Various Matchup Analysis and Thoughts

[CT Chia]

I'm trying to think a lot more about various matchups and how they effect ROB and what can be done to put the opponent in the worse situation and what stages to counterpick, etc.

What's really on my mind now is that I lost to 2 Toon Links in r2 of Apex Pools, and yet I didn't lose to a single MK at the tourney. I can hardly beat Kingtoon these days, and yet I'm beating great MKs left and right.

I'm taking these two matchups as the prime example off the top of my mind because MK is thought by many to be ROB's worst matchup (not imo tho) and Toon Link is a random mid tier character...

Toon Link: TL has very fast vertical speed in jumping around while ROB is incredibly slow in this sense, which always keeps TL out of ROB's range. Lasers and gyros become increasinly useless in this situation and TL has 3 projectiles to cover him in every direction he wants (4 direction bombs, side + diagonal boomerangs, long range side arrows). So like... how do we get in? When TL plays a ground game we're fine, that's when powershielding is obviously the way to go as we can get good follow ups, and punish from long range, but when he's that high above us it's like he's in a giant blind spot ROB didn't know existed. So what's the best way to go about this matchup?

Meta Knight: Is it really all that bad? Yes MK ***** ROB, but I'm thinking again that as we approach to higher level play it gets closer and closer. Even though in every confrontation MK has more options than ROB does, the one's ROB has aren't bad. With proper prediction and mix ups you'll be exiting these confrontations successful. The HUGE thing here is that nearly all of MKs approaches can be beaten by some of ROBs moves, and not just any move - KILL moves most of the time. Tornado? Loses to fsmash and nair. Dash attack? Looses to fsmash, grab, and dsmash. Fair? Loses to fair. Dair? Loses to uair. There are even some wtf things like dair'ing a MK out of his nado or side B, or usmashing a MKs nado.

Here's the key thing between the two matchups - MKs lack of projectiles. TL is never forced to approach out of this blind spot because he's fine with projectiles. It makes it so he is fine as he is and nearly always safe. The problem with MK though, he is eventually forced to approach (sort of, idk it's confusing with stalling rules) and when he does, that's when ROB can do things to him. If MK doesn't approach, most of the time he gets smacked with lasers and gyros.

So like... idk. Random thoughts from me.

 

[KingKong_ad]

What do you think of the bowser MU ?

 

[TheMike]

So what's the best way to go about this matchup?

The best way is going off stage. ROB can easily punish Toon Link's Up B when he comes from below by dropping off the ledge using Bair. Dair works as well. We all know his ability to gimp characters, and even if he doesn't gimp Toon Link, a lot of damage will be racked considering he can still be edgeguarded. Every % is worthwhile since ROB lacks of kill capacity.

However, going off stage isn't very easy. Toon Link's camping game is better than ROB's, and therefore, I wouldn't shoot many lasers and gyros. The latter can also be his fourth projectile, lol. If ROB doesn't camp, he shoud play aggro looking for a gimp(this should only be done on some matchups in which our camping game is worse). Powershield everything to approach and use Ftilt when Toon Link is on its range and to space yourself. Then try something to take him off stage, such as Bair(which is a great move to use overall) and F/Bthrow. Finally, start the happy-Fair way of playing.

In my opinion, off stage is the only place where ROB can win the Toon Link matchup.

 

[Mister Eric]

Ah cool, you went ahead and made the thread xD
But I'm still lagged out from APEX and lacking sleep, so until I don't have a mind-splitting headache, aka sleep well tonight, I'll hold off on reading this.

But what I do hope comes from this thread is the attitude switch from "IT'S HOPELESS!" to hopefully "It's hopeless?"

 

[CT Chia]

lol I only thought it was hopeless back when I first made that thread

It's been "not hopeless" for a while now

Off stage is great for ROB in the matchup, but uhh... you need to get TL out there first

What do you think of the bowser MU ?

lol wow I thought you didnt post on swf. you're spying on the robs! same as I've always thought really, ROB wins, but not by that much, or at least by as much as some people would think.

 

[TheMike]

Off stage is great for ROB in the matchup, but uhh... you need to get TL out there first.

Yeah. One of the main issues.

 

[KingKong_ad]

I post on swf just not often, also I dont have internet at my house for the moment so I had to go to a friends house >.>

 

[Leisha]

I really hate the toon link matchup, really does give me trouble. People in the past would say rob can just outcamp him, but really he doesn't at all. :/

I loved watching your bowser play at apex kingkong =) I was watching over stream rooting for ya <3.

