vs. Doctor Mario

[technomancer]

So I have some problems with Doc. AKA I went like 0-20 vs. my friend's Doc today, and I was wondering what the deal is.

#1: Pills. Yoshi's jab can block them, and he can eat them with B-air, but that really just sets me up for a quick down or forward smash. Shielding is bad due to grabbing. Attempting to DjCC through is weak, CCing is meh, what do I do here?
#2: Can't spotdodge a baseball slide.
#3: More difficult to edgeguard than he seems. Instant edgehog is pretty solid, but his up-b seems to poon my dtilt 100% of the time, and is pretty lagless.


Anyway, I feel I need to be alot more preemptive against Doc and I have difficulty comboing and keeping pressure because he's dangerous in the air. I also have no clue what to do when I get a grab off. Halp?

 

[rmusgrave]

Grabs are pretty useless against Doc. Downthrow to eggthrow = your best bet if you do grab.

I suppose the trick to this is being pretty rudimentary. If he goes airborne, dash attack him, or get under him and up-air/up-smash him. If he's spacing b-airs on you, your best bet is the RDJC but you have to time it right because his b-air has loooong range and is out for quite a while.

Pills are dodgeable. That's your best bet. Even if you have to jump straight up then quickly DJC away from him to avoid a pill approach, its better than getting pill approached. Also, if you keep the pressure on him, it prevents the use of pills to a large extent. Just watch the pills bounce, and jump over them if they're gonna be low when they get to you, or dash under and dash attack etc if they are high when they get to you.

His dash attack is annoying yes, and combined with pills its difficult to counter. Best bet again is to just jump over it or if you don't have time, roll behind him like a noob. If you can see it coming, I think d-smash is fast enough and has enough priority to beat it out.

Yeah, his up-b. Edgehog him is your best bet, and if you can time it right, you should be able to get up off the edge while he's up-bing onto the stage. Then, downsmash him and abuse his bad recovery distance again. Timing is everything in this though, you have to make sure you use your invincible frames well.

Hope that helps, I don't have much Doc experience so I can't really say anymore.

 

[Bloshi]

For the pills, just mix up your reactions. You have to play some serious mindgames with these things or else he'll be able to set you up for combos every time he spams them. I vary my response alot, sometimes I even just walk forward and take a pill to the face like a Yoshi.

Now that I think of it Doc is pretty hard to edgeguard. Try jumping behind him while facing the stage and attempt a meteor smash with fair. If he hugs the stage for a sweetspot, jump back and downb. Hopefully you'll get there in time. I've never tried this, see if it works for me OK?

To get him while he's in the air, try and usmash him. Nothing gets through that. Bair works pretty well too, as long as he's not bairing as well.

 

[technomancer]

If he hugs the stage for a sweetspot, jump back and downb. Hopefully you'll get there in time. I've never tried this, see if it works for me OK?

To get him while he's in the air, try and usmash him. Nothing gets through that. Bair works pretty well too, as long as he's not bairing as well.

Thanks bringer and Blosh, great advice for the pills. A big problem I'm having is that I'm afraid to shield them, and generally they're being launched while I'm doing something so I don't have much time to react, so I just end up eating alot of them. Giving Doc a grab is a bigger no-no, but sometimes the combos that follow are just as bad.

I actually tried to down-B edgehog him a couple times today from an RdJ, with mixed success; it doesn't really kill too well, but if you get the hog it's sweet. Ooh, question, if I run off the side and nair, can I make it back? I've tried and failed many a time.

The Usmash is solid, but doesn't kill until 120% at least, which is knocking down your weight advantage. Doc can also just double jump around it and FF a Fair or Bair which is really hard for Yoshi to deal with on limited time, and basically allows him to reset and Pill at you again. Also, if there's a pill out and Doc's approaching from the air, it's hard to react, because again Doc can chase you with a Fair or Bair.

I was also having mixed sucess with interrupting a rising pill with a full-jump Fair, something I saw in a Seba video, but didn't know how to follow up (need to work on my tech-chasing).


Anyway, I'm going to work on the matchup. I'll try to figure out how to consistantly get a low percent stock taken off of Doc, preferably using RDjC nair to dtilt and chasing from there. My technical was pretty off this weekend and there was some TV lag (it's a huge projection HDTV or something), but no Johns, need to know how to beat Docs.

 

[Shiri]

If you've got super technical hands and real good timing, you can supershield to WD out of pills.

LOL, you can really do it but I don't know how practical it is. I haven't fought Doc in a long long time and I really don't like the matchup, but I did learn that even supershielding one pill out of every five is enough to get you a wavedash into a down or forward tilt.

And you can short hop off the stage, neutral air, and get back, but you can't run off. You can also experiment with fastfall timing to fastfall neutral an opponent that's kinda low and still make it back.

