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Wavedash Games Announces Icons: Combat Arena

Discussion in 'News' started by ShadesSSB, Jul 16, 2017 at 9:31 PM.

Blaise "Shades" Camacho, Jul 16, 2017 at 9:31 PM
  1. ShadesSSB

    ShadesSSB
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    Smash Apprentice

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    Pine Bush, New York
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    KipShades
    [​IMG]

    After more than a year of buildup, Wavedash Games has announced Icons: Combat Arena, an upcoming platform fighter that draws influence from both the Super Smash Bros. series and traditional fighting games.



    The announcement came with a teaser video showing off a portion of the game's cast, including the newly-announced Zhurong. A gameplay trailer was also released shortly before top 8 for Super Smash Bros. for Wii U at EVO 2017.



    The gameplay trailer shows off the five characters revealed thus far, as well as several of the game's stages. Many aspects - such as the stage layouts and several of the attacks seen so far - are obviously drawn from the Super Smash Bros. games, but others, such as Raymer's aimed shot and Xana's lunging attack, are completely new.

    Wavedash Games will also be holding an AMA on /r/smashbros at 12 PM PDT on July 17th. Their lead designers, artists, and programmers will be answering questions from fans about the Icons and its development.

    You can learn more about Icons: Combat Arena here.
     
    Plebiscuit, krvntn, Rᴏb and 3 others like this.
Editor
Shades is a game design student and aspiring Smash 4 player from upstate New York. When he isn't studying, he's active in the Hudson Valley fighting game scene and working as a social media assistant for Circa eSports. From his passion for game design to his involvement in the Smash community, his love of gaming and thirst for knowledge have lead him towards many pursuits in life.
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Comments

Discussion in 'News' started by ShadesSSB, Jul 16, 2017 at 9:31 PM.

    1. Magnanimous One
      Magnanimous One
      They showed this off way too soon. It is hard to get the masses excited over a demo reel whose game assets are, at best, only half developed.
    2. Space Stranger
      Space Stranger
      Great value Pharah performing a Falcon Punch was not what I expected to see when I clicked this trailer.
    3. Opossum
      Opossum
      That utterly shameless Marth clone though.


      This looks way too rough. I get it's pre-alpha, but damn. You should put your best foot forward for the initial reveal. First impressions are hard to ignore, and this doesn't look very good from an artistic or creative standpoint.
    4. Rocket Raccoon
      Rocket Raccoon
      WE GAVE UP PROJECT M FOR THIS?
    5. Check5
      Check5
      For real, they even have the Ken combo
    6. Swampasaur
      Swampasaur
      Development team, if you are reading this...

      I know you love Melee. I do too, but when the world heard you were making your own game, we wanted to see what such a talented group could do.

      These characters, they're Smash characters at a first glance. And a second glance. And a third glance. There seems to be very little creativity here. Sure there are new designs (which look okay honestly) but these are not based off of characters, they are the characters.

      Fox, Marth, and Falcon all have amazing gameplay in Melee but you need to move past that if you want this game to be treated seriously at all.

      You have to branch out and move away from Melee. Stay inspired by it, use it as a guide, but don't copy it. I mean I saw a Ken combo for goodness sake. That isn't hype here. It's disappointing.

      You have to show that you can make something new, because at this point, this seems more like a Smash mod then Project M does. Project M made an identity for itself really fast with the new takes on characters and the new moveset ideas and the new stage ideas.

      Where is that creativity in this? If it's there, please show us, because I can't see it.
      Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 1:49 AM
    7. lordvaati
      lordvaati
      Yeah, gotta agree with the majoity here-it looks REALLY rough so far(like, early KOF14 rough) and the characters look too much 1:1 to the Smash cast. It's kind of a downer, especially when compared to something like Rivals of Aether with it's design, or even the died far too young Air Dash Online.

      It being Free-To Play is a plus(probably using a KI model I assume) and I would certainly be down for possibly being in the beta. too bad I will miss the Q&A because of work though.
      CursedKaiju likes this.
    8. shinhed-echi
      shinhed-echi
      Well, I'm happy we're getting a successor of Project M. I agree they could have waited a bit more until it looked a bit more polished before showing it.

      As for the characters/movesets, I'm completely torn:

      1.- Porting movesets over is fine as long as we at least get ones we don't see in nearly every Melee match. But at least, port over the more underused ones, and make them GOOD.

