Watching Little Boys: A Lucas Video Thread

[MysteryRevengerson]

I don't know if he told you, but Arcadia trains with Milkman who mains Lucas, so he knows the MU pretty well. There's not much to go off with here besides the fact that you should work on mixing up how you get on the field (With Magnet after ledge hop, drop off double jump forward Fair so on so forth) I've played against him myself and he definitely has a good footing in the MU, Marth just has to be fought in an interesting way.

 

[Inserio]

Yeah he mentioned that. I'm sure that didn't help my case. Either way, maybe the pressure or lack of sleep was getting to me; I would've enjoyed a match that was fully played out instead of being cut so short by my own hand.

Thanks, yeah maybe the high fairs were a bad option...

 

[210stuna]

So someone tell me why a double jump is "necessary" / better than a short hop when using PK Freeze?
Whether you are short hoping or double jumping the point is to get the freeze shot to come out very close to the ground with minimal lag to where it looks like they come from his feet with no DBZ animation?

I took a video of it in regular motion with double jump and one in slow motion with a short hop and they seem the same in which you can move upon landing.
I'll post the video later but I'd like to address this first before hand @NeonApophis and @anyone

 

[_slydz]

Just some frame data stuff:
The lowest possible (closest to the ground) DJC PKF is done by jumping, double jumping after 6 frames, then using forward-b after another 6 frames. This means you begin the PKF on the 12th frame after the initial jump. The lowest possible short hop PKF is done by using forward-b on the 18th frame after jumping. So when done perfectly, you save a 10th of a second getting the attack to come out if you DJC as opposed to if you short hop. You can PKF earlier than the 18th frame of the short hop to save a couple frames, but the attack won't travel as far or be as close to the ground.

Also, the timing for non-perfect DJC and short hop PKF's are different. For DJC, the attack still comes out if your input is too late. For short hop, it still comes out if your input is too early. And because in either case the attack won't get more range than normal if your input is off by more than a couple frames, your latest possible DJC PKF is still going to be faster than your earliest possible short hop PKF.

tl;dr It's faster to DJC if you want to get the effect of having the attack travel farther than a normal aerial PKF.

However, I would definitely suggest using short hop PKF and knowing how to time it so the attack is as low as possible. Double jumps don't retain your momentum as well as a short hop, and b-reverses are a thing, so short hop PKF's are a pretty useful movement technique imo.

 

[210stuna]

Just some frame data stuff:
The lowest possible (closest to the ground) DJC PKF is done by jumping, double jumping after 6 frames, then using forward-b after another 6 frames. This means you begin the PKF on the 12th frame after the initial jump. The lowest possible short hop PKF is done by using forward-b on the 18th frame after jumping. So when done perfectly, you save a 10th of a second getting the attack to come out if you DJC as opposed to if you short hop. You can PKF earlier than the 18th frame of the short hop to save a couple frames, but the attack won't travel as far or be as close to the ground.

Also, the timing for non-perfect DJC and short hop PKF's are different. For DJC, the attack still comes out if your input is too late. For short hop, it still comes out if your input is too early. And because in either case the attack won't get more range than normal if your input is off by more than a couple frames, your latest possible DJC PKF is still going to be faster than your earliest possible short hop PKF.

tl;dr It's faster to DJC if you want to get the effect of having the attack travel farther than a normal aerial PKF.

However, I would definitely suggest using short hop PKF and knowing how to time it so the attack is as low as possible. Double jumps don't retain your momentum as well as a short hop, and b-reverses are a thing, so short hop PKF's are a pretty useful movement technique imo.

This is such a golden 7th post from you, I will have to keep this mind. I also did notice the length difference with PKF in the air and on the ground when testing this. I will still post the video later when I can, but thank you regardless. Do you mind if I post this on a Facebook comment?

 

[_slydz]

Do you mind if I post this on a Facebook comment?

Go for it

 

[nkd]

I'd appreciate critique on a couple of vids:

vs Ivy at 23:00 http://www.twitch.tv/projectmanchester/b/517247065

vs Bowser at 00:00 http://www.twitch.tv/projectmanchester/b/517258704

I had very little matchup experience with either of these characters so feel free to point out v obvious stuff. I'd preface that saying I know to dj pkf instead of short hopping it, but I wasn't getting it consistently enough so I just fell back on short hopping.

 

[Inserio]

I play against an Ivy frequently, so here's my two cents. DJC PKF spamming works pretty well; it also is helpful in order to make sure that the freeze doesn't go above him. Dthrow/Dair into upsmash is almost never gonna hit at higher percentages, so just try to chain the combo as much as you can (sometimes I utilize a full hop Dair instead of Uair to send them back down for further ground comboing, or just chain SHFFL'd Dairs until they tech or I miss). Lastly, I abuse the hell out of shield grab against Ivy; it's fantastic for getting the momentum back in your favor.

