Villagers Mu Spread? (Aardvark's Spread) 1.1.5 Discussion.

PKY_Slings

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#1
Now, that the new 1.1.5 patch is out I think it's time to discuss Villy's Mu spread. Villager was indirectly buffed by the new patch (Similar to Ryu during the Shield Stun patch but in a different way). Our Mu's against the current Top tiers are looking pretty solid at the moment. (Note) this Mu spread was made during 1.1.4. However, many of these Mu's haven't changed therefore let's hop into it. Now, recently A SoCal Villager known as Aardvark posted his opinion on Villagers Matchup Spread take a look https://twitter.com/Aarvark2pt0/status/707255707674935296 Some of these Matchups took me by surprise. So I was thinking we could have a friendly discussion over possibly what we agree and disagree on. Personally, I feel like if Villager lost all of the matchups it would be hard to call him a Top Tier. I've always thought Mega Man was our worst Matchup with Rosalina being a close second. It wasn't until recently that I noticed other Villager's talking about Mario as a bad Mu (I've always just assumed it was 50/50 maybe 45/55 his favor). Also, are Palutena and Falco really that bad? Previously, I only thought that the only "low" tier we lost to was Mr Game and Watch lol. Perhaps I'm ignorant but Villager seems to do very solidly against the "better characters" in this game. That's why I'd like to come as close as we can having an "official" Villager Mu spread chart to try to help stop any confusion people may have on certain characters. If you want to share your thought on Villagers Mu's you could leave a link to your spread but not mandatory.
 

PKY_Slings

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#2
For example, I think that we go even with Yoshi, Corrin, and ZSS pre-patch. Now that a couple characters got nerfed I think our Mu with Sheik may be even or at worst still a 55/45 her favor. As wee as I think we beat ZSS now. Like I said PLEASE leave all thought and opinions so we can try and close the gap on what we think these matchups are and whose favor they are in.
 

Antonykun

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#3
I still have a hard time wrapping my head around losing that badly to palu. I can buy losing to her but not to the same level as rosaluma who manage to simply counter villager's entire design
 

xVenu5

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#4
Seems like more his opinion and experience. Villager def doesn't lose most of those. The majority of these are even. I'd like to watch him play some of these matchups tho. Curious why he thinks we lose so many of the matchups I think we win or are even.
 

Moosseff

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#5
Villager does bad in some of those MUs

But he doesnt do THAT bad in some of those MUs

Palutena our worst matchup?

Really? I dont see it.

A much stronger candidate would be Falco or G&W but even then

Its not THAT bad

I would much rather fight a falco than a sheik or rosa tho, sheik/rosa MU post patch is even IMO but still they arent fun for me, its kind of crazy tbh
 

OfficialThatGuy

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#6
To be honest my worst matchups as :4villager: is:
:4palutena::4megaman::4mario::rosalina::4gaw:
Other than that, it's fairly even. Those matchups aren't even that bad, I just struggle a little. Rosalina and Palutena aren't that difficult after getting that right F-Air/B-Air, due to pretty big hitboxes you can set up for an edgeguard with a string.

Edit: imo


another edit:
holy **** that picture is big
 
Last edited:

PKY_Slings

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#7
To be honest my worst matchups as :4villager: is:
:4palutena::4megaman::4mario::rosalina::4gaw:
Other than that, it's fairly even. Those matchups aren't even that bad, I just struggle a little. Rosalina and Palutena aren't that difficult after getting that right F-Air/B-Air, due to pretty big hitboxes you can set up for an edgeguard with a string.

Edit: imo


another edit:
holy **** that picture is big
This is the best Villager Mu Spread I have seen. Literally the only thing I'm even iffy about is Captain Falcon. I recently played ROB (A Captain Falcon Main from Gainesville) who had been studying the Villager Mu hard recently. We were playing in losers (Winner of the match got into top 8) and it showed he new it and played the Mu Great. He was smart if he had the lead he would never risk anything. Jab on the ledge from what I've experianced is really good in that matchup and he played very passively (Even Timed me out Game 1 and I've never been close to being timed out) imo I would put Captain Falcon as a slight advantage but that might just be me. Like I said Earlier Amazing Spread.
 

Splebel

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#8
I'm a little surprised about going even with Pac-Man. Villager's Pocket can really mess with Pac-Man's game.
 

JohnnyB

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#9
Watching Ranai vs Ally makes the mu look like it's in Villagers favor lol. I don't even know how Ranai does it, aside from godly consistent techskill.
 

