Villager Frame Data

Croi

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#1
I wanted to be a cool guy and contribute to Villager's metagame, so I went through the process of collecting his frame data for as many moves as possible/as I felt like.

Every spoiler tag contains a .gif animation, slowed to 10 FPS. Every .gif begins one frame before the animation for his attack/action begins and usually cuts out one frame before he can shield/do something else, unless otherwise stated.

All shield data refers to the earliest you can shield after the action. If the action is an attack, it assumes the attack hits, so it's including the hitstun from the strike.

If you think I made a mistake somewhere, feel free to tell me I'm dumb and I'll look at it a little harder.

jab1:
hits on frame 3
does 3%
shield on frame 29
no kill potential

jab2:
hits on frame 3/frame 16 from jab 1
does 3%
shield on frame 43 (from jab 1)
no kill potential

multijab:
hits on frame 3/frame 28 frame jab 1
does 3%
shield on frame 29 (from last jab used)
no kill potential

ftilt:
hits on frame 9
does 9%
shield on frame 46
low kill potential

utilt:
first hit on frame 9/second hit on frame 31
does 6%/5%/total 11%
shield on frame 63
low kill potential

dtilt:
hits on frame 9
does 13%
shield on frame 46
low kill potential

dash attack:
hits on frame 17
does 10%
shield on frame 56
medium kill potential

fsmash:
hits on frame 26
does 15%
shield on frame 52
high kill potential

Reverse fsmash:
hits between 1 and 2 frames earlier
I'm wondering if this is a normal thing for all characters?

usmash:
first hit on frame 13/second on frame 20/third on frame 24/fourth on frame 28/fifth on frame 32/sixth
on frame 36
does 3%/1%/1%/1%/1%/4%/total 11%
shield on frame 58
low kill potential

dsmash:
first hit on from 14/second on frame 41 (counting the hitlag from the first hit)
does 7%/ does 7%
can be sourspotted
shield on frame 61
no kill potential

grab:
hits on frame 16
variable damage
no shield (shield on frame 61 if whiffed)
variable kill potential

Villager's grab has a bunch of weird hitboxes:

dash grab:
hits on frame 17
variable damage
no shield (shield on frame 74 if whiffed)
variable kill potential

pivot grab:
hits on frame 18
variable damage
no shield (shield on frame 71 if whiffed)
variable kill potential

B (Pocket):
"grab hitbox" on frame 8; ends on frame 22
no damage
invincibility on frame 6; ends on frame 25
shield on frame 65
no kill potential

Side+B (Lloid Rocket):
(gif ends on the frame before the hit)
hits on frame 52
does 7%
shield on frame 40
medium kill potential

Side+B (Lloid Rocket) Maximum Distance:
Lloid explodes on the next frame and causes damage
hits on frame 180
does 12% (midrange does 5%)
no shield
medium kill potential
jumping higher does not increase the distance

Side+B (Lloid Rocket) Ride:
.gif ends the frame before impact/damage
hits on frame 48
does 17%
no shield (puts Villager in the air)
Can jump off on frame 42; will put Villager in helpless (impact will not)
medium-high kill potential

Side+B (Lloid Rocket) Ride Minimum Distance:
Shortest distance possible
explodes on frame 200
shield on frame 276

Side+B (Lloid Rocket) Ride Maximum Distance:
Longest distance possible
explodes on frame 200

Side+B (Lloid Rocket) Ride No-Input Distance:
distance gained with no input at all
explodes on frame 180. What's up with that?

