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Official v9.0.0 Patch Discussion

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shrooby

shrooby

Let me know when I'm supposed to laugh, okay?
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This wait felt much less agonizing than the wait between Byleth and Min Min.

Here is the Patch Notes thread:

https://smashboards.com/threads/v9-0-0-patch-notes.507839/

We will hand out large warnings and/or temporary bans to those who stifle this process of patch exploration
Some examples include
1. Posting false changes, good intentions or not.
2. Asking if anything has changed when the patch notes are there for you to read.
3. Immature behavior and complaining over the patch changes.

When checking changes, remember that Ultimate has many different damage multipliers.
  • Percent values taken from proper matches (non-training mode) have scaling adjustments based on it's current freshness; a 1% difference seen in a match may not be a real patch change and should be double checked before being posted.
  • For aerials remember that aerials performed during a short hop have a x0.85 damage multiplier.
  • Moves deal more damage (x1.2) in 1v1s matches than in matches with more than two players. This multiplier also applies to Training Mode.
~~~~~~~~~

What Nintendo's official patch notes terms mean:
  • "Attack speed" - Startup
  • "Power" / "Attack power" - Damage
  • "Attack range" - Hitbox size
  • "Launch distance" - Base knockback (BKB) and/or Knockback growth (KBG)*
  • "Launch angle" - Knockback angle
  • "Undamaged launch distance" - Base knockback (BKB)
  • "Vulnerability" - Endlag / First active frame (FAF)
  • "Vulnerability when Landing" - Landing lag
  • "Landing time" - Aerial auto-cancel window
  • "Time until launched opponents can move" - Hitstun
  • "Hitstun time" - Hitlag
  • "Hitstun Shuffle Distance" - SDI multiplier
  • "Super armor" - Damage-based armor or knockback-based armor
  • "invincibility" - invulnerability frames
  • "Hit detection" - Active frames
  • "Easier to hit multiple times" - Made hits of a multi-hit move link more reliably

*Nintendo does not always specify if both BKB and KBG have been changed or just one of them when using the term "launch distance."
 
Zapp Branniglenn

Zapp Branniglenn

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All damage values are base damage.

:ultness:
  • Dash attack third hit damage 4.0 -> 6.0
  • U-tilt strong hit damage 7.0 -> 9.0
    • weak hit damage 5.0 -> 7.0
  • D-air startup 20 -> 18
    • Total frames 54 -> 52
    • Autocancel window now frames 1-17 and 39 onward (used to be 1-19 and 41 onward)
  • Neutral B startup 44-121 -> 40-117 (in other words, 4 frames shaved off the startup at all levels of charge)
    • Total frames 65-142 -> 61-138
  • U-Throw damage 10.0 ->12.0
:ultwario:
  • Up B Multihit damage 1.0 -> 1.2. Total damage 13.0 -> 13.9 (there seems to be some weird variation on the damage dealt by those hits and I don't know why or if it was ever the case pre-patch. It's only enough variance that it'll make the total damage somewhere between 13.8 and 14.0, but still, very strange. 13.9 seems to be the most consistent.
:ultsonic:
  • Dash Attack total frames 49 -> 45
  • U-tilt total frames 39 -> 35
  • U-Smash startup 18/21/23/25/27/29/31/33-> 14/17/19/21/23/25/27/29
    • Invulnerable frames adjusted 18-20 -> 14-18 (in summary, two I-frames were added, and they begin 4 frames sooner.
    • total frames 65 -> 61
    • Charge hold frame 13 -> 9
:ultlucario:
  • Jab 1 startup 7 -> 5
    • total frames 26 -> 24
  • D-Smash startup 19 -> 16
    • total frames 54 -> 51
  • Up-B special fall landing lag 40 -> 35
  • Maximum aura damage examples (in training mode. All of Lucario's max aura damage values have damage in the hundredths, so my testing can only be accurate within 0.1 base damage) I don't intend to get every damage value, there's just so many, this is just to give an idea of the increase. Lucario still reaches max aura at the same damage threshold (190%)
    • Jab 1 4.0 -> 4.1
    • Jab 2 3.2 -> 3.3
    • Jab 3 4.8 -> 5.0
    • F-tilt 6.4/9.6 -> 6.6/10.0
    • U-tilt 8.0/9.6-> 8.3/10.0 (close/far hits)
    • D-tilt 8.0 -> 8.3
    • F-Smash 25.6/20.8 -> 26.7/21.7 (close/far hits)
    • N-air 12.8/9.6 -> 13.3/10.0 (first/second hits)
    • F-air 9.6 -> 10.0
    • Neutral B full charge 27.6 -> 28.8
    • Side B wave 19.0 -> 19.8
    • Down B counterattack 20.0 -> 20.8
:ultbowserjr:
  • D-smash startup 15 -> 12
    • total frames 59 -> 56
  • ledge attack damage 9.0 -> 10.0
  • Up B startup 21/56 -> 17/47