 

[BryE]

Got some recent matches of my Lucas.


vs Dr. Yogi

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o6RpvY3g3Q (Combo at 1st stock)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1mfxHlBdHw

vs Killanator

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIGqYFNYJb4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HEkGyAIiKk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4trIqJiA1Q
vs Sneak

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sXOmhKiC3Y



idk what I was doing against Sneak. I played so poorly and I pretty much derped the entire match.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

Beginning to implement DJC with Tap Jump on.

Me vs Nintendude (GnW) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i4FgE68JEA
Me vs Omni (Fox) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjDjPer7Bis

 

[Returnofthemac]

Really Nice stuff Yars. The DACUS looks so clean when you do it. I noticed that you didn't use a lot of up airs against GnW. I love using DJC u air chains at low mid percents into bair, is there a reason that you used less up airs in general or DJC up airs? Im a very new lucas player and just wanted to see your theory behind the options you chose in the match.

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

You're right, I SHOULD'VE used more Uairs, the main thing is that GnW is kinda floaty so it's tougher to keep things going off Uairs. Uair is actually hella good, go and watch other players like Neon or Oracle for good move usage, I'm still very much a scrub with Lucas, haha.

 

[210stuna]

@Neo or anyone at his caliber

How do you use Magnet in the air to move drastically left or right suddenly?
I'm aware of using a jumps momentum with a reversed down B, but I can never move at the speed and distance that of Neo's in his last few videos awhile back.

How is it done?

 

[Dron]

are you talking about magnet pulling?

all you have to do is run forward, full hop with your forward momentum, shoot a PK freeze at the apex of the jump, and reverse magnet as soon as the PKF ends

you can also B-reverse magnet rather than normal reverse magnet, and this will make you shoot back in the direction that you started rather than shoot forward

 

[210stuna]

Explain.

I do not believe a full PKF shoots out when Neo does it.

Are you saying that both of these will yield the same results if done correctly?

 

[_slydz]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ISPNXuhWbQ#t=41

If this is what you're talking about, it's a magnet pull just like Dron described

 

[210stuna]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ISPNXuhWbQ#t=41

If this is what you're talking about, it's a magnet pull just like Dron described

I see it, I understand.

Thank you.

 

[210stuna]

Sorry for the double post

Here are some Lucas GF and WF sets with Pink Fresh < 3

Simply amazing

 

[Plasma]

Here's some of my matches. Sorry for the twitch archives but it's all I have for now.

Rat (Winners Bracket) http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/528877301?t=144m
5-1 http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/528877301?t=262m
Sago http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/528877301?t=274m
Rat (Losers Bracket) http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/528877301?t=295m Game 1 only
Lazarond http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/528877301?t=320m
Kels http://www.twitch.tv/windycitysmash/b/528877301?t=333m

 

[Sinz]

I would really like some critiquing on my play at a tournament today.

http://www.twitch.tv/aisight/b/529992733

it starts at 1 : 54 : 46

Sinz (Lucas) vs Prinny (Snake) 1 : 54
Sinz (Lucas) vs qRaq (Luigi / Ivy) 2 : 08
Sinz (Lucas) vs Jack(Wolf/MK) 2 : 21

I would really like help on the MK match up. I have no ****ing clue what to do.

I would like general advice as well. I feel like these matches were a lot closer than they should have been.

 

[210stuna]

What could have Pink done better in the MU?

 

[broliftic]

Beginning to implement DJC with Tap Jump on.

Me vs Nintendude (GnW) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5i4FgE68JEA
Me vs Omni (Fox) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjDjPer7Bis

How in the world do you do those heavenly dacuses? Do you have like a special controller config?

 

[MysteryRevengerson]

I have modified controls to make inputting it easier. By using an Attack Button (By default, A) instead of Grab you have another Frame of lenience. You also don't do Dash Grab on accident if you mess up

I have R set to Attack personally.

 

[broliftic]

What could have Pink done better in the MU?

I'm not a professional in any sense, but Pink whiffed WAYY too many edgeguards with bair that should've come pretty easily. He didn't capitalize on a lot of combos he started in neutral, but I guess it's hard to blame him when Samus has something as nuts as that nair. And what was up with that random PK Thunder?

The one time he rolled in the whole match he got destroyed straight afterward. It sucks because Brawl players are conditioned to roll and experienced Melee vets like Esam know how to wreck opponents who do just that. In general though I was for the most part very impressed with how he avoided Samus's physical projectiles, those give me headaches when I play against my locals.