Down+B 1 (Plant):
does not hit
no damage
shield on frame 44
no kill potential
plant disappears after 840 frames (14 seconds)

Down+B 2 (Water):
Watering can "pushbox" begins on frame 8 (range-dependant)
no damage
shield on frame 55
no kill potential

Down+B 3.A (Growth):
hits on frame 10
does 14%
medium-high kill potential

Down+B 3.B (Axe):
hits on frame 6
does 14%
shield on frame 58
high kill potential

Down+B 3.C (Timber):
earliest hit on frame 25/active until frame 50 (possibly later?)
does 25%
shield on frame 50 (unaffected by hitstun)
very high kill potential

Up+B (Balloon Fighter):
.gif ends one frame before helpless
Balloons are vulnerable on frame 15
Automatically into helpless on frame 275
no damage
no shield
no kill potential

Up+B (Balloon Fighter) Maximum Height:
Hit the ground on frame 384

Up+B (Balloon Fighter) Repetitive Use:
Inputting Up+B more often pops the balloons sooner. It must have a "recharge" period like ROB's. If
Villager is hit out of them, riding Lloid back would be safer than using the balloons a second time.

Neutral Air:
hits on frame 3
does 9%
shield on frame 15 (after landing lag)
medium-low kill potential

Neutral Air Latest Hitbox:
Frame 23 is what I believe to be the latest frame possible for the second hitbox of Villager's nair.
does 5%
shield on frame 6 (after landing lag)
low kill potential

Forward Air:
hits on frame 10
does 7%
shield on frame 23 (after landing lag)
medium-low kill potential

Forward Air Maximum Distance:
This is what I believe is the maximum distance for Villager's fair.
hits on frame 22
does 3%
shield on frame 23 (after landing lag)
low kill potential

Back Air:
hits on frame 13
does 9%
shield on frame 25 (after landing lag)
medium-low kill potential

Back Air Maximum Distance:
This is what I believe is the maximum distance for Villager's bair.
hits on frame 26
does 3%
shield on frame 16 (after landing lag)
low kill potential

Up Air:
hits on frame 6
one turnip does 8%/two turnips do 10%/three turnips do 13%
shield on frame 16 (after landing lag)
variable kill potential

Up Air Latest Hitbox:
Frame 20 is what I believe to be the latest frame possible for the second hitbox of Villager's uair.
one turnip does 4%/two turnips do 5%/three turnips do 6%
shield on frame 20 (after landing lag)
variable kill potential

Down Air:
hits on frame 8
one turnip does 8%/two turnips do 10%/three turnips do 13%
three turnips can spike at Villager's hands
shield on frame 18 (after landing lag)
variable kill potential

Down Air Latest Hitbox:
Frame 31 is what I believe to be the latest frame possible for the second hitbox of Villager's dair.
one turnip does 4%/two turnips do 5%/three turnips do 6%
shield on frame 24 (after landing lag)
variable kill potential

spotdodge:
shield on frame 30
invincibility ends on frame 19

airdodge:
can act again on frame 33
invincibility begins on frame 4
invincibility ends on frame 30

airdodge landing lag:
shield on frame 24 (after hitting the ground)

forward roll:
shield on frame 31
invincibility ends on frame 21

back roll:
shield on frame 32
invincibility ends on frame 22

jumpsquat:
in the air on frame 6
 
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Plino

 
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#3
Holy slunk thank you for this. I was wondering when this would be done, since I don't have a capture card. Smash 4 runs at 60fps too, right?\

Also, for your interruptibility frame data, I'm guessing you tested by holding down the shield button, right?
 
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Croi

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#4
Smash 4 runs at 60 FPS, correct.

And yes, I would do my action while holding the shield button, ensuring that my shield would come up on the first available frame.
 

Plino

 
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#6
Alright awesome. Cause I know that most 3DS games run at 60 fps but I wasn't sure if it was all of them, and if smash was included.

Also a big thank you for confirming the saplings lifespan. If it's not too much to ask, do you think you could also do so for the tree itself? I know it begins to wither around the tenth second, and is completely gone after 10 seconds, if that helps narrow down the timeframe.

