vs. Yoshi match-up?

[Rajikaru]

How exactly am I supposed to play around Yoshi? He moves too fast to reliably harass with projectiles or tech chase, all of his neutrals and airmoves have higher priority than fair and are much faster than any other air move, and his ****ing upair makes me want to punch somebody in the face. Also, his recovery is hard to reliably harass because of his jump's super armour.

 

[Zaa]

Im not an expert by any means, but vs yoshi I think the best way to edgeguard is to go quite deep and force him into something you can react to, also remember his aerial side b (the egg) has no hitbox when started from the air so you can always challenge it with any aerial.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Most Yoshis have yoshi syndrome, which is basically the way I describe how that character makes yoshi players feel like they can go in and win any trading scenario and beat CC/shielding, through a combination or armor, a quick high priority Nair, DJC, and a fair that beats CC and is safe on shield. Your best bet is probably try to DD until he goes in, then outspace for a grab. Be careful of overextending your punishments because Yoshi's armor will get him out even in frame right situations. Using upsmash for juggles is actually best in this matchup I think because it breaks armor early, and even at lower percents when it won't, it puts them high up enough above you for a safer juggling opportunity.
I like to charge fsmash to edgeguard in this matchup, it depends on how far out their recovery started (and requires them to be past a certain percent range) but it's aimability and disjoint and reach and strength make it an ideal move for dealing with armor. Nair can also break armor at 42% for a gimp, and covers a lot of space and lingers, but there is an issue where if they interrupt their armor with an aerial, you'll get full knockback upwards that will let them recover with an egg roll.

 

[Sneez]

i think yoshi is one of rob's best matchups. you can just put out a top and shoot lazers from behind it cuz yoshi tends to approach from the ground. here's a vid of me vs a yoshi, might give you some ideas. https://youtu.be/6xD_iE7Qw28?t=4h10m53s

 

[DrinkingFood]

That guy is just a really not good Yoshi tho. He barely knows the matchup, it looks like he barely knows his own character. His punishments were weak, his DJCs were rarely timed well/almost never used in the right situations, he never picked up gyro. I think your experience in that matchup is tainted by a bad opponent lol. Yoshi can approach from the air very well due to a fair with decent reach that beats CC and is safe on shield (-2 or -1 I iirc), in combination with DJC allowing him to shift momentum and dynamically alter the position and timing of his landing, plus his ability to cycle perfect wavelands off and between platforms. You on the other hand were doing most of the right things as far as playing him goes, but had he been playing the matchup well or his character well you would have been forced to do some things very different. I have videos of me playing Hamyojo, arguably the best Yoshi in PM-
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2MFUs299Nw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT9pD3Dgvtk
These are better indicators of the matchup imo since hamyojo is actually pretty good. Note that my use of upsmash in both these sets is way too low. This is before I realized how good it is here.

 

[Sneez]

lol ya i'll agree my opponent wasn't the greatest, tho i really don't think yoshi's fair is a great approach since there's so much startup and yoshi doesn't have the best horizontal mobility in the air. you could just run away boost fair it, and it looked like you were getting shield grabs off it but maybe it was hamyojo being too slow. and i can see how upsmash is really good against djc chars so they cant hit you out of it like they can against upair. calabrel kept dairing me out of my upair so annoying

 

[DrinkingFood]

Yoshi has like average mobility in the air... IF it weren't for his DJC. The variety of spacing mix-ups available with DJC (retreating DJC fair is a thing, or doing it in place, or forward or anywhere in between) makes it hard to get perfect spacing to punish it, and with 6 frames of start-up invinc on his shield, he has effectively a better version of a spotdodge as far as beating grabs goes. Run away boost fair is a slower response to mis spaced moves than a plain grab is- it takes 17 frames from the frame you start your jump for the fair to come out, if you're frame perfect and don't need to travel for more than a frame during your boost. Fair can also be CC'd to pretty high percents, especially since Yoshi would easily be able to get out a frame of his crouch before you could hit him with the fair. With the grab, JCing it means it lands frame 8 (at the earliest) but you also have pivot grabs and a variety of spacings available to you all for quicker than you can boost in and fair. There is more commitment at the end, which is a fair criticism of it- grab doesn't beat spot dodge or parry, but the likelihood that they get one of those out when you go for a grab is reduced because you have a quicker option enabling better reactions. Iirc Yoshi's fair has 10 frames of landing lag and probably around 15 frames start-up, so given that the whole process must be at least 26 frames long for fair to hit, it's a tough window to grab him out of but not totally impossible. Anyway his fair is safe on shield so long as it is done close enough to the ground, chances are I was grabbing hamyojo out of it when he did it too high up.

 

[Sneez]

ya pm yoshi is pretty nuts, i heard you can dsmash out of shield with him which is pretty insane if its true. so ive been wondering if turnaround jc grab is better than pivot grab in some cases. like it definitely has less range but is faster and without all the endlag. now that i jc all my grabs (or at least try to) i kinda feel like pivot grabbing isn't that necessary.

 

[Rajikaru]

Bringing this back because I just played another Yoshi and felt completely helpless. His ****ing nair not only has higher priority than literally every move I have, the "no hitbox when sideb in mid-air" is complete bull****. I'm pretty ****ing salty and it isn't fun. I really just want to punch somebody, but I digress.

I don't see where people are coming up with the idea that the Yoshi MU isn't half bad because there's literally no approaches that can't be punished (all air approaches are ruined by Yoshi'sand projectile camping is all but impossible. I'm thinking of just learning a counter so I actually have a chance and don't end up so salty I want to rip the Yoshi player's head off. What'd be the best counter MU? I was thinking something obvious like Marth would be pretty good.

 

[DrinkingFood]

The best counter would be to get good

 

[Rajikaru]

The best counter would be to get good

Is being rude a requirement for getting good?

 

[Zaa]

Tbh it seems like's pure johns from an outside perspective. Basically all you've said is that yoshi nair > ROB and DrinkingFoods linked some sets of him beating a very good yoshi so it seems not to be the case. Not to mention if you're serious about having a character counter then the Yoshi forums would be a much better place.

 

[DrinkingFood]

Basically hit the needle on the head. It's not about whether or not I'm being rude. It's not about me at all, it's about how good you are. If you're not good, or he's just better than you, then of course he's winning. And my advice is just as good as any information I could give you on a Yoshi counter. You're probably going to be even worse with whatever character to try to pick to beat his Yoshi because you haven't practiced them nearly as much as he his Yoshi. You'd be more productive working on your ROB, because even if you didn't come off beating him in the Yoshi matchup, even in the long run, you become better as a player and delve deeper into the character's meta, better preparing your for future matches against other players.

 

[Rajikaru]

I didn't see him you post the videos, DF, and that's my bad. I assumed you had only posted the "get good" message and nothing else.

 

[Zaa]

Also sorry about my wording regarding the side-b. To the best of my knowledge as long as Yoshi is in the air in his side-b it has no hitbox, once it hits the ground it does, if that's where the confusion was.

 

[Rajikaru]

Nope, played a Yoshi last night. Got damaged by his side B while we were both in mid-air.

 

[DrinkingFood]

When he breaks out of the egg while airborne is when it has a hitbox.

 

[(1UP)]

thought i'd drop in for once.

this is definitely a good matchup for us. as already mentioned, u-smash is great against yoshi, and as an extension u-tilt as well. i have found that power-laser kinda wrecks him too (i believe it completely halts his mid-air jump near the end of it? just kind of stops it and he falls, i know i've done it a couple of times but i've also had times where he does go right through)

generally speaking he's pretty good combo food too