Upgrade Your Offense With Attack Canceling

With Super Smash Bros. Ultimate finally out, we're already starting to see some new tech emerge, and My Smash Corner brings us one that could be a game changer in the form of attack canceling. It's possible to cancel the early frames of any grounded normal - be it a jab, tilt, smash or dash attack - into a jump. It's also possible to cancel a dash attack into a grab.

There are two notable applications for this. For one, attack canceling a dash attack will produce a neutral jump rather than a forward jump like one would normally perform out of a dash, making this useful for spacing aerials with characters like Marth or Toon Link. Attack canceled forward-tilts can also be used to quickly perform turn-around aerials from a standing position.

My Smash Corner goes more in-depth with applications for the technique in the full video - including some character and matchup-specific variations. He also presents a similar technique in the form of Instant Reverse Aerials, a technique comparable in utility to Reverse Aerial Rush, but with an input similar to an attack cancel.

Those familiar with traditional fighting games will likely recognize this as a type of kara cancel - canceling an action's early frames into another action. Usually this is possible due to leniency measures designed to prevent mis-inputs for actions that involve certain button combinations, and it wouldn't be surprising if that turned out to be the case here.

 

If finding ways for the game to be more competitive and fun to watch is "game breaking" for you, then dude I hate to break it to you, but people do this all the time. Us "competitive players" take the game to a new level. Especially if money is involved. There are players out there like Zero, Esam, etc that are able to live and play for a team with their job being Smash bros and livestreaming. So if you wanna complain about it, go to a different game dude. Oh wait, there isn't another game like smash... guess you gotta deal with it

Find me the interview where sakurai talked about this glitch. This is the fault of his team for leaving it in and all of you "competitive" players for breaking the game like you did with unfinished melee

 

Please guys stay in the topic. Anyway, the reversed back-air is really improving the ko potential of all characters, giving them a "new" forward move. This is useful for characters like Kirby or Bayonetta

 

If finding ways for the game to be more competitive and fun to watch is "game breaking" for you, then dude I hate to break it to you, but people do this all the time. Us "competitive players" take the game to a new level. Especially if money is involved. There are players out there like Zero, Esam, etc that are able to live and play for a team with their job being Smash bros and livestreaming. So if you wanna complain about it, go to a different game dude. Oh wait, there isn't another game like smash... guess you gotta deal with it

There is no real skill involved when you just use glitches 24/7. And the fact that you turn off items/stages means theres no real strategy and skill. You should play street fighter and not ruin smash bros

 

Brah why all the salt? What's wrong with some depth in a game?

 

Please guys stay in the topic. Anyway, the reversed back-air is really improving the ko potential of all characters, giving them a "new" forward move. This is useful for characters like Kirby or Bayonetta

As a DK main I want to master this for b-airs. DK f-air takes way to long to use in the neutral game. Being able to throw short hop b-air easily and quickly will be nice. Its sad to see all this salt about new tech being found. Why do some many people want a smash game with no advanced tech? This is a fighting game guys. This is the nature of this genre of games.

 

I'm also finding the instant throw thing to be a bit interesting, considering how the usual input is indeed no longer possible... it could prove handy when dealing with folks like Diddy Kong and Snake down the road.

also, watching Fox play fetch with himself using Link's shiny remote bomb is pretty funny. and speaking of the remote bombs... Izaw'll likely made some use out of that instant throw input to get more of these very nasty setups for the Hylian Champion!

 

Brah why all the salt? What's wrong with some depth in a game?

Theres no depth, it's just glitch abusing like melee

 

On an unrelated note, if you play with casual friends items turned on, watch your non-competitive friends get surprised when you insta-pick up and reverse throw some capsules and bob-ombs at them :D

Reverse b-airs are awesome too. Once you get the timing down it is easier and faster execute than RAR short-hop bair.

 

On an unrelated note, if you play with casual friends items turned on, watch your non-competitive friends get surprised when you insta-pick up and reverse throw some capsules and bob-ombs at them :D

Reverse b-airs are awesome too. Once you get the timing down it is easier and faster execute than RAR short-hop bair.

Anyway to do it without setting jump to bumper or using claw grip?

