Walk-in Closet (Refurbished)

[imdavid]

that makes no sense at all... well you can still over shoot and time it for it to end after the cape ends with the edge of dins then, its not like dins will never land on him. probably a good percent will land on him so this shouldn't even be an issue

 

[popsofctown]

It's just as illogical as Lucas imdavid: even if the hit box is only touching the parts of him that aren't a PSI Magnet, he will absorb everything you hit him with.

But again, the cape is just like invincibility frames on demand. Every character in the game can get invincibility frames on demand. (which is really strange, now that i think of it)

 

[TheFast]

that makes no sense at all... well you can still over shoot and time it for it to end after the cape ends with the edge of dins then, its not like dins will never land on him. probably a good percent will land on him so this shouldn't even be an issue

It is weird, when my friend used Mario he found out that if u short hop to the cape at the right time you can cape during the whole range of dins fire. This is because in the air the cape propels him forward just barley, which shortens the range of the din's fire. I think this will only happen if the mario is use to fighting Zeldas though.

(by range i mean the space where you explode it in front of the person to the space behind them. I 'm not very good at explaining what im trying to say, but i hope people understand what i am saying. Just encase if somebody understands what i mean and knows how to say it clearer please do so.)

 

[popsofctown]

cleaner grammar from now on, please

 

[TheFast]

Sorry about that. I edited it. I already struggle with grammar and i had just woken up at 6:00 am. Wasn't all there at the time when i wrote that.

 

[popsofctown]

Ahh, he can shorthop it and move forward. That's more useful than i could grant before. Actually sounds like fun.
If anyone has played a good Zelda v. Mario game, i'll just accept whatever for now, considering the drought of mario players. I'd rather us just move on to some more critical matchups. Well Mario isn't a joke or anything, but i want to fill out the chart.

 

[TheFast]

What about for dittos. I think Sheik is good for fighting Zelda and Sheik. Because I think Sheik has an advantage over Zelda by using needles to counter Din's Fire and try to keep Zelda in the air. Other peoples thoughts?

 

[popsofctown]

I dont play many dittos, i've heard a few ppl say they play lots of ditttos, maybe they will chime in

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

no... Zelda owns the ditto matchup hard.... sheik can't get inside zelda's range/priority

 

[TheFast]

That surprises me, but does sound logical. Up-smash probably hits Sheik hard now that i think of it.

 

[sFoster]

no... Zelda owns the ditto matchup hard.... sheik can't get inside zelda's range/priority

While this is true, sheik can also outcamp zelda

 

[imdavid]

once a sheik hacks into zeldas inner zone and has an ftilt combo set up, all hell breaks lose as the zelda has a hard time escaping for a while, but as soon as she escapes and re-establishes her territory then the tables are switched, so if the sheik is good enough to get into a zeldas zone more than a zelda can keep herself in the proper range then a sheik can win, but that takes more skill and is harder to do so zelda usually wins

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

exactly <_<

if the two players are of equal skill, Zelda has this matchup in the bag.

 

[imdavid]

haha i wouldn't say "in the bag" since most of its situational and luck on the sheiks part, i wonder why we don't ever consider luck in these match ups xD a crap trip might just kill you and end your stock hahaha...

nvm. just ignore that

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

haha i wouldn't say "in the bag" since most of its situational and luck on the sheiks part, i wonder why we don't ever consider luck in these match ups xD a crap trip might just kill you and end your stock hahaha...

nvm. just ignore that

considering relative strengths... that would be more of a worry for shiek actually

 

[TheFast]

While this is true, sheik can also outcamp zelda

Jump to din's fire enstead of just dins fire. You go over needles, start an advance, and maybe hit with the din's fire. Not sure if this will work its idea I just thought of and I'm wonder if anyone know if this is good or bad to do when fighting Sheik with Zelda.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

if you aim din's right (IE at the ground under shiek) it will explode even if you get hit by a needle... and guess which one hurts more.

besides, shiek has a hell of a time trying to seal the deal against zelda. Zelda dominates sheik on the ground, and in the air, while shiek has the advantage, if shiek managaes to get hit by one of zelda's directional aerials, he's dead.

 

[Pablicio]

Did you mention Sheik as "his" a few times on purpose?

