• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Wario Matchup Export

Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Deleted member

Guest

Character: Wario
Current BBR MU Rating: -2
What to watch out for: Grab-release to F-Smash. The priority of Wario's U-air (our D-air isn't safe)
-
Stages
-Strike: Yoshi's Island, Lylat Cruise, Smashville
-Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Battleship Halberd
-Counterpicks: Pokemon Stadium 2, Frigate
Lucas Boards Matchup Rating: -1

[collapse="Summaries"]

Past matchup summary posted by J: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13148998&postcount=2

Having the multi-hit aerials helps but dair depends on us being under you and our bike allows us to be pretty high in the air most of the time. Nair depends on you actually touching/being near us and if we are in the air and force you to come up high, then it will be pretty easy to dodge/read the nair and then punish your landing with a shield grab or something.

I dont have too much experience with this matchup although there are a few things that can be said just from knowing the two characters.

1) Lucas doesnt have a GR on wario. Thus its a lot harder for you guys to kill us unless you get a hard read and upsmash us or something. We kill you at earlier % with f-smash/fart/up-air.

2) You can out prioritize/outrange us in the air with dair( if your above) or fair. Nairs will trade I believe.

3) Pivot grabs could be good depending on how much lag there is if you miss or not. Im not familiar with lucas' pivot grab afterlag. Its a tether so if there isnt too much lag it can be solid.

4) Its a lot easier for us to gimp you than it is for you to gimp us. We can throw tires/bikes, nair, fair, fart etc. If we recover low, its a pretty high risk for you to come off stage and try to gimp us. I think pk thundering us off our bike would be your best bet or waiting till after we just off the bike.

I dont really have much else to say about this MU since Ive never personally played a good lucas offline. I would guess the mu is 55:45 or 60:40 wario's advantage.
Stages ({Plus means good for Lucas, Minus means bad for Lucas, Nothing implies equality})
Note: Equality on stages does not neccessarily mean the matchup is even there, nor does a plus mean Lucas is in favor. It just means the stage favors Lucas or the other way around, which changes the raw match up. I believe the match up is +2 still, about a 60-40 / 65-35 matchup for Wario in whatever way you interpret that. Since Lucas does better overall on the unity stage list than most low tiers imo, I'd say Lucas has a lot going for him. He can at most make this a +1 for Wario.

I've played FAE's lucas on wifi and Tyr's Lucas offline. That's about it. FAE's is incredible compared to Tyr's, but still it's only wifi experience. Not enough Lucas mains in the MW. I did however practice with my friend at Purdue, who "mained" Lucas for a bit, looking for a low tier other than Jiggs (Jayford).

Final Destination
+Yoshi's Island
-Lylat
+Pokemon Stadium 1
-Smashville
Battlefield
+Castle Siege

-Brinstar
+Frigate
-Rainbow Cruise
-Battleship Halberd
Delfino Plaza
+Pokemon Stadium 2

I put a negative on Brinstar. Because. I absolutely destroyed Tyr's Lucas there, if I'm not mistaken. Still, the metagame changes. You could be right. But it's still Wario's domain, that CP list. Lucas does super well on neutrals and the other classy CP's though imo. Mix ups galore on PS2, Frigate he has all kinds of control (FAE <3) and Delfino has some good safe-havens for the boy, but due to Wario dominating the air primarily, it makes this stage more equal. Halberd, oh boy, Wario just loves bike throwing here, along with early clap kills and such.
[/collapse]
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
Kick off discussion: Gogogogo!

[collapse=Wario Summary]
Quick Tips:
Magnetable Projectiles: NO
D-air to D-tilt Lock %:
General MU:
(About Grab Release to F-smash) Fsmash is guaranteed. It's not hard to do/land since we basically just have to buffer it and it comes out fast enough every time. Against a wall obviously we can regrab, but I don't think Wario pummels fast enough to force Lucas to ground break.