Moosseff

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#10
This is the best Villager Mu Spread I have seen. Literally the only thing I'm even iffy about is Captain Falcon. I recently played ROB (A Captain Falcon Main from Gainesville) who had been studying the Villager Mu hard recently. We were playing in losers (Winner of the match got into top 8) and it showed he new it and played the Mu Great. He was smart if he had the lead he would never risk anything. Jab on the ledge from what I've experianced is really good in that matchup and he played very passively (Even Timed me out Game 1 and I've never been close to being timed out) imo I would put Captain Falcon as a slight advantage but that might just be me. Like I said Earlier Amazing Spread.
Honestly, imo we destroy falcon

Falcon is just a faster ganon in terms of movement

He lacks the appropriate approach to deal with villagers aerials and loid, just dont mess up and read falcons movement patterns and defensive options (IE rolling) Falcon can give you a hard time though if youre not carefull. One mispaced aerial and falcon can capitalize greatly. And by greatly I mean like 19% at the very least lol

Dont be afraid to challenge falcon offstage aswell. His recovery can be interrupted by literally anything. Just be safe offstage
 

Darklink401

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#11
Relevant MUs:

We do alright vs Rosa, she still has the edge but it ain't too bad, I'd put it at 45:55
We go even vs Sheik, for sure now.
We lose to Mario by a bit, tho its not in the WORST MU range, its just annoying because he's so unpunishable. His range is what kills him in the MU tho.
We also lose to these guys: :4megaman::4metaknight::4palutena::4falco::4gaw:

I feel Diddy and Ness MU is pretty even but they're lame as hell, especially Diddy.

We beat Diddy if we play lame like we do in the Luigi MU tho (in which we body Luigi btw)

I feel Villager has no MU that is worse than like 40:60 or 35:65 tho, he has so many tools to deal with any situation. (just for some reason struggles mostly vs low and mid tiers lol)
 

Moosseff

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#14
Camp her. Be aware of her sideB and fsmash. abandon whatever goal you're going for when she's in range for those. Reset, then proceed to camp her. Lol
But how am I supposed to damage her if I cant even get close enough?
 

xVenu5

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#16
Yea, keep her out with shots and lloid. Remain aware of her options and punish them when possible. Then run some more. They'll either lose to timeout, or they'll start gettin hasty. Both = villagers W.

Be aware when u upB to the ledge she can extend fsmash with both balloons and hit u no matter what option u choose. If u see her charging it, just drop and find another way on stage. Lol I got killed by that so many times last night. T.T
 

Moosseff

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#17
Yea, keep her out with shots and lloid. Remain aware of her options and punish them when possible. Then run some more. They'll either lose to timeout, or they'll start gettin hasty. Both = villagers W.

Be aware when u upB to the ledge she can extend fsmash with both balloons and hit u no matter what option u choose. If u see her charging it, just drop and find another way on stage. Lol I got killed by that so many times last night. T.T
Yeah I would just wait out of range of her fsmash until its over and then recover safely
 

PKY_Slings

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#22
The best though is when you lloid backwards on reaction to falcon dashing in. Lol, gets them every time.
Yeah, especially when you can follow up on the Lloyd rocket and can be a huge momentum shift. Soon, I believe we are going to see more of that as the meta advances. Some 20VV stuff
 

Moosseff

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#23
Anybody know anything about the Robin matchup? He forces me to play patient, which I dont like lol
 

xVenu5

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#24
Get to know his animations, and maybe play him a bit to learn his range. The fact that he's slow makes it way easier to tell what his goals are at different spaces. Be aware of his options at different ranges and try to stay out of grab range. His check mate is pretty demoralizing. Lol

I play the matchup by baiting his options at different ranges and pocketing whatever I can and immediately sending it back (unless he's at %s at which u can get a confirm with whatever is in your pocket). Doesn't always hit, but pocket needs to be free for the next thing and it sends the msg that his projectiles are useless. They don't like that cuz they don't have much else to approach with. Frustrate them if u can. Robin is incredibly punishable upon overextension.
 

JohnnyB

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#25
Get to know his animations, and maybe play him a bit to learn his range. The fact that he's slow makes it way easier to tell what his goals are at different spaces. Be aware of his options at different ranges and try to stay out of grab range. His check mate is pretty demoralizing. Lol

I play the matchup by baiting his options at different ranges and pocketing whatever I can and immediately sending it back (unless he's at %s at which u can get a confirm with whatever is in your pocket). Doesn't always hit, but pocket needs to be free for the next thing and it sends the msg that his projectiles are useless. They don't like that cuz they don't have much else to approach with. Frustrate them if u can. Robin is incredibly punishable upon overextension.
Thoron, in particular, has sooooooo much endlag that if you pocket it you can mash b and send it back at him/her before they can shield. This is for glory advice, however, because i never see good robins even use thoron.
 

Snarfinator

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#26
Hello, new player over here ^^ Been playing villager for quite some time now but I've just now started to learn about the more "advanced" techniques (Yeah, I'm a bit iffy with the words for them) But anyways, I've been having some real trouble with mario and Rosa at my locals, is there anything particular to keep in mind when facing them/what to do or should I try to have a secondary instead in order to deal with those?
 

