VaNz Stuff.. about Peach (Tactical Discussion)

[The Irish Mafia]

vanz

What is the point of being able to FC nair quickly
other than something cool to do when Pokemon Stadium is in Rock or Fire form, anyway

 

[Samochan]

vanz

What is the point of being able to FC nair quickly
other than something cool to do when Pokemon Stadium is in Rock or Fire form, anyway

If I may. :3

Nair is basically her quickest aerial, coming out on frame 3 and also her deadliest horizonal ko and (possibly) forward moving attack starting from 100% (fair has stronger knockback below 100%), so it's good in ko'ing opponents from OoS, dd's, edgeguards and so on. I'd say it's her most useful KO move. You'll get most use of the nair if you are able to initiate it quickly on any given situation, not just still fc nairs or dashed fc nairs. So being able to capitalise on opponent mistakes as quickly as possible and maybe score a ko is good advantage to have. Real quick fc nairs can also sometimes be used against shield into dsmash to break em without them being able to grab, for example, alongside comboing at low% or in more extreme cases, float cancel nairing against shield in such a fast pace or style one is hard pressed to punish it.

 

[Cia]

The Irish mafia (i'm going to refer to you as TIM from now on):

Samochan gave an excellent to your question. In fact, i'm going to add that to the OP at some point as part of an FAQ section. Also, sorry i haven't been able to update the first post in a while. When i get my computer back, i can add more stuff, but i'm on my iPhone in the mean time.

 

[DtJ Jungle]

is it possible to keep FC nairing on a shield so you dont get shield grabbed

sorry if samo answered that in his post but that part is unclear

 

[Cia]

Only on the light shield. Ans that'll only work until they get pushed out of range. But there's a small window of opportunity for then to escape while in regular shield, so most people will just buffer roll

 

[Samochan]

It is possible to pressure shield without them being able to retaliate effectively from it if you are very quick from your fingers (dancing queen 90 comes to mind, for example), but as vanz said, you can puffer a roll. But one can also anticipate that roll or capitalise on them if they like to punish peach OoS (like fox dairing), more float cancels wear down the shield and make it more susceptible for dsmash shieldstab, alongside the spacing possibilities (like going trough shield with dashed fc nair).

 

[blast_ssbb]

sorry if my questions r mad basic but i just picked up this ***** and i dont look at guides and **** cuz most of them r outdated.

a) wats her most effective edgeguard in your opinions as peach players for say falcon, shiek, marth, other peaches and samuses? idc about spacies since pretty much anything she does ***** them.

b) i would like to know (if there is an exact answer) how high she can float and still float cancel her aerials or is just like as long as u float and use it it always fcs? like ive been playing wit it but i honestly cant tell if im too high or if i didnt do it right or watever sorry if im a noob wit peach. like she can still float cancel if ur floating over lasers and stuff right?

c) do u guys ever use f-smash/up-smash? like i saw armada using it in crews vs vwins (upsmashing like alot like he was spamming it almost on edgeguards)

d) wat color ya use just outta curiosity :D

e) any cool setups ya use when u have stitch/bobomb/ beam sword? ive been playing around wit fc aerials while im holding it to get them to block/roll.


While the answers to these questions might seem obvious ive only played my peach vs my lil brothers who pretty much suck at smash i havent played her vs ppl that r even on a decent level so most of these questions r pre-emptive wat should i do in those situation questions :D

thnx in advance anyone who answers :D

 

[Teczer0]

sorry if my questions r mad basic but i just picked up this ***** and i dont look at guides and **** cuz most of them r outdated.

a) wats her most effective edgeguard in your opinions as peach players for say falcon, shiek, marth, other peaches and samuses? idc about spacies since pretty much anytime she tries something she gets ***** anyway.

a) Falcon - Usually dair -> nair works wonders and should be your primary edgeguard tactic.

Grab edge and chase with grab or dsmash is useful too sometimes.

b)Sheik - Grab edge into dsmash/grab/FC aerial usually works against sheik. She is really easy to edgeguard once you get the hang of it. The trick is to force her to use that awful up-b onto the stage so that she stays in that animation forever. I also like go a little far out with bairs. It sometimes induces sheiks to fall down then you just grab edge and do the above.

c)Marth - I personally like the Xif edgeguard vs marth. Grab turnip, float over the edge looking toward the stage. Then just drop the turnip and grab the edge.

If the marth up-bs into the turnip usually thats far enough where he can't grab edge. Or you edgeguard him if he manages to get past the turnip.