  • Side B armor damage threshold ? -> 10.0 (note that the threshold only cares about an attack's base damage, and not at all to attacks that connect with Bowser jr's exposed body) (also I'm sorry but I don't have the pre-patch threshold.)
:ultsimon:/:ultrichter:
  • Dash attack damage 1.7/3.5 -> 2.0/3.5 (multihit/final hit)
    • total damage 12.0 -> 13.5
  • U-Smash startup 18 -> 16
    • total frames 55 -> 53
 
Last edited:
Thinkaman

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Zapp Branniglenn said:
:ultwario:
  • Up B Multihit damage 1.0 -> 1.2. Total damage 13.0 -> 13.9 (there seems to be some weird variation on the damage dealt by those hits and I don't know why or if it was ever the case pre-patch. It's only enough variance that it'll make the total damage somewhere between 13.8 and 14.0, but still, very strange. 13.9 seems to be the most consistent.
Click to expand...
Wario up-b had 5 hitboxes ranging from 1.0 to 1.5 damage. Now it has 4, with the smallest 1.0 damage hitbox removed, while the other (1.2/1.3/1.4/1.5) had their base knockback increased from 110 to 130 and their angles adjusted.

This isn't a damage buff as much as a case where the consistency upgrades removed a problem hitbox with a unique damage value.

Zapp Branniglenn said:
:ultbowserjr:
  • Side B armor damage threshold ? -> 10.0 (note that the threshold only cares about an attack's base damage, and not at all to attacks that connect with Bowser jr's exposed body) (also I'm sorry but I don't have the pre-patch threshold.)
Click to expand...
I believe it was 8.

Bowser Jr. f-tilt BKB 55 -> 72.
Bowser Jr. u-smash had looping hitbox angle/BKB adjustments and are bigger; final hitbox is bigger too.
Bowser Jr. f-throw KBG 70 -> 92.

Falcon u-smash had two starting hitboxes swapped in priority and given less knockback.

Charizard has a simple angle adjustment on side-b initial hit, and a reshuffling of priority, angles, and lowered knockback on looping up-b hits.

DK has an additional ground-target hitbox on grounded side-b. It is smaller and vertically disjointed, while hitting the exact same as the main hitbox.

Popo dash attack hitlag 1.0x -> 1.2x.
ICs d-smash BKB 45 -> 50.
Popo (and Nana?) side-b can grab ledges on frame 61/63 -> 55/57.

Lucario max multiplier 1.60 -> 1.67.
Lucario f-tilt primary initial hitbox adjusted. (Angle 8- -> 361, fixed knockback 20 -> 25)
Lucario side-b projectile KBG 48 -> 58, BKB 45 -> 48.

Ness dash attack damage 4.0 -> 6.0, KBG 133 -> 113 (effective 532 -> 678), BKB 80 -> 85.
Ness u-tilt main hit damage 7.0 -> 9.0, KBG 140 -> 113 (effective 980 -> 1017), BKB 42 -> 46.
Ness u-tilt main hit damage 5.0 -> 7.0, KBG 140 -> 113 (effective 700 -> 791), BKB 42 -> 46.

Shulk u-smash 3 frames of hitstun added to biggest initial hitbox.
Shulk d-smash intiial hit KBG 80 -> 90.
Shulk down-b KBG 70 -> 80.

Simon dash final hit KBG 115 -> 105, BKB 70 -> 80. (Looping hits also do 1.7 -> 2.0 damage as reported)
Simon u-tilt high hitboxes (10.0 damage) KBG 75 -> 57, BKB 60 -> 80.
Simon u-tilt low hitbox (2.0 damage) KBG 100 -> 82, BKB 60 -> 88.
Simon u-smash tip (16.0 damage) KBG 88 -> 91, BKB 61 -> 64.
Simon u-smash normal (14.0 damage) KBG 82 -> 85, BKB 60 -> 63.
Simon d-smash hit 1 (all) KBG 77 -> 82.
Simon d-smash hit 2 (all) KBG 82 -> 87.
Simon up-b hits slightly more vertically disjointed.

Sonic dash attack initial damage 6.0 -> 8.0, KBG 80 -> 63 (effective 480 -> 504), BKB 88 -> 91. (Multiplier added so that Shieldstun is unchanged.)
Sonic dash attack late damage 4.0 -> 6.0, KBG 80 -> 60 (effective 320 -> 360), BKB 93 -> 96. (Multiplier changed so that Shieldstun is unchanged.)
Sonic u-smash secondary looping hitbox hits stronger and more inward.
Sonic uair hit 2 has a new 4th hitbox added, small and otherwise identical to the others but covering a slightly new location.
 
Zapp Branniglenn

Zapp Branniglenn

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Regarding today's update with the sephiroth boss mode, can somebody tell me if this is also THE balance update? I supposed the quickest way to check is to see if old replays are still accessible

Edit: According to this page where we usually locate Nintendo's notes, there are no balance changes. Though I'd like to stay unpatched for a while in case something turns up or needs to be checked.
 
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shrooby

shrooby

Let me know when I'm supposed to laugh, okay?
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Just so nobody is confused/tags me or anything; I won't be doing the usual patch notes stuff tomorrow.
 
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