• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Vote for Alph - Get him promoted

Do you like the idea of Alph being promoted to a clone in Sm4sh?

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 36.7%
  • No

    Votes: 13 43.3%
  • Indifferent

    Votes: 6 20.0%

  • Total voters
    30

rockerpikmin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
153



Let's get this guy out of Olimar's shadow. Vote for Alph to be promoted to a semi-clone. We can do this, guys. I know we can. Get those votes in and start pushing for the treatment he deserves.

He's okay where he is at the moment but he could be brilliant. Vamping up Alph should take no more than a few days of development time.

It would be awesome if they promoted him in a compulsory update as an extra "free dessert." I know it's a longshot but it's possible if we push for it. Or they could remove him from the game, replace his costume with 4 Olimars and make him an optional free download.


Differences to Olimar

Rock and Winged Pikmin instead of Purple and White ones:
Rock Pikmin have average range and are immune to sword slashes and blunt forces. They deal less percentage damage but more shield damage than Purples and bounce off opponents in a similar manner to them. Have a meteor effect when used for d-air.
Winged Pikmin are weak but can home in on opponents. They deal twice the damage to airborne opponents, however.

These Pikmin at hand will help keep opponents on the ground and at a distance if used effectively.

UPDATE: For Alph's Neutral-air, instead of dealing small amounts of damage in succession like Olimar's, he could spin with Pikmin in his hands, dealing a single blow with damage and knockback dependent on the Pikmin he's holding.

For his Up-Special, instead of being carried by Winged Pikmin, he could be carried by a Swooping Snitchbug. This move will not last as long as 'Winged Pikmin carry' but, to compensate, Winged Pikmin in Alph's squad will not need to be carried during the move as they can just fly close to him. Or he could be carried by a Flighty Joustmite, which would function in a similar manner but deal damage to opponents it is facing with its horn, with the tip of the horn having a sweetspot.

There could also be different damage and knockback outputs in Alph's attacks. And of course he will use the S.S Drake, instead of The Ship, in his Final Smash.


UPDATE:
Below is a moveset I created for Alph:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/15KDjkPS9Yyl3i17djk1sOqARNJ1tRj7wUebTCHbRuwc/pubhtml

Moves highlighted in yellow work the same as Olimar's.
 
Last edited:

-crump-

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
2,060
Location
Pepperoni Secret
3DS FC
1590-4951-5915
Switch FC
SW-4366-1207-0908
Wrong section, pal, but I actually agree with the idea. I hate the idea of alt costumes.
 

rockerpikmin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
153
Wrong section, pal, but I actually agree with the idea. I hate the idea of alt costumes.
This is the General Discussion thread so I thought it would be relevant. I could move it to the Olimar discussion section but it might not get as much notice.
 

-crump-

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 12, 2015
Messages
2,060
Location
Pepperoni Secret
3DS FC
1590-4951-5915
Switch FC
SW-4366-1207-0908
This is the General Discussion thread so I thought it would be relevant. I could move it to the Olimar discussion section but it might not get as much notice.
Nope, it belongs in the SSB4 Character discussion... :ohwell:

I see you're new, though! Welcome to the boards! :bluejump:
 

Lucimar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
464
Location
Hope's Peak Academy
NNID
Callin
3DS FC
1332-8783-7823
Yes, I support! I would've made this my thread myself but I wasn't sure if it was allowed.

Alph being stuck as an alternative costume is my biggest flaw with the game. I hate how he's not adequately represented while also taking up four of Olimar's costume slots. The fact that he's stuck as an alternative while Dark Pit and Lucina are there own characters is especially jarring to me (I understand why they were included though). Either way, I hope he's promoted to his own character via DLC for this game (as unlikely as this is) or for Smash 5. Maybe our votes are what could persuade Sakurai?
 

memoryman3

Daisy Obsessed
Joined
Apr 12, 2015
Messages
1,667
NNID
memoryman3
Personally I think Alph is fine as an alt. There's a 50/50 chance that he'll appear in All-Star and he has Winged Pikmin as an up-special.

It's not like they can't add Rock Pikmin to Olimar and Alph's rotation in future games. (he used them in Pikmin 3 Bingo Battle).

Some characters like Daisy are represented by simple palette swaps.
 

rockerpikmin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
153
Yes, I support! I would've made this my thread myself but I wasn't sure if it was allowed.

Alph being stuck as an alternative costume is my biggest flaw with the game. I hate how he's not adequately represented while also taking up four of Olimar's costume slots. The fact that he's stuck as an alternative while Dark Pit and Lucina are there own characters is especially jarring to me (I understand why they were included though). Either way, I hope he's promoted to his own character via DLC for this game (as unlikely as this is) or for Smash 5. Maybe our votes are what could persuade Sakurai?
Thanks for the support.

If you could spread the word about this campaign that would be great.


Personally I think Alph is fine as an alt. There's a 50/50 chance that he'll appear in All-Star and he has Winged Pikmin as an up-special.

It's not like they can't add Rock Pikmin to Olimar and Alph's rotation in future games. (he used them in Pikmin 3 Bingo Battle).

