Using Upthrow instead of Dthrow for Combos

[Darklink401]

So I recently learned that Samus upthrow combos into upair and fair at low to mid %s, often up to 50-60%

And with that, I did this

Now, I'm sure there's plenty of other uses that can be found for upthrow upair or upthrow fair (upthrow fair doing a whopping 21 damage, and upthrow upair up B doing 27-28%)

It's also much harder to DI upthrow than dthrow since upthrow sends them straight up.

Discuss. Is upthrow combos the future of Samus meta?

 

[zblaqk]

Hm! Wow I had no idea... this is... scary honestly. So do you have to time it so you hit with her toes then?

The timing is a bit more strict than downthrow but this seems interesting

 

[Iddis]

Interesting, I feel like some tests will have to be done on characters of heavier and lighter weight to see how viable it is, it's still huge though since it can 0 to death ZSS. Was the ZSS trying to escape after getting grabbed and thrown or were they just sitting there with no inputs?

 

[White_Pointer]

Is this actually a true combo? If you go into training mode does the combo counter keep going? I have a feeling they can jump out after the up throw, but I could be wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh god this is way too good. Definitely gonna try to use this as a mixup from down throw and see where it gets me.

 

[KayJay]

They must have changed the IASA frames from U-Throw, this didn't work in 1.0.0.

This really might be gamechanging, especially against ZSS because she can DI-escape D-Throw Setups very easily.

On Battlefield & Dreamland, 0% to Death is inescapable, the opponent can't DI or airdodge out of it if your input is frame perfect. Tested it with an auto-fire controller.

 

[DungeonMaster]

This definitely did NOT work when we were compiling the compendium. I recently tested very basic up-throw -> up-B on fastfallers to see if it registered on the counter and it still did at zero. I'm stuck in a mine (literally) for the next few days - does this actually register on the combo counter and what is the % range?

 

[Darklink401]

Hm! Wow I had no idea... this is... scary honestly. So do you have to time it so you hit with her toes then?

The timing is a bit more strict than downthrow but this seems interesting

At least it's hard to DI upthrow, since it sends you straight up :3

Interesting, I feel like some tests will have to be done on characters of heavier and lighter weight to see how viable it is, it's still huge though since it can 0 to death ZSS. Was the ZSS trying to escape after getting grabbed and thrown or were they just sitting there with no inputs?

Sitting there with no inputs but I also tried mashing airdodge and it didn't come out. I'm sure they could like, DI the upair away, but even then, after landing on the BF platform, the rest is easy XD

Is this actually a true combo? If you go into training mode does the combo counter keep going? I have a feeling they can jump out after the up throw, but I could be wrong.

True combo indeed, friend. I tried mashing airdodge.

They must have changed the IASA frames from U-Throw, this didn't work in 1.0.0.

This really might be gamechanging, especially against ZSS because she can DI-escape D-Throw Setups very easily.

On Battlefield & Dreamland, 0% to Death is inescapable, the opponent can't DI or airdodge out of it if your input is frame perfect. Tested it with an auto-fire controller.

I'd say it probably works on Duck Hunt as well if you do it near the tree, and land on the tree after the upthrow upair.

This definitely did NOT work when we were compiling the compendium. I recently tested very basic up-throw -> up-B on fastfallers to see if it registered on the counter and it still did at zero. I'm stuck in a mine (literally) for the next few days - does this actually register on the combo counter and what is the % range?

It's totally a combo. :3 The BF one registered when I did it in training mode as a 24-hit combo that did 40 damage.

% range for upthrow upair/fair is around 1-50, tho you might be able to get them at 60 or so as well.

 

[DungeonMaster]

When the @#$ did this happen? Have we been getting stealth buffs? I just looked through release notes, I see nothing has changed. We tested the crap out of this.
I feel like an idiot, more than anything, and maybe I should stop cursing the Sakurai quite so much....

Welp, have to redo my grab section for the video. So we have 2 combo throws. Thanks for finding this!

 

[Top Boss]

I didn't think up throw actually combo'd into stuff..
If this is actually a thing, then that's pretty cool.

 

[Metallinatus]

I love the Up Throw and used it a lot even when "it didn't combo".... just not on low percents, because, you know, Down Throw.... so I have no idea of when did that become a thing either....
I hope that won't get popular enough for Sakurai to throw the hammer.... specially now that the game is closing to the end of it's update cycle.

 

[Darklink401]

I love the Up Throw and used it a lot even when "it didn't combo".... just not on low percents, because, you know, Down Throw.... so I have no idea of when did that become a thing either....
I hope that won't get popular enough for Sakurai to throw the hammer.... specially now that the game is closing to the end of it's update cycle.