 

Anyway to do it without setting jump to bumper or using claw grip?

Yeah theoretically it is possible. You could use the control stick and the face button for the reverse tilt, then press jump, and mash the control stick the opposite direction... theoretically that would work, but I don't know how practical or ergonomic that would be.

Can't really speak to that, since I set my L shoulder button to jump. I've been doing that since Brawl came out and again with Smash4 and this game, with the pro controllers digital shoulder buttons.

 

Great now this game is gonna turn into glitch fest melee where so called "competitive" players will says they're good at the good because they know how to do glitches

wrong

 

MASHING THE ZR BUTTON AND GOIN' MARIO PARTY 1 ON THE C STICK

 

I dont get the hate for tech like this. I’m casual as hell and when I finally pulled off a forward-back-air or whatever you call it, i was super hype. Discovering tech in a game =/= abusing a glitch. If anything, stuff like this just adds a tone more depth and possibilities.

 

I dont get the hate for tech like this. I’m casual as hell and when I finally pulled off a forward-back-air or whatever you call it, i was super hype. Discovering tech in a game =/= abusing a glitch. If anything, stuff like this just adds a tone more depth and possibilities.

It IS a glitch. It was never intended and its gonna make the so called "competive" smash players suddenly demented like what happened with melee.

 

I dont get the hate for tech like this. I’m casual as hell and when I finally pulled off a forward-back-air or whatever you call it, i was super hype. Discovering tech in a game =/= abusing a glitch. If anything, stuff like this just adds a tone more depth and possibilities.

the problem about people like them is that they have a heaping amount of bias towards what they believe the intent was, and regardless of what the hard data shows, they'll remain in firm denial when people show them a trick that can be done by pushing the system further than expected... as you can likely figure out already, this isn't actually a glitch, just an exploit...

a good example of a glitch I can bring up from Brawl is with Sonic's Spin Dash... launch it from a steep enough incline, and when he leaves the peak, he'll be somehow spindashing on thin air, and if he hits someone while doing that, he suddenly teleports way above, still rolling straight on no actual ground. now I'm no expert on the code, but I THINK something about a Spin Dash that had its jump negated by a hill caused that thin air to register in error as ground... THAT'S a glitch... and a relatively harmless one at that.

just ignore people like them... they're just trying to instigate an argument either for their amusement, or their validity in their ignorance.

MASHING THE ZR BUTTON AND GOIN' MARIO PARTY 1 ON THE C STICK

NOOOOOO, WHY'D YOU HAVE TO GIVE ME FLASHBACKS OF THAT STUPID TUG-O-WAR GAME!?

 

NOOOOOO, WHY'D YOU HAVE TO GIVE ME FLASHBACKS OF THAT STUPID TUG-O-WAR GAME!?

You're welcome.

 

Why am I replying to the very first reply? Because I have a point to make.

Great now this game is gonna turn into glitch fest melee where so called "competitive" players will says they're good at the good because they know how to do glitches

And what about SDI/"hitstun shuffling"? Tech isn't the reason why competitive is trash; the problem is the fact that they ban stages for completely ludicrous reasons like "IT'S TOO GOSH DARN BIG PEOPLE ARE GONNA RUN AWAY" or "NONONONONO HAZARDS ARE A BIG RED FLAG PEOPLE SHOULD FOCUS ON THE OPPONENT AND ONLY THE OPPONENT". For one, I could run around Battlefield forever and not get hit once with enough skill. For two, hazards are still balanced. It's not like the Yellow Devil is only going after player 2 or WarioWare has challenges only Player 1 can beat. Everyone has an equal chance of winning, regardless of stage.
But tech? Really? You're going to take a dump on the competitive scene because of TECH?!
This is why people make you look like an idiot. Does EVO Moment #37 look like Ken abusing glitches on Chun-Li? No! It looks like a highly skilled Street Fighter...fighter with the reflexes to do frame-perfect inputs of Back to block every single hit with only a sliver of health left and then release a combo that defeats Chun-Li just like that. That is pure skill, not a game-breaking bug.
And how is Smash Bros. any different? Sure, you have wobbling, but that's as bad as it gets (at least at tournaments). Wavedashing, L-cancelling, and dash-dancing are just part of the overall experience and people play Smash how they want to. Even though they should try all the stages instead of just the boring, tiny ones and they should try to main all the characters instead of just the ones that people will research and as far as we know there might be some undiscovered tech with Kirby that makes him better than Fox and we just haven't been bothered to find it.

