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VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

DoH

DoH

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I beat some of Texas' hidden bosses - MT and tirno - who are really solid players. Lots of peach vs marth and falco for all y'all that are having trouble with those

Vids will be up later
 
Silly Kyle

Silly Kyle

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I got 2nd at a tournament yesterday.

I beat Tai's Marth 3-1 and beat GG7's Falcon 3-0 (get at me MacD)

lost to Axe in Winner's Finals and Grand Finals
 
MacD

MacD

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john! said:
i'm still not sure what SK did to deserve your f*ggotry
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short version is we were all hanging out at genesis 2, playing on a tv with tons of peaches. we were all joking around and having fun because me, alan, doh, vanz, and connor all had history together. we're playing peach ditto teams, he is in the rotation mind you, then he asks if we wanna do something else and we all say no, then idk what happened but he called us all ******* and walked away.

then he tried too hard to not be one of us, but then also want to be included, but also would post borderline porn and ***** and stuff, which none of us really are too keen about

so tl;dr we tried to accept him, but then he got mad at us, and then we were like "uhhh wtf?? ok whatever"
 
ConnorTheKid

ConnorTheKid

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DoH said:
Won another tournament today
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how good is the Texas scene? I never hear about them/assume they aren't exactly the best competition

either way, winning a tournament is always nice, so


MacD said:
me, alan, doh, vanz, and connor all had history together. we're playing peach ditto teams
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I'm pretty sure vanz wasn't there...maybe I got a lot more drunk that weekend than I thought LOL
 
DoH

DoH

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Hmmm. It's hard to compare them to other regions since they don't travel as much, but tirno has beaten Darkrain before and MT is probably better than tai, the moon, and hbk but not as good as pewpewu. Arc had a close set with silent wolf at Apex, and mojo is super attractive and really janky
 
Silly Kyle

Silly Kyle

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I was writing a really long post but I decided to keep it cute and not cause any drama on the Peach boards, cuz there would have been.

All I have to say is I will see you b****es at EVO. Prepare to get stomped :)

Btw MacD, I took a set off Axe in the first set of GFs, winning 3-2, then losing 1-3 in the second set. I'd like to see you beat Axe in a best of 5 instead of a best of 3.

Kthx
 
Xyzz

Xyzz

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Aww *puts away popcorn*

I'm also on the side of "actually beat them or it's not that interesting". Can you say for sure that Axe was not trying stuff because he had one set to goof around? (I'm not saying that it was that way, just pointing out that there is that possibility).
 
MacD

MacD

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Silly Kyle said:
I was writing a really long post but I decided to keep it cute and not cause any drama on the Peach boards, cuz there would have been.

All I have to say is I will see you b****es at EVO. Prepare to get stomped :)

Btw MacD, I took a set off Axe in the first set of GFs, winning 3-2, then losing 1-3 in the second set. I'd like to see you beat Axe in a best of 5 instead of a best of 3.

Kthx
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after how many times losing?? you were hardly close 2nd set.

pretty sure i'm like 5-1 or something against him. the one time i lost i was hella cocky and it was in pools and i thought it was gonna be free.

but i'm sure you're right, if it was 3/5 then axe would have won all 5 of those sets......:rolleyes:
 
aztec smacher

aztec smacher

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Can somebody help me please ...what is the best way to practice chain grabs on spacies ? Am trying level 1 CPU sbut i..s hard my dash animation does not come out in time ...enysuggestions thank you
 
The Irish Mafia

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cping you to Mute at a MDZ tourney
ShroudedOne said:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bN4m6Hrpis

Have at it. :p Thanks in advance.
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Ah, falcon vs peach. The matchup from hell, and I say that having played it from both sides.

The only time you aren't moving towards him is when you're rolling away (usually right after having launched some kind of offense). That isn't terrible because running away from falcon carries the possibility of getting kneed, but you gotta be able to adjust your spacing more frequently than rolling allows. This is why Armada does the wd back thing vs falcon, so he doesn't have to turn his back.

You try to chase down falcon, even in the air. His air mobility > yours. You can only be in the air vs falcon if there is a turnip controlling the space between you and him. For this reason, I recommend throwing turnips up when safe. You'll fullhop nair to challenge his jump, which is the right idea, but if you whiff and don't fade away it's just an unsafe whiff. I saw you space him out with fullhop bair, which was unsafe for the same reason. If it whiffed, you'd just land where you did the move and do something else. You need to go back to your space. If you keep moving forward, you're approaching.

If you hafta mix up falcon when he respawns, do run away -> shorthop turnaround turnip throw -> (no aerial, empty land behind him while he blocks the turnip) -> Dsmash. It's gonna shield stab for massive damage.

Compared to the spacies, Falcon's kinda chunky. He has to respect dash attack in a different way than them, so while it isn't quite as useful in this MU than vs space animals, it's still gonna keep him out of your face. I think you coulda thrown it out just a bit more. Most of your approaches were float cancels, which often end up being punishable for falcon for one reason or another. A good example is 1:04, where you space a float nair over his shieldgrab, but then land right in front of him. You had a good height for that situation, but you tried to cancel it even though you were already safe from what he was trying to do. If you're floating and they're shielding, just maintain the height during the aerial, then float back to safety and land. At 1:30, you had him on the ledge shielding. While you went for a grab, you pillared first, and he just grabbed. I dunno why your pillar didn't work, but that's just the way it is. It's falcon.

This is a collapsed post and all and I don't expect everyone to read this, but I gotta make this clear: The only real approach peach has is dash attack and turnip-fair. The goal isn't to hit them with these situations; the only reward for a hit is percent, and after 40%, damage really doesn't matter barring specific setups. All you want to do with your approaches is force your opponent to work around them and the space they control. If armada is wding back like a crazy *****, you are not going to enter dash attack range, 'cause you know what's bout to happen.
So how does one get around dash attack? People will try many things, but if peach spaces it right, there's only two effective solutions. They can either predictively jump, or predictively shield (reacting to dash attack only works if they're spaced to do it). If they jump, then they surrender the groundspace, and will probably try to attack on landing, which can be punished. If they block, it's a dash attack/grab/dsmash mixup. You need to create these situations to pressure properly.
Keep in mind, controlling space is not about hitting them. You could've stopped him from fullhopping/doublejumping in the center, but it would've involved controlling the space: Poising yourself to hit him if he enters that space, waiting for him to enter that space, and then attacking once he does so.
I feel like this is really important so if I can explain or clarify this at all, please ask.

You spend most of your neutral time in the air, usually jumping to float and then zoning your way forward into an agressive position. That's scary as **** to falcon, but he can uair/commitment knee, which is a winning trade that you can't avoid if you're up there.
To that point: You always drop your floats while moving forward. This is still approaching, even if you think the fc fair makes it safe. Your aerial drop will only be safe if you land in safe space.

Towards the end of game 1 you start throwing out dash attack more, but it's kinda willy-nilly. You should be using it to trade with nair (not to launch, but to displace him. You recover from that trade faster than he does). You lost game 1 because you played on his terms. You were attacking and he was responding. I know it's scary to let falcon come to you, but that's how you win the matchup.

Beginning of game 2, you visibly respected his approach and dealt with it. You returned to your rushdown a tad too fast. You'd leave your platform defense far too quickly, pretty much as soon as you'd see an opportunity. Armada's wd back dash attack defense revolves around holding that one position under the platform. You'd leave that position to chase down unsafe things. Point is: Using positioning to get a hit does not warrant leaving that positioning to attempt another hit. That's how I see you getting into a lot of bad situations.
4:45 is what I'm talking about in terms of unsafe approaches. You can't move forward nearly that much. You gotta wd back and time your dash attack in order to establish that space. Make it look like you're surrendering space, and then punish their approach. IE 7:25.

TLDR:
• Your forte is floating and moving forward. You did this very well at the end of game 2. Sadly, both these things suck against falcon. Being at a consistent height vs falcon is asking for a knee, and moving forward is begging for it. Bait more approaches, and do not go in the air unless it's to trade a sh nair/bair with his approach.
• You don't use dash attack to control the space you need vs falcon. This is because you are very rarely at enough range to space it so it can control that space. This will enable you to stop him from moving, which will in turn enable mixups. Create that space.
• You are unable to pull turnips for the same reason as the above. He will control your airspace unless there are things in it. Create more space.
• PATIENCE! You lack the discipline to wait in your space. Approaching is cool and all but it's very unsafe in this matchup.

Lemme know if you have any questions, comments, disagreements or long-term feuds.
 
Strong Badam

Strong Badam

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aztec smacher said:
Can somebody help me please ...what is the best way to practice chain grabs on spacies ? Am trying level 1 CPU sbut i..s hard my dash animation does not come out in time ...enysuggestions thank you
Click to expand...
go for level 4 CPUs ^^
 
Heero Yuy

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I hope all this training pays off eventually... At the same time, when I got to my first tournament, I hope not to get too technical to the point I don't play smart. :o
 
Nintendude

Nintendude

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So I tried Peach in singles for real (like against someone at my level) for the first time last weekend. Anyone here up for giving me some tips?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmhOVqzs9L8

I feel like the set was very winnable but little mental errors here and there added up. Also some missed tech stuff but those mistakes are pretty obvious.
 
Wake

Wake

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Thank you Based Mimi.
Nice job DoH. I still have to deal with the Peach killer you helped forge, though he's been playing more P:M lately.

Also, seeing Gerard Butler as I scrolled down was nice haha. Thank you Connor.
 
Babatunde

Babatunde

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I am liking this peach thread.
Anybody know anything smash related goin on in atlantic south?
 
Heero Yuy

Heero Yuy

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Xyzz said:
If tech skill is second nature it doesn't really affect your ability to play smart. It can only be a problem if you have to devote mental attention to it.
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I made the same mistake in Brawl when I badly lost since I got too technical and less smart. I've been trying to avoid those habits so I won't do the same in Melee.

Day 12 of Hardcore Execution Training Complete.

Just preparing my anus today against my friend who's coming over, who's a decent Marth player. Blah, just imagine the adrenaline when I enter my first tournament.
 
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