VOTE: Team Real or Team Fake on the Grinch Leak

[Dan]

Also, all the Grinch art is new and unique... this is real.

 

[Sharpshot64plus]

I believe this is true since not just was the leakerunaware unaware he was leaking it but aside from olimars shadow the leak is almost perfect.What realy summents this is the never before seen grinch artwork "That he couldn't and would have no reason to fake".Which the final thing that makes this almost guaranteed is the he is just a random guy from an obscure French company that upon further research does work for bandi-namco.

 

[Sharpshot64plus]

Who do you want?

 

[staindgrey]

Here I come, rougher than the rest of them
The best of them, tougher than leather
You can call me Knuckles, unlike Sonic I don't chuckle
I'd rather flex my muscles

I'm hard as nails, it ain't hard to tell
I break 'em down whether they're solid or frail
Unlike the rest I'm independent since my first breath
First test, feel the right, than the worst's left

Born on an island in the heavens
The blood of my ancestors flows inside me
My duty is to save the flower
From evil deterioration

I will be the one to set your heart free, true
Cleanse yourself of them evil spirits that's in you

Streaking lights, loud sounds, and instincts
Are the elements that keep me going
I am fighting my own mission
Nothing's gonna stand in my way

I will be the one to set your heart free, true
Cleanse yourself of them evil spirits that's in you

Won't be frightened, I'll stand up to all the pain and turmoil
Just believe in myself, won't rely on others
Get this power to wipe out the havoc and anarchy
This is my planet, gonna fight for my destiny

Here I come, rougher than the rest of them
The best of them, tougher than leather
You can call me Knuckles, unlike Sonic I don't chuckle
I'd rather flex my muscles

I'm hard as nails, it ain't hard to tell
I break 'em down whether they're solid or frail
Unlike the rest I'm independent since my first breath
First test, feel the right, than the worst's left

I have no such things as weak spots
Don't approve of him, but gotta trust him
This alliance has a purpose
This partnership is only temporary

I will be the one to set your heart free, true
Cleanse yourself of evil spirits that got in you

Won't be frightened, I'll stand up to all the pain and turmoil
Just believe in myself, won't rely on others
Freedom will be waiting when serenity is restored
This is my planet, I shall not surrender

Won't be frightened, I'll stand up to all the pain and turmoil
Just believe in myself, won't rely on others
Get this power to wipe out the havoc and anarchy
This is my planet, gonna fight

Won't be frightened, I'll stand up to all the pain and turmoil
Just believe in myself, won't rely on others
Freedom will be waiting when serenity is restored
This is my planet, I shall not surrender

The new porcupine on the block with the buff chest
In the wilderness with the ruggedness
Knock, knock, it's Knuckles, the bloat thrower
Independent flower, Magical Emerald holder
I'll give you the coldest shoulder
My spikes go through boulders
That's why I stay a loner

I was born by myself, I don't need a posse
I get it on by myself, advisories get shelved

Here I come, faster than the rest of them
The best of them, edgier than ever
You can call me Shadow, unlike Sonic I'm not shallow
Oh! Rub that burn with aloe

Chaos Control, my fate is foretold
I shoot 'em all down then I **** and reload
Unlike the rest I'm the ultimate life form
Bet the farm, firearms, settin' off alarms

Born in a test tube in the heavens
My memory of Maria guides me
My duty is to be an edge lord
Where's my Smash invitation?

I'm just a "dark Sonic", guess that's true
But ****in' Dark Pit's in here too

I don't really feel like doing the rest.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I'm assuming you'll see the light as the day goes on, but here's one morsel of evidence (in a bleeping pyramid):

...I would make my LinkedIn private too if I found out my name were on something like this. What do you mean "the company printing all of this"? All of what?

 

[Crystanium]

I'm on the side of Team Bull****. I find it peculiar that the demands people have been repeating ad nauseam with the same old dream roster (Banjo & Kazooie, Geno, Chorus Kids, &c.) would end up in the final product. Even if such is the case, none of the characters are interesting to me.

 

[Khao]

I'm assuming you'll see the light as the day goes on, but here's one morsel of evidence (in a bleeping pyramid):

That does change things quite a bit if true. I believe you, but do you have a source to check it out for myself?