 

And what about SDI/"hitstun shuffling"? Tech isn't the reason why competitive is trash; the problem is the fact that they ban stages for completely ludicrous reasons like "IT'S TOO GOSH DARN BIG PEOPLE ARE GONNA RUN AWAY" or "NONONONONO HAZARDS ARE A BIG RED FLAG PEOPLE SHOULD FOCUS ON THE OPPONENT AND ONLY THE OPPONENT". For one, I could run around Battlefield forever and not get hit once with enough skill. For two, hazards are still balanced. It's not like the Yellow Devil is only going after player 2 or WarioWare has challenges only Player 1 can beat. Everyone has an equal chance of winning, regardless of stage.

whoa there, while I do see this argument and agree with it to a degree, I do at least acknowledge the reason for some of the reasons that players ban things... I do agree that the camping logic has been getting a bit out of hand as of lately, but there are more than enough stages that at least justify it...

obviously if a fast character like Sheik, Falcon, or Sonic were to get the lead in a place like New Pork City or a Temple, they could run away and be almost impossible to keep up without being practically clairvoyant... stages with run offs devolve into a game of chicken, and it's either you play it, or let the clock run out if they stick to it (and unless you're getting pelted by projectiles, they'll typically lose because the blastzone area does slow damage up to 150%). I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be willing to wait six to seven minutes to win one game by default, and TOs will be very angry because that waiting game caused everything else they're doing in the event to run behind schedule, and they're serious about not keeping an audience waiting, as annoying as I feel it is. for stages like Duck Hunt, once you're at a high enough percent, all your opponent would need to do is get to the top of that tree, and reaching them at all would pose a serious risk for you, while they're safe to sit there as long as they keep their eyes on you.

as for Stage Hazards, I feel the ones that actively damage the fighters will add an element of luck into the match, which is a very easy thing to blame on a loss (why Whispy Woods (DL64), Peach's Veggies, and G&W's Judge don't get that complaint much these days still baffles me, btw). so in the past, the TOs that were deciding on tournament rules often decided that whatever stages that held the lowest luck factor would be viable, with those that have no such element being common starters...

but now that Hazards can be turned off, it's an easy way to get a potentially larger assortment of stage variety... thing is, because I feel the "easy to camp on" argument is getting out of hand, the variety isn't anywhere near as hopeful as I would like... plus, Town&City and Smashville in particular will have an adjustment period because the platforms will not move anymore with hazards off, even though they were starters with them on. the fact that most people will give a generalized answer that "hazards are bad" in some form reinforces my belief that the decision to turn them all off was a blanket choice made for TOs convenience and not much more...

 

Why am I replying to the very first reply? Because I have a point to make.
And what about SDI/"hitstun shuffling"? Tech isn't the reason why competitive is trash; the problem is the fact that they ban stages for completely ludicrous reasons like "IT'S TOO GOSH DARN BIG PEOPLE ARE GONNA RUN AWAY" or "NONONONONO HAZARDS ARE A BIG RED FLAG PEOPLE SHOULD FOCUS ON THE OPPONENT AND ONLY THE OPPONENT". For one, I could run around Battlefield forever and not get hit once with enough skill. For two, hazards are still balanced. It's not like the Yellow Devil is only going after player 2 or WarioWare has challenges only Player 1 can beat. Everyone has an equal chance of winning, regardless of stage.
But tech? Really? You're going to take a dump on the competitive scene because of TECH?!
This is why people make you look like an idiot. Does EVO Moment #37 look like Ken abusing glitches on Chun-Li? No! It looks like a highly skilled Street Fighter...fighter with the reflexes to do frame-perfect inputs of Back to block every single hit with only a sliver of health left and then release a combo that defeats Chun-Li just like that. That is pure skill, not a game-breaking bug.
And how is Smash Bros. any different? Sure, you have wobbling, but that's as bad as it gets (at least at tournaments). Wavedashing, L-cancelling, and dash-dancing are just part of the overall experience and people play Smash how they want to. Even though they should try all the stages instead of just the boring, tiny ones and they should try to main all the characters instead of just the ones that people will research and as far as we know there might be some undiscovered tech with Kirby that makes him better than Fox and we just haven't been bothered to find it.