      2.- I want to see more original stuff (like the gunman character). Or at least creative hybrids like RoA did for the most part.

      and

      3.- Screw originality, I'm hoping they take some movesets from other smash clones, such as TMNT:Smash Up, Punch Time Explosion, and Dream Mix TV, and unite them under one game. A "Mash of Smash clones" of sorts.

      or

      4.- A mishmash of all of the above.
    9. masterpad
      masterpad
      i don't agree at all, the game and the characters look fresh, the bulky gree alien, the little human goat, the shotter that can deflet his beam on surface are orriginal, don't listen to all this biased people the world doesn't start and end on melee. It's preAlpha Great job devteam.
      - long live to PM and ICONS : Combat Arena
      Last edited: Jul 17, 2017 at 4:51 AM
    10. LovinMitts
      LovinMitts
      Extremely contrived. Very little creativity to be seen. We want a game that's LIKE Melee, we don't want a 1:1 Melee clone with that ugly Overwatch knockoff art style.

      I've come up with more inspired character concepts in my sleep.
    11. Lindow
      Lindow
      They've gone down with the whole "characters are functions" bull**** that some MvC:I guys stated in regards to Magneto's stuff being on other characters.

      "Icons" is gonna turn out to be a very ironic name. It's Aiden Pearce's "Iconic" hat all over again.

      No-one's being bias, they're just being realistic about this.
      I wanted to give this a chance earlier but looking at it over and over I can't. It's a budget Melee/PM clone (right down to the movesets and having the Ken combo) without the draw of being a crossover of my favourite characters.

      It's obvious who they're going for but that's a small crowd.

      [​IMG]
    12. Almost?
      Almost?
      :colorful:Melee's still better :colorful:
      Zodiacx10 likes this.
    13. Rocket Raccoon
      Rocket Raccoon
      They invested $6 million to this. Must be one hell of a big, small crowd.
      Red Hunter Z likes this.
    14. Lindow
      Lindow
      Competitive players are always going to be a small crowd for any fighting game.
      That's just reality.
      It just so happens that the Melee/PM crowd, who this is for, is a very dedicated one.

      And for $6 million I'd expect better on the first gameplay footage tbh.

      [​IMG]
      Red Hunter Z likes this.
    15. praline
      praline
      Good thing it's ftp cause I wouldn't pay for this.
    16. Rocket Raccoon
      Rocket Raccoon
      Microtransactions boi.
      Gotta pay someone to rip off Overwatch...
      Red Hunter Z likes this.
    17. praline
      praline
      You don't have to spend money though.
    18. N3ON
      N3ON
      Think I would've rather had Lyn, Knuckles, Isaac and Sami...
    19. Opossum
      Opossum
      Hey, maybe if we're lucky, we'll get Definitely Not Isaac using Isaac's PM Moveset. That's what people want, right?


      That hurt to type.
      LovinMitts, Red Hunter Z and Lindow like this.
    20. young grasshopper
      young grasshopper
      Everyone's pointing out how similar the characters are to the melee characters, but really we've only seen a few moves from a few characters. Of course things like the Falcon Punch and the Ken Combo will make it into the game, they're huge staples of Melee. However, I do think it probably would have been smarter for Wavedash to avoid showing such early content. Definitely not smart from a PR perspective. Honestly, I would've been hyped if they just showed some sort of anime/cartoonish promotional video displaying some of the characters. If they had to show gameplay, I think a bit more emphasis on the stuff that sets them apart from melee would have been better than the stuff that makes them similar to melee. For me, though, the thing that bothered me the most was that the animations for each attack were hard to distinguish. In every smash game so far, and also in Rivals of Aether, the attacks can be seen very clearly, even at a fast pace. I don't know if it was the camera angle, or the character models, or whatever, but I just couldn't really follow with the attacks. That said, this is still early early development, and Wavedash Games still has a chance to improve (which I hope they do, because the world could use some more high-quality platform fighters)
      Metalex and Omar_25 like this.
    21. JayTheUnseen
      JayTheUnseen
      Kienan Lafferty working with the former Project M devs?

      YES PLEASE
    22. GeflGabe
      GeflGabe
      The characters gave me an indefinite Overwatch vibe TBH.
      Metalex and Rocket Raccoon like this.
    23. ShadesSSB
      ShadesSSB
      Their lead art director worked on Overwatch back when it was still Project Titan, so that's likely a factor.
      GeflGabe likes this.
    24. Xeno610
      Xeno610
      I feel incredibly confused by this game's own identity.
      The game plays like Melee (down to the Ken combo and some moves from Marth in one character, and another character looks like Melee Ganondorf with that down air and forward air), but it isn't Melee. The game looks like Overwatch with its mishmash of heroes and even its art style, but the characters don't seem that appealing...