I guess the rob boards might have to start going into more depth with their matchup strategies, since i heard people with less experience usually provide the information there. I would say I'm most likely one of those people because I cannot provide enough detail in what I'm trying to explain sadly :<. Also the stage thread might need a better explanation of what to do (If you look in the marth stage threads you'll know what I mean) instead of a small summery which only points out the good and bad things for ROB.

Just some suggestions from me to help make the rob boards stronger.

 

[Mister Eric]

lol I only thought it was hopeless back when I first made that thread

It's been "not hopeless" for a while now

sure, but it still seems to be an overall consensus. Holy even talks about how bad rob is and some MUs just aren't doable. makes me a frowny face to here both current/former mains talk this way.

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King Kong is legit. I remember playing him on wifi like a year ago and he whooped me xD I knew then that w/e princess he captured, that b**tch ain't getting saved. You and your Holy practice ^_^

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Leisha, I totally agree with you that we need stage discussions like the Marf boardz. At least like their Norfair and Brinstar threads. So impressive. It's time to step up rob's game with hopefully help from this thread, so you can wreck Aussie land =]<3

 

[Commander_Beef]

usmashing a MKs nado.

Does this work every time?

 

[CT Chia]

Everytime a MK is stupid enough to nado that high above you

I've also hit it on the side, but have only done it once. it would be a lot more useful considering the height is a tad higher than the appropriate nado height to fsmash, and would be mad useful to master. but that spacing has to be like wow perfect

 

[TeeVee]

my thoughts on rob:


i am completely dropping him officially (ive always said it but never stayed true) except vs ics.


sorry guiz

 

[Commander_Beef]

Everytime a MK is stupid enough to nado that high above you

I've also hit it on the side, but have only done it once. it would be a lot more useful considering the height is a tad higher than the appropriate nado height to fsmash, and would be mad useful to master. but that spacing has to be like wow perfect

Hahaa! A funny man, you are. I think I'll put this situation in the 'trashcan techskills' list. There's so many for ROB but half of them are either useless mindgames that most of the time don't mindgame, or are for iffy situations. lol

 

[Hater]

The biggest problem with tl i have (i play against australias best player a toon link main quite often) is just the sheer speed of tl combined with projectiles makes it very difficult to camp. In this mu i tend to play at mid range spacing fairs and nairs whilst keeping drigger (gyro) fully charged. Offstage isnt a walk in teh park if the tl knows what he is doin i.e. using up airs/b airs/bombs to make his up b safe. I personally think this is a 60/40 mu the real way to victory is punishing when they get predictable up close besides that remember they dont have a good grab game and abuse it

 

[ccst]

Yeah, we need to finish off at least the MU's and the Stages. And I hate Toon Link too, it's defeniately a 40:60 MU... btw, can someone explain to me of what to do vs a ZSS? I hate that MU badly! -.-

 

[Silhouette]

Yeah, we need to finish off at least the MU's and the Stages. And I hate Toon Link too, it's defeniately a 40:60 MU... btw, can someone explain to me of what to do vs a ZSS? I hate that MU badly! -.-

Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjG-rQb6CAU

Then get REALLY F*ckin good with items.

 

[CT Chia]

zamus falls into the "you can ftilt them" mantra imo

its just harder to than characters like marth.

 

[ccst]

I watched it, thanks, but it didn't help so much. I've heard that you should camp ZSS and make her approach you. And I can also admitt I'm annoying right now. =/

 

[Commander_Beef]

zamus falls into the "you can ftilt them" mantra imo

That's called autopiloting. lol

 

[Silhouette]

I watched it, thanks, but it didn't help so much. I've heard that you should camp ZSS and make her approach you. And I can also admitt I'm annoying right now. =/

Then you will need to post more specific problems that you're having for me to help you. I would prefer you continue this via PM's or AiM: SiLMcCloud110

 

[sneakytako]

Dude chibo, the TL MU is different that any other ROB MU in the game in that he can out camp us. Gryo's are pretty worthless in this MU, and you pretty much have to make a read in order to land a laser. This is a MU where your Powershielding will be put to the test, it is imperative that you PS when approaching. But the real key to winning the MU is surviving. TL doesn't have very good options to kill a runaway-ROB, as long as you avoid the kill moves at the right places you should win the longer games. Eventually a chance to gimp/kill TL will appear if patient enough.

 

[Exdeath]

Chibo, can you be more specific about what TL is doing and/or provide a video of it?

 

[T0MMY]

sneaky, need me to give Quivo a beat down for ya? mwahah.

Chip's TL has given me problems, but the main problem was patience... which I have a lot of. The game would usually come down to the last minute because he doesn't ever approach. My wins against him are more meaningful when I think about how he's been one of the top TL players AND has had plenty of R.O.B. experience with Jamnt0ast.

