Official v2.0.0 Patch Discussion Thread

[Semako]

Yes, you don't have to wait the full 30 seconds when rematching in Quickplay,

 

[CarbVan]

Dedede's gordo can still double hit, results from testing show there's barely any difference between the old gordo and new gordo. Spikes still have a hitbox so if it was really nerfed, it must have been nerfed by literal pixels, if that makes sense.

 

[Rayman001]

On the patch notes it says for Cloud "Down special knockback increased", but according to the patch notes, the range was increased and not the knockback?

Edit: Also it doesn't mention the the hitbox changes for Inkling's side B.

It's also missing the new armor for Kirby's stone

 

[GP2]

Do we know if the collision glitch was fixed?

 

[Luigifan18]

Do we know if the collision glitch was fixed?

What collision glitch are you asking about?

 

[GP2]

What collision glitch are you asking about?

The issue where the freeze frame caused by a finishing blow causes characters to fall through the stage

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Oh boy, K.Rool got it rough this patch.


Please buff him in the next one.

 

[Thinkaman]

Oh boy, K.Rool got it rough this patch.

K. Rool only got a slap on the wrist to neutral-b vacuum hold, a move only relevant at low-level play. He got a trivial tweak to his up-b hitbox that doesn't seem to actually affect much of anything. Finally, his down-throw bury is shorter at low percents and higher at high percents, making it function more consistently in high-level play.

Please do not spread misinformation and fearmongering like this.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

K. Rool only got a slap on the wrist to neutral-b vacuum hold, a move only relevant at low-level play. He got a trivial tweak to his up-b hitbox that doesn't seem to actually affect much of anything. Finally, his down-throw bury is shorter at low percents and higher at high percents, making it function more consistently in high-level play.

Please do not spread misinformation and fearmongering like this.

1: They halved the vacuum's hold time, which takes away some valuable control and pressure away from the move: Video 1
Which doesn't help by the fact that you have to shoot a cannonball first to even use that phase of the move.

2: The smaller hitbox on Up-B is literally the difference between beating, trading or losing to attacks that can edge-guard you: Video 2
Which matters a lot since you're survivability is heavily weaken.

3: The bury duration when mashing is incidental at higher percents from before: Video 3
So the higher duration doesn't come into effect until percents when Up-Throw starts flat out killing.

4: Many other character were buffed doesn't help K. Rool.


It takes more then just asking for buffs to spread fearmongering.

Thanks for the video proof ESAM.

 

[KakuCP9]

Can anyone explain the change to Lucario's aura sphere because it's affecting his combo game off ASC in a bad way and why they did it makes no sense.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

So the changes to in the notes was not really accurate. Basically the move feels slighty quicker due to the hitlag on it is reduced . Yes theopponent can react quicker after the last hit of it, but so can Palu herself l so its still the same move. You just have to be quicker to to the same chains like here.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

In fact once i got used to it. I dare say the move might actullay be..better? I think it may be easier to juggle certain characters now

 

[Lavani]

Can anyone explain the change to Lucario's aura sphere because it's affecting his combo game off ASC in a bad way and why they did it makes no sense.

If you mean mechanically, reduced hitlag doesn't affect the performance of direct attacks as both characters are frozen for the same amount of time; it's just done for flavor. With projectiles, the user isn't the one hitting the opponent and thus doesn't freeze, so that hitlag turns into frame advantage, and tends to make up a good chunk of it on low damage projectile hits. ASC should've had 6~7 frames of hitlag prepatch, which could mean anything from -1-7 less frame advantage on hit postpatch. The good news is there's still enough hitstun to actually confirm off of with usmash/bair, but the timing's a lot more precise.

If you mean "Why would they do this?!", then...I guess after years of this being a core aspect of Lucario's gameplan they just now decided it was too good? Though since as a change it only makes the confirms more precise/inconsistent rather than actually killing off the gameplan, it feels like all it accomplishes is making playing the character more annoying.

So the changes to in the notes was not really accurate. Basically the move feels slighty quicker due to the hitlag on it is reduced . Yes theopponent can react quicker after the last hit of it, but so can Palu herself l so its still the same move. You just have to be quicker to to the same chains like here.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

In fact once i got used to it. I dare say the move might actullay be..better? I think it may be easier to juggle certain characters now

This is what I and several others were trying to tell you before. It's also already been reported that way in the patch thread here:

I can't really blame you for being confused though, the word choice used in the english notes is...not very clear.