Either way, I don't think that' enough reason to think this is real with complete certainty. It's still fakable.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I'm sure your money won't be missed.

Why are you booing him? He's right. These as the newcomers would suck.

Watch GameXPlain's video. They totally debunked it. If this guy truly was part of the marketing division, he wouldn't have a copy of the poster yet. Even Nintendo's own employees were completely unaware of Smash. Sakurai has kept this entirely under wrap. Also the image is super blurry....yet again....and the shadowing and placements are inconsistant.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Watch GameXPlain's video. They totally debunked it. If this guy truly was part of the marketing division, he wouldn't have a copy of the poster yet. Even Nintendo's own employees were completely unaware of Smash. Sakurai has kept this entirely under wrap. Also the image is super blurry....yet again....and the shadowing and placements are inconsistant.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

It's still fakable.

Especially by a graphic designer.

 

[Dan]

Watch GameXPlain's video. They totally debunked it. If this guy truly was part of the marketing division, he wouldn't have a copy of the poster yet. Even Nintendo's own employees were completely unaware of Smash. Sakurai has kept this entirely under wrap. Also the image is super blurry....yet again....and the shadowing and placements are inconsistant.

This is an outside French printing company; there are renders for the new Grinch movie in the background that have yet to be seen by the public. Either you are hardcore trolling or just ignorant. All GX did was say it was blurry; go watch PapaGenos and get educated by someone who spent more than 5 minutes on their video and didn't just rush it out.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

This is an outside French printing company; there are renders for the new Grinch movie in the background that have yet to be seen by the public. Either you are hardcore trolling or just ignorant. All GX did was say it was blurry; go watch PapaGenos and get educated by someone who spent more than 5 minutes on their video and didn't just rush it out.

(Sorry for the double post, not sure how that happened)

Being blurry is exactly the point. Sure, the Grinch thing is something to be talked about, but notice how all leaks involve blurry screenshots or terrible photo shoots, and after each announcement they all end up wrong. Same thing with this one. The problem is they're probably using the Grinch status as a means of making the leak more credible. People purposefully put blurs on their photos so no one can tell that they cropped images from the internet on it. Also notice how it's placed on it's side. Wouldn't it be better to have it normal? This person clearly didn't want anyone to tell that it's a fake and used their status to make it seem otherwise.

 

[Dan]

(Sorry for the double post, not sure how that happened)

Being blurry is exactly the point. Sure, the Grinch thing is something to be talked about, but notice how all leaks involve blurry screenshots or terrible photo shoots, and after each announcement they all end up wrong. Same thing with this one. The problem is they're probably using the Grinch status as a means of making the leak more credible. People purposefully put blurs on their photos so no one can tell that they cropped images from the internet on it. Also notice how it's placed on it's side. Wouldn't it be better to have it normal? This person clearly didn't want anyone to tell that it's a fake and used their status to make it seem otherwise.

Blurriness doesn't deconfirm anything; I will admit neither side can prove anything, but I'm with the majority that this is overwhelmingly leading toward real: it's a real company with a real person... the amount of hoops that would have had to been jumped through to fake this is insane.

 

[pap64]

Not gonna lie, when I read this leak this morning I quickly called it FAKE because of two main reasons;
1. It was WAY too blurry to make anything out thus they could have put in Shrek or Goku and none would be the wiser

2. This sounds WAY too good to be true

I know that all the characters that were "leaked" have been long rumored, expected and more, but I only expected one of them to be in as the hype character and that was Geno, and even then I still thought "he may not make it in". Usually Smash likes to mess with expectations and give us a mix of characters we want (like Bowser, Peach etc in Melee, Wario and Pit in Brawl etc.) and characters we either didn't want or didn't expect (Pichu, Mr. Game and Watch, Duck Hunt). The final characters in this leak are literally out of a Smash fan's dream; a roster literally 20 years in the making. Even if Sakurai proudly exclaimed that he would do the impossible possible to make people happy with Ultimate, this seemed a little too much.

