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Glory Blaze

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 4, 2015
Messages
53
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GloryBlaze37
Nosferatu is an excellent tool and an important part of Robin's kit. Notably, it's a command grab, meaning it works on shielding opponents.
What does this mean?

It's one of our best tools to approach an opponent on a platform above us. Being above another character makes you vulnerable. It's much easier for a grounded character to hit someone on a platform above them (up tilt, up smash, short hop aerials, etc) than for a character on a platform to hit a grounded character. However, most characters cannot hit an opponent on a platform above them who is shielding, as characters typically cannot grab while in the air. Therefore, when your opponent is on a platform above you and you jump at them, the most common reaction is going to be a shield. Nosferatu handily beats shields, doing hefty damage and healing Robin.

Nos is also great as a tomahawk grab. One of Robin's best approach options in neutral is to jump towards the opponent with a levin fair, as it's quite safe on shield if spaced correctly. If you do this enough during a match, the opponent will either keep getting hit and die (we win) or start reflexively reacting when they see you jump in. the most common option by far is that when you jump towards your opponent horizontally, they will shield in an attempt to either block or parry levin fair. This means that they are vulnerable to nosferatu. As soon as the opponent starts consistently shielding levin fair, jump at them and don't use fair at all. Instead, hit them with nosferatu as you land. We win.

As a side note, if they seem to develop a habit of spot dodging the levin fair instead of shielding it, don't use nosferatu. Instead, swing with levin fair like usual and if it whiffs, just land and start mashing A to jab. Levin fair has low enough landing lag (and jab is quick enough) that we'll typically catch the spot dodge. Again, we win.
 

SJMistery

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 18, 2016
Messages
383
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It can be used for punishes, but it's best utility is the same as Smash 4: Just spam it until it runs out of chages, and then shoot the tome.
 

Avokha

A+B smash tech is my baby <3
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It can be used for punishes, but it's best utility is the same as Smash 4: Just spam it until it runs out of chages, and then shoot the tome.
I have never agreed with this tactic.

The utility of the spell is far too great to be wasted for a nerfed discard, as they no longer possess the kill power they once had. Robin is one of a select few characters that can condition opponents to stay in shield (via Levin sword and thunder spells) and then condition them back out of shield as we wish. Not only that, the psychological effects of landing Nosferatu is undeniable; dealing damage whilst at the same time healing even more can quite often put the opponent on tilt, especially if you are able to land the spell 3 times consecutively.
Discards happen all the time when playing robin, so there's really no reason at all to deliberately waste you're resources solely for a discard. You should just grab a discard when one occurs naturally if you want it.
 

SJMistery

Smash Journeyman
Joined
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Messages
383
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I have never agreed with this tactic.

The utility of the spell is far too great to be wasted for a nerfed discard, as they no longer possess the kill power they once had. Robin is one of a select few characters that can condition opponents to stay in shield (via Levin sword and thunder spells) and then condition them back out of shield as we wish. Not only that, the psychological effects of landing Nosferatu is undeniable; dealing damage whilst at the same time healing even more can quite often put the opponent on tilt, especially if you are able to land the spell 3 times consecutively.
Discards happen all the time when playing robin, so there's really no reason at all to deliberately waste you're resources solely for a discard. You should just grab a discard when one occurs naturally if you want it.
To each his own. I find the stantard grab to be more practical due to, you know, not being unsafe on hit on half the cast.

And speaking of wich, there is any updated chart for the new knockback values and potential kill % of the tomes?
 

Avokha

A+B smash tech is my baby <3
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Although I think that wasting it for a tome isn't the best use of Nosferatu's potential either, aren't there some pretty early kill confirms from tome->thoron? Using nos for a discard might become a more viable strategy depending on how consistent those kill confirms turn out to be.
There are kill confirms with discards>thoron, and I suppose you could deliberately discard something if you manage to get the opponent at that precise percent that true combos. But like I said, discards happen naturally all the time, so you shouldn't be purposefully wasting resources just to grab a discard, normally. The only good reason to waste uses is using the last use of elwind so you don't get caught by the dreaded single blade offstage, or for the above kill confirm imo.
 
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CrimsonAvenger

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
20
There are kill confirms with discards>thoron, and I suppose you could deliberately discard something if you manage to get the opponent at that precise percent that true combos. But like I said, discards happen naturally all the time, so you shouldn't be purposefully wasting resources just to grab a discard, normally. The only good reason to waste uses is using the last use of elwind so you don't get caught by the dreaded single blade offstage, or for the above kill confirm imo.
Completely agree here. Also have you noticed that a single blade will not let you ledge snap? Don't know why they needed to add the extra salt there.

I use Nosferatu a lot. It is great after taking a stock and the opponent comes in fresh, you can heal for an easy 20%.
Try to Nosferatu at an opponents feet when they are on a platform above you.
It usually catches them off guard.

Nosferatu also has better reach than a standard grab.

Also you can combo into Nosferatu off of arc fire or arc thunder.
 

SJMistery

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
383
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I didn't know you could get a Nos off an arc thunder. Would you happen to know about how far away you need to cast arc thunder for that to be possible?
With the new Arcthunder, you pretty much need to be at point blank range to combo out of it.
 

Avokha

A+B smash tech is my baby <3
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I was hoping that you could be a little further away, like with the arc thunder combos that use a sequential thunder cast to stall the opponent's knock back for a follow up, that's a bit unfortunate lol
I believe that can work, and also for arcthunder directly into nosferatu, you do need to catch them at a specific spacing for it, same as all other arcthunder followups. That space just happens to be closer to robin than other followups. I've seen a twitter clip also showing a b reverse arcthunder into shorthop nosferatu, so that is a possible avenue to take for landing it.
 
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