You can also grab edge and do a falling bair. The invincibility frames cover for her and marth gets ***** cuz his horizontal recovery is awful.

e) Samus/Peach - I'm too lazy/I dunno

b) i would like to know (if there is an exact answer) how high she can float and still float cancel her aerials or is just like as long as u float and use it it always fcs? like ive been playing wit it but i honestly cant tell if im too high or if i didnt do it right or watever sorry if im a noob wit peach. like she can still float cancel if ur floating over lasers and stuff right?

The only requirement for FC aerials is that you are performing the aerial during your flight and that landing on the ground interrupts your aerial.

Basically, there is really no height restriction per say. You just have to make sure you drop out of your float with an aerial and land during the aerial animation.

Yes she can FC aerials over lasers.

c) do u guys ever use f-smash/up-smash? like i saw armada using it in crews vs vwins (upsmashing like alot like he was spamming it almost on edgeguards)

Fsmashing can be useful because when you use it peach moves back a little bit. So you could sometimes avoid a move then hit people with an fsmash which is neat. Personally I like dtilt better but *shrugs*

Upsmashing can be kinda useful too. Her entire body pretty much becomes a Hitbox and any of the weak hits usually link to a free aerial. It can be a KO move too, but hitting the sweetspot is sometimes difficult so I usually don't expect it to KO on its own. Its a strange move, you have to kinda just try it out.

d) wat color ya use just outta curiosity :D

Green/Blue yeauzzzzzz

e) any cool setups ya use when u have stitch/bobomb/ beam sword? ive been playing around wit fc aerials while im holding it to get them to block/roll.


While the answers to these questions might seem obvious ive only played my peach vs my lil brothers who pretty much suck at smash i havent played her vs ppl that r even on a decent level so most of these questions r pre-emptive wat should i do in those situation questions :D

thnx in advance anyone who answers :D

I'm really not that inventive with my item combos really. Probably because usually when I use a turnip my purpose is to get my opponent to shield.

If I have a stitch I usually get more aggressive because some players get terrified and just throw out reflective moves for no reason.

I usually see if I can link a fair into stitch though.

 

[blast_ssbb]

thnx alot hailey :D input from other ppl would be amazing just so i can kinda mesh different ideas together. starting from scratch wit a char is hard >.>

 

[The Irish Mafia]

@vanz to the Shieldbreak question last page:

Actually, Me and a friend determined that if done FRAME PERFECT, the fc nair shieldbreaker is un-grabbable or rollable. However, it's next to impossible to do.

 

[Scar]

mango does not try in friendlies, all you can do is hope to get a glimpse of his genius in certain situations in a match

 

[MacD]

vanz i watched a random match from you and i noticed instead of nair shield pressure, you did a FC uair on the ground and then followed up after it hit the shield, i've done that before just to change it up because people are normally like wtf if an uair hits their shield

have you found it purposeful, or is just more so just to do something different and hope it messes with your opponent, or just pointless and not really worth it

sorry if my questions r mad basic but i just picked up this ***** and i dont look at guides and **** cuz most of them r outdated.

those few basic guides are still helpful, even if you just skim it for things like your FC questions

a) wats her most effective edgeguard in your opinions as peach players for say falcon, shiek, marth, other peaches and samuses? idc about spacies since pretty much anything she does ***** them.

depending on the samus, just learn how they like to recover, you can throw turnips and try to hit the bombs or hit her, or if they are a little higher you can float out and go hit them with a fair or something, it's harder when they recover with the grapple and go to upb

c) do u guys ever use f-smash/up-smash? like i saw armada using it in crews vs vwins (upsmashing like alot like he was spamming it almost on edgeguards)

i like them both, the ******** priority of up smash is nice, and fsmash has it's advantages, pan can combo, tennis raquet can gimp, golfclub can hit hard, though there are normally better options for edge guarding, i sometimes use fsmash to edge guard, but i'm really lucky and normally always get the raquet or club when i need them

the range of the club can be helpful but most people will not use fsmash, but it definately can have it's moments

and like teczero said, dtilt is really nice

d) wat color ya use just outta curiosity :D

i use that (apparently ugly) blue one

e) any cool setups ya use when u have stitch/bobomb/ beam sword? ive been playing around wit fc aerials while im holding it to get them to block/roll.

the nice things about bombs and the sword is that if you throw them, the trajectory is almost vertical and they go fast so they can catch people off guard who are recovering high above you, or are far away

with stiches, i don't mind throwing them at shields because you can catch it again, or go do something to them off the billions of years of shield stun they have (if you are close)

 

[Kouryuu]

mango does not try in friendlies, all you can do is hope to get a glimpse of his genius in certain situations in a match

Pretty much, unless you start to beat him often and make him mad. Then he gets off in one match... and then goes back to sandbagging again.