      I wish the developers the best of luck, but it just looks a little bland in my eyes. Maybe we'll see some cleaning up?
    25. Opossum
      Opossum
      So I've been following their AMA (even got one of my questions answered) and also came upon this answer. And in the end, I'm left wondering why THIS wasn't shown in the trailer. This seems pretty neat.

      It doesn't help that Raymer is so far their most unique and interesting character, and yet he has all of maybe three seconds of trailer footage.
    26. TeddyBearYoshi
      TeddyBearYoshi
      More people definitely wanted the characters for being, well, the characters than the moveset. Knuckles and Lyn are super fun and all but the hype was mostly centered around the characters themselves.

      A lot of the reason I'm uninterested in this sad Melee clone, at least Rivals of Aether is unique enough and has Ori + whatever crossover characters they add in the future.
    27. GunBuster
      GunBuster
      I feel kind of bad for the devs because so many people are completely missing the point of "pre-alpha" footage here. these are all clearly placeholder animations, sfx and so on, and should be taken as little more than a proof of concept. I for one would have welcomed what was essentially an inheritor of the unique aspects and work that was put into Project: M, but I definitely feel that they''ve "played their hand" way too early here, so to say.

      I'm also of the opinion that the name and logo are pretty uninspired, and thoroughly wish that they hadn't gone with the sterile Blizzard/LoL/Chinese Bootleg Knockoff F2P artstyle since the initial character reveals.

      they really shot themselves in the foot with this.
      maybe I'll still pay attention to it if they decide to port whatever Project: M's Lyn was supposed to be without making (them) look horrendous.
    28. StarshipGroove
      StarshipGroove
      Strong Bad and Warchamp7 were the worst devs working on PM and now they're working on this generic Melee clone wanna be with socially progressive characters.

      Snore.

      Maybe this time they'll get that people don't want to play a Melee clone when they have Melee.
      Last edited: Jul 18, 2017 at 11:32 AM
      Bob and GunBuster like this.
    29. ridemyboat
      ridemyboat
      Looks cool! Wonder how ledge works.
    30. kupo15
      kupo15
      I disagree with this. 6 million dollars and several years of development says otherwise that this isn't just a proof of concept. I doubt this is even pre-alpha footage as well and probably its purposely labeled as such in case they got a negative reaction. Why would you show off and market your game on the biggest fighting game stage there is using super early proof of concept? It doesn't make sense. Not to mention the fact that the "beta" is being released in a few short months. Not that much is going to change within that time frame...we aren't suddenly going to get a brand new change of direction in that short of time.

      They clearly thought that the game showcased their vision for the game since they teased footage for a year and revealed at EVO. If this really is early footage like 3+ year old build of the game then that was a very foolish move.

      This is what the game is going to be, I don't see how you can spin it any other way. I feel bad they thought their game was better than they thought it was. I can imagine its a rough time for them right now...
      Last edited: Jul 18, 2017 at 5:37 PM
      Metalex, Bob and schmooblidon like this.
    31. GunBuster
      GunBuster
      Good points, and I agree if this Is footage from an earlier build it makes no sense to use it instead of "putting their best foot forward" with something showcasing much more competent work. Still, I lose nothing from giving the benefit of the doubt (while remaining cautious) at this stage, so it's not exactly a dealbreaker just yet.
      Metalex and kupo15 like this.
    32. Kaze Arashi
      Kaze Arashi
      I'll keep my PM CC. While watching, I realized every character looked and acted like another character, most notably Fox, Marth and I think Ganondorf.
    33. Bob
      Bob
      This is going to fail. All of these "Platform Fighters" (read: Smash Bros. ripoffs) think that they can instantly achieve the success that Smash did by throwing in some combos and wavedashing, but they are missing the point;

      Smash isn't popular because of wavedashing, it isn't even popular because of gameplay or it's competitive scene. It's popular due to it's characters, popular and meaningful characters that have history and have existed for generations. Characters that we have grown to love.

      Wavedash Games and Rivals of Aether simply insert a bunch of random indie-looking characters into their game and add wavedashing and they expect it to sell. Who are these characters? What are their personalities and experiences? Why should we care? Including "Kidd" and other similar ripoffs isn't bad in itself, but the creators must establish these characters first. Give Kidd a game and an elaborate series, and continue this with the other characters, then merge them together for a cross-franchise game. Give us a reason to care by establishing characters we can care for.