How the terminology should be interpreted:

What Nintendo says | What it actually means
Shortened hitstun | Shortened hitlag
Reduced vulnerability. | Reduced endlag
Reduced vulnerability when landing. | Reduced landing lag
Shortened the landing time after using the move. | Buffed autocancel window
Reduced the attack range | Reduced hitbox size
Extended the high-damage window and reduced the low-damage window. | Higher active frames for strong hit, lower active frames for late hit
Increased power. | Increased damage

Also shrooby the English notes for fsmash are...strange, but the Japanese ones have a much clearer "Reduced knockback on second hit at close range" (2段目の攻撃が近い距離で当たったとき、ふっとぶ距離を縮めました。), suggesting it now has a pointblank sourspot.

 

[Ffamran]

Is there a separate page from Nintendo detailing bug fixes and such? I figured for character specific bugs that they might be on the fighters adjustment page since as far as this person has checked, Lucina can dash grab a shielding ROB which is not mentioned at all for her as she isn't on the list and the only thing for ROB is the Side Special change. If she can, then Chrom, Marth, and Roy probably can too since they couldn't before.

シールド展開中のロボットを掴めるようになりました pic.twitter.com/IpmGcEy1Kp

— クロマキバレット🍗 (@kiba_ssbm) January 30, 2019

Okay, building off of this, Meshima found out the exact change to ROB that fixed this.

ROB's "jostle_front" value was reduced to 0.1 from 1.4.
This param is used for character's pushback on ground and this change allows him to be grabbed from FE characters while shielding.

— Meshima (@Meshima_) January 30, 2019

There's also this.

Peach/Daisy's "scroll_rate" got reduced to 0.3 from 0.5
I believe we don't know what scroll_rate is.

Ganondorf's unknown param got changed to 0x1 from 0x1E.
They changed this same param in 1.2.0 for DK, Kirby and Greninja but we don't know what this param is.

— Meshima (@Meshima_) January 30, 2019

And on the topic of Palutena's Nair, the hitlag multiplier on its loop hits was decreased from 1.0 to 0.5 and on its final hit, from 2.0 to 1.5: https://twitter.com/KuroganeHammer/status/1090489995222081537. Kuro has posted about other exact changes on his Twitter as well.

 

[Ziodyne 21]

Okay, building off of this, Meshima found out the exact change to ROB that fixed this.

ROB's "jostle_front" value was reduced to 0.1 from 1.4.
This param is used for character's pushback on ground and this change allows him to be grabbed from FE characters while shielding.

— Meshima (@Meshima_) January 30, 2019

There's also this.

Peach/Daisy's "scroll_rate" got reduced to 0.3 from 0.5
I believe we don't know what scroll_rate is.

Ganondorf's unknown param got changed to 0x1 from 0x1E.
They changed this same param in 1.2.0 for DK, Kirby and Greninja but we don't know what this param is.

— Meshima (@Meshima_) January 30, 2019

And on the topic of Palutena's Nair, the hitlag multiplier on its loop hits was decreased from 1.0 to 0.5 and on its final hit, from 2.0 to 1.5: https://twitter.com/KuroganeHammer/status/1090489995222081537. Kuro has posted about other exact changes on his Twitter as well.

So the "hitsun reduction notes) for n-air and throws amounted to small buffs. Palu's n-air can be harder to SDI now due to incrased speed and lower hitlag, and the electric rats get quicker pummels in thier grabs...lol

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Yes they are buffs.

 

[TKD]

I could be a frame off but I think the Sheik fspecial change was going from IASA at 79 to IASA at 77. Not impactful at all; either the devs didn't consider how long the move is and failed to make a proportionate change, or it was meant for a very, very specific situation (like Toon Link's fair autocancel being lowered just enough to activate on buffered, non-fastfall). Like, a peak full hop activation ending in time to grab ledge or something similar.

 

[BJN39]

Came here to mention a little change: recently it was mentioned that zelda’s dress seemed ‘stiffer’ during certain moves and I discovered the there were some physics edits in 2.0.0 that prevent Zelda’s dress from flipping up to her waist during certain aerial actions (the biggest offenders being Din’s and phantom) there was certain fast fall or backward fall occasions that would cause her dress to billow up and accidentally show her legs all the way up to her waist. These situations cannot he replicated in 2.0.0 and her dress stays mostly static for din’s and phantom while airborne now. A couple other moves have very slight dress placement tweaks as well.

