Waveshining in PM and Melee

reportingsfnoobs

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To anyone who knows Melee and PM Falco well -- is there a difference when doing waveshines in PM and Melee? I started taking Melee seriously last night after learning tech skills in PM for almost a year (more user friendly, that's why), and it's difficult to waveshine.

Doing wavedashes in PM is so easy, to the point that I just surf wavedash, but it's harder to perform surf wavedashes and waveshines in Melee.

Waveshines are especially hard for me. After I shine someone, I immediately press the inputs for wavedashing, but it doesn't come out. I only get it every so often.

I tried playing Melee on a different TV last night, and holy crap did the game feel heavy (guessing that's how Melee feels). It's an old Sanyo TV. It's cube-shaped, so not sure if that's a CRT TV or not. I'm guessing it is since there was hardly any delay as compared to playning on my LCD TV.

So is it my TV, or is there an actual difference in waveshining between the two games?

EDIT: Oh, and it's hard as fudge to laser back and forth in Melee as compared to PM. Probably need to learn his laser game again.
 
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Lizalfos

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Unless you are one frame sensitive it is your TV. There is a 1 frame physics delay in PM because of Brawl. I actually find waveshining in Melee easier.

CRTs are the Box TVs it is pretty easy to tell. If it isn't Flat almost 100% it is crt.
 
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reportingsfnoobs

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Unless you are one frame sensitive it is your TV. There is a 1 frame physics delay in PM because of Brawl. I actually find waveshining in Melee easier.

CRTs are the Box TVs it is pretty easy to tell. If it isn't Flat almost 100% it is crt.
I'm doing more practice right now. I had to wait a little longer before wavedashing after shine, but it still seems long. People in videos instantly wavedash after doing a shine, but I still can barely get it. I don't think it's the 1-frame delay, though. If I wait a little bit, Falco gets stuck in his shine. I feel like I have to press harder, not literally, but like letting buttons go and immediately doing the next inputs.

I guess I'm using a CRT, then. It's small, but big enough to play without squinting. Are there frame differences when using different CRTs? Maybe it is my TV. I don't know why I'm having such a hard time when it's so easy in PM.

Another thing I had hard time doing was following up after throws, like b-throw to b-throw chaingrabs (test). This was especially easy in PM. After I do a b-throw in Melee, I try to immediately run. This fails and results in Falco walking or staying put instead. Because of him staying put for so long, it's hard for me to follow up after any throws.
 

reportingsfnoobs

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Did some practice and found that it's easier to shine wavedash forward than it is to wavedash backwards. I noticed that Falco has this turnaround animation when you shine. I think that's what's messing me up when I try to wavedash backwards. Falco doesn't do the turnaround animation in PM (at least not that easily).
 
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Lizalfos

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I'm doing more practice right now. I had to wait a little longer before wavedashing after shine, but it still seems long. People in videos instantly wavedash after doing a shine, but I still can barely get it. I don't think it's the 1-frame delay, though. If I wait a little bit, Falco gets stuck in his shine. I feel like I have to press harder, not literally, but like letting buttons go and immediately doing the next inputs.

I guess I'm using a CRT, then. It's small, but big enough to play without squinting. Are there frame differences when using different CRTs? Maybe it is my TV. I don't know why I'm having such a hard time when it's so easy in PM.

Another thing I had hard time doing was following up after throws, like b-throw to b-throw chaingrabs (test). This was especially easy in PM. After I do a b-throw in Melee, I try to immediately run. This fails and results in Falco walking or staying put instead. Because of him staying put for so long, it's hard for me to follow up after any throws.
CRT is what you want to always use because it has the least delay. When using an HDTV the television takes longer to display the image, so in the worst instances you are pressing inputs a half second or more before the context for that input is shown on screen (ie you shine during jump squat on an HDTV because in the actual game Falco has already finished jumpsquat.) The reason for you having trouble with Dash inputs is because in Melee the threshhold for dashing is basically alll the way at the edge, so you should probably make more of an effort to make sure you are hitting the edge.

idk about the turnaround animation, nobody has ever said anything about it locking you in, I always thought it was instant but it's a good theory.
 
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reportingsfnoobs

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CRT is what you want to always use because it has the least delay. When using an HDTV the television takes longer to display the image, so in the worst instances you are pressing inputs a half second or more before the context for that input is shown on screen (ie you shine during jump squat on an HDTV because in the actual game Falco has already finished jumpsquat.) The reason for you having trouble with Dash inputs is because in Melee the threshhold for dashing is basically alll the way at the edge, so you should probably make more of an effort to make sure you are hitting the edge.

idk about the turnaround animation, nobody has ever said anything about it locking you in, I always thought it was instant but it's a good theory.
Yeah, I looked it up (someone else says it here). What's messing me up from wavedashing backwards is that I try to jump during the turnaround animation.

Are you still able to wavedash backwards easily after doing a shine on someone? Even though I know this now, it's still a little difficult.
 

reportingsfnoobs

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By the way, is it normal to have lag after doing a throw with Falco? Maybe it's not my TV at all, but it's just how Melee is. Like right when I throw someone, it takes a little time before I can run. If I try to do it too soon, I either stay still or walk slowly instead.
 

Lizalfos

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It should be the same. I think you just need to stick with the CRT. The HDTV probably put your timing off. That is the community standard.
 

YourOpinionIs

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Kind of a necro but he's right, turnaround cancelling is quicker in PM so you actually need to be good at wavedashing back without turning around if you want fast waveshines backwards
 
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