 

[jpp]

I would appreciate some critique on my Lucas play against my training partner.
JP(Lucas) Vs. PKFuzzy(Roy) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BcJ6Ca4T_BQ&list=HL1401222359&feature=mh_lolz

 

[Lukingordex]

I got 3rd in a tourney 1 week ago, I would like some advice.

Stream: http://www.twitch.tv/x_revolution/b/532053189

My sets that got streamed:
Winners Bracket:
5:57:00 -> vs Ike
6:29:00 -> vs Link

Losers Bracket:
8:45:00 -> vs Cap.Falcon/Mario
8:54:00 -> vs Squirtle
9:06:00 -> VS Charizard (LF)

 

[Muck]

How in the world do you do those heavenly dacuses? Do you have like a special controller config?

No its dash attack with c stick down> up and z

 

[Muck]

Can I get critiques on my lucas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG2SEhrryfc&index=6&list=PLmOE4XgHqBjp-aOUyUo7N6lVGwGgST-62
I'm lore

 

[Kipcom]

Can I get critiques on my lucas
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG2SEhrryfc&index=6&list=PLmOE4XgHqBjp-aOUyUo7N6lVGwGgST-62
I'm lore

At some points in the video it felt as if you were just throwing out random grabs and attacks that missed for the most part. You gotta work on confirming your hits more, because you got punished for not doing it a few times. Sometimes you would get in a hit with Magnet, but then you sort of just give up on trying to follow up on it. I also noticed that a couple times, you were doing the charge while your opponent was near you or on stage. Personally, The only times I commit to a charge is when I knock them off stage, take a stock off of them, or if I die, I'll do the charge immediately (a lot of people think they can punish this, but you can just press B for a burst to get them off of you during your invincibility frames). I would also suggest not using PK Thunder to recover, unless they're hanging on the ledge ready to let go of it and edge guard your tether. I don't really see you utilizing double jump cancelled attacks/PK Freezes, so I would make sure to work on those as well. Overall, it just seemed like Veishi was in total control of the match and was in your face constantly. Try not to get pressured into staying in one spot in your shield, either. On a final note, I also think that maybe just work on your movement as well. More swift movements to throw off your opponent and not seem as predictable.

 

[Muck]

At some points in the video it felt as if you were just throwing out random grabs and attacks that missed for the most part. You gotta work on confirming your hits more, because you got punished for not doing it a few times. Sometimes you would get in a hit with Magnet, but then you sort of just give up on trying to follow up on it. I also noticed that a couple times, you were doing the charge while your opponent was near you or on stage. Personally, The only times I commit to a charge is when I knock them off stage, take a stock off of them, or if I die, I'll do the charge immediately (a lot of people think they can punish this, but you can just press B for a burst to get them off of you during your invincibility frames). I would also suggest not using PK Thunder to recover, unless they're hanging on the ledge ready to let go of it and edge guard your tether. I don't really see you utilizing double jump cancelled attacks/PK Freezes, so I would make sure to work on those as well. Overall, it just seemed like Veishi was in total control of the match and was in your face constantly. Try not to get pressured into staying in one spot in your shield, either. On a final note, I also think that maybe just work on your movement as well. More swift movements to throw off your opponent and not seem as predictable.

Thanks man

 

[Clade]

Can you guys give me some advise?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LYsjkr5ktg

The first 3 stocks worked really well but then I just got outplayed and I have no idea why. When I watch it I can see his mindgames like his shield pressure to reverse grab and stuff like that but I didnt get a approach and I wasnt able to defend against his approaches

 

[210stuna]

Can you guys give me some advise?

I just watched the first match, and then like you said when he had one life left he went into overdrive.
And that happens man. A lot of people usually do really good when they start or when they have one stock left.

Don't let that get to you though, and become so pro that you never let off the gas when you play a match.

Once you made your first stock mistake (SD'd?) he used that momentum and chance to come back to almost win.

The first thing I noticed was you need to DJC PKF moreeee, especially with how much you use it.
Go in the lab and practice it for an hour, and even once you get it down, practice again for another hour.
Practice on your CRT until it gets engraved in your brain into muscle memory.

Learn to pivot grab.
Lucas has a good grab, but in reality he has a crazy good grab.
The pivot grab gives you more grab range, and less cool down with more active grab frames.
You want to use that as much as you can when you do grab.

Going back to PKF, it clanks with nearly any move with a hitbox, so don't rely on it when someone sends a projectile at it and charges right afterwards especially if you have bad spacing after sending it out.

Dash dance more often.
Lucas has a phenomenal dash dance that works great for mix up and can tie into DJC PKF/Pivot grabs when the opponent sends out a dash attack or a SHFFL move.