0_o

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

Did you mention Sheik as "his" a few times on purpose?

0_o

I only said so once... and I said "he's" yeah... shiek's gender I'll go back and forth on

 

[popsofctown]

Are you considering the decreased transformation time for this matchup? If Sheik or Zelda is in a match, even as your opponent, you can transform to become someone who's already on the field much much more quickly than normal. (this is confirmed, old stuff, if it sounds foreign and strange to you, look through some old threads about transformation time).

So this means, if you play a game of Sheik v. Zelda, player A and player B, assuming that Sheik racks damage on Zelda better than Zelda racks damage , and that Zelda kills Zelda better than Sheik kills Zelda, than player A has an advantage (the Sheik starter is player A)
Damage totals at different points in the hypathetical match.

Player A: 10% Player B: 12%
Player A: 20% Player B: 30%
Player A: 80% Player B: 100%

Now player A needs barely any knockback at all to transform and become zelda, safely. Once player A transforms, A's disadvantaged ability to kill is wiped away, and A has a pure damage advantage.


I want to re-iterate that what i've just stated is true, but only with the two assumptions that can't actually be assumed without testing: Sheik racks on Zelda better than Zelda racks on Sheik, Zelda kills Zelda better than Sheik kills Zelda.

Also, haven't checked in a while how fast the shortened transform is, but i think it's like, melee fast.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

that would have some validity if shiek was actually better at racking damage in the matchup... but he's really not (BTW, it's a hell of a lot easier to use the pronouns "he" and "she" here because it would obviously make "he" shiek and "she" zelda)

Anyway. Shiek has very limited range on his attacks and has much less priority than zelda. Combine this with the fact that zelda easily outcamps him with her din's fire and you can pretty quickly see that this matchup does NOT go in shiek's favour. Shiek basically CANNOT get inside zelda unless she whiffs and will likely take much damage attempting to get inside. Really, nothing he can do can get inside her smashes as long as she's pretty compitent with them and needles can be refelcted even if he manages to get them off... and even if he DOES get in close, her Dsmash and nayru's come out quickly enough to shake off.

Seriously. I played a person at a noticably higher skill level than me recently, but in our Zelda vs. Shiek matchup, it wasn't even close. Shiek never got to display his excellent aerial game becasue he kept getting stuffed by Zelda's Usmash and couldn't pop zelda in the air well enough to follow up because he was having a hard time just connecting... And on the ground.... no response at all for zelda. She's too light to combo and has to much priority/range to poke... that cripples shiek in the matchup

Despite the fact that he's a good deal better than me, I nearly 3 stocked him (playing with 3 stocks)

 

[imdavid]

it may seem like there's a lot of us sheik/zelda players out there in the world... but that's because were in the zelda forums xD shouldnt we concentrate on more shtuff per say... snake/metaknight/rob/marth and strategies for them?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

MK is an easy one: be zelda... somewhere earlier in another thread I posted why.... let me find it.

Honestly, I think zelda has an advantage against metaknight... albeit a small one. he might be better in general, but you can force him to approach and your defensive game has better range priotiy and power than his approach game. and your Usmash will stuff any aerial approach and any attempt for him to KO you with shuttle loop that you manage to shield.

Just don't get baited into whiffing too many attacks. <_<

okay so here's the best way to approach fighting a metaknight:

-DON'T APPROACH METAKNIGHT. he's going to punish you if you dash attack him by spotdodging and punishing your cooldown lag. he'll just whack you out of a dash Usmash... you could get lucky and hope he reacts incorrectly, but I wouldn't bet on it.

-His air game will kill yours, so STAY GROUNDED unless moving in for a Uair kill.

- Lots of your moves, if timed correctly, will go through his priority tornado.

-DON'T LET HIM TOO CLOSE Dsmash if he's right on top of you.

-Use din's to force him to approach.

-Usmash destroys any attempt he makes to come at you from the air. It'll be your best friend.

-Usmash allso punishes a power shielded shuttle loop.

- he's REALLY lightweight so you can kill him at obscenely low damages as long as one of your KO moves is relatively fresh.