Also also regarding the Balloon Trip, I'm a little uncertain... by repetitive use, do you mean using it immediately after it has expired naturally (the balloons pop by themselves)? Because I was doing some testing on how to use them most efficiently, and during the testing I didn't notice the balloons popping any sooner. Though it its like >50 frames difference I just didn't notice it. Do you think you could include frames for the popping sounds for the different variations?

Also also also do you think you could include helpless landing lag?

I'm really sorry for bombarding you like this but this is terribly exciting I mean the demo barely became publicly available today and you're already providing us with frame data so again thank you so very much

Edit: also one last thing that came to mind. Why do the maximum distances for BAir have different interruptibility frames? Any idea?
 
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Krynxe

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#7
This is amazing. The inner soul calibur in me gets so hot for frame data. <3

I hope you're encouraged enough to do this for more characters. very cool to see this!
 

Kipcom

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Kipcom
#11
This is really good, though what do you mean by kill potential? Whether it's easy to get the kill with that move compared to others, or that the move will kill at all?

Cause Villager's Up tilt and Down tilt can definitely kill off the top at high percents. :p
 

Player-1

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#12
@ Croi Croi is the tree growth frame data based on watering the sapling all at once? I'd like to get what frame the tree growth hits on after it takes in the necessary amount of water.
 

Croi

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#13
Originally, I had it based on as soon as the sapling was planted, then you spammed downB until it watered and grew, but I'm going to amend that based on your question.

The sapling turns into a tree on frame 34 (assuming you're standing right on top of it when you press downB again to water it). Once it starts to grow, it actually hits on frame 10.

Also, I didn't even realize the sapling needed a certain amount of water before it grew.
 

Player-1

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#14
Originally, I had it based on as soon as the sapling was planted, then you spammed downB until it watered and grew, but I'm going to amend that based on your question.

The sapling turns into a tree on frame 34 (assuming you're standing right on top of it when you press downB again to water it). Once it starts to grow, it actually hits on frame 10.

Also, I didn't even realize the sapling needed a certain amount of water before it grew.
Can you get Villager's jump squat frame data? I'd like to know how fast it would be to get nair OoS.
 

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
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#18
Yeaaaaaa frame 3 jab and nair. Good numbers all around I suppose.

I swore dtilt was faster than frame 10... probably just the range.
 

sirchadakiss18

Smash Journeyman
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#19
Jab 1 hits on frame 2 actually, you can frame count in training mode

EDIT: actually all of this is inaccurate :L

I will get around to posting a vid of Villager's frame data soon and contribute.
 
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sirchadakiss18

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#21
What do you mean you can frame count in training mode? Anyway, data dumps confirm at F3 jab so somehow I'm not certain its inaccurate...




EDIT:


EDIT 2: I would like for OP to revamp this thread with accurate data for all through this method, or you all can contribute and pitch in together. more extensive testing can be done with another player (i.e) shield lag/stun, etc. Have fun ppl

EDIT 3: 8th Frame the 2nd jab comes out, never mind what I said in vid xd
 
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Croi

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#24
I am literally recording at 60 frames per second and I am literally counting every frame from when the animation begins to when the number appears next to Sandbag. Your method not only requires changing how the game plays but it's also determined by how quickly you can spam the L button. You're just eyeballing it.

Here's his first jab, slowed to 0.6 FPS:



The first frame is his neutral, idle animation, and the following three are his first jab as it connects with Sandbag.

Please don't try to tell me my 1:1 framecounting is wrong when your methods require guesswork.
 
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sirchadakiss18

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#25
I am literally recording at 60 frames per second and I am literally counting every frame from when the animation begins to when the number appears next to Sandbag. Your method not only requires changing how the game plays but it's also determined by how quickly you can spam the L button. You're just eyeballing it.

Here's his first jab, slowed to 0.6 FPS:



The first frame is his neutral, idle animation, and the following three are his first jab as it connects with Sandbag.

Please don't try to tell me my 1:1 framecounting is wrong when your methods require guesswork.

