Official Veterans Discussion

[Quillion]

I guess that's kind of subjective. I love the character. Exactly how he is. I was never, and will never, be disappointed in him or his gameplay. I thought he was perfect but I guess that's just my opinion. I'll admit that he's cloney but I think he's one of the best ones.

I'm honestly more annoyed that Star Fox's entire representation is just variations on "Laser, Forward Dash, Directional Dash, Reflector." On its own, Wolf's portrayal wouldn't be a problem, but when we have three variants on that set, that's too much.

Your next line will be: "But what about all of the Shotoclones in Street Fighter," right?

At least Akuma's diagonal fireball, Demon Flip, and Shun Goku Satsu provided sufficient distinction for his moveset.

Spoiler: P.S.

And yes, that was a freaking JoJo reference.

The best clone was and always will be Pichu, just because of how much his unique gimmick changed his fighting style.
Yes, he needs work to become a balanced character but that doesn't mean he doesn't have potential.

I think Roy is the best clone because of having the inverted tipper hitbox and his general portrayal. Only issue I see is that he needs a fire sword beam on his neutral B.

 

[ryuu seika]

Not a fan of half the Streetfighter cast for that exact reason TBH.

 

[Quillion]

Not a fan of half the Streetfighter cast for that exact reason TBH.

I know right? We have Ryu, Ryu with fire Shoryuken (Ken), Fast Ryu (Akuma), Evil Ryu (natch), Joke Ryu (Dan), Ryu fangirl (Sakura), amateur apprentice of Ryu with fire Shoryuken (Sean), Ryu's mentor (Gouken), More Evil Fast Ryu (Oni), officialized evil Ryu with fire Shoryuken from subpar crossover (Violent Ken)...

At least when Smash chooses which characters to clone, they choose a variety of characters instead of repeatedly cloning one character.

 

[kirbstr]

I'm honestly more annoyed that Star Fox's entire representation is just variations on "Laser, Forward Dash, Directional Dash, Reflector." On its own, Wolf's portrayal wouldn't be a problem, but when we have three variants on that set, that's too much.

Your next line will be: "But what about all of the Shotoclones in Street Fighter," right?

At least Akuma's diagonal fireball, Demon Flip, and Shun Goku Satsu provided sufficient distinction for his moveset.

Spoiler: P.S.

And yes, that was a freaking JoJo reference.

I think Roy is the best clone because of having the inverted tipper hitbox and his general portrayal. Only issue I see is that he needs a fire sword beam on his neutral B.

Well, every star fox character added was done so as a last minute clone. It's hard to make original movesets for character in space ships 99% of the time anyways.

 

[Quillion]

Well, every star fox character added was done so as a last minute clone. It's hard to make original movesets for character in space ships 99% of the time anyways.

I can only hope that Sakurai or whoever will take charge of Smash after him will add a Star Fox character that isn't "Laser, Forward Dash, etc." I can only take so much of that set before I start outright hating new additions that are yet more of it (I like Falco and Wolf individually, but together they don't make sense).

 

[Swamp Sensei]

just because of how much his unique gimmick changed his fighting style.

Not exactly.

Pichu's playstyle was the same as Pikachu's. Characters like Roy or Ganondorf changed enough where they physically cannot accomplish the same thing Marth and Falcon could do in Melee while also providing new alternatives in playstyle.

Pichu is Pikachu but with moves you want to avoid using but might be better off using. Pichu will approach most problems the same way as Pikachu.

Roy, Falco, Young Link and Ganondorf gave you different tools that could be just as effective or more effective than the characters they were based on.

Pichu just limited you and when you have several moves you don't want to use, that's not a good playstyle.

You can do almost everything Pikachu can, you just don't want to.

Pichu can be retooled into a cool glass fighter, but his current iteration is not unique or worth much praise.




That said, Pichu is adorable.

 

[ryuu seika]

Young Link feels almost identical to link and Ganondorf plays almost the same as Falcon, just slower. Falco and Roy may have different nuances to them compared to their original characters but Pichu immediately changes the way you play by making you think about when the moves you use are actually going to be beneficial.

I agree that the upside to the tradeoff he presents is far from enough to make him worthwhile but the fact that that tradeoff is there makes him a more intelligent character to play at even a beginner level. He has more potential than people give him credit for but he does need more upsides vs Pikachu to reach it.

 

[Quillion]

Pichu's an intentional Joke Character, the Dan Hibiki of Smash. Take away or severely reduce its drawbacks, and it doesn't have much character or uniquenesses that Pikachu doesn't already have.

At least when Jigglypuff was promoted from being a Joke, its character wasn't compromised in the process.

 

[kirbstr]

Young Link feels almost identical to link and Ganondorf plays almost the same as Falcon, just slower. Falco and Roy may have different nuances to them compared to their original characters but Pichu immediately changes the way you play by making you think about when the moves you use are actually going to be beneficial.

I agree that the upside to the tradeoff he presents is far from enough to make him worthwhile but the fact that that tradeoff is there makes him a more intelligent character to play at even a beginner level. He has more potential than people give him credit for but he does need more upsides vs Pikachu to reach it.