 

[VodkaHaze]

What I don't get is why some characters that are considered top tier like Snake and Pikachu get a buff yet Lucario and Dedede get nerfed? Were Lucario and Dedede players that big of a threat on Elite Smash, whereas Snake and Pikachu players are terrible online?

 

[Yikarur]

shrooby
Can you please use base damage in the patchnotes?

 

[Lukingordex]

Surprised no one mentioned it yet, but, previously, yoshi's grab release and throws didn't grant temporary grab invincibility like every other character in the game, allowing things like infinitely grabbing a character with 2 Yoshis in a doubles match, for example. This is now fixed.

 

[BigLord]

I know he has been listed as having no changes, but the Mii Swordfighter Discord has been getting a fair amount of reports, lately, stating that upB 3, Hero's Spin, doesn't connect properly anymore. It's not that it KOs later, the opponent simply falls out of the move in the middle of it. Gale spin (tornado, neutral B 1) or no gale spin.

I wanted to be sure about no changes to Mii Swordfighter so I came here to ask: are we positively sure that there are no changes whatsoever to his data? Because placebo on such a wide scale (and a fellow moderator of mine even labbed it out a little) would be very strange.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Surprised no one mentioned it yet, but, previously, yoshi's grab release and throws didn't grant temporary grab invincibility like every other character in the game, allowing things like infinitely grabbing a character with 2 Yoshis in a doubles match, for example. This is now fixed.

damn, sad this was fixed. I wanted to cheese 2v1 brawl style.

 

[Tizio Random]

Another unlisted change: they gave back RAR bair to Rosa, it's not as wild as Smash 4 but still very good

Spoiler: Comparison in 2.0.0

This is how it was(n't) in 1.2.1:

 

[KakuCP9]

Another question. Do Peach and Daisy's short hop float aerials still bypass the x0.8 short hop multiplier?

 

[DavemanCozy]

Pretty crazy that they let us press two jump buttons to short hop now. That's gonna make delayed short hop aerials much easier to execute for several characters.

 

[Luigifan18]

I just answered a question about potentially unfair Z-axis shenanigans (mainly in regard to stages that remove the Z-axis), and I immediately thought of the glitch that causes Ridley's Space Pirate Rush to instantly KO Sonic if released the right way on Flat Zone, Duck Hunt, etc..

Has that glitch been fixed in the 2.0.0 patch? If not, picking Sonic against Ridley is a recipe for disaster wailing and grinding of teeth on Z-axis-less stages.

 

[shrooby]

shrooby
Can you please use base damage in the patchnotes?

You mean without factoring in the 1v1 multiplier, right? The other staff and I thought that it made sense to save the step of factoring in the 1v1 multiplier since competitive players are the target audience of the thread.
Though I suppose having both would be the best option for maximum convenience.

Another question. Do Peach and Daisy's short hop float aerials still bypass the x0.8 short hop multiplier?

Yes

 

[Vipermoon]

You mean without factoring in the 1v1 multiplier, right? The other staff and I thought that it made sense to save the step of factoring in the 1v1 multiplier since competitive players are the target audience of the thread.
Though I suppose having both would be the best option for maximum convenience.

I don't think it's about competitive. Most of these base damage values are the same as Smash 4 or even earlier, we're used to them. Moreover, the base values are usually rounded numbers and so are their buffs and nerfs. But if you were to do it, it would be for the next patch (too much work to go edit this one LOL).

 

[UltraJake]

In the patch notes thread I notice it states that Lylat Cruise's ledges were fixed, but is that really true? Elsewhere I've heard that no changes to the map were detected which would mean they tweaked character's recoveries instead right?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

In the patch notes thread I notice it states that Lylat Cruise's ledges were fixed, but is that really true? Elsewhere I've heard that no changes to the map were detected which would mean they tweaked character's recoveries instead right?

Lylat is unchanged.

 

[Nobie]

According to Meshima on Twitter, the patch basically doubled the range of Mewtwo's ledge grab during Teleport.

Mewtwo ledge grab range during UpB
(X1, Y1, X2, Y2) = (8.4, 11.2, -5.04, 4) -> (16, 27.5, -11, 8.5)

Rosalina ledge grab range
During UpB travelling
(17, 27.5, -8, 13) -> (17, 30.5, -14, 13)
During UpB ending
(17, 27.5, -8, 13) -> (17, 30.5, -11, 13)

— Meshima (@Meshima_) January 31, 2019

So basically Mewtwo got normalized: now it has a normal (better) ledge snap and a normal (worse) dash attack.