Hmm, I'm terribly confused now...hmm...So can you show a Shield animation? Since Shield comes out on Frame 1, there shouldnt be any extra frames in between till the Shield comes out? or one for Lil Mac's jab since the Mac boards already established his Jab is a 1 frame, kinda like Shielding, Unless their finds are wrong too. im curious. enlighten me.

EDIT: There is a such method as Inbetweening, we are looking for Key frames. not the .006 second inbetween frame to a Key frame.
 
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Croi

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#26
I'm not sure I understand the question. Do you think every move has zero cooldown, and that shield should be the very next frame after the hitbox? Everything in the game would be completely safe if that were true.

Jab 1 has 26 frames of cooldown, meaning you can shield as early as frame 29 after using jab 1, as I have said in the OP.
 

sirchadakiss18

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#27
I'm not sure I understand the question. Do you think every move has zero cooldown, and that shield should be the very next frame after the hitbox? Everything in the game would be completely safe if that were true.

Jab 1 has 26 frames of cooldown, meaning you can shield as early as frame 29 after using jab 1, as I have said in the OP.


No Croi im saying like...Okay, so It's established that the initial shield animation where shield comes out/start is frame 1 and little Mac's Jab is the same right? my thesis is that if you were to use the same gif method in your OP (as you did with Villager) with both Mac's Jab and Shield, I feel there would be additional frames counted for, You would have added (Counted) the "Nano frames" or "inbetween frames" (is the scientific term) as whole frames, adding to the frames.

(Also I did the frame testing using the in game method as slow as this game can get (Allows you to see) and Jab 1 has 14 frames of cool down)

Also what Im trying to alarm you is everyone on the boards would have to record and use what you're using to get the equal gist of Frames for each Character in game, which imo is extra work granted that there is an in game Frame counting mechanic, sorta(?)

EDIT: The program youre using is probably counting frames like the slowest possible way like 1/6th, 1/8th. counting each...and nano-frame of a frame.

I believe a poster mentioned that they felt a tilt was faster than what you counted it to be?

EDIT:
Yeaaaaaa frame 3 jab and nair. Good numbers all around I suppose.

I swore dtilt was faster than frame 10... probably just the range.
using the in-game 1/4 speed method, Dtilt hits on Frame 5, not 10 @_@
 
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Croi

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#28
What... I...

Nothing you're saying is making any sense to me. "Nano frames?" Holy ****, you just press the attack button, hold shield, and wait for shield to come up. "The program I'm using?" I record the attacks as a video at 60 FPS, then I open the video in a program called Virtualdub, which allows me to seek through the video frame-by-frame. I am counting every frame myself. I just posted and proved beyond a doubt that jab 1 is three frames; do you really need me to do the same to dtilt to prove to you that it hits on frame 10?

e: you had me doubt myself and I double-checked; apparently dtilt hits on frame 9 :ohwell: I must have counted his idle frame when I did the crunching.

The game's frame data has already been dumped, so we know what everyone's data is according to the data in the game, and it's corroborating with me and my methods. How can you possibly believe that counting with your eyes and your L button is more foolproof than that?

And, I've actually already done the frame data for Little Mac, and guess what, I figured out that his jab was frame 1 before we got the data dump.

I can't reply to you anymore, this is just too crazy. Redo Villager's frame data using your method if you want but be prepared to be unanimously told that it's horribly incorrect.
 
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sirchadakiss18

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#29
The game's frame data has already been dumped, so we know what everyone's data is according to the data in the game, and it's corroborating with me and my methods. How can you possibly believe that counting with your eyes and your L button is more foolproof than that?



lol Croi the same method Im using was the accurate way to count frames in Brawl through a debuggin hack, it allowed to count frame by frame by tapping Z button. these methods was wrote down and noted. I figured since Sakurai saw our efforts in counting frames in Brawl he would include it in the next incarnation which is smash 4 (Since he pretty much Incorporated somethings from PM hacks, thats another story although) Im just simply saying your method is making attacks seem like they last 5-ever. Lloyd Rocket hits on frame 200? i calculated and it hits on frame 25 :/ :/ @_@


Brawl didnt even have moves that last that long :/

idk maybe my method is indeed wrong, just feels odd to me.
 