I don't agree with you on this whole "tech" (really means glitch abusing) thing. I agree with everything else. Because "competitive" players dont know how to play the actual game they proceed to ban everything in site. Items make the game different from every other boring fighting game and they remove them to make the game exactly like dull button mashing street fighter.

 

I don't agree with you on this whole "tech" (really means glitch abusing) thing. I agree with everything else. Because "competitive" players dont know how to play the actual game they proceed to ban everything in site. Items make the game different from every other boring fighting game and they remove them to make the game exactly like dull button mashing street fighter.

That's the beauty of Smash Bros. You can play however you want. No one is tying you down and forcing you to play under a competitive ruleset. Enjoy the game your way rather than complaining about how others enjoy it.

Considering every one of your posts is bashing competitive play in general, I'm going to assume you're trolling and that this will fall on deaf ears.

 

whoa there, while I do see this argument and agree with it to a degree, I do at least acknowledge the reason for some of the reasons that players ban things... I do agree that the camping logic has been getting a bit out of hand as of lately, but there are more than enough stages that at least justify it...

Go on...

obviously if a fast character like Sheik, Falcon, or Sonic were to get the lead in a place like New Pork City or a Temple, they could run away and be almost impossible to keep up without being practically clairvoyant...

PK THUNDER

stages with run offs devolve into a game of chicken, and it's either you play it, or let the clock run out if they stick to it (and unless you're getting pelted by projectiles, they'll typically lose because the blastzone area does slow damage up to 150%).

WITCH TIME (Is that still in Ultimate?)

I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be willing to wait six to seven minutes to win one game by default, and TOs will be very angry because that waiting game caused everything else they're doing in the event to run behind schedule, and they're serious about not keeping an audience waiting, as annoying as I feel it is. for stages like Duck Hunt, once you're at a high enough percent, all your opponent would need to do is get to the top of that tree, and reaching them at all would pose a serious risk for you, while they're safe to sit there as long as they keep their eyes on you.

This is a possibility, not a guarantee. Just because you can doesn't mean you should, and about that tree, just use an Up-B through it.

as for Stage Hazards, I feel the ones that actively damage the fighters will add an element of luck into the match, which is a very easy thing to blame on a loss (why Whispy Woods (DL64), Peach's Veggies, and G&W's Judge don't get that complaint much these days still baffles me, btw). so in the past, the TOs that were deciding on tournament rules often decided that whatever stages that held the lowest luck factor would be viable, with those that have no such element being common starters...

Luck. The main driving force of the Smash Bros. series that separates it from the likes of Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. The reason why I've grown so attached to this series and the reason why Brawl is still my favorite game of all time. Remember, real men use items and Sakurai's luck is why the first game even got created. Taking the luck out of Smash is like taking the multiplayer out of Call of Duty. Sure, you have the base game, but nothing from that base game that people remember it for. Removing the parts of Smash that are currently "illegal" and unviable would leave you with nothing but five characters and fifteen stages, where all levels are one foot long and have nothing inside them but a few platforms (if that).

but now that Hazards can be turned off, it's an easy way to get a potentially larger assortment of stage variety... thing is, because I feel the "easy to camp on" argument is getting out of hand, the variety isn't anywhere near as hopeful as I would like... plus, Town&City and Smashville in particular will have an adjustment period because the platforms will not move anymore with hazards off, even though they were starters with them on. the fact that most people will give a generalized answer that "hazards are bad" in some form reinforces my belief that the decision to turn them all off was a blanket choice made for TOs convenience and not much more...

Name one difference between Wily Castle Omega and Wily Castle (No Hazards).
But I get the idea. Everyone enjoys Smash in their own way. Turning off items, while shutting down a major aspect of the game, does allow for more hype battles. Bigger stages can lead to hour-long matches where nobody does anything except for running. However, there is no excuse for not researching lower-tier characters to see if they have more potential.