 

[Masonomace]

I'm sure the OP would like these values. I labbed them myself once 2.0.0 dropped so. Here's all the ledgegrab windows that were listed by Nintendo & thus labbed by me:

 

[lordvaati]

Pretty crazy that they let us press two jump buttons to short hop now. That's gonna make delayed short hop aerials much easier to execute for several characters.

X+Y= Short hop
B+A= Smash attack
A+Jump= Short hop attack
B+Jump=?????

 

[MG_3989]

Pretty crazy that they let us press two jump buttons to short hop now. That's gonna make delayed short hop aerials much easier to execute for several characters.

I just don’t understand why they don’t make a short hop command you can map to a button

 

[MasterZaden]

Does anyone have a way of testing Metered Final Smashes in Training Mode?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Okay, I finished counting numbers between patches. shrooby Here are some clarifications for the Patch notes. All damage is with 1v1 multipliers on. And when I say FAF I do mean total frames plus one.

Spoiler

• U-air autocancels on frame 43 onward from 47.
• Arrows travel for 46 frames before disappearing. Used to be 40.
• Arrows stick into the ground for exactly 3 seconds before disappearing. This has not changed between patches.

Bomb FAF on the ground is now 48 from 54. It is still 49 in the air
Can now grab ledges on frame 68 of F-air animation from 71.

• Dash attack damage is now 14.4/10.8/7.2 from 12.0/8.4/6.0
• F-tilt's numbers are correct, just please change the word "endlag" to FAF. Those don't mean the same thing.
• Stone armor begins on frame 19 in the air. Used to begin on 29. Grounded version still has armor beginning on 11.

Pummel hitlag is now 12 from 14.
Landing lag for Green missile is 39 from 41. On hit endlag is still 32, and I couldn't find any other aspect of the move that had changed.
U-air autocancels on frame 34 from 38.

• F-tilt FAF now 25 from 28.
• B-air startup now 10 from 12. FAF now 38 from 40.

• Can grab ledge on frame 59 of F-air animation from 88.
• U-air autocancels on frame 44 onward from 47.
• Burst grenade endlag is reduced by 2 frames.

Pummel is now 14 hitlag from 15

• F-air autocancels on frame 45 onward from 55.
• Can grab ledges on frame 58 of U-air animation from 63.

D-air autocancels on frame 50 onward from 53.

• Can grab ledges on frame 71 of F-air animation from 73.
• Can grab ledges on frame 59 of U-air animation from 75

Can grab ledges on frame 72 of D-air animation from 76
Early hitbox now lasts until frame 8 from 7.
Dash attack damage now 15.6/12.0 from 13.2/9.6
N-air autocancels on frame 27 onward from 50.
Can grab ledges on frame 69 of N-air animation from 73.

• B-air landing lag now 15 from 18.
• F-air multihit deals 4 frames of hitlag from 6. Final hit unchanged at 11.

Can grab ledges on frame 52 of F-air animation from 64.

• F-air autocancels on frame 39 onward from 51.
• Can grab ledges on frame 60 of B-air animation from 68.

• Can grab ledges on frame 68 of N-air animation from 69.
• Luma N-air startup now 7/13 from 8/13
• Can grab ledges on frame 84 of F-air animation from ??? I neglected to get pre-patch number.
• The old hitbox on frame 17 of Rosa D-air is removed, now the attack only meteors.
• Luma Shot endlag reduced by 5 at any charge.
• Luma Recall FAF now 22 from 26.

• Can grab ledges on frame 40 of N-air animation from 46.
• Can grab ledges on frame 66 of U-air animation from 73.

• Usmash late hit now begins on frame 13 from 12.
• N-air landing lag now 6 from 8.
• B-air landing lag now 11 from 14.
• Neutral special 3 FAF is now 80/82 from 90/92. The second number is when reversed.
• Side Special 1 has no increase to its damage, it has always dealy 19.2.
• Up Special 1 will now grab ledges behind Brawler at the same ledge snap window as in the front (frame 15). In pre-patch, he could only grab ledges behind him after entering special fall when the move's animation had ended.

F-air autocancels on frame 44 onward from 49.
N-air multihit hitlag is now 3 from 6. Final hit now 13 from 15.