Oh, speaking of neutral air, something you might wanna try (it's a bit unorthodox, I dunno) against pills is to short hop neutral air in reverse towards your opponent. Yoshi's neutral air gets almost disjoint behind him, so you can use that as a pseudo-approach to go through pills and low priority defense moves from Doc. No guarantees on that one, though. I play like a moron, so I always go for the goofy stuff. Feel free to experiment with it, though.

And yes, baseball slide sucks. I have had bad luck crouch canceling this move, as I usually get upsmashed immediately afterwards. I...really don't like this move. Can't offer anything here except the usual "don't get hit by it" nonsense.

 

[YOSHIDO]

I'll be facing my friends Revamped doc saturday. I'll let yall know how it goes. Were probably recordin too.

 

[technomancer]

Doc just has so much stuff, it seems like it's obvious, like go around the pills, or duck or jump, but there's baseball slides and grabs and smashes and bairs and fairs to catch you wherever you go, and once you've backed up too much you're out of space. I guess the trick might just be to be so aggressive that Doc can't set up shop, but that's difficult because his sex and bair are very fast w/ priorities and stuff. I'm interested in using the Fthrow more to give you a touch of advantage and push him closer to the edge for gimping, because the other throws are kind of mediocre, 'cept the upthrow->utilt occasionally.

 

[technomancer]

I'd like to revamp this thread and ask some of the more experienced Yoshi's how to dominate Doc once you have an advantage, like when you force him to tech. The big thing here is that Yoshi is just a touch too slow to tech-chase with, and his follow up on a tech-chase grab is terrible. Also, if you approach from the air, Doc can either use his attack wakeup, uptilt, or upair to beat out everything you have except your slow Dair which he can shieldgrab easily, or at low % just grab you out of anyway if it hits. Fair doesn't combo into anything that KOs against Doc, either, so you'll usually just land a Uair.

It seems like the only time you can really fight Doc better than he can fight you are when your combos are in style at low percents, with sexy stuff like Fair RDjC nair dtilt to gimp.

AAAAAaggh frustrating matchup

 

[cavesonic13]

down tilts will not be your friend if you don't think of them as your friend...

side tilts are always good

up airs to juggle

eggs..... a lot of them...

just...neutral air a lot...I mean, I have played many docs that are pretty evrage yes, I might have hard time sometimes...but...its quite simple...plus if you can deal with a Mario just get used to a Doc Mario, don't grab, so far that I've noticed its good to kinda keep doc mario of the ground....and if he is in the ground just down tilt and try to always hit, just time everything right, MINDGAMES HELP A LOT

and when their of the edge, if your ever able to land an egg and you are able to either down tilt or down smash, it will instantly be a KO because doc gets sent far enough for him not to be able to recover

 

[St. Viers]

also, some things my brother does to me with Yoshi (I main Doc, and even though he "doesn't really use Yoshi" he makes me fight hard)

If the Doc is spotdodge happy, feel free to just dash attack, yoshi's attack lasts long enough to hit them if they roll/spotdodge. Its useful once or twice, before the opponent catches on.

Doc's recovery is horrible. Just grab the ledge and edgehog. The landing lag from Docs up is noticable, and easy to punish, especially as he can't really land far from the edge.

Some words of warning...about pills (of course)
If they full jump a pill, they can WD by the time they reach the ground, or down-smash. Try to run under them and hit them don't just dodge the pill.

Something that I like to do as Doc is to use the pill as a means of messing up aerial approaches. Just jump towards them and pill, and unless facing a disjointed hitbox Docs pill will negate your attack, and usually this catchs people by surprise.

--Hope the help from the other side helps !!

 

[Winnar]

I moved the mini-guide to...

Here! :D

 

[Deleted member]

Dang winnar. And i thought u were a noob Are you sure Shiri isnt on your account, cuz that was a long post. Thanks a lot (i dont play too many docs, but at least i have this knowledge).

 

[Winnar]

Dang winnar. And i thought u were a noob

Ahahaha, ouch. I feel a little burnt right now XD I may not know many character matchups, but I play against Doc extensively.

That isn't to say I win extensively, but when I do win, I usually make a quick note in my head for future reference of why I think I won.

 

[Shiri]

...

HO

LY

SHNAP

**falls down**

**applause**

 

[Winnar]

<_< I finished it.

Sorry about the length. >_>

 

[Deleted member]

Very nice Winnnar. For edgegaurding doc, id say u are wrong. Egg him, if he capes, then go fair him afterward cuz if he capes again he loses height. If he takes the hit, egg him again. I like to instant edgehog, then if it looks like he will try to get u, drop off the edge and bair him. Then DJ back up. It works all the time (usually), cuz bair beats his up b. Besides that its excellent.

 

[Winnar]

I updated the Edgeguarding topic to include sweetspotters.

That's a good idea <_< I dunno how that would work against the Doc I play against...

Anyway, I created a new topic for it (or will). I dunno, it just felt so out of place >_>