Don't absorb projectiles.
This isn't one of those better options 100% of the time, but for the most part the same you try to convert off of your PKF into a combo, other players will do the same to you and with the absorption of the projectile you will be left open to get hit as a cross up. I'm not sure against ZSS, but I know against a good Mario or any Mario player for that matter, Z-air beats his projectile, fireball.

Z-air is another great mix up/offense, but be careful with it's spacing.

I'm going to watch the other match now
Okay the camera cut out when watching it, so I'm going to go up until there.

When being combo'd, and realize that Lucas can become combo food with bad, or maybe even with DECENT DI.
Try to Magnet when being combo'd, if you can't airdodge to ledge for a tether.

I see you know how to pivot grab. Don't do standing grabs man
Also don't use DACUS as a gimmick so many times in a match, I know it's so rewarding when you do hit it, but if it doesn't you could be 0-death'd or eat a gimp if you get knocked off stage more easily. I usually use it as a conversion off of DJC PKF rarely, or if it's a platform stage and my opponent has good DI and I can only reach them with that attack when they land/tech on a platform.

 

[Master WGS]

Master WGS?! LIKE FROM POKEMON TAS?!

Aaaahahahahaha yes.

Anyway, thanks for keeping this thread alive, guys. Sorry I don't play as much/ever update it. If I could give the reigns over to someone who would ACTUALLY keep an updated OP, I'd do it in a heartbeat. My only demand would be they keep my terrifying thread title.

 

[WC Roshi]

Roshi (Lucas) vs CPU1 (Charizard)
youtu. be/3AsHz7HOGVA
First recorded pm set, ignore game 1 was not warmed up at all. Any pointers appreciated.

 

[Kipcom]

Here are a few matches I did with TKBreezy over Netplay. Please give me some constructive criticism, guys!

Kip (Lucas) vs. TKBreezy (Pikachu) 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMhGApPf39g

Kip (Lucas) vs. TKBreezy (Pikachu) 2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2DlkjHO0cc

Kip (Lucas) vs. TKBreezy (Falco): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YbHHzliQweo

Kip (Lucas) vs. TKBreezy (Ness): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YfIuZTw5jM

Anything I should do more of? Anything I should do less of? I'm all ears.

 

[Dron]

I'm not too familiar with how netplay affects people's play but the stuff you were doing seemed really solid

the only conspicuous holes I saw were the lack of djc pkf zoning (slightly remedied by the standing pkfs which can be useful sometimes, but I think that should mainly be used for length mixups when you know you're in a safe position - you weren't really getting punished for it anyways) and the fact that you could be reacting faster to people being stuck in their shield and escape the repeating magnet hitbox faster

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laKl3K3nPHQ projectiles, somebody please halp, I'm stumped

edit: also ignore my stage CPs, the other guy plays literally 10 characters so the stage wasn't really a concern

 

[Kipcom]

Netplay's pretty decent in terms of lag. It's typically about 2-3 frames of lag at the most if it's a good connection, so it doesn't hinder me.


When it comes to Link, I think he's one of Lucas's worst matchups, along with Falco.

Basically for Link's projectiles, you can either fair the boomerang, jump over it, or blok it then wavedash OoS towards him. Trust me, I know your pain when it comes to fighting Link. I also think you can PKFreeze Link's boomerang, but on the other hand it sometimes feels like Boomerang beats out the PKFreeze instead of cancelling each other.

As for Falco...yeah I'm still working on that matchup

Basically playing against Link forces you to be patiently. I feel like I do a LOT better when I'm not trying to go aggro on him. When I do get close to Link, I try to shield pressure as hard as I can, not giving him the chance to grab or up b OoS. Of course when I do get grabbed, I just took an entire 50% to 60% from juggles due to Lucas being a fast faller.

If anyone else wants to give either of us some advice, feel free to!

 

[Spice]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Eh_qRdwuMw

Here is a match with Hammertime if you haven't seen it. Absolutely amazing combos, good use of DACUS and magnet. It is against Marth too, which is a matchup several in the Lucas threads have said they have had difficulty with.

 

[Master WGS]

Eh, will probably start updating this again since I've been hanging around the forums/playing a lot more than I expected I would. I'll fix the OP sometime after work tomorrow, and try and fill it up with all the post-3.02 vids.

Remember format your posts to be

Player (Lucas) vs Player (character): link to video

EDIT: Done and done. OP now has (to my knowledge) all the 3.02 vids posted. Possibly some 3.0-3.01 stuff in there, but I don't think the differences are too major to really matter anyway? If I missed any posted here, or if you know of any worth putting in the OP let me know. Gonna stick to YT links since they're easier to keep track of/tend to be divided by set, unlike lengthy twitch streams.

 

[Badge]

Nice! In case you also include misc. videos that aren't matches, here's a DJC tutorial video I made.