But now, I am on team "real" (which in my honest opinion I am team grey area), because if this is a fake leak, then the leaker did an AMAZING job of creating evidence that looks and feels real. Usually leaks are so poorly created that right away you can tell it's a bad fake leak (Prime Guide leak for example). But not only do we have brand new assets that align with what we have seen so far, there is even more evidence of this coming out of an official source that makes me believe it may indeed be real. Once again, if this is fake, I wouldn't be mad at all, I would CONGRATULATE the man for doing a beyond incredible job because asides from creating new assets from the ground up, he created a whole backstory that leads to a real company, hence why I am team "real" until proven otherwise; no leaker would go THAT far to troll anyone. But again this is the internet so who knows.

So for now...hmmm yeah, it's real...I guess...who knows...

 

[jwillenn]

Thanks for the warning! "Team Fake" Image removed!

 

[Mogisthelioma]

https://twitter.com/MrNantendo/status/1055206265964716042

Total debunk. All of the photo shopping and editing right there.

 

[Crystanium]

Honestly, I doubt this would even pass as evidence in the court of law. "It's an image! It's evidence!" Never mind that people have made bull**** in the past. Rayman for SSB4, and in the game CSS no less! People are so gullible. You might as well believe in UFOs or bigfoot.

 

[Uffe]

Blurriness doesn't deconfirm anything; I will admit neither side can prove anything, but I'm with the majority that this is overwhelmingly leading toward real: it's a real company with a real person... the amount of hoops that would have had to been jumped through to fake this is insane.

But it's for the side who is saying it's legit to prove that. In this day and age, there is no excuse for blurred photos. And if you think someone wouldn't go out of their way to fake something, did you forget about ArtsyOmni from Smashified who created fake leaked Ray Man for Sm4sh?

 

[Dan]

https://twitter.com/MrNantendo/status/1055206265964716042

Total debunk. All of the photo shopping and editing right there.

It only showed an example of how it can be done (not how this particular leak was done), so not a total debunk; stop trying to bait people with stuff like that.

Sakurai's word doesn't mean much considering he said Ridley would never be in Smash and could just be trying to surprise us, but some of the latter points were enlightening and well taken; I'm always open to be educated and am not here to be a stubborn mule.

But it's for the side who is saying it's legit to prove that. In this day and age, there is no excuse for blurred photos. And if you think someone wouldn't go out of their way to fake something, did you forget about ArtsyOmni from Smashified who created fake leaked Ray Man for Sm4sh?

It could be someone who isn't an obsessed Smashboards user that took the photo just cause they were familiar with the game; who is to say a crystal clear picture is essential for a leak to be real?

All I'm saying is the fact this concerns real identities with a real company inside a real building is one step beyond Rayman, and imo, the ESRB leak.

 

[Swaggy-G]

https://twitter.com/MrNantendo/status/1055206265964716042

Total debunk. All of the photo shopping and editing right there.

This isn't a debunk, this is saying "It could have been faked, so it must be faked."

 

[MERPIS]

MERPIS WRONG ! Bowser Jr & Koopalings ride a clown car

Not a real vehicle, it has weapons up the ass. Mach rider is on a regular old motorbike exclusively without anything on it except for maybe a gun

Why are you booing him? He's right. These as the newcomers would suck.

Watch GameXPlain's video. They totally debunked it. If this guy truly was part of the marketing division, he wouldn't have a copy of the poster yet. Even Nintendo's own employees were completely unaware of Smash. Sakurai has kept this entirely under wrap. Also the image is super blurry....yet again....and the shadowing and placements are inconsistant.

B I A S
Get that out of here GameXplain is a load of garbage and I guess so is most people who believe their bull

 

[Sudz]

I want it to be real just because it'd BTFO everybody's favorite attention-seeking """leaker""" prophets. Incineroar is trash.

I don't want any of those new characters whatsoever, though. Maybe Banjo would be kind of neat.

 

[Dan]

Honestly, who would fake a leak with a wristband and Grinch stickers?

And Nintendo YouTube just dropped a pointless Ultimate trailer for no reason; damage control much?

 

[MERPIS]

Honestly, who would fake a leak with a wristband and Grinch stickers?

