order to help? There may be someone who isn't in the WBR, doesn't need to be in the WBR, but still has a good arguement about making some changes.

Because, as I've said before,

Not everyone is going to be happy with B+ Gold. No matter what, no matter how good Gold is, no matter how big B+ is, there will be SOMEONE out there to baw about it, srs or not. That continuous bawwwwing is what got us RC1 Ness. If the WBR has a set number of experienced members who, in private, fully discuss and flesh out each change or suggestion/request, these things can be filtered, and bad changes can be PREVENTED, and good changes IMPLEMENTED. Yes, RC1 Ness may have had good buffs in mind, and it was probably the way the buffs were done that made him the way he was, but all of the tears from each bawwwing Ness main added up in the halfass WBR cup, started overflowing, and then, though it shouldn't have pressured them as much as it did, pushed the WBR to rush RC1, overbuff Ness (and some others) and release it as it was. Reforming the WBR and making a not new, but fresh start is a good idea from here.

I'm not so good at long arguements, bear with me, I do want to contribute.


I have a question:

Were these changes, before GSH1 or GSH2, actually, PLAYED before they were released? In a competitive environment?

I'm probably slow on that, but that's a big problem.

 

[[TSON]]

Those who are helping mainly with the project, bringing some opinions not yet heard constantly that can be coded or offer to help with coding and show their capabilities should be in the WBR. But everyone who brings up a valid point should be listened to regardless of their status in my opinion.

 

[Bandit]

Guy, the smashfest you couldn't get a ride to was playing GSH2 before it was released along with at least a half dozen other competitive smash fests that night/weekend from across the country and in the biggest B+ regions.

TSON - At what point did B+ become a democracy? It never has, it never will, and the public needs to just buck up or shut up. I'm not in the back room, and I have opinions turned away and others welcomed.

 

[slimpyman]

Really, All i know is everything seems a bit to easy... perhaps im just going to get together with players around here, and decide the changes that need to be done. No, i wont take any suggestions ;-) im thick skulled. Lol.

Everyone should just understand that this is brawl+ it is (in my opinion) Faster (still needs speed), and more balanced (lolwut). and the ledges need work... COME ON BRAWL, lemme get magnetized unto the LEDGE!!

 

[omegablackmage]

Just my 2 cents:

WBR should be a place where people who have a decent amount of knowledge on game balancing should be voting on changes that everyone suggests. Some people have incredible amounts of character bias or just don't have a knack for seeing what an 'overpowered change' is, or what makes a character really bad. These people make poor candidates for the WBR.

That being said, all people should have some kind of a voice. Im not saying everything everyone suggests needs to be implemented, but if enough logic is presented behind an argument that is brought up, why not discuss it in the back room and vote on it?

Overall:

Get people out of the WBR that have too much bias, troll people too much, shoot others ideas down, don't have a gift for balancing games, or just overall don't have the team mentality to get **** done.

 

[CT Chia]

correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't releasing these test sets (not rc's) to the public supposed to b the testing that was just mentioned?