Pichu plays in no way any different from Pikachu, nor does he make you change the way you play the game. Most people who play Pichu (pretty much as a joke) just ignore his recoil all together. In fact, the thing that makes him hardest to play is his low range and light weight.

The two best true clones ever made are probably Falco, and Toon Link. Both give you different options in different scenarios and really change the way you play the characters. Falco has a more vertical playstyle compared to Fox's fast horizontal combos, and toon link is a faster, more item and neutral based character compared to link's spacing and ranged playstyle.

 

[NintenRob]

Of the Smash 4 newcomers, how would you rank their likelyness to return.

My list

Most Likely to return



















Least Likely to return

 

[fogbadge]

personally id says the miis have a much better chance than that

 

[NintenRob]

Yeah, Miis are oddball to me. I do think they'll return, but I think they'll be heavily reworked. So in a sense I think they'll be cut, but also be new?

 

[fogbadge]

Yeah, Miis are oddball to me. I do think they'll return, but I think they'll be heavily reworked. So in a sense I think they'll be cut, but also be new?

i follow, though so far sakurai has not been one ne for complete reworks much to the dismay of several fans

 

[Diddy Kong]

I know right? We have Ryu, Ryu with fire Shoryuken (Ken), Fast Ryu (Akuma), Evil Ryu (natch), Joke Ryu (Dan), Ryu fangirl (Sakura), amateur apprentice of Ryu with fire Shoryuken (Sean), Ryu's mentor (Gouken), More Evil Fast Ryu (Oni), officialized evil Ryu with fire Shoryuken from subpar crossover (Violent Ken)...

At least when Smash chooses which characters to clone, they choose a variety of characters instead of repeatedly cloning one character.

Marth was used to create the movesets of Roy, Lucina and Corrin. Corrin is quite unqiue however, but does borrow some stuffz. Ike is also sort of based on Marth's moveset in a broad sense, and Cloud is based off Ike's basic moveset.

Don't think that's bad honestly. I think it's actually quite damn brilliant and I hope they add more characters based on this.

Also Melee Roy was a TERRIBLE character overall. He's Diet Marth, he literally has half the range and spacing options whilst gaining nothing.

Best clones I think where Falco, Ganondorf and Young Link because they offered complete different play styles due to different weights, heights, fall speed and overall speed / power distrubution.

In Smash 4, I think Lucina is pretty damn brilliant.

 

[Quillion]

Yeah, Miis are oddball to me. I do think they'll return, but I think they'll be heavily reworked. So in a sense I think they'll be cut, but also be new?

Reworked how? I agree that they're still going to be around as long as Miis are still a thing (who can resist a customizable character, anyway?), but what kind of rework?

If you mean "introduce more Mii classes", I wouldn't consider that a real rework.

 

[NintenRob]

One thought that crossed my mind is making every character customizable. One thing you could do is give each character a mii head, and the miis would be cut that way.

Or simply reworked into one character. I just think they might think 3 movesets for one character is too much to bring back.

 

[Luminario]

The aerials and smash attack customisation for the Miis that was brought up idk how long ago is still a pretty good idea.

Also, if Robin comes back and they still have their god awful durability gimmick, at least let their movements and animations be more magical. If they can make the sword float during their taunts let the sword float during attacks too. I mean, jab flurry can have the sword spin in front of them, nair can have it orbit them once, stuff like that, and let them have a slow float during their dash instead of a run just like in FE Warriors.

 

[ryuu seika]

All I want to see from Miis is a "Gamer" class that references their actual games. Penguin slide dash attack from Wii Fit, alien abduction Up B from Wii Play's target shooting, the devil's butt jab from Miitopia, boxing gloves from Wii Sports for their actual jab combo. All that goodness that defines them as characters, rather than as generic nonentities.

 

[Quillion]

For Mii Classes, I would like to see:

• Wizard: Uses magic-based moves.
• Sportsman: Uses moves based on Wii Fit, Wii Sports.

 

[kirbstr]

The aerials and smash attack customisation for the Miis that was brought up idk how long ago is still a pretty good idea.

Also, if Robin comes back and they still have their god awful durability gimmick, at least let their movements and animations be more magical. If they can make the sword float during their taunts let the sword float during attacks too. I mean, jab flurry can have the sword spin in front of them, nair can have it orbit them once, stuff like that, and let them have a slow float during their dash instead of a run just like in FE Warriors.

I think the reason he's not super "magical" is because he is based off of his appearance in FE13. Swords used by mages still act like swords so he probably made him that way to reflect that.

 

[Luminario]

I think the reason he's not super "magical" is because he is based off of his appearance in FE13. Swords used by mages still act like swords so he probably made him that way to reflect that.

You're probably right, but it's just so blasé. If they're the only FE mage we're gonna get in the next game then give them a bit more pizazz. If mages aren't doing cool magic tricks throughout their entire moveset then what's the point?

 

[Quillion]

If mages aren't doing cool magic tricks throughout their entire moveset then what's the point?