And Nintendo YouTube just dropped a pointless Ultimate trailer for no reason; damage control much?

It's a sign of the times to come.

 

[TheAJJohnson]

It's real unless you believe someone thought out planting a profanity laden 4Chan post weeks in advance of spoofing a little known French marketing agency's office and obscure employee on top of faking a wristband and photoshopping the images on it. Anyone who says team fake on this is just being contrarian. Even if the catastrophically small chance it is fake turns out to be the case, it's pure dumb luck because the circumstantial evidence is overwhelming.

Amen.




Usually people are quick to point everything wrong with a leak within hours. Here we are, with every major Smash-related channel, blogger, YouTuber, etc., analyzing this stupid thing and the best arguments people have come up with are: 1) that the shadows are off, 2) the picture is blurry, and 3) it's too good to be true. Let's tackle all of these.

1. Given that there are extremely resourceful and intelligent people that are able to dissect image leaks - even some that have the ability to find out where portions of an image come from - I find the whole “the shadows are off” argument pretty week. Is there nothing better we can dissect from this picture to proof that it's fake? Given the substantial amount of evidence that supports this being true, namely the person that leaked this, where he works, the environment the picture is from, the near-impossibility of creating an image of the banner background without any characters on it - not to mention the leak a month ago that has the exact same character predictions and goes contrary to what a lot of popular leakers are/were saying - I think the proof outweighs “the shadows are off.”
2. I do find it funny that each leak picture is taken with what seems to be the crappiest phone camera on planet Earth, but this time around it makes sense. Have you ever taken a picture on Snapchat? The image quality sucks. On top of that, the image quality is actually pretty crisp all things considered, it's not until you zoom in that everything becomes super blurry. That's just picture resolution 101.
3. In regards to those who are saying it's too good to be true, I feel you. You don't want to be let down, something I totally understand. I've been wanting Isaac to be in Smash Bros ever since I played Golden Sun. Any glimmer of hope I try to rationalize out of existence so I can keep my feet on the ground. But look at where we're at now. Cloud is in this game. Bayonetta and Snake are in this game. Ridley is too good to be true. King K. Rool is too good to be true. Every single character coming back is too good to be true! 103, possibly 108, stages is absolutely mad! There is nothing outside the realm of possibility when it comes to this game.

Until home slice comes out and says JK, #TeamReal.

 

[Uffe]

It could be someone who isn't an obsessed Smashboards user that took the photo just cause they were familiar with the game; who is to say a crystal clear picture is essential for a leak to be real?

All I'm saying is the fact this concerns real identities with a real company inside a real building is one step beyond Rayman, and imo, the ESRB leak.

Who is obsessed? You're right. The image could be clearer and it still wouldn't be proof that it's real. But why are photos often blurred or out of focus when it comes to providing evidence of something that is usually false? Like big foot, UFOs, or the Loch Ness Monster? Especially in 2018 where even camera phones should have better quality than they did before? The Grinch could have been added as a way of trying to present the leak as true. If it's real, it's real, and I'll accept it. However, until then, I will remain skeptical of all leaks until proven otherwise.

 

[Kevandre]

I'll be flat-out shocked if it turns out to be a fake. Sakurai's whole ambition with Ultimate is basically fan-wish fulfillment. He straight up said at E3 that Ridley was due to western fan demand. He clearly took a lot of cue from the Smash 4 speculation cycle to begin with, with that game's DLC as well as Ultimate's already-confirmed content.

"Too good to be true" is what I would have said if it were leaked beforehand that every fighter, including Squirtle and Ivysaur, were coming back to Smash Bros in the next game. I'd have said that if you told me that K. Rool and Ridley were in the game. At this point, I'm just rolling with everything Sakurai puts in there. Nothing in this leak feels unrealistic at all.

Despite its blurriness, I think there's a lot of quality work on the banner. That would have taken hours and hours to put together. That said, I also believed the Rayman leak and didn't believe the ESRB leak, so maybe I'm not the best guy to ask on these things. But I think this leak looks, walks, and quacks like a duck, man.

https://twitter.com/MrNantendo/status/1055206265964716042

Total debunk. All of the photo shopping and editing right there.