BananaBake

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#27
Hello, new player over here ^^ Been playing villager for quite some time now but I've just now started to learn about the more "advanced" techniques (Yeah, I'm a bit iffy with the words for them) But anyways, I've been having some real trouble with mario and Rosa at my locals, is there anything particular to keep in mind when facing them/what to do or should I try to have a secondary instead in order to deal with those?
You might want a secondary like Kirby

He has an easy enough time against Mario and RosaLuma, is is even(ish) against Sheik. Mario can't combo him for as long, and you really don't have to worry about the cape reflecting your projectilles, and also has advantages against other Villagers, Mega Man (IMO his worst MU) and goes even w/Bayonetta, another bad MU. Point is, Kirby has good MU's against some of Villy's worst, and is a nice option for a secondary.
 

Snarfinator

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#28
You might want a secondary like Kirby

He has an easy enough time against Mario and RosaLuma, is is even(ish) against Sheik. Mario can't combo him for as long, and you really don't have to worry about the cape reflecting your projectilles, and also has advantages against other Villagers, Mega Man (IMO his worst MU) and goes even w/Bayonetta, another bad MU. Point is, Kirby has good MU's against some of Villy's worst, and is a nice option for a secondary.

Oh, ok! Thanks then! I'll see if I can make it work ^^
 
Joined
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#29
I've never had an issue with Mega Man. He doesn't have very many good options for countering a diagonal approach. Also, you can pocket most of his moves.

But maybe I've just never played a competent Mega Man.
 
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#30
Now, that the new 1.1.5 patch is out I think it's time to discuss Villy's Mu spread. Villager was indirectly buffed by the new patch (Similar to Ryu during the Shield Stun patch but in a different way). Our Mu's against the current Top tiers are looking pretty solid at the moment. (Note) this Mu spread was made during 1.1.4. However, many of these Mu's haven't changed therefore let's hop into it. Now, recently A SoCal Villager known as Aardvark posted his opinion on Villagers Matchup Spread take a look https://twitter.com/Aarvark2pt0/status/707255707674935296 Some of these Matchups took me by surprise. So I was thinking we could have a friendly discussion over possibly what we agree and disagree on. Personally, I feel like if Villager lost all of the matchups it would be hard to call him a Top Tier. I've always thought Mega Man was our worst Matchup with Rosalina being a close second. It wasn't until recently that I noticed other Villager's talking about Mario as a bad Mu (I've always just assumed it was 50/50 maybe 45/55 his favor). Also, are Palutena and Falco really that bad? Previously, I only thought that the only "low" tier we lost to was Mr Game and Watch lol. Perhaps I'm ignorant but Villager seems to do very solidly against the "better characters" in this game. That's why I'd like to come as close as we can having an "official" Villager Mu spread chart to try to help stop any confusion people may have on certain characters. If you want to share your thought on Villagers Mu's you could leave a link to your spread but not mandatory.

Hello PKY_Slings, I have began to main Villager recently so I was wondering if you wouldn't mind helping me get better, Also who is a good counter-pick to cover Villagers bad MUs? My ultimate goal is to beat Ranai but I know I have a very long road ahead to get there.
 

prismoid

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#31
Now, that the new 1.1.5 patch is out I think it's time to discuss Villy's Mu spread. Villager was indirectly buffed by the new patch (Similar to Ryu during the Shield Stun patch but in a different way). Our Mu's against the current Top tiers are looking pretty solid at the moment. (Note) this Mu spread was made during 1.1.4. However, many of these Mu's haven't changed therefore let's hop into it. Now, recently A SoCal Villager known as Aardvark posted his opinion on Villagers Matchup Spread take a look https://twitter.com/Aarvark2pt0/status/707255707674935296 Some of these Matchups took me by surprise. So I was thinking we could have a friendly discussion over possibly what we agree and disagree on. Personally, I feel like if Villager lost all of the matchups it would be hard to call him a Top Tier. I've always thought Mega Man was our worst Matchup with Rosalina being a close second. It wasn't until recently that I noticed other Villager's talking about Mario as a bad Mu (I've always just assumed it was 50/50 maybe 45/55 his favor). Also, are Palutena and Falco really that bad? Previously, I only thought that the only "low" tier we lost to was Mr Game and Watch lol. Perhaps I'm ignorant but Villager seems to do very solidly against the "better characters" in this game. That's why I'd like to come as close as we can having an "official" Villager Mu spread chart to try to help stop any confusion people may have on certain characters. If you want to share your thought on Villagers Mu's you could leave a link to your spread but not mandatory.
I'm sorry, but I really don't get how people think that villager is so great against little mac. He's so fast so he can get in easy range of lloyd spam and punish hard. If villager is at the ledge, downsmash covers so many options, even ledgehop slingshot which is really annoying because he goes so low when he charges it and the hitboxes are huge so you still get hit even if you fade back most times. Most importantly, villager has no OoS punishes on ANY of his ground attacks, it's devastating. His jab and nair don't have enough range, and his dair and ftilt are too slow to reach. I'd love for there to be some tech that villager does make that matchup nearly unwinnable for mac, but I don't think that's the case. I think that little mac is villager's hardest matchups, and it really depends on the mac player being half asleep.
 
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