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Edgehogging was pretty lame honestly. Ledge trumping is an interesting, multi-faceted system that's relatively equal in use as and against most characters, while edgehogging was basically a matchup-based win/lose button.
I totally agree.
I don't think Luigi is Top 10 anymore, not by a wide berth. The nerf to his grab game neutered quite a bit of what made him so potent in competition (to wit, his ability to get high damage, no-risk followups off of a simple fireball -> grab confirm). Even then, the fact that he never made it to the top in nationals even in his prime is a bit of a red flag. He doesn't have anything to put him anywhere near Top 10 now.
well where would you put him?
Conversion. Not arguing for or against the 6-10 position (Also not sure why he has to be better than Sonic, Ryu, or Fox to stake that claim when Sonic, Fox, and Ryu have been suggested on multiple occasion to be Top 5), but to put it simply Metaknight has some of the best conversion in the game and safe conversion at that.
That's not what I'm saying. I'm asking how you define "viable", because saying "he's about 12 to 14" is implicitly stating that only the highest ten characters in the game can be considered viable. Yet Meta Knight is definitely, by everybody's estimation, a viable character.
Solid. I'd put him in the same boat as MK, honestly: a low-tier character turned high-tier hero thanks to patches and meta development. The fact that he keeps getting consistent, respectable results is noteworthy considering where he came from. I don't think anybody would doubt that Ike is a good character.
I'm pretty sure naming Shiek followed by ZSS is in some kind of order.And then the top tiers are (In no order)
when i said "extremely precise" I mean the locations of the sweet spot and sour spot (if you can even call them that)
Well if positions 1 through 4 are occupied by some amalgamation of Sheik, ZSS, Pikachu, and Rosa (a statement which is almost universally agreed on at this point), that only leaves one spot, which Fox does have a case to occupy but Sonic and Ryu certainly don't, and at this point we can be fairly confident that Mario occupies #5. If not, and even if these characters are tied for 5th, that's still more proof that MK isn't 6-10 since all of those chars outplace him. MK may have good conversions, but with his poor neutral game (and the fact that they're pretty easy to avoid by DI'ing away), he can't do much else. Could you explain why MK's state of disadvantage is so good?
I would say Killager belongs in top 10, Ness is long gone.
i just wait for my opponent to start to DI the down throw then i DThrow so they miss the window
But Mario isn't in 3rd, Fox isn't 11th, etc
Is this sarcasm?
DI ing down throw is about one of the easiest things you can do in this game. Dash attack is a bit more tricky, but possible of course.
THANK YOU.
Do you mean at the brink of top tier, or solo viable? People who are at the brink of viable are bottom mid tiers. If you mean barely solo viable, then i guess you have a point. It aint melee man.
It's a potent weakness when you consider every one of his other weaknesses. That and he doesn't have strong top players consistently repping him in the US and Japan, which is where most of the big meta development tend to happen.
bc1910
is getting at is that Yoshi's had basically the entire game to prove himself, but hasn't really done so. MK only became viable relatively recently due to update patches and has made a very strong showing in a very short space of time.....
"brink of viable"
i guess "barely solo viable" sounds better
People secondary MK because they probably thought he was garbage on release (well he was), then got inspired by other people playing him not too long ago (because buffs and meta development).
I don't disagree with your terms, I just don't think they apply to Ryu in the same sense.
Sheik and ZSS are agreed upon. Everything after that is pretty boggled. Third spot is typically occupied by whatever player is currently losing to ZeRo or Nairo. With Dabuz absent from the top 8 for so long most people place Pikachu there but there are plenty of naysayers to Pikachu being in the Top 5. Same goes for Mario being in the Top 5.
lol i was just joking about the travel thing.
Keep in mind for Jigglypuff and Mewtwo it's more than just being really light. Jiggs is at severe risk of trading with every altercation and Mewtwo has a large hurtbox when he's hurt. For Sheik it's more than just her weight that justifies all of her safety, it's also her very low damage per hit which severely hinders her in free-for-alls. All those strings and combos don't look so impressive when other fighters keep getting in the way.
Not sure what you mean. This may come as a shock, but Meta Knight has been selectable on the character screen since the game came out, same goes for Yoshi. All the patches have done for Meta Knight are buffed his jab (which is still pitiful) and made his f-tilt just a little bit better. Besides, the current top-level MK mains have been maining him since release, the only exception being Abadango.It's a potent weakness when you consider every one of his other weaknesses. That and he doesn't have strong top players consistently repping him in the US and Japan, which is where most of the big meta development tend to happen.
I believe what
Yoshi has not proven himself to be capable of the same kind of work that MK has, even when he is otherwise cited as a fundamentally respectable character. I don't know if that is due to not having committed top-level mains in the US or if his not having committed mains is to do with his pretty big weaknesses, but he isn't really that much of a threat in the national sense. I'm willing to believe there's room for him to grow, but short of an ESAM or Dabuz taking up the mantle, I don't see it happening.
MK has a good recovery
It's very easy to be better than Yoshi for example, likely the same with Villager and possibly also Ness, and they're all better characters than Luigi now. Yoshi doesn't have safe approaches, gets nothing out of grabs, and doesn't have non-committal kill options. His main strength is pressuring you with his aerial speed and fair offstage and trapping you in the air with his nair and uair where shield isn't available to you. He's a good character, but he can seem overwhelming when he shouldn't if you don't abuse his lack of safety and linear options in neutral, especially when it comes to approaching and killing. He dies to disjoints and good rising SH aerials as well, and he can't really approach on the ground because his dash attack and dash grab are both slow and laggy. Eggs aren't safe either except sort of if Yoshi puts himself in the air first, but then he's counter-productively vulnerable because of putting himself in the air. Not going to go into the other characters, but I'll mention that Ness is still mostly being overrated because it's easier for Ness to abuse his strengths than it is for the opponent to abuse his (glaring) weaknesses that will only become more and more apparent with time. He also lacks mobility so his depth can't get developed too far relative to faster characters.
Lmao what
Could you start a conversation with me and give me the link there?