I read this earlier and it is in absolutely no way a debunk... His arguments are basically all "It can't be this because it SHOULD be this!" I was kind of surprised Omni shared it to begin with.



I'm a little surprised people aren't hyped on the characters in the leak? They're pretty much all incredible selections

 

[Dan]

Yeah. This doesn't seem realistic. Well, I don't think that we are getting 7 more characters, all of whom barring Mach Rider are either heavily requested characters or highly expected characters. There's also, like you said, the issue involving the spacing of the reveals. They would have to cram 5 trailers into one direct that will pretty much be packed with content (including the mystery mode, the online modes, the rest of the singleplayer content, and the Vault features will most likely be shown off in this direct).

I like how people continuously ignore the surrounding factors (the most important part of the leak) just because they don't like the quantity of characters or the ones chosen.

I'm on the side of Team Bull****. I find it peculiar that the demands people have been repeating ad nauseam with the same old dream roster (Banjo & Kazooie, Geno, Chorus Kids, &c.) would end up in the final product. Even if such is the case, none of the characters are interesting to me.

Yeah, how bizarre characters people actually wanted got in the game that started with Ridley, Belmont and Rool; I was really hoping they would just finish with Ken, Incineroar and maybe one more character that no one wanted.

No one ever wanted Chorus Kids; that's a scrapped Smash 4 character. The only reason that ever got on people's minds is cause Sakurai forced it on people.

So who's interesting to you? These final seven hit a bit of everything; do you need more sword fighters or something?

Who is obsessed? You're right. The image could be clearer and it still wouldn't be proof that it's real. But why are photos often blurred or out of focus when it comes to providing evidence of something that is usually false? Like big foot, UFOs, or the Loch Ness Monster? Especially in 2018 where even camera phones should have better quality than they did before? The Grinch could have been added as a way of trying to present the leak as true. If it's real, it's real, and I'll accept it. However, until then, I will remain skeptical of all leaks until proven otherwise.

I'm obsessed; I've literally spent the last 6 hours researching this.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I'm a little surprised people aren't hyped on the characters in the leak? They're pretty much all incredible selections

No Skull Kid. And yet Mach Rider?

 

[Oddball]

No Skull Kid. And yet Mach Rider?

You know, there are people out there that would rather see Mach Rider playable than Skull Kid.

 

[nirvanafan]

Alright, these are just the points I think will be most obvious to the layman's eyes. I see significantly more issues than just these.

A.) The infamous smear is not on the official image.

B.) A small, dark cloud that is entirely absent from the leaked image.

C.) The shape of the water curves upward on the leaked image but continues straight on the official. Plus I'm not sure I see any evidence of the castle in the leaked image.

D.) This entire cloud on the official image seems to be missing and replaced with just blue sky on the leaked image.

E.) The shape of the cloud is different, with a clean diagonal cut on the leaked image but a rounder shape on the official one.

F.) A lightning bolt that appears to be missing entirely from the leaked image.

G.) Several dark structures are missing entirely from the leaked image.

H.) The shape of the crystals is clearly different. The official image has one large chunk in this area, slanted to the left. The leaked image has two chunks with a piece missing in the center and both pieces missing that leftward slant.

Was leaning towards team real but this post in the discussion thread and some of nantengex's counter arguments do have me more suspicious of this being fake. Leaning more towards fake now, probably for the best so I do not get disappointed if this is not real. However this really hard to tell now since there is legitimate good arguments coming from both sides now in my opinion so I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens with our next unveil.

Also wanted to throw in that I am not buying this whole insiders saying its fake because so and so is not there, i trust a photo more than word of mouth in this situation. Also isnt feeding false info to suspected leakers a thing to try to find them, it would kind of explain the conflict with insiders and the whole Incineroar thing, especially since vergeben was right for a while meaning there is a motive to do this plus it explains vergeben's recent silence. IDK i just find these arguments alot different from spotted inconsistencies and general info on how this could have been made and I see them as decent legitimate points against everything to consider.

 

[Kevandre]

No Skull Kid. And yet Mach Rider?