• Can grab ledges on frame 50 of F-air animation from 51.
• F-air autocancels on frame 26 onward from 43.
• D-air autocancels on frame 50 onward from 56.
• Bonus Fruit: Cherries no longer disappear immediately upon hitting an opponent. Cherry, Strawberry, Apple Orange, and Melon now last for 32 frames after hitting an opponent before disappearing. Used to be 30.

Elwind's double shot version now grabs ledges behind him on frame 39 from 52.

• F-air autocancels on frame 42 onward from 48.
• Can grab ledges on frame 66 of F-air animation from 71
• Can grab ledges on frame 79 of U-air animation from 80.

• Trick Shot FAF now 42 from 46.
• Clay Shooting FAF now 65 from 61.

F-air autocancels on frame 38 onward from 41.
N-air autocancels on frame 28 onward from ???. Neglected to get pre-patch number.
Can grab ledges on frame 78 of F-air animation. Cannot say for sure what pre-patch number was.

• N-air autocancels on frame 47 onward from 50.
• Can grab ledges on frame 60 from 62.
• U-air autocancels on frame 38 onward from 40.

Can grab ledges on frame 57 of N-air animation from 59.
Can grab ledges on frame 56 of N-air animation from 60.

• Can grab ledges on frame 64 of N-air animation from 65.
• Can grab ledges on frame 66 of F-air animation from 67

Can grab ledges on frame 58 of N-air animation from 60.

• Can grab ledges on frame 56 of U-air animation from 58
• D-air autocancels on frame 45 onward from 58.

Also I have to echo others in saying that I hope we don't use the 1v1 multiplier in future patch notes. The numbers are way more even in terms of base damage. It saves a step in calculation for anybody looking up the damage in the games code. And for manual testers it takes a second to turn off by pausing and setting CPUs to 2.

 

[Masonomace]

Okay, I finished counting numbers between patches. shrooby Here are some clarifications for the Patch notes. All damage is with 1v1 multipliers on. And when I say FAF I do mean total frames plus one.

Spoiler

• Can now grab ledges on frame 68 of F-air animation from 71.

• Can grab ledge on frame 59 of F-air animation from 88.

• Can grab ledges on frame 58 of U-air animation from 63.

• Can grab ledges on frame 71 of F-air animation from 73.
• Can grab ledges on frame 59 of U-air animation from 75

• Can grab ledges on frame 72 of D-air animation from 76

• Can grab ledges on frame 69 of N-air animation from 73.

• Can grab ledges on frame 52 of F-air animation from 64.

• Can grab ledges on frame 60 of B-air animation from 68.

• Can grab ledges on frame 68 of N-air animation from 69.
• ?

• Can grab ledges on frame 40 of N-air animation from 46.
• Can grab ledges on frame 66 of U-air animation from 73.

• Can grab ledges on frame 50 of F-air animation from 51.

• Can grab ledges on frame 66 of F-air animation from 71
• Can grab ledges on frame 79 of U-air animation from 80.

• Can grab ledges on frame 60 from 62.

• Can grab ledges on frame 57 of N-air animation from 59.

• Can grab ledges on frame 56 of N-air animation from 60.

• Can grab ledges on frame 64 of N-air animation from 65.
• Can grab ledges on frame 66 of F-air animation from 67

• Can grab ledges on frame 58 of N-air animation from 60.

• Can grab ledges on frame 56 of U-air animation from 58.

I'm super glad you got these numbers. Idk how or why I got 79> for Yoshi's FAir ledgegrab window, but I re-tested just minutes ago and got 68> as well. What were the values you got for FAir & FAir?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I'm super glad you got these numbers. Idk how or why I got 79> for Yoshi's FAir ledgegrab window, but I re-tested just minutes ago and got 68> as well. What were the values you got for FAir & FAir?

I neglected to get Rosalinas F-air before I patched my game. I just missed it I guess. Another one I missed was Ken's autocancel window, instead grabbing Ryus and not noticing the entry was for Ken in the Nintendo's patch notes. For Cloud I got 78, but for pre-patch I wrote down 71 and I have no idea whether that was a type or not of 81. Since a reduction of three frames sounds par for the course in this patch. So I cannot shed light on these three attacks.

 

[Masonomace]

Zapp Branniglenn Super thanks for your input. Since every single value I labbed is exactly identical to the findings you found, except Yoshi's being off due to whatever wack thing I was doing... We can safely say Rosa FAir is 84>.

 

[DavemanCozy]

X+Y= Short hop
B+A= Smash attack
A+Jump= Short hop attack
B+Jump=?????

Shortcut for tripping