- Be smart with Farore's wind. It's a slow recovery, so make sure you employ it in the safest manner possible

-A glide is easily punnished by Din's fire

-if you can short hop into a lighting kick, I'm pretty sure you can KO metaknight at 50%

-if he goes up with his tornado and you find yourself below him, he can't airdodge, Uair will kill him at low damage, if Uair has a lot of decay on it, Utilt is also a strong option. if neither of those are practical, Usmash is good for building damage and high damage KOs

-Din's fire is quite capable of actually KOing metaknight if his damage and screen position are high enough or close enough to the edge.

-DON'T TRY TO FEND OFF HIS AERIALS, they outrange yours.. just avoid him. If he's dumb enough to get in lightning kick range then punish him with a FRESH lighting kick instead of one you failed to land 7 times.

-Save a jump when you are in the air.. it makes you more versitile and you have a better chance of escaping.

-You won't get off your spike... don't even try it.

-You also will never land your Nair because of its range... only use it to refresh other moves.

-Don't neglect tilts or her neutral A. You need all the speed to can get in this matchup, and they refresh your KO moves.

-if your Dtilt causes Metaknight trip, which it's likely to do, it's impossible for him to avoid a Fsmash if you follow up with it. (Moral: follow up successful trips with Fsmash)

-Nayru's love is a great "get the hell off of me" move, and since you won't be reflecting anything, it'll normally be pretty fresh. it's a great alternative to Dsmash when he's too close. it tends to be better at dealing damage, but it doesn't have the KOing power.

- KEEP IN MIND that even though the matchup is roghly even, he WILL win if you make too many mistakes. Don't get complacent just because you are one of MK's harder matchups

 

[TheFast]

I think snake would be Zelda also. I personally havnt played a good snake ever but it seems like snakes up-b leaves him wide open for alot of Zeldas attacks such as dins fire or maybe a lightning kick if your quick enough plus about half of snakes moves can be punished if you are close enough. Also i think dins fire can get off before his missiles but then cooked grenades might be a problem for din's fire. Just another fight im not to sure of because of lack of experience against the character these are just thoughts and have no experience behind them.

 

[imdavid]

needles stop snakes nade game for the most part as they cause them to explode on contact, snake's heaviness also makes it easy to tilt lock the guy, but since hes so heavy its impossible to kill him, so i think a StZ or just Z will do fine

 

[popsofctown]

I badly want to play a good snake player, but haven't. I'm pretty sure that the needles disrupt the grenades and the bazooka as well (is it called the Nikita?). So if both forms can disrupt his projectile game, StZ could definitely be an option.

I think Sheik would also have an advantage in the air in this matchup. If Snake is facing Sheik, than he's stuck with that axe kick fair, which is really slow. If he's smart, he'll try to dodge away, but Sheik excels attacking enemies in the air who don't want to engage.


This is just theory, because i haven't played a Snake. I'm actually thinking of going to the Snake forums and asking if any live in Alabama.

 

[Oh Snap]

From personal experience, I did better with Shiek when fighting DK. I had trouble killing, but Zelda can do that easily.

 

[popsofctown]

Have you tried out StZ versus DK?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

shiek's a man according to OoT but a woman according to Smash. I try to stay true to cannon by using the male pronouns, but I'll slip in an out because it's just too dang confusing.

that is all

 

[Iris]

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4035187&postcount=115

I dropped in to post this out of relevance and pride.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

http://smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=4035187&postcount=115

I dropped in to post this out of relevance and pride.

shiek just looks like any of the androgynous males that appear in RPGs all the time.

And all dialogue referrs to shiek as being a male entity.

 

[Luthien]

First of all, I fail to see how Sheik's gender is relevant to this thread. Second, I don't see how calling Sheik a "he" is being rude, seing as how that's what Zelda was going for anyway (if anything, you're complimenting her genius and talent at disquising herself). And third:

First of all, as much as this thread seems destined to descend into vulgarity, I applaud its creator for attempting to end a longstanding and completely ridiculous debate.