I think I have a writeup here or there on TL, things have changed nowadays, I'm sure. Perfect Shielding is needed in this MU.
And I think I'll go ahead and say it's a more difficult MU than the MK matchup, but I don't really have a lot of TL experience compared to all the MKs in tournaments, so maybe that's why? lol

Also, don't forget about his Z-air... it's so annoying.

 

[Nintendevil]

TL can **** you if he gets vertical. You know what I mean. Keep him away from above/below you and Fair his projectiles. Also no Gyro (as stated above.) It's too slow and has a low priority.

Ok to be honest IDK what I'm doing here. All I remember is Metaknight is bad. I have a sprained ankle and I can't go out so I went through a list of my old bookmarks.

 

[Silhouette]

Metaknight sprained this kids ankle, ban him.

 

[GwJ]

The best way is going off stage. ROB can easily punish Toon Link's Up B when he comes from below by dropping off the ledge using Bair. Dair works as well. We all know his ability to gimp characters, and even if he doesn't gimp Toon Link, a lot of damage will be racked considering he can still be edgeguarded. Every % is worthwhile since ROB lacks of kill capacity.

However, going off stage isn't very easy. Toon Link's camping game is better than ROB's, and therefore, I wouldn't shoot many lasers and gyros. The latter can also be his fourth projectile, lol. If ROB doesn't camp, he shoud play aggro looking for a gimp(this should only be done on some matchups in which our camping game is worse). Powershield everything to approach and use Ftilt when Toon Link is on its range and to space yourself. Then try something to take him off stage, such as Bair(which is a great move to use overall) and F/Bthrow. Finally, start the happy-Fair way of playing.

In my opinion, off stage is the only place where ROB can win the Toon Link matchup.

I'VE.
BEEN.
SAYING.
THIS.
FOR.
OVER.
A.
YEAR.





Except for every matchup :3

 

[TheMike]

You taught me so. :]

 

[CT Chia]

Yea but like, you gotta get him off stage first lol. The best thing I'm thinking of on stage is to pay close attention to his double jump habits and catch him as he lands sans dj

 

[GwJ]

Oh. I was referring to staying offstage yourself. Not getting him offstage. That's a good idea though. Get TL offstage.

Yep.

Ignore my tactics.



:[

 

[Exdeath]

Yea but like, you gotta get him off stage first lol. The best thing I'm thinking of on stage is to pay close attention to his double jump habits and catch him as he lands sans dj

You can mix up running forward and B to pressure TL in the air.

 

[Mister Eric]

I figured we could do something to MK out of his Shuttle Loop at close range. I considered this, forgot about it and never tested it since I was at home and alone for the summer, but this might be semi-legit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81tzL0YMyH0
2:10 - 2:12

Not really seen a rob do this on a regular basis, so..... whatdoyasay?!

 

[ccst]

It seems semi legit. But poor R.O.B., can't really do anything against a spammy Meta Knight. =/

 

[Mister Eric]

oh yus he can! and that's why this thread is here. to get by all things gay.

 

[CT Chia]

ROB can't really do anything against aggressive off stage MK :/

 

[-LzR-]

Even Ganon can do something to spammy meta knight, meta doesn't spam, learn your matchups please.

 

[Mister Eric]

ROB can't really do anything against aggressive off stage MK :/

Limited options, remember?

 

[Silhouette]

I figured out TONS about the TL MU this weekend.

Eric and me make quite the team.

 

[Mister Eric]

My heart is still pounding from that set, beepo.

 

[Nova9000]

I figured out TONS about the TL MU this weekend.

Eric and me make quite the team.

Please share .

 

[Bees!]

I figured we could do something to MK out of his Shuttle Loop at close range. I considered this, forgot about it and never tested it since I was at home and alone for the summer, but this might be semi-legit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81tzL0YMyH0
2:10 - 2:12

Not really seen a rob do this on a regular basis, so..... whatdoyasay?!

I saw a video of Ninjalink do the same thing...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPuZtMMadoU
5:49-5:51

Also I think at lower percents we can get fAir and uAir oos.

Also after watching Ocean play ROB I think we might not have given him a fair shake. He is a very smart player and a lot of his technicality does seem to help a lot in the MK MU(pivoting lasers and gyros) it seems to keep you mobile. Which is very good.
Also I have no MKs to practice on but anyways I have an idea if anyone can test it

As we know ROB has some decent options for beating nado. The only problem is spaced nados so I ask this...How would stutter-stepping fSmash do vs MKs nado? especially if he were to start it too close to be fsmashed but at the level in the air that if you were able to get it off you would hit him. So maybe stutter-stepping can offset his spacing just enough to get that off. What do you say? seem doable?