Some characters like Daisy are represented by simple palette swaps.
But there's so much potential with this guy. He's just left in the dark. He has a lot more hidden potential than the 3 clones we got because they can't exactly change their movesets now, can they? Nobody would be upset if Alph made the jump, especially when he was considered for promotion during development.
 

rockerpikmin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
153
I don't see why there needs to be anymore clones when the DLC could be making entirely new characters
As I've said already, it shouldn't take any more than a few days to upgrade Alph, so he shouldn't negatively affect new characters' chances of getting in.
 

ChaikaBestGirl

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
285
Location
weeaboo protection chamber
NNID
digdugfury
As I've said already, it shouldn't take any more than a few days to upgrade Alph, so he shouldn't negatively affect new characters' chances of getting in.
I know that it didn't take that much time for the clones to be made and given movesets, but as Sakurai or someone on the dev team said they're putting most of their work into making new characters, I don't think they have a lot of time to focus on making another clone with a slightly different moveset when they want to put all their efforts into a person who hasn't had their chance yet, or is getting put back in to bring something new.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,332
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Programming Rock Pikmin to be unique would take a lot of time, actually. Making him a clone takes a lot longer than you think. Not only do they require a new model entirely, they have to be very different from Purple Pikmin to even be considered worth the effort. Otherwise they might as well just make the models and put them on Alph instead of him using Purple Pikmin. I would be okay with this since Alph would look more unique to a degree. At least the male/female costumes for characters have different voices. Winged Pikmin are already used with regular Olimar, and Rock Pikmin being extremely similar to Purple Pikmin already gives little incentive from a developer standpoint to bother with.

Likewise, besides that, he doesn't actually bring something notable that Olimar doesn't already. The focus is on the Pikmin and their overall ability to team up and fight. The Captain is simply like Pokemon Trainer to a degree, where their actual skin used doesn't matter. They could put any Captain as an alt and the overall character would make sense. Really, the only problem with Alph is the skin they used for his ship in his Final Smash at best(It shouldn't still be Olimar's ship). He's already overall playable anyway(which is more than tons of characters have gotten, respectively). Some aren't even alts and are partial references to another character(Daisy, Waluigi, Blood Falcon, one of Pichu's old costumes at best, colors referencing various Kid Icarus characters with Palutena...).

The only difference between the Captain and PT is simply the fact one fights directly. But they otherwise are practically the same idea. They both command a mini-army of Monsters. They both are treated similar to a Class who can be interchanged with any model and still make sense. As long as they have the same overall size(althoug you wouldn't need that for PT since he(or she) is only in the background. They have to only keep the model size and hitboxes the same for a Captain, nothing else).

Maybe next game when there's more time and resources spendable(and more Pikmin show up to help make them higly different from each other). Simply put, it wasn't feasible to expect the Dark Pit treatment for Olimar. Beyond literally the model of the ship used in the Final Smash, there's no tangible difference between Olimar and Alph. They have the same exact abilities. And yes, I am aware Alph's exact proportions in Pikmin are a little different from Olimar, but not enough to matter. Koopalings work fine as an alt for the same reason. They can potentially do the same stuff(Junior may use the Brush, but there's no reason the Koopalings cannot. Just like Alph can certainly ride in Olimar's Ship. That said, again, I think it's silly the sip wasn't reskinned during the Final Smash.). Now, the time part is important; As Alph is actually playable at this time(and it's not simply a costume, but they actually say Alph's name and even label him as that), it'd make more sense to concentrate on characters who aren't more than unnamed colors or bring something fairly new or at if they're going to do clone DLC, takes way less resources than an entirely new model, new attributes, and having to give Olimar 4 new costumes as well as de-programming the ability to go into Alph in this game. It's not feasible from a time standpoint or a character standpoint either. Pikmin is still well-represented by having 5 unique Pikmin to choose from.. If anything, I wish we had more alts for Olimar since the Pikmin themselves are the most important aspect.

I am aware you can make Rock Pikmin unique too. Problem is, that's a lot to do for a character who is still far more playable than palette swaps. One that is recognized fully as his own character. At the moment, it's barely one move that could be slightly different. And a reskinned Final Smash. There's not exactly much to separate Alph at this time. If Olimar's Tether Recovery was still there, then sure, Alph could use the Winged Pikmin. But it isn't. Also, I feel the Whooping Snitchbug idea isn't really all that great as being a unique enough move worth making. That's also a new model, a significantly different one to program for. It's barely different from Winged Pikmin. It doesn't fit as something that would help a Captain either. If they can find the extra time, doing a few model swaps may be nice for Alph's differences from Olimar, but reality ensues that their physical differences otherwise are severely low. Dark Pit at least had a necessary and unique Final Smash. If Alph cannot get one, it's not actually worth the effort. Slight differences alone won't cut it when they're nearly the same move. Especially if again, you requiring multiple new models to make the differences worthwhile.