Plino

 
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#30
Hey man first off let me start this by saying that I really appreciate the effort you put into this and the fact that you want to contribute to our board. But your method of getting frame data is grossly inaccurate, not even comparing to other methods. There is no such thing as a "nanoframe"; a frame is a frame is a frame, and it is the smallest division of time in a game. Smash 4 runs at 60 frames per second. Since Croi recorded and made gifs of the attacks at 60 frames per second, every gif frame equates to a single frame in game. These are true numbers, and every frame is accounted for without adding in any extras, through "nanoframes" or otherwise.

Not only that but using "1/4 (Hold L)" to count frames is terribly unreliable because for starters, you are probably not going to be tapping L within one sixtieth of a second. Furthermore, even if you weren't doing it that quickly, and instead tapping it within, say, one thirtieth of a second, you wouldn't feasibly be able to account for that because you'd have no guarantee that every one of your taps is the same amount of time. One might be 1/53 seconds, another might be 1/48 seconds, etc., leading to uneven "frame" durations. Also, you're confusing this method with the Brawl hack that let you stop gameplay and advance it by one frame by pressing Z. The differences are that this was a hack (not an ingame feature that "has been in since Brawl") and that this GUARANTEED you'd advance by EXACTLY 1 frame each time.

So again, I really hope I didn't come off as too harsh, but I'm just trying to clarify all of this. Trust me, I have extensive experience with frame stuff (having been among the first of the Brawl era smash lab members, I used frame advance a lot, along with using OSA2 to gather character frame data, and doing it now for smash 4), so I know what I'm talking about. But please don't let this deter you from participating in discussion here.
 
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Lavani

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#31
Well, all of that aside...there are a few things in the OP that don't line up with the data dump entirely, mostly just 1f discrepancies:

Fsmash drops the bowling ball on frame 20 and it gains its active hitbox 5 frames after release. (25f startup total)
Usmash hits on frame 12.
Dsmash hits on frame 8, you actually charge it a bit in your gif.
All grabs occur 1 frame earlier than what you have documented.
 

Player-1

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#33
I've heard from other people that some of the things in the data dump is incorrect.

Also, pretty sure you're always forced to charge dsmash even a bit, try flicking the c stick and you still see the yellow flash
 
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Lavani

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#34
I've heard from other people that some of the things in the data dump is incorrect.

Also, pretty sure you're always forced to charge dsmash even a bit, try flicking the c stick and you still see the yellow flash
I'm stuck with 3DS, but I can still get it to come out without charging and can verify it's 8f startup.

 
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Plino

 
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#35
I've heard from other people that some of the things in the data dump is incorrect.

Also, pretty sure you're always forced to charge dsmash even a bit, try flicking the c stick and you still see the yellow flash
You are never forced to charge a smash. Charging occurs if you are inputting something that would cause charging on the frame the hitbox would appear. In your case with the c-stick this is because of the new c-stick mechanics coupled with "stick tilt latency", as I like to call it. The new c-stick allows you to charge a smash by holding the stick. Stick tilt latency is the effect of a stick's input still going through after being released because while it is returning to neutral, it is still technically tilted and thus still sending inputs (this is why it was basically impossible to test Snake's instant platform grenade drop in frame advance, and why it worked in the first place). The c-stick is still in the process of moving back to neutral by the time the hitbox-out frame comes along, i.e. it is not in neutral i.e. it is "tilted" on that frame, causing a charge.

However, going into training and setting it to 1/4 Hold L will let you easily have the stick back in neutral during startup/before the active frame, allowing you to execute the smash with no charging at all.
 
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