I mean, I'd be fine with Skull Kid. But he's a one off character from a black sheep Zelda game that only became well beloved fairly recently. Sakurai's been known to throw in a random retro character in basically every game, and he confirmed that Mach Rider was a close call in Melee but taken out because he couldn't make it work, just like the Ditto Pokeball and 8 player Smash.

I dunno man, between Banjo, Isaac and Chorus Kids alone, this is a really fan-favoring leak.

 

[Fell God]

Snapchat? Sounds even less trustworthy than 4chan...but hey, if it's real, at least that means Verg was wrong. Guess we'll see but either way it's not a big deal to me since I already have everyone I wanted

(Edit: not meaning to sound rude at the end in case anyone gets that impression)

 

[Dan]

I like Skull Kid and Mach Rider, but would honestly rather have Mach between the two.

Was leaning towards team real but this post in the discussion thread and some of nantengex's counter arguments do have me more suspicious of this being fake. Leaning more towards fake now, probably for the best so I do not get disappointed if this is not real. However this really hard to tell now since there is legitimate good arguments coming from both sides now in my opinion so I guess we will just have to wait and see what happens with our next unveil.

Nintendo should be humbled people care about their game that much.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

But he's a one off character from a black sheep Zelda game that only became well beloved fairly recently.

This is all wrong.

Anyway, the guy on twitter said the person whose name was on the image hasn't worked at the company in a while. Can anyone provide a source for that? If he left long enough ago, it wouldn't make sense that the company would have the final roster.

 

[JT_KiNGLY]

Given the evidence provided, and the circumstances of the leak I'm optimistic in believing that this is legitimate. I'm not one to trust leaks, AT ALL, but games HAVE been leaked before so a leak is never impossible. Most leaks are just vague unconvincing lists rambling off names in hopes that they will guess a newcomer correctly, but not this one. This provides photographic evidence of a banner that in order to fabricate would require an entire artistic duplication from the backdrop forward, a monumental task surely, even for the original artists behind the piece. Pulling off a ruse THIS complex and of this magnitude seems incredibly unlikely, and I believe that anyone with a nugget of wisdom could easily see that. Considering all there is available I am confident in siding with Team REAL.
Let the final official reveals put this debate to rest.

 

[Kevandre]

This is all wrong.

Anyway, the guy on twitter said the person whose name was on the image hasn't worked at the company in a while. Can anyone provide a source for that? If he left long enough ago, it wouldn't make sense that the company would have the final roster.

It's definitely not all wrong... For like most of the 2000s, everyone seemed to just talk crap about MM. A lot like Wind Waker. Then eventually it got seen as the good game it is. That doesn't change what it once was though

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

For like most of the 2000s, everyone seemed to just talk crap about MM. A lot like Wind Waker. Then eventually it got seen as the good game it is.

"everyone seemed to"

Well, I can't argue with that, can I? It's not like Majora's Mask got near-perfect reviews on release, as did Wind Waker.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is it a leak?

Then it's fake.

 

[msinyu]

Personally, I think it's real. Being "too good to be true" is a poor argument against it, since to a vast majority of people, Smash Ultimate in itself is too good to be true! The leak is honestly a 50/50. On one hand, it looks pretty real, as I'd imagine it'd be hard to put in the time to photoshop characters into that huge banner. However, we've seen plenty of realistic looking leaks before, and some people will go through a lot of effort just to know deep down that their fake leak is getting all sorts of attention!

My beliefs of it being real stem from the obscurities of some of the character choices, as well as the overall look of the image. The character choices being fan favorites is...kind of to be expected, isn't it? That's why we have K. Rool, Dark Samus, Chrom and a few others. It's because of their popularity among fans. They are fan favorites. So of course other roster additions are going to be fan favorites. However, we've also seen characters added to the roster that are a bit more on the obscure side, like Mr. Game & Watch in Melee. That's where Chorus Kids and Mach Rider take the cake. They also blend beautifully into the open spaces, which would be hard to just magically edit in with how crowded the poster art is.

If the leak is disproved, then such is life. I, however, will probably continue believing that this leak has truly revealed the final roster of Smash Ultimate until proven otherwise!