I ask this question about a certain dark sorcerer from the Zelda series a lot...

 

[ryuu seika]

I ask this question about a certain dark sorcerer from the Zelda series a lot...

Ganondorf is more Magic Swordsman than straight up Mage. He could get away with being 50% sword moves.

 

[Quillion]

ryuu seika : I'd be good with just his Smash Attacks using his bladed weapons. To compensate, each of them would use something different: Trident for U-Smash, Sage Sword for F-Smash, and Twin Swords for D-Smash.

 

[ryuu seika]

As long as that F-Smash is also an energy projectile reflector, I'm happy.

 

[fogbadge]

well after getting my ash cap pikachu i would definitely like pikachu to have 100 000 000 volt thunder bolt as his final smash

i could work like shulk's or megaman's or i suppose he could just blast the stage with the attack

 

[lordvaati]

Reworked how? I agree that they're still going to be around as long as Miis are still a thing (who can resist a customizable character, anyway?), but what kind of rework?

If you mean "introduce more Mii classes", I wouldn't consider that a real rework.

Making them usable online for starters.

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

For Mii Classes, I would like to see:

• Wizard: Uses magic-based moves.
• Sportsman: Uses moves based on Wii Fit, Wii Sports.

I would love to see variations of the previous Mii Classes. Namely, the Swordfighter.

1: Uses Straight Sword and Shield
2. Uses Longsword
3 Uses Dagger
4 Uses Rapier
5 Uses Katana

And all that Jazz. Don't get me started on the Brawler.

 

[Quillion]

I would love to see variations of the previous Mii Classes. Namely, the Swordfighter.

1: Uses Straight Sword and Shield
2. Uses Longsword
3 Uses Dagger
4 Uses Rapier
5 Uses Katana

And all that Jazz. Don't get me started on the Brawler.

So you mean the Brawler would be split into Boxer, Karate master, Tai Chi master, and so on?

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

So you mean the Brawler would be split into Boxer, Karate master, Tai Chi master, and so on?

Correct! The Brawler has so much potential for movesets involving different fighting styles, similar to Absolver.

1. The Guy Type: Quick and nimble, but low in offense and defense. Could specialize in Ninjitsu, Tai Chi, Kung Fu, Jeet Kun Do, etc. Could be based on lightweights in fighters, like Chun Li and Vega.

2. The Cody Type: A balanced set of strengths and weaknesses. Could specialize in Karate, Kickboxing, Muay Thai, Tae Kwon Do, etc. Could be based on middleweights like Ken and Guile.

3. The Haggar Type: Strong and tough, but lacking in speed and agility. Could specialize in all forms of Wrestling, Judo, MMA, Boxing, etc. Could be based in heavyweights like Zangief and E. Honda.

That's all I got... so far.

 

[Blackwolf666]

And the gunner would be split into a arm canon ( slow running speed with powerful projectiles like Samus), pistol ( a light gun that won't weigh the user down like falco), and arsenal ( tons of tools and gadgets used in place of guns like Bowser Jr).

possibly even a magic type that uses a staff like Pauletena.

 

[Quillion]

I forget if I've posted this in this thread before (I did in the BotW Link thread), but I've had this inkling that if the developers are hurting for new character ideas (because let's face it, not every IP is major enough to deserve a full playable character), they could give certain (not all) characters multiple normal sets. Their special sets would be separately customizable, but the normal sets are all one or another. For example:

• Mario and Luigi could use their hammers or punching, with Doc getting a giant reflex hammer.
• Link could use a two-handed sword or his Master Sword.
• Zelda could use her rapier.
• Ike could wield an axe.
• Ness could use his bat (moving his F-Smash to the alt set).
• Kirby could use his Beam whip or any other ability.
• And of course, Ganondorf will finally get to use his sword for normals.

It would be a good way of keeping old movesets while letting us play with vets in new ways. But again, that's just a hypothesis.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

Wolf and Ice Climbers deserve to return for the next Smash.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Wolf and Ice Climbers deserve to return for the next Smash.

And, uh...



*Cough*

 

[fogbadge]

you know id quite like it the villager was made taller in the next smash to keep in with the more recent looks

 

[nirvanafan]

you know id quite like it the villager was made taller in the next smash to keep in with the more recent looks

I would like that, although what would be even better is alts based on gc villager with the default hats you were stuck with.

 

[CrusherMania1592]

And, uh...



*Cough*

He deserves it more than Pichu and Young Link, but if I were to choose two only, Snake would be left out

Snake vs Bayonetta on the other hand sounds pretty...intense lmao

 

[Luminario]

I would like that, although what would be even better is alts based on gc villager with the default hats you were stuck with.

They really do need to go all out with the Villager alts. If anyone got more than 8 alts in Smash it should have been Villager thanks to the amount of outfits in the game.

 

[Quillion]

I want Snake as well, but unfortunately, I don't think we'll be getting him until Konami gets their **** together.

 

[RealLuigisWearPink]

I love Snake but Bomberman/Simon>Snake IMO. I would love him in though if we can get all 3

Anyway, my most wanted cut vets are Wolf and the IC's