I doubt he'd patch out a sub-part combo throw (tho admittedly it can lead into a MUCH more than subpar combo XDD)

When the @#$ did this happen? Have we been getting stealth buffs? I just looked through release notes, I see nothing has changed. We tested the crap out of this.
I feel like an idiot, more than anything, and maybe I should stop cursing the Sakurai quite so much....

Welp, have to redo my grab section for the video. So we have 2 combo throws. Thanks for finding this!

No idea~ I don't even use Samus that often o3o''

You're welcome tho!

I didn't think up throw actually combo'd into stuff..
If this is actually a thing, then that's pretty cool.

It is a thing, sir

 

[AlphaRidley]

I think this is great for a Samus Main like me. I did not think of using anything but dthrow for Samus' throwing game. But this is a genius discovery. Better hope Sakurai doesn't nerf this. Because that would be. Well. Back to the dthrow Samus. I will still use the dthrow but now that I have seen this I will use this periodically.

 

[Darklink401]

I think this is great for a Samus Main like me. I did not think of using anything but dthrow for Samus' throwing game. But this is a genius discovery. Better hope Sakurai doesn't nerf this. Because that would be. Well. Back to the dthrow Samus. I will still use the dthrow but now that I have seen this I will use this periodically.

I'd suggest using upthrow when possible, like upthrow fair, that way you can stale upthrow, still get damage, and be able to easily kill later with upthrow upair up B.

 

[Shuckle_SSB]

Now I know Uthrow Up B at 0% was true with the very tip of the Up B on fast fallers before, but I dismissed even trying to use it because it felt so useless opposed to Dthrow. I can't wait to lab this with a bud. Its so exciting! Landing a grab at 10% being able to net a kill if you are in the correct part of a stage? I'll take that. Samus needs all she can get.

 

[Afro Smash]

PIPE IT UP

DungeonMaster get on the percent ranges for all characters stat! please

Darklink401 does the battlefied combo work the same on dreamland or is the top platform too high?

 

[-_ellipsis_-]

Dafuq did I just watch? LOL of course nobody would test upthrow.

 

[Darklink401]

PIPE IT UP

DungeonMaster get on the percent ranges for all characters stat! please

Darklink401 does the battlefied combo work the same on dreamland or is the top platform too high?

It works on both DL and Duck Hunt's tree

In fact with Duck Hunt's tree, you don't even need the up B...the 2 upairs after you land kill at 10% anyways lol

Dafuq did I just watch? LOL of course nobody would test upthrow.

Except someone that doesn't play Samus :D

lol

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Friendly reminder that Uthrow is weight based unlike Dthrow which isn't. So the endlag you have from throwing a light target is less than a heavier one. Chances are, these strings are only possible on characters with similar height, fall speed, and gravity as ZSS. Sure enough, Sheik and Fox are compatible while Jigglypuff and Charizard aren't. But I would test a variety of characters attempting to air dodge all the same.

 

[Darklink401]

Friendly reminder that Uthrow is weight based unlike Dthrow which isn't. So the endlag you have from throwing a light target is less than a heavier one. Chances are, these strings are only possible on characters with similar height, fall speed, and gravity as ZSS. Sure enough, Sheik and Fox are compatible while Jigglypuff and Charizard aren't. But I would test a variety of characters attempting to air dodge all the same.

It's a shame, really, but it works on Fox, ZSS and Roy as far as I've tested, and that's good enough for me

You can get it on Marth but its super tight.

 

[Xygonn]

I think the key is that you have to time the DJ right. FJ uair definitely doesn't work. Even the rapid DJ is a bit too slow to get there. You need that boost in velocity on your way up.

 

[White_Pointer]

I dunno what it is, but it just looks to me like it shouldn't true combo. I'll need to test it myself when I get the chance.

Mind you, even if this is true, I don't think it changes our grab game significantly. Her grab is still terribad and she still doesn't have anything resembling a kill throw.

 

[Metallinatus]

I dunno what it is, but it just looks to me like it shouldn't true combo. I'll need to test it myself when I get the chance.

Mind you, even if this is true, I don't think it changes our grab game significantly. Her grab is still terribad and she still doesn't have anything resembling a kill throw.

Are you describing ZSS?

 

[JAZZ_]

Well look at that, im gone for a few cramming hours into xenoblade chronicles x and yet ANOTHER new Samus tech is discovered. What on earth is going on here? For months not much changes meta wise then as soon as I grab a new game off the shelf things ramp up. If i can peel myself away from that game for just one night ill have a lot of homework to catch up on.

I cant imagine how @Izaw would feel about this. Right when hes coming close to sealing up the books on Art of Samus stuff like this happens.