Apologizes if some points are repeated, but overall, I give a No to him being a clone in Smash 4. Save that for characters who aren't actually playable at all(vets or otherwise). Maybe in Smash 5, that might not be a bad idea, when there's enough to truly separate him without forcing Alph to team up with one of the enemies.
 

rockerpikmin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
153
@ Verde Coeden Scalesworth Verde Coeden Scalesworth

I appreciate that there are characters that aren't playable in the game but are just alluded to. However, I personally see potential in this guy and he'd be more unique than Lucina at least. The dev team could just give him Rock Pikmin instead of Purple and White ones to make him more amateur friendly. As long as Pikmin gets a second individual rep, I don't really care. The novelty of playing as your favourite characters is fun enough.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

Flap and Swish~
Premium
Joined
Aug 13, 2001
Messages
34,332
Location
Cull Hazard
NNID
Irene4
3DS FC
1203-9265-8784
Switch FC
SW-7567-8572-3791
Rock Pikmin are practically the same thing as Purple Pikmin outside of their model. The significant differences aren't ultimately there, and the differences even then are very slight, not enough to be worth spending time and money on. Winged Pikmin are already used highly well for what they're supposed to be, flying in some way. What purpose is there to use them again?

"Can be unique" sounds good and all, but when you have to do more than simply add a clone, there's a bit of an issue. Remember, they have to make new costumes for both of them. That means they have to entirely reprogram all the files so the CSS is fully changed up(remember that the CSS hasn't gotten any changes besides adding a character to the end of it) and avoid any glitches due to the preset costumes. This isn't the same thing as making a clone for a character who has a allusion to one via a costume. It's not just making the new costumes, either. You have to move each individual file to a new area, and both Olimar and Alph cannot be connected at all in the files. They have to make a new Final Smash in some way(whether it's unique or just re-skinng the ship). And even then, the differences are so slight for an already playable character, that again, the incentive is really low.

By the time of Smash 5, I'm sure they can separate them easily. More than enough time. Easier resources. Good ways to make them unique(as of now, you've only shown how the Pikmin are unique, not the Captains). They could just as easily add Rock Pikmin(as either a skin for Purple Pikmin only when Alph is using them or as a unique one) to the rotation of Pikmin with some work as free DLC and you'd achieve about the same thing.

Remember how in Brawl Olimar had his own abilities besides the Pikmin? That's what Alph needs. Just adding Rock Pikmin(and I don't see a good reason to change the Winged Pikmin. How about Bulbmin instead of White Pikmin? Heck, he could only use Rock and Bulbmin instead, which changes up his gameplay even more) alone won't cut it for major differences. Having an enemy carry him is grasping for a moveset. Concentrate on what Alph could do outside of his Pikmin. If all you're doing is just putting more Pikmin in, you're not changing Alph himself. That's who you want to make a clone, right? Make Alph stand out, not his Pikmin only. There's a lot of upgrades in the series for Captains, after all. Use that to make him stand out more than his army alone.

The idea he could be quickly cloned is not as feasible as you think it is. Fixing the CSS and where all the files are is a fairly big deal for the programmers. So, you need to make sure Alph feels highly unique to justify that kind of work. As for Lucina, I do think she should've been a bit more different, btw. But at least she's the one who is changed, not something she summons only.
 

rockerpikmin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
153
Rock Pikmin are practically the same thing as Purple Pikmin outside of their model.
Have you ever played Pikmin 3 or any Pikmin game? Cos Purple Pikmin are quite different to Rock Pikmin.


For Alph's Neutral-air, instead of dealing small amounts of damage in succession like Olimar's, he could spin with Pikmin in his hands, dealing a single blow with damage and knockback dependent on the Pikmin he's holding.
 

ChaikaBestGirl

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 18, 2015
Messages
285
Location
weeaboo protection chamber
NNID
digdugfury
Have you ever played Pikmin 3 or any Pikmin game? Cos Purple Pikmin are quite different to Rock Pikmin.


For Alph's Neutral-air, instead of dealing small amounts of damage in succession like Olimar's, he could spin with Pikmin in his hands, dealing a single blow with damage and knockback dependent on the Pikmin he's holding.
Then he would be more than a clone, clones have the same moves but with very slight differences. The biggest difference between any clones is how Pit hits people with a Sickem Bopper while Dark Pit hits people with a car engine, also how Falcon has the knee and Ganon just punches for their faira, but they arent really clones, every other clone is just a reskin with the same moves just different hitboxes and sweetspots
 
Last edited:

rockerpikmin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
153
Then he would be more than a clone, clones have the same moves but with very slight differences. The biggest difference between any clones is how Pit hits people with a Sickem Bopper while Dark Pit hits people with a car engine, also how Falcon has the knee and Ganon just punches for their faira, but they arent really clones, every other clone is just a reskin with the same moves just different hitboxes and sweetspots
Great, can't complain about that. Must admit, that bit about Dark Pit's car engine tickled me.

I'd prefer it if he was a semi-clone, everybody would but terminologically speaking: semi-clones are clones, but more drastically different than the characters their movesets are derived from.
 

rockerpikmin

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 5, 2015
Messages
153
Don't want this thread to just fall through. Any discussion concerning Alph would do.
 
Top Bottom