Fair for us outranges your Nair. Our Nair trades hits with yours if done right. Your Fair outranges our aerials I believe, but overall it's kinda risky to use against Wario. If you use it and he comes at you and you whiff/he airdodges, you will probably get punished for it.

Camping Dair can work but you can't get greedy with it. That and you have to know when to back off since Wario moves faster horizontally than you. Bair, don't even bother with it 90% of the time.

Jab is pretty good against Wario when done at the right time. Wario hits pretty fast, but Jab keeps him in check at surprising moments. Ftilt is ok, but if you miss it's gonna suck. Fsmash is pretty safe if you force Wario to shield it. He can punish usually if he is able to spotdodge or if you miss otherwise. Usmash, eww. Dsmash, it's ok but I think Fsmash overall is safer, at least against Wario. If he was slower in the air/not as flexible, then I could see Dsmash being as good as Fsmash or better in this matchup.

Try not to PK Fire camp THAT hard. Like Wario usually is forced to dodge it, but he doesn't lose ground/doesn't potentially put himself in danger by doing so. That and if he reads it well enough, he can surprise DACUS at you before it comes out.

Recovering you have to be careful, Wario has some dirty tricks. Like Zap Jumping is usually a good idea, you just have to be wary about going over Wario at the wrong time, considering he can follow you pretty well even if he guesses wrong on which direction you try to descend from/weave from. If you are forced to use PKT2, you have some other things to worry about.

Wario's Bike can stop Lucas in his Tracks while recovering, force him to eat a bunch of damage and fall downwards, and it gives Wario further time to edgeguard you further/stage spike you. Also if you time it wrong, Bike can "clash" and basically eat the PKT before it reaches you. Wario can also make it disappear by Fairing it and Dairing it (Nair and Uair work, but those are far more harder to implement successfully under normal circumstances). I've even seen Wario's Upb cling and break PKT, so in General just be careful of hit "eating" it up and leaving you to die.


Overall I think it's 60:40 Wario. I'm looking at some of the other characters you have done, and like he does better than Falco does, but he's no Snake/Marth/really hard matchup for Lucas. I think he does better than ROB though, but not enough to portray Wario as 65:35.
-Never, ever, let Wario gets the percentage lead. Other wise the MU might as well be 90:10
-You're definitely going to be abusing jab
-Watch out for u-air and f-smash at kill percents
-If you somehow get a grab at the edge, you can force and air release to b-air spike. He'll probably SDI and tech it though if he's DMG


Punishment:
Wario Punishment

Aerials - Laugh at yourself for whiffing a punish

Jab 1 - Hold shield up
Jab 2 - D-air
Dash Attack - U-smash
F-tilt - D-air
D-tilt - F-smash
U-tilt - F-smash (Near frame perfect)
F-smash - D-smash (I would suggest sheild grab though b/c of pushback)
D-smash - U-smash
U-smash - F-smash

Side-B - Hit him off :3
Up-B - Sheild and Punish Landing
Down-B - No info
Neutral-B - F-smash when he closes his mouth

Stage Discussion!
Apply the same logic that Galeon uses for PS

Stages:
Stage Strike: Battlefield, Lylat
Counterpick: Norfair, PS2 (unfortunately usually these are illegal)
Ban: RC, Frigate

Frame Data:
:link2:
[/collapse]
 

Chuee

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 20, 2008
Messages
6,002
Location
Kentucky
- GR --> fsmash gives wario early kills and free damage
- We have trouble hitting wario if he air camps
- His uair beats our dair
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
Joined
Feb 14, 2010
Messages
7,591
Location
Colorado
Isn't the Fsmash only garunteed on Ness and not Lucas for an early KO?

Idk, it's been a while since I checked the GR data let alone Lucas data lol.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I think it's actually a lot harder for Wario to air camp Lucas due to Nair and dair outlasting his airdodge.
 

bassem6

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 6, 2006
Messages
1,402
Location
oklahoma
I think it's actually a lot harder for Wario to air camp Lucas due to Nair and dair outlasting his airdodge.
Having the multi-hit aerials helps but dair depends on us being under you and our bike allows us to be pretty high in the air most of the time. Nair depends on you actually touching/being near us and if we are in the air and force you to come up high, then it will be pretty easy to dodge/read the nair and then punish your landing with a shield grab or something.