 

[Pink Shinobi]

Dear VaNz,

I'm not going to Pound 4. So I guess we can't do our 200.00 money match.

Sincerely,

Your Neighborhood Shinobi

Edit: If you ever come to Cali, PM me. ^_^ We can gamble then.

 

[CanISmash]

hi vanz. no questions but i started playing peach lmfao. armada has changed my peach into flashy ******** combos and im working on finally doing the super fc aerials.

ask otg/ritz/prog bout dem combos tho lololol.

hmmm actually ill throw in a question, when people run away a lot cause you're peach duh... dash attack and a few other things are good to get a hit in but i find it hard to follow especially when they're running away so they are di'in away after the hit too. any tips?

 

[otg]

Hey CanIsmash?

No.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

@CIS: you shouldn't be approaching too much with peach. you have a perfectly good projectile, and in the situations where you are approaching, turnip aerial usually does the trick


TLDR go watch some armada

 

[JFox]

turnips aren't the be all end all. In fact they kinda suck vs the fast fallers. i approach a lot, cuz most people camp me. either i go in with turnips or i space my attacks and try to predict retreat patterns.

 

[blast_ssbb]

i finally played some matches vs friends of mines yesterday wit peach! she's sooooo different from like fox/falco/ anybody really. its actually really fun.

getting camped is gay i missed my lasers though .

thnx everyone for all the help. hope to use peach in teams soon :D

 

[Cia]

vanz i watched a random match from you and i noticed instead of nair shield pressure, you did a FC uair on the ground and then followed up after it hit the shield, i've done that before just to change it up because people are normally like wtf if an uair hits their shield

Yeah, I really like doing this because most people are just so taken by it. I use it to bait rolls and things like that. and the shield stun it gives isn't much different than the Nair's so switching between the two won't hurt.

Dear VaNz,

I'm not going to Pound 4. So I guess we can't do our 200.00 money match.

Sincerely,

Your Neighborhood Shinobi

Edit: If you ever come to Cali, PM me. ^_^ We can gamble then.

=[ maybe you will change your mind in the months to come.

i finally played some matches vs friends of mines yesterday wit peach! she's sooooo different from like fox/falco/ anybody really. its actually really fun.

getting camped is gay i missed my lasers though .

thnx everyone for all the help. hope to use peach in teams soon :D

I'm glad you like peach. she's pretty cool lol. you WILL be camped tho. but i've gotten sooo good against camp that i've come to rely on my opponent camping. and i do better against camp than aggression. it's weird lol. but you have to learn to put yourself where you think your opponent will be. and ****.

 

[blast_ssbb]

haha vanz i planned on maining peach back when i first learned wat advanced techs were cuz my friend mained game n watch and the rest of us mained fox, falco and captain so i was trying to teach him so basic **** wit peach and i really liked her.... but then every time i picked her all my friends would groan and tell me to change so i never got into her. imagine a bunch of ppl that dont know wat DI is and crouch cancel to not get sent far playing vs peach..... i think u can visualize how much they hated it.

 

[The Irish Mafia]

turnips aren't the be all end all. In fact they kinda suck vs the fast fallers. i approach a lot, cuz most people camp me. either i go in with turnips or i space my attacks and try to predict retreat patterns.

Yeah, as an aggro peach, I know better than most that turnips won't help 100 percent of the time. It's just what I've found to have the highest success rate.

@vans about the Uair thing:
I think wife did that in ROM crews lol
I tried it out but forgot about it after a while

 

[Kouryuu]

Vanz..

I started to read some of the advice you gave for a couple of match ups and I realized that.. you really need to work on actually giving advice. You do well in pointing out strengths/weaknesses Peach has in the match ups but you don't do a good job in giving viable strategies on how she can work around it. I didn't read through all of the sections, just a few but I noticed this in the few sections that I read.

Also, you really need to work on the Fox match-up section. You didn't say much in that section at all. =\

Just my two cents.

 

[soranaka]

kamaster is really good against peaches too.

 

[soap]

they really need an african american peach option

 

[Mike G]

they really need an african american peach option

I lol'd


<3 VaNz

 

[JFox]

I'd like to name some pointers on fighting Luigi. First of all stages- I disagree with vanz 100%, I think DL is your best stage vs Luigi simply because you outlive luigi very easily here. All of the space peach has makes it very hard for luigi to pressure you into a strong hit, so its not very easy to kill off peach if u know how to avoid big hits. Peach on the other hand kills Luigi really easily if you know how to properly edgeguard.

To edgeguard luigi- Luigi's forward B is completely thwarted by bair. Just line up with him while he charges that forward b and get ready to swing those hips at him. Bair outprioritizes his attack so you wont trade, you will just hit him back out. If he doesnt charge forward b, and is smart and just uses little forward b's (while saving his jump), things get a little trickier. You can either try to interrupt his forward b's by timing a bair during the lag of his forward b, or you can trade with his move. To trade, jump to that side platform for height. Than full jump off the edge with your back facing luigi. Use your double jump and float to get out there and hit him with bair. If he double jumps, you double jump. If he tries to attack your bair, he will most likely trade with you, killing himself. If he does make it to ledge, he's gonna try to sweetspot up b, so bair the ledge and he will be forced into a wall tech position. From there it shouldnt be hard.

So that sounds way trickier than it is. Peach ***** luigi's recovery, you can ask pakman, he ***** me on yoshi's and gets ***** on DL.

Other pointers vs Luigi-

Use trades wisely! This goes for almost all floaty matchups vs peach. Know that you can absorb weak arial hits, and than hit them back with a quick nair. (Watch how armada always returns volleys with Mango's Jiggs when armada is at low percent) Know that bair trades with almost everything, so if he is at high percent and you can afford to take a hit, you should lead with bairs. On the other hand, careful not to trade at high percents for you, cuz that trade will often cost a stock. Dont try to protect yourself with moves cuz you will often just trade and die.

Generally you want to be- Aggro when peach is at low percent because peach at low percents is amazing. Than when peach gets to higher percents you wanna start playin campy and careful not to let them get in any big hits. Luigi doesnt have any solid approaches, so dont be afraid to camp it up.

Lets see, some other tips- Luigi is one of the taller characters, so I find that the best thing to do is put yourself in float right above his head. Because luigi's shield pushes him backwards, you can actually bair the top of luigi's head without getting punished by aerials. You just set your butt up so that the bottom of it hits luigi in the forehead. If he shields you have enough time to get away safely from any aerial he can throw out because the bair slightly pushes him from peach, meanwhile you are floating away from him as soon as the bair hits his shield. So basically is a safe attack that cant really be punished.

Lastly- Dont dash attack luigi much, if he shields any dash attack he will Up b out of shield and hit you with teh fire, aka shroyuken. Oh and when he dthrows always DI behind him no matter what.


...why do i know so much about luigi lol

 

[Pakman]

*namesearches

Listen to JFOX. He edgeguards me better than any peach I have played.

 

[MacD]

one thing i've always thought of was instead of bairing the luigi because he'll DI and you have to repeat and hope he doesn't missfire, is that you can float out and just take the hit from his side b

you take damage but depending on how far out you do it, i don't think he can come back unless he misfires and you'll just double jump and up b to safety

i've just htought of this when it happened once while i was playing against a luigi, but it's not like CA has any so i don't get to practice

i mean obviously just bairing is good, it's how i've always done it, but i think my idea could save a lot of time and just makes it certain, but idk, it's just an idea, actually the only stage i've considered doing this on is like dk 64 or dreamland where it's really big

 

[Pakman]

one thing i've always thought of was instead of bairing the luigi because he'll DI and you have to repeat and hope he doesn't missfire, is that you can float out and just take the hit from his side b

you take damage but depending on how far out you do it, i don't think he can come back unless he misfires and you'll just double jump and up b to safety

i've just htought of this when it happened once while i was playing against a luigi, but it's not like CA has any so i don't get to practice

i mean obviously just bairing is good, it's how i've always done it, but i think my idea could save a lot of time and just makes it certain, but idk, it's just an idea

Once you use your float Luigi can just aim under you. In general, against peach you are hit high off the stage so Luigi has a lot of leeway charging the forward b. I personally wait for the float and forward b around it.

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Vanz help.

Ganon's favor
Battle field
Dreamland
Rainbow cruise
Peach's favor
Fountain of dreams
Toss up
Mute city
Final destination

My level favorites for the match up looks nothing like yours. We will stay arguing MC all day but the rest what do you suggest? I saw you didn't like FoD as Peach which surprised me since low platforms and a stage you can side b recover on sounded ideal for Peach. Let me know what you think. Anyone else is welcome to share their two cents.

 

[JFox]

quick FYI- side b recovery doesnt work on the bottom of FoD

 

[PaperstSoapCo]

Not at all? That's lame.

 

[Cia]

Jfox - you list a lot of good points. but they don't all support why you disagree with my post 100% Anyway, I still have to update Luigi and Samus, but i've been busy as ever and i thought i'd have more time =/ Anyway, I'll try my hardest to do a huge update tonight.

Tipman - I'll address your post when i get back, but the cab is literally downstairs.. lol

Kouryuu - i guess i could give more info about the Peach v. Fox match up. But i thought i gave a lot. I can't tell you exactly what to do because everyone has their own play style. But i do list some key techniques that you should work into your strategy.

BBL

(p.s. i've never seen the peach boards this.. motivated. <3)

 

[JFox]

no i meant i disagree with you saying DL is a luigi stage. I also think that going aggro at all times vs luigi is a mistake, but that might just be a difference in our styles of play. I personally go for safe moves vs luigi cuz he is just too strong to eff around with (like you said, dont bother tryin to combo him much) and than once hes off i keep him off.

 

[Samochan]

I know luigi matchup somewhat, so hope ya guys don't mind if I type my musings from this matchup.

Okay so, luigi does not like to get turnipsed obv cause he lacks a good and adaptable projectile, but better be careful with it due to his long wavedash and fast aerials. Dair is something luigi won't like much when done above his head, so you avoid his smashes and tilts barring upsmash and uptilt. Fair is excellet spacing tool, he lacks neccesary grab range and you can pressure his shield nicely. be aware though that dsmahs will push him away from stun early and thus easy wd out of shield to things for him. Needless to say, use it with caution and sparingly.

Low floathed quick aerials tend to stop luigi like he hit into a brick wall with his wd, so they can work well as defensive maneuvers. Luigi is so floathy a simple OoS tricks can wreck his approach, especially if he prefers to doubleaerial things. For combos, dtilt to uair works nicely and luigi won't get past that upsmash after you've done your upward sending moves. Fair with turnip in hand -> turnip throw -> aerial should be feasible combo as well at lower%. In general, if you wanna combo luigi at all, you need to use higher hitstun moves, predict and space really well so you won't get hit by nairs and things. Parasol can add some extra damage there and there. For edgeguard, everything goes basically. Snipe him with turnips from afar (watch out for missfire), time em so that they hit him after his forward b hitbox is gone so he doesn't block em, then go and deal a float cancel off stage to ko him. Dair is generally safe method of edgeguard, nair can go trough missfire (lol) and drop down bair is deadly cause he can't get up much anymore after you can go and drop down bair him.

For luigi's combos, they love to weave in and out of range and grab you into dthrow dair/fair. Better di that throw (can't recall which direction gave most leeway atm, sorry), cause you don't wanna get hit by those attacks. Sometimes you can manage to sneak in a nair or spaced bair/fair from float or trade hits. Watch out for jab -> firepunch combos lol, and other kinds of jab into dsmash and things combos. For recovery, sweetspot walltech should be a good option if you come from below, watch out for edgehog though. From above, aerial dodging behind luigi should be fairly safe way to avoid his fair/dair and his bair is not strong enough to ko. Generaly stay well away from his range and recover either high so he can't reach and avoid that uair or go below and tech.

 

[ArcNatural]

I know luigi

he lacks projectile

MMMMMMM Taken out of context but still win.

Good advice though Samo I just saw this as funny (we know Luigi's projectile sucks).

 

[Samochan]

MMMMMMM Taken out of context but still win.

Good advice though Samo I just saw this as funny (we know Luigi's projectile sucks).

Well uhm, I just got a brain fart there. But his projectile sucks anyway so he won't use it much, so it feels like he doesn't even have one.

 

[soranaka]

when fox is recovering from below the stage, how do you bair edgeguard without trading?

 

[Samochan]

when fox is recovering from below the stage, how do you bair edgeguard without trading?

You need to hit with the first 3 frames of opening hitbox on bair (starts on frame 6) so that the hitbox is at it's biggest. Then you need to space it, so you hit with the edge of the hitbox.