Secondly, the entire arguement for Sheik supposedly being male is based on ONE single, in-game quote. When you encounter Ruto as an "adult" (is 17 really an adult?) in OoT, she explains why she isn't frozen like the rest of the Zoras; she was saved by a Sheikah, refered to as male. However, it is important to note two things about this; 1) This is the first time Ruto met Sheik, and from Sheik's previous behavior we can infer that it probably consisted of Sheik helping Ruto out, then disappearing before any questions can be asked about who she is (like she does with Link) and 2) It wouldn't be a very convincing disguise if Ruto, who isn't the brightest star in the sky, didn't fall for it. Sheik is SUPPOSED to look like a dude. The other characters are SUPPOSED to think she's a dude. Why? Because, contrary to what some people would have us believe, gamers aren't stupid. If Zelda disguised herself as a Sheikah GIRL, any idiot in their right mind would have put two and two together the first time she showed up. So Nintendo disguised her as a guy, which takes neither no ammount of magic or surgery, just watch movies like Some Like It Hot or She's the Man or any number of other movies.

And while some people regard Sheik's appearances in the Smash Bros. series non-cannon, her classic trophy from Melee (which refers to her as female) IS cannon, by virtue of the fact that its sole purpose is to breifly summarize Sheik's cannonical history.

Ladies and gentlemen, Sheik is no longer a potato.

The rAt is right, and there is nothing you can do to change that. Keep calling Sheik a he, I really don't care. But for the record, Sheik was actually female in OoT. (For anyone who is curious, I have the page with that post on it bookmarked so I can spit it out every time someone comes along and is wrong. Thank you, The rAt).

Popsofctown, Sonic the Hedgedawg does not need to respect those who do care about Sheik's true gender. In fact, if he believes that Sheik truly is male, aren't you disrespecting his opinion by refering to Sheik with the pronoun "she"? But I digress.

What does it matter if Sonic the Hedgedawg calls Sheik a man? How is one. missing. letter. such a big deal? Think about it.

Congratulations, you two. You've just ensured that I never open this thread ever again.

 

[popsofctown]

I think Luthien is right, and believe I'm wrong. I drop my sword, and I'm going to delete my posts into blankness. If you'll do that too, SonictheHedgedawg, then character discussion will be interrupted only by Luthien's post, and this one.

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

there's no delete button that I can see but w/e... it doesn't really matter if it gets left up or not.

just move on.

Anywy... I know that it's widely stated that Zelda vs. MK is even and so is Zelda Vs. snake...

but I've always found zelda vs. MK to slightly favour zelda and Zelda vs. snake to slightly favour snake.

 

[popsofctown]

it only matters a little, but to "delete" the posts you can just edit them and then replace the text with "tencharacters". You can leave it up, I don't care, but I don't want to leave up my retracted statements, so I should at least warn you that my posts are gone.

Since Snake's uptilt is often called the fastest KO move in the game, it would seem Snake would have a tough time using his aerial game against Snake. Does anyone else know about Sheik v Snake and Zelda v Snake?

 

[Sonic The Hedgedawg]

I know that Din's Fire is faster than Nikita so she can outcamp it and Zelda can approach snake right through his nikita using her dash attack hitting, and going through nikita while also hitting snake so she does a very good job taking away his strongest projectile. However, good nades can really screw up her Din's camping attempts.

Zelda has disjointed hiboxes and more range on most of her moves but she doesn't like letting snake get too close or being trapped in the air above him, and Snake's dash-attack cancelled Usmash does a good job at accomplishing these things.

Zelda can punish snakes recovery with her lightning kicks, Usmash or Din't fire depending on what the situation may be.

She can reflec his Usmash, which is nice, but rarely useful.

Still he's so dang hard to kill and she is so easy for him to kill.

 

[Oh Snap]

Have you tried out StZ versus DK?

Actually I did. I racked up like 120% and then Usmashed with Zelda

Racking up all that damage wasn't a pain at all...

 

[popsofctown]

With DK's fall speed and size, this sounds pretty logical. His tilts would seem to have enough rang to keep Sheik out of tilt and combo range, but Sheik can force DK to approach with Bairs.

Any objections to calling this StZ?

 

[Oh Snap]

I just used Shiek for one stock actually. The lag in Wifi really got to me and I switched back to Zelda. I lost most of my games, sadly, but I think I would've done better if I stuck with Shiek and then KO'd with Zelda.

It's really sad...I'm too reliant on Zelda rofl.

 

[TheFast]

I say StZ is great for DK. His slow recovery allows you the change between Sheik and Zelda without fear.