      The problem here is that these companies are run by a bunch of amateurs who are all trying to achieve instant success. Nobody knows their place; Everybody thinks that they're Reggie Fils-Aime or Tatsumi Kimishima, and that the world bends to their will; The first step to becoming somebody is to acknowledge that you're nobody.

      I know these things because I am an entrepreneur (don't ask me for my name), and I want to help aspiring entrepreneurs to be successful, and not to succumb to the fate of the cursed "small businesses" or "'independent' companies". Wavedash Games messed up, but you don't have to make the same mistake.

      Also, as a protip: Please don't put "Games" in your name. Just don't.
      Angelglory likes this.
    34. Ryu Myuutsu
      Ryu Myuutsu
      Out of curiosity, why do you think putting "Games" in your name is a bad idea?
    35. Bob
      Bob
      Inserting specifiers into a company name detracts from the title (eg: Nintendo Games) and creates a hobbyist/indie vibe. Since this is so common among new and "independent" businesses, inserting them makes your company seem as part of the "void", or vacuum. In addition to creating an Independent vibe, "Games" is also a specifier that is strongly associated with Small Businesses--Neither of which have good connotations. Small Businesses and Independents are typically viewed as individuals with whom others have some camaraderie with, while Larger Corporations (such as Nintendo, Microsoft, etc.) are viewed simply as "corporations". People view Larger Corporations in a generally higher esteem, whereas they view Independents as equals. Many people feel some form of elevation upon purchasing a product from a Large Company--of any kind (bragging over shoes and games is common among adolescents), while others may have feelings of condescension or entitlement from purchasing a product from someone they view as equal. As people begin to feel they have a "closer" relationship with you, the individual, they begin to request more for less, under the assumptions that they have a greater degree of control.

      I myself have noticed this; back when I made the novice mistake of marketing directly, I got little business and no progress, however, after learning the game and talking through my company, I noticed immediate and consistent improvements in both sales and customer satisfaction.

      That's the main point; Mystification. Adding "Games" not only removes this important quality, but it also consigns the company into the void, filled with countless others who have done the same.

      It also shows indecisiveness, or, as I call it "Indiecisiveness", subconsciously, it creates the vibe that the creator themselves are unaware of their goals, and include "Games" as a form of reaffirmation. In a world with increasingly strict consumers, being anything short of perfect is unacceptable. This is also bad for merchandising; what if a company does see some potential in their products and decide the make toys of them? completely disregarding their designs, seeing "Wavedash", let alone "Wavedash Games" imprinted on the box would probably incur more giggles than actual sales.

      Simply not including "Games" isn't the sole solution, however. The name itself must also be satisfactory, whether it be meaningful (Nintendo, Microsoft), or memorable (Nintendo, Microsoft, Apple, Facebook, Twitter, Snapchat, etc).

      To reiterate and compliment my past points, if you want to rival Nintendo and similar companies in success, your primary goal should be to distance yourself as an individual from your company as far as possible. I'd advise hiding your name for as long as needed, avoiding interviews at all costs until you're successful, and prohibiting (or strongly advising against) staff or relatives from mentioning your name or anything about you until you've reached a level of success to where it will no longer affect you. I'd advise asking them to deflect the question rather than responding with refusal, as you want to appear "mysterious", not "hostile".

      Initiating with 3D Games is also a good way to establish yourself on the positive, as most indies use 2D for either aesthetic or financial reasons, creating an immediate distinction which can be used to propel you to greater levels of success. If you really want to be extravagant, make a custom engine as well (assuming, of course, these are all of quality), or at least use one of the most sophisticated ones (Smash runs on Havok, I believe).

      Ultimately, it depends on the level of success one wants to achieve, some people may prefer to live a standard middle-class life, complete with the camaraderie that comes with Small Businesses. Others, however, may aspire to rival or even eclipse the success of those like Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg. Neither one is wrong, just different.

      tl;dr - Adding specifiers (in particular Games) shows uncertainty and creates the appearance of the creator being a Small/Independent business, which aren't taken very seriously in the world. Perhaps Bandai Namco Entertainment is an exception, but that's only because they are an established company of which existed at the dawn of video games. Prior exclusivity and being established gives these companies automatic advantages, however it's not impossible to rival them even today if you have the necessary knowledge and skills.
      Metalex, kupo15 and Magnanimous One like this.

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