I dont have too much experience with this matchup although there are a few things that can be said just from knowing the two characters.

1) Lucas doesnt have a GR on wario. Thus its a lot harder for you guys to kill us unless you get a hard read and upsmash us or something. We kill you at earlier % with f-smash/fart/up-air.

2) You can out prioritize/outrange us in the air with dair( if your above) or fair. Nairs will trade I believe.

3) Pivot grabs could be good depending on how much lag there is if you miss or not. Im not familiar with lucas' pivot grab afterlag. Its a tether so if there isnt too much lag it can be solid.

4) Its a lot easier for us to gimp you than it is for you to gimp us. We can throw tires/bikes, nair, fair, fart etc. If we recover low, its a pretty high risk for you to come off stage and try to gimp us. I think pk thundering us off our bike would be your best bet or waiting till after we just off the bike.

I dont really have much else to say about this MU since Ive never personally played a good lucas offline. I would guess the mu is 55:45 or 60:40 wario's advantage.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Hey bassem6, can you get some of the other Wario's in here to get the discussion going? I'm in Florida right now on vacation, so...:/
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
So....this thread died as soon as I went on vacation. ;_; Where's the discussion at, guys?

Let's talk about stages. Personally, even though I'm aware of Brinstar being one of Wario's better stages, I feel perfectly fine taking him there as Lucas, seeing that Lucas has plenty of things like hitbox extensions that he can abuse there, which helps if the Wario is just trying to airdodge away for most of the match.
 

Krystedez

Awaken the Path
Joined
Feb 22, 2010
Messages
4,301
Location
Colorado Springs
Stages ({Plus means good for Lucas, Minus means bad for Lucas, Nothing implies equality})
Note: Equality on stages does not neccessarily mean the matchup is even there, nor does a plus mean Lucas is in favor. It just means the stage favors Lucas or the other way around, which changes the raw match up. I believe the match up is +2 still, about a 60-40 / 65-35 matchup for Wario in whatever way you interpret that. Since Lucas does better overall on the unity stage list than most low tiers imo, I'd say Lucas has a lot going for him. He can at most make this a +1 for Wario.

I've played FAE's lucas on wifi and Tyr's Lucas offline. That's about it. FAE's is incredible compared to Tyr's, but still it's only wifi experience. Not enough Lucas mains in the MW. I did however practice with my friend at Purdue, who "mained" Lucas for a bit, looking for a low tier other than Jiggs (Jayford).

Final Destination
+Yoshi's Island
-Lylat
+Pokemon Stadium 1
-Smashville
Battlefield
+Castle Siege

-Brinstar
+Frigate
-Rainbow Cruise
-Battleship Halberd
Delfino Plaza
+Pokemon Stadium 2

I put a negative on Brinstar. Because. I absolutely destroyed Tyr's Lucas there, if I'm not mistaken. Still, the metagame changes. You could be right. But it's still Wario's domain, that CP list. Lucas does super well on neutrals and the other classy CP's though imo. Mix ups galore on PS2, Frigate he has all kinds of control (FAE <3) and Delfino has some good safe-havens for the boy, but due to Wario dominating the air primarily, it makes this stage more equal. Halberd, oh boy, Wario just loves bike throwing here, along with early clap kills and such.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Krystedez, are you gonna be at SiiS6? I've alted Lucas for some time, and maybe it would help give you some experience if we played some friendlies, although my Lucas isn't nearly at FAE's level. He's pretty incredible.

Thanks for your stage input. I wouldn't have thought to strike Halberd until you gave your reasoning, and that does seem pretty bad. I still feel like Brinstar wouldn't be terrible, but I guess that's just personal preference. Lucas is good there, though.

As for Yoshi's Island, I'd actually tip the scales in Wario's favor for that. It's probably the worst neutral for Lucas.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom