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Vs Recorder - Mewtwo Video & Critique Thread

Sonicninja115

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Idk if shadowball helps in the MU that much. This is a pretty rough MU from my experience.
It's not like Mewsquared is the best Mewtwo or anything like that... Trela doesn't count for obvious reasons.

How many of his matches have you watched Browny Browny ? He is a largely tilts/aerial based mewtwo with a dabbling in specials, he uses SB but not nearly as much as Raynoire or others. I also think that he got rattled by that read into a spike. After that he started playing hyper defensively and that might have cost him the set.

It is interesting seeing the many playstyles being developed in Mewtwo's metagame!
 
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meleebrawler

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Idk if shadowball helps in the MU that much. This is a pretty rough MU from my experience.
It's not easy for sure with her mobility and great advantage state, but the thing is she kind of has to space herself before she can get in, at a range that Mewtwo is fairly comfortable in. With paralyzer being mostly negated by Confusion she can struggle to get in on a defensive-minded Mewtwo.

It's not like Mewsquared is the best Mewtwo or anything like that... Trela doesn't count for obvious reasons.

How many of his matches have you watched Browny Browny ? He is a largely tilts/aerial based mewtwo with a dabbling in specials, he uses SB but not nearly as much as Raynoire or others. I also think that he got rattled by that read into a spike. After that he started playing hyper defensively and that might have cost him the set.

It is interesting seeing the many playstyles being developed in Mewtwo's metagame!
Honestly I would say it's better for Mewtwo to be defensive right off the bat against ZSS. She can punish overextensions or commitments pretty hard, but in turn she needs to make some commitments herself to get in. Dodging the grab does wonders, and without it her kill moves are fairly hard to land.

Having differing playstyles and a versatile moveset is one of the hallmarks of a glass cannon. Akuma is widely known for his ability to pressure and combo his opponents into oblivion, but he can also opt to play defensively with his fireballs and wait for his opponent to make a wrong move while chipping safe damage.
 

Browny

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It's not like Mewsquared is the best Mewtwo or anything like that... Trela doesn't count for obvious reasons.

How many of his matches have you watched Browny Browny ? He is a largely tilts/aerial based mewtwo with a dabbling in specials, he uses SB but not nearly as much as Raynoire or others. I also think that he got rattled by that read into a spike. After that he started playing hyper defensively and that might have cost him the set.

It is interesting seeing the many playstyles being developed in Mewtwo's metagame!
It bothers me because its playstyles like that that make people lose faith in the character, after all, he did switch to pikachu later on in the tournament apparently. Some people see, and even he himself, Mewtwo get bopped like that by ZSS and start to just give up and lament Mewtwos weaknesses. On the other hand, if d4kpo banned himself from using flipjump and boost kick for no reason, hed probably place poorly, lose faith in ZSS and put effort into someone else.

I would never at any time describe his playstyle as defensive. Its anything but defensive. If you want to see a defensive mewtwo watch abadangos or richbrowns.

I would not say that the reason Mew^2 lost to d4kpo like that was being outplayed at all. Normally thats the only honourable way to admit to defeat, but not in that set. He handed dakpo a free win. So many times he went for dash attack when grab would have done way more damage, so many times he threw shadowball with exactly 0% chance of hitting, so many times he didnt react properly to reflect paralyser. If he fixed those problems I am confident he would have done somewhere around 40% extra damage for each stock which is EASILY enough to win 2-0. I'm not saying that if he did that he would have won, he probably would have still lost. But the point is he gave himself a chance to win instead of giving it to d4kpo for free.

If people want to get better in tournaments, they need to accept criticism. You cant just write off every loss as 'oh well they played better then me, they deserve the win'.

No.

You lost because of glaring flaws in your playstyle vs zss. Fix those, and beat them next time.

It's all about respecting yourself. Sure give the opponent credit for the win, but not accepting and fixing your own shortcomings in anything competitive is how you lose. He knows hes better than that, hes proven it before. Now adapt again, and win next time.

Mew^2 is obviously a very good player but that doesnt mean he doesnt have room for improvement. This thread is called the 'critique' thread, so lets do what it was designed to do and make sure next time Mew^2 wins.
 
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Sonicninja115

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It bothers me because its playstyles like that that make people lose faith in the character, after all, he did switch to pikachu later on in the tournament apparently. Some people see, and even he himself, Mewtwo get bopped like that by ZSS and start to just give up and lament Mewtwos weaknesses. On the other hand, if d4kpo banned himself from using flipjump and boost kick for no reason, hed probably place poorly, lose faith in ZSS and put effort into someone else.

I would never at any time describe his playstyle as defensive. Its anything but defensive. If you want to see a defensive mewtwo watch abadangos or richbrowns.

I would not say that the reason Mew^2 lost to d4kpo like that was being outplayed at all. Normally thats the only honourable way to admit to defeat, but not in that set. He handed dakpo a free win. So many times he went for dash attack when grab would have done way more damage, so many times he threw shadowball with exactly 0% chance of hitting, so many times he didnt react properly to reflect paralyser. If he fixed those problems I am confident he would have done somewhere around 40% extra damage for each stock which is EASILY enough to win 2-0. I'm not saying that if he did that he would have won, he probably would have still lost. But the point is he gave himself a chance to win instead of giving it to d4kpo for free.

If people want to get better in tournaments, they need to accept criticism. You cant just write off every loss as 'oh well they played better then me, they deserve the win'.

No.

You lost because of glaring flaws in your playstyle vs zss. Fix those, and beat them next time.

It's all about respecting yourself. Sure give the opponent credit for the win, but not accepting and fixing your own shortcomings in anything competitive is how you lose. He knows hes better than that, hes proven it before. Now adapt again, and win next time.

Mew^2 is obviously a very good player but that doesnt mean he doesnt have room for improvement. This thread is called the 'critique' thread, so lets do what it was designed to do and make sure next time Mew^2 wins.
I never said he couldn't do better, you saw how well he was doing before the spike right? He got rattled and practically gave the set away. He missed with almost every attack and went for obvious approaches. He has played far better so many times, and I'm pretty sure that he is even on the PR with mewtwo. Plus, he made it to semifinals so he can't be too sad losing to one of the best ZSS mains behind the obvious candidates (Nairo, Choco and Nick). what he probably shouuld have done was stop airdodging in such a predictable fashion and make better use of FC SB and go for more poke tactics because then he could bait ZSS into doing something punishable.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I think mew^2 is the best mewtwo. He's certainly compiling the best results with the character. I'm not sure if you guys are serious with the things that you guys sre saying. I'm also curious if you guys have even played a ZSS before. I don't really mind the critiques you guys are giving out. However, some videos of your own mewtwo would do wonders.

Also he switched to pikachu vs fox....that MU is terrible for mewtwo.
 

Browny

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'm not sure if you guys are serious with the things that you guys sre saying.
I don't watch through tournament sets and write long responses just to try and get internet points and make lame jokes.

The better someone is at being competitive and a threat at tournaments, the better they can handle critique. No one ever won a tournament while caring about what other people think and no one ever became a top level player with everyone fawning over their playstyle and suggesting they can do no wrong.

I want Mew^2 to read what I wrote there. If he has what it takes to be a high level player, he will either
A) Accept the criticism, work on his weaknesses and beat d4kpo next time or
B) Ignore me and continue to do his own thing

He needs to prove to HIMSELF that he is better than that. I don't care how he does it or who he listens to. The point I am making is that that set vs ZSS is not indicative of the matchup, and it does not reflect his skill. He needs to accept that he didnt get outplayed so much as he gave that win away with a really poor playstyle choice. There have been times he has lost where it was just simply being outplayed or the matchup was too rough. That set was neither of those, it can be worked on.

Seriously. If a top luigi main posted a video in a tournament losing set where they never went for a single grab, never fireballed and only KO'd with dsmash people would rightly criticise them as playing sub-optimally. Losing to say... a Palutena while playing like that would be inexcusable. Its the exact same situation here. From what I saw, Mew^2's playstyle vs that ZSS was not using absolutely critical moves in that matchup, thats what made him lose like that. It was that simple.
 
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AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I don't watch through tournament sets and write long responses just to try and get internet points and make lame jokes.

The better someone is at being competitive and a threat at tournaments, the better they can handle critique. No one ever won a tournament while caring about what other people think and no one ever became a top level player with everyone fawning over their playstyle and suggesting they can do no wrong.

I want Mew^2 to read what I wrote there. If he has what it takes to be a high level player, he will either
A) Accept the criticism, work on his weaknesses and beat d4kpo next time or
B) Ignore me and continue to do his own thing

He needs to prove to HIMSELF that he is better than that. I don't care how he does it or who he listens to. The point I am making is that that set vs ZSS is not indicative of the matchup, and it does not reflect his skill. He needs to accept that he didnt get outplayed so much as he gave that win away with a really poor playstyle choice. There have been times he has lost where it was just simply being outplayed or the matchup was too rough. That set was neither of those, it can be worked on.

Seriously. If a top luigi main posted a video in a tournament losing set where they never went for a single grab, never fireballed and only KO'd with dsmash people would rightly criticise them as playing sub-optimally. Losing to say... a Palutena while playing like that would be inexcusable. Its the exact same situation here. From what I saw, Mew^2's playstyle vs that ZSS was not using absolutely critical moves in that matchup, thats what made him lose like that. It was that simple.
Stop with the hyperbole and post videos of your mewtwo. That whole post is worthless dude. Stop attempting to pasd yourself of as some great sage and actually post videos of you demonstrating what you're talking up.
 
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Browny

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Thats not hyperbole, and no, I don't do what people on forums ask me to do. Theres no ZSS mains in my state remotely near d4kpos level, it would look bad. All people do here is dthrow upb (yes, they dont even uair first).

I couldn't care less if Mew^2 saw my post and goes 'lol scrub doenst know what hes talking about'. Similarly, you're all welcome to say 'lol scrub doesnt know what hes talking about' to me, and I don't care.

That was how I saw it, and I explained it all. Take my critique or leave it, it doenst become less valid because I don't have vids of me vs a high level ZSS. Tell me that my opinion is worthless because I lack vids, and I won't care. I'll still critique that match like I saw it. Alternatively, click my name to the left and hit 'ignore', save yourself some effort.
 
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AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Thats not hyperbole, and no, I don't do what people on forums ask me to do. Theres no ZSS mains in my state remotely near d4kpos level, it would look bad. All people do here is dthrow upb (yes, they dont even uair first).

I couldn't care less if Mew^2 saw my post and goes 'lol scrub doenst know what hes talking about'. Similarly, you're all welcome to say 'lol scrub doesnt know what hes talking about' to me, and I don't care.

That was how I saw it, and I explained it all. Take my critique or leave it, it doenst become less valid because I don't have vids of me vs a high level ZSS. Tell me that my opinion is worthless because I lack vids, and I won't care. I'll still critique that match like I saw it. Alternatively, click my name to the left and hit 'ignore', save yourself some effort.
It doesn't matter if it's ZSS high level or not. I want to see the playstyle you hyping up. That's all man talk is cheap.
 

Sonicninja115

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Thats not hyperbole, and no, I don't do what people on forums ask me to do. Theres no ZSS mains in my state remotely near d4kpos level, it would look bad. All people do here is dthrow upb (yes, they dont even uair first).

I couldn't care less if Mew^2 saw my post and goes 'lol scrub doenst know what hes talking about'. Similarly, you're all welcome to say 'lol scrub doesnt know what hes talking about' to me, and I don't care.

That was how I saw it, and I explained it all. Take my critique or leave it, it doenst become less valid because I don't have vids of me vs a high level ZSS. Tell me that my opinion is worthless because I lack vids, and I won't care. I'll still critique that match like I saw it. Alternatively, click my name to the left and hit 'ignore', save yourself some effort.
If you want him to see your post you at least need to write out the name he uses on Smashboards...

It doesn't matter if it's ZSS high level or not. I want to see the playstyle you hyping up. That's all man talk is cheap.
I'm not that good yet, but I am getting better. That's why I was refraining from mentioning anything about the MU because I don't know it well. What I do know is that he started playing horribly after that spike. In no way am I good enough to tell him that he is playing Mewtwo wrong or any such thing. He is arguably the best Mewtwo, so we should probably be asking him for advice...
 

Browny

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Try not to feel that way Sonicninja115 Sonicninja115 just because you might not be on his level doesnt mean you arent qualified to give advice or even let your opinion be known.

Since he lost, he obviously has room for improvement and often its very difficult for people to see their own flaws and if people dont point it out to them, they may not notice how glaring it is to other people.

The best players will either accept the criticism or ignore it and prove you wrong by doing something else and winning next time. Only when they win, can they say that you were wrong. But if we spur people on to prove us wrong and win next time, then we have done something useful.
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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Try not to feel that way Sonicninja115 Sonicninja115 just because you might not be on his level doesnt mean you arent qualified to give advice or even let your opinion be known.

Since he lost, he obviously has room for improvement and often its very difficult for people to see their own flaws and if people dont point it out to them, they may not notice how glaring it is to other people.

The best players will either accept the criticism or ignore it and prove you wrong by doing something else and winning next time. Only when they win, can they say that you were wrong. But if we spur people on to prove us wrong and win next time, then we have done something useful.

I can't really believe you man.
 

Sonicninja115

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I am more of a technical player, and I am working on reading and other mental fundamentals, but Mewsquared wasn't playing bad at all, he got flustered and rattled. I am pretty sure that almostlegendary will agree with me.
Try not to feel that way Sonicninja115 Sonicninja115 just because you might not be on his level doesnt mean you arent qualified to give advice or even let your opinion be known.

Since he lost, he obviously has room for improvement and often its very difficult for people to see their own flaws and if people dont point it out to them, they may not notice how glaring it is to other people.

The best players will either accept the criticism or ignore it and prove you wrong by doing something else and winning next time. Only when they win, can they say that you were wrong. But if we spur people on to prove us wrong and win next time, then we have done something useful.
Hey, A AlMoStLeGeNdArY , I saw your video of fighting tweek with your diddy kong, Have you done any more streamed tourneys since then? and have you won any with Mewtwo yet?
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I am more of a technical player, and I am working on reading and other mental fundamentals, but Mewsquared wasn't playing bad at all, he got flustered and rattled. I am pretty sure that almostlegendary will agree with me.


Hey, A AlMoStLeGeNdArY , I saw your video of fighting tweek with your diddy kong, Have you done any more streamed tourneys since then? and have you won any with Mewtwo yet?
Umm, I was on stream the week after that tournament and didn't do too hot. The only matches of my mewtwo are me VS Emblem Lord's ryu. My local lost it's location so it's been a bit rough for me tourney wise. No tournament wins with mewtwo. I doubt I'll win any with him the best player in my region is way too good. I may go to a tournament Saturday hopefully I can do well.
 

Sonicninja115

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Watching this makes me realize i need to be much more patient when playing Mewtwo.
Also, i'm way too grab-happy. This guy rarely goes for a grab (compared to me), but when he does, he lands most of them.
You also have to realize that he has been playing Mewtwo for barely a month. He is really good already!
 

meleebrawler

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Watching this makes me realize i need to be much more patient when playing Mewtwo.
Also, i'm way too grab-happy. This guy rarely goes for a grab (compared to me), but when he does, he lands most of them.
Indeed Mewtwo isn't as grab-reliant as his two kill throws can lead you to believe. They certainly aren't his main damage-dealing tools (even if fthrow is quite good at it), rather they mostly just serve as standard ways to beat shields and give Mewtwo a whole lot of space to think and charge Shadow Balls with.
 

Karsticles

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Ginko uses mewtwo in game 2.

https://youtu.be/6yru1aMldQU
I think this is close to the ideal of how Mewtwo should be played. Here are some recent uploads I made. I think the Pac-man match solidifies it as bad for us; I had no idea Pac-man could heal from Shadow Ball. :-/

Falcon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VfoH6KfnOg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-4cL-ppYsk

Fox:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIM2NATidJg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcCZBL89dmE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3pGca6YuPw

Little Mac:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJR5ZNFQo_A

Villager:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxPvlrWM9d0

I also have a 20 second 2-stock video that I will upload later.
 
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AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I think this is close to the ideal of how Mewtwo should be played. Here are some recent uploads I made. I think the Pac-man match solidifies it as bad for us; I had no idea Pac-man could heal from Shadow Ball. :-/

Falcon:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5VfoH6KfnOg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-4cL-ppYsk

Fox:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIM2NATidJg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcCZBL89dmE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3pGca6YuPw

Little Mac:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJR5ZNFQo_A

Villager:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxPvlrWM9d0

I also have a 20 second 2-stock video that I will upload later.
I like his mewtwo and I may try to use his style a bit.

I went to a tournament yesterday and my mewtwo got boped. I played one friendly set with him vs a ROB and played one match with him in tourney. I lost faith in him pretty quickly.
 

Karsticles

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I like his mewtwo and I may try to use his style a bit.

I went to a tournament yesterday and my mewtwo got boped. I played one friendly set with him vs a ROB and played one match with him in tourney. I lost faith in him pretty quickly.
I feel like Rob is roughly even; what issues were you having?
 
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meleebrawler

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gyro was giving me a lot of trouble and his laser goes through shadowball.
For the most part you don't really use Mewtwo's usual tools for dealing with zoning in this match. Gyros are better off shielded to prevent ROB from picking them up or of course catching them is even better and really neuters his ranged game. Don't bother reflecting them unless the ROB is very predictable. Charged lasers for the most part are the only thing worth reflecting.

What you should be more worried about is ROB's aggressive spacing game if he opens you up with said zoning game, because that alone only gets ROB so far.
 

Karsticles

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gyro was giving me a lot of trouble and his laser goes through shadowball.
IMO, there are two ways to play Mewtwo, based on the matchup:
1) Use uncharged Shadow Ball to control space and own the neutral; tilts and grabs are key.
2) Make charged Shadow Ball your main goal; try to bait out attacks and punish with Shadow Ball.

ROB, IMO, falls into the second category (almost anyone with a reflect does). Uncharged Shadow Ball is easily canceled by the Gyro, and then you have to trade hits with the laser, and it's not a good trade. Instead, you want to charge Shadow Ball all the way, which scares your opponent. Then you play a mobile game with lots of tilts, keeping Confusion available to reflect the laser. Save Shadow Ball for big punishes and baits.

I would generally say that any match where you really want Confusion available is one where you should play in style 2, as well. So there are two reasons to play this away against ROB. If you play in style 1, you're never going to have Confusion available since you are using uncharged Shadow Ball during your free frames.
 

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Had some pretty interesting matches today. :4mewtwo:

VS Roy (Pulled off a 56% string! :D)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-49eWDVlM44&ab_channel=HakuryuVision

VS Captain Falcon
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eON760_VaxI&ab_channel=HakuryuVision

VS Link
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDDYKAB-InY&ab_channel=HakuryuVision

VS Diddy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXWoLCfkpYQ&ab_channel=HakuryuVision

Critique & advice would be more than appreciated! : )
(-i am aware though that i'm way too grab-happy, and mess up b-reversals a lot)
 
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meleebrawler

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I'll link my matches because I feel I need the experience for these MUs. I feel like I know what I'm supposed to do but it generally feels gawky.

Sonic & Sheik:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k4jBuxhJsNY

Fox in Game 1:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gJ2SuYCAszM

I wouldn't mind any criticism, but I'm honestly looking for advice.
For Sonic I'd try to get more charged balls ready; having them will make him more scared to spin generally giving you more time to think. Anytime you land a throw or otherwise get him away from you, you should be charging if you don't have one ready. This applies to most characters with good disadvantage too. Don't chase after him too much unless you know he's vulnerable because, well, he's the fastest character in the game and thus will not only escape you easily but punish almost every commitment you make trying to get him. And don't underestimate the utility of dsmash's low endlag to deter ground approaches.

For Fox use your shield liberally when high in percent since he has trouble landing his kill moves on that. Keeping a charged ball goes double here since you can scare him into random reflects that you can punish.
 

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For Sonic I'd try to get more charged balls ready; having them will make him more scared to spin generally giving you more time to think. Anytime you land a throw or otherwise get him away from you, you should be charging if you don't have one ready. This applies to most characters with good disadvantage too. Don't chase after him too much unless you know he's vulnerable because, well, he's the fastest character in the game and thus will not only escape you easily but punish almost every commitment you make trying to get him. And don't underestimate the utility of dsmash's low endlag to deter ground approaches.

For Fox use your shield liberally when high in percent since he has trouble landing his kill moves on that. Keeping a charged ball goes double here since you can scare him into random reflects that you can punish.
For Sonic, I see where you're coming from with the idea of shooting larger Shadow Balls, since the smaller ones can't touch Sonic when he's rolling around. It's just that against an aggressive Sonic player, I feel like there are moments where I need to inflict damage instead of waiting until it's at a medium-charged level to use. I'll keep this in mind next time to improve. Thanks for the tips! :D
 

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I'm so upset about patch 1.1.2. I was so ready to upload a video of me getting JV 3 stocked by this Mewtwo on Dreamland. Now Jiggs isn't one of my best characters but it's definitely a casual filter. Anyway, never playing Jigglypuff again. Even then I had to pull out my main for multiple games before getting a game on this guy. He was inputting so many actions into each other.

Of course his name was mango.
 

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I really enjoyed Sparky's aggro Mewtwo. Those dair set ups were cool, a shame 80% wiffed. He was pretty good with the fairs too.
 

Sonicninja115

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This match is great, Mewsquared makes great use of wave SB and jab combos. Probably the most technical Mewtwo set I have seen.
Mewsquared gets rekked. But hey, it's a Shiek and it is Denti, what can you do?
 

Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
2,429
Aside from the rolls which were driving me insane when done playing the match cause i caught on that i was doing them, I would like any other helpful advice you guys could give in the MU thanks in advance.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsF_qBwJ4nk Mewtwo vs ZSS
I really like your use of wave SB.

The only thing I noticed was that you almost always went for jab, which is great, but it might be good to mix it up with Dtilt and Utilt for the possible combo and easy damage.
 

PEACE7

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
2,213
Location
Training Mode
I really like your use of wave SB.

The only thing I noticed was that you almost always went for jab, which is great, but it might be good to mix it up with Dtilt and Utilt for the possible combo and easy damage.
Thank you very much dude! Yea i know what you mean now ill try and utilize that uptilt more now
 

meleebrawler

Smash Hero
Joined
Sep 8, 2014
Messages
8,156
Location
Canada, Quebec
NNID
meleebrawler
3DS FC
2535-3888-1548
Using the very UNDERRATED character of Mewtwo against Ike. A hard match up for Mewtwo in my opinion. Feedback is always appreciated as well! Enjoy : )

https://youtu.be/Af9DdAHBfDE
When you are recovering, try to take advantage of the fact you can hang out there longer than most so that you can evade your opponent when they come out after you more easily.
 

DrizzyDrew

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 28, 2013
Messages
970
Location
Popstar, NJ
Switch FC
SW-3772-7996-8482
When you are recovering, try to take advantage of the fact you can hang out there longer than most so that you can evade your opponent when they come out after you more easily.
Your right. I usually just try and get back on as soon as possible, but maybe using a confusion if they are trying to go off the stage and attack me, mixed with the double jump and spike could be interesting.
 
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