 

[Darklink401]

Well look at that, im gone for a few cramming hours into xenoblade chronicles x and yet ANOTHER new Samus tech is discovered. What on earth is going on here? For months not much changes meta wise then as soon as I grab a new game off the shelf things ramp up. If i can peel myself away from that game for just one night ill have a lot of homework to catch up on.

I cant imagine how @Izaw would feel about this. Right when hes coming close to sealing up the books on Art of Samus stuff like this happens.

Lol.

I have to apologize for both this and the dreamland superjump, it seems xDD

 

[JAZZ_]

Lol.

I have to apologize for both this and the dreamland superjump, it seems xDD

Oh i was thinking of the RAR SH Z Tether trump tech that was opened up a couple days ago but yeah that too.

 

[Vyrnx]

This seems super unreliable... not to be a debbie downer. It works on 3-4 characters at a specific percent, requires immense precision, and nobody has tested DI yet.

 

[Darklink401]

This seems super unreliable... not to be a debbie downer. It works on 3-4 characters at a specific percent, requires immense precision, and nobody has tested DI yet.

4 characters at least. I haven't tested most characters, but I can confirm upthrow upair works on Fox, Roy, ZSS and Falcon.
It does not require immense precision. It's actually quite easy if you get used to how fast you can jump out of upthrow, and if you get used to the jump timing.
DI has been tested. You can hardly DI upthrow, because of the angle it sends you. Not enough to escape the upair.

 

[Cylosis]

Awesome move indeed, it could help against people who knows how to fastly DI DThrow.
I feel like ZSS could have escaped the uair > upB part, am I wrong ?

 

[Vyrnx]

4 characters at least. I haven't tested most characters, but I can confirm upthrow upair works on Fox, Roy, ZSS and Falcon.
It does not require immense precision. It's actually quite easy if you get used to how fast you can jump out of upthrow, and if you get used to the jump timing.
DI has been tested. You can hardly DI upthrow, because of the angle it sends you. Not enough to escape the upair.

I got it on ROB once as well, and Diddy, but I couldn't replicate with Diddy. I'll try this out more. And for what it's worth, people who mash air dodge can be daired afterwards easily off a read just like in dthrow/dash attack combos.

and it's nice that it works on characters like Fox and ZSS for sure, if we can get it reliably it will definitely start being seen since that MU isn't uncommon...

 

[Shuckle_SSB]

Well look at that, im gone for a few cramming hours into xenoblade chronicles x and yet ANOTHER new Samus tech is discovered. What on earth is going on here? For months not much changes meta wise then as soon as I grab a new game off the shelf things ramp up. If i can peel myself away from that game for just one night ill have a lot of homework to catch up on.

I cant imagine how @Izaw would feel about this. Right when hes coming close to sealing up the books on Art of Samus stuff like this happens.

Man I wish there was some way to contact Izaw myself. I have some knowledge he may not have in the video that I really think should be included.

 

[Xygonn]

Man I wish there was some way to contact Izaw myself. I have some knowledge he may not have in the video that I really think should be included.

PM him.

 

[DungeonMaster]

DungeonMaster get on the percent ranges for all characters stat! please

Yep yep, I drive home tomorrow and will test extensively.
I'm still pushing on the video, Izaw has some clips and may be delaying his art of vid as a result of my own video and what he's seen. I'm close, really close, need to wrap up loose ends. It's 25 minutes now, no joke.
The complete thread is incomplete, sadly, and has been for a while as I've been working on the video version, there are some combos that may surprise you guys. Actually I'm confident you will be surprised.
But I didn't see this one, which is shameful.

 

[KayJay]

Found a pretty reliable Mix-Up on Dreamland that makes 0% to Death possible without having to be frame perfect:

Tested against airdodge & DI away input.

 

[Metallinatus]

Oh boy, being a Samus main has never been more exciting in Smash 4....

 

[Darklink401]

Found a pretty reliable Mix-Up on Dreamland that makes 0% to Death possible without having to be frame perfect:

Tested against airdodge & DI away input.

Dang that's sweet. Also confirms that it works on Sheik. Which is nice.

 

[Hark17ball]

We.....WE HAVE AN UP THROW!?!?

 

[DungeonMaster]

Wow it's tight to get that to register past 0%. It's real though, maybe 2-3 frames of leeway. Almost like someone coded it specifically to avoid combo and never bothered to check.

 

[Darklink401]

Wow it's tight to get that to register past 0%. It's real though, maybe 2-3 frames of leeway. Almost like someone coded it specifically to avoid combo and never bothered to check.

Unless it's vs ZSS :3

 

[Rohins]

That's pretty sick. Anyone test in a match yet?