I don't agree with you on this whole "tech" (really means glitch abusing) thing.

Clearly you don't like speedruns.

I agree with everything else. Because "competitive" players dont know how to play the actual game they proceed to ban everything in site. Items make the game different from every other boring fighting game and they remove them to make the game exactly like dull button mashing street fighter.

Honestly, the only thing I disagree in this block of text here is that you said Street Fighter is boring.

That's the beauty of Smash Bros. You can play however you want. No one is tying you down and forcing you to play under a competitive ruleset. Enjoy the game your way rather than complaining about how others enjoy it.

Considering every one of your posts is bashing competitive play in general, I'm going to assume you're trolling and that this will fall on deaf ears.

Exactly!


Except for the fact that there doesn't seem to be a tournament where every stage is allowed and all items are on. The existence of that would make even more people (including ESPECIALLY me) join the competitive scene instantly. (And by tournament, I mean those big annual tournaments like Super Smash Con and EVO, not some one-off thing at some kid's birthday party.)

 

Go on...

PK THUNDER

WITCH TIME (Is that still in Ultimate?)

This is a possibility, not a guarantee. Just because you can doesn't mean you should, and about that tree, just use an Up-B through it.

Luck. The main driving force of the Smash Bros. series that separates it from the likes of Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. The reason why I've grown so attached to this series and the reason why Brawl is still my favorite game of all time. Remember, real men use items and Sakurai's luck is why the first game even got created. Taking the luck out of Smash is like taking the multiplayer out of Call of Duty. Sure, you have the base game, but nothing from that base game that people remember it for. Removing the parts of Smash that are currently "illegal" and unviable would leave you with nothing but five characters and fifteen stages, where all levels are one foot long and have nothing inside them but a few platforms (if that).

Name one difference between Wily Castle Omega and Wily Castle (No Hazards).
But I get the idea. Everyone enjoys Smash in their own way. Turning off items, while shutting down a major aspect of the game, does allow for more hype battles. Bigger stages can lead to hour-long matches where nobody does anything except for running. However, there is no excuse for not researching lower-tier characters to see if they have more potential.

Clearly you don't like speedruns.
Honestly, the only thing I disagree in this block of text here is that you said Street Fighter is boring.

Exactly!


Except for the fact that there doesn't seem to be a tournament where every stage is allowed and all items are on. The existence of that would make even more people (including ESPECIALLY me) join the competitive scene instantly. (And by tournament, I mean those big annual tournaments like Super Smash Con and EVO, not some one-off thing at some kid's birthday party.)

You really think PK thunder will prevent circle camping on temple? The fact that you legitimately believe this tells me you haven’t really tried to play optimally on any of the giant stages.

Oh and about the all items and stages at majors thing. We kinda already tried that. The only evo to feature brawl had all items on, and they may as well have decided the winner by playing Rock Paper Scissors. Seriously some kid won who had never even been to a smash tournament before. He also never placed at a major tournament again. You may value luck in smash but competitive players tend to prefer it without elements of luck because we want to decide who is the best, not the most lucky.

 

You really think PK thunder will prevent circle camping on temple? The fact that you legitimately believe this tells me you haven’t really tried to play optimally on any of the giant stages.

Honestly, I don't play with other people that often, anyway. The fact that nobody uses Wiimmfi for Brawl and you have to pay money to play Ultimate online really only leaves 4, a game that I primarily associate with Crazy Orders and Smash Run, and nobody in my house likes Smash except for me. That, combined with the fact that my only friend is coping with the fact that his baby sister has a hole in her heart (and has been since the past year and a half) leaves me with no choice but to fight against the CPUs, and I always forget to set them to Level 9.

Oh and about the all items and stages at majors thing. We kinda already tried that. The only evo to feature brawl had all items on, and they may as well have decided the winner by playing Rock Paper Scissors. Seriously some kid won who had never even been to a smash tournament before. He also never placed at a major tournament again. You may value luck in smash but competitive players tend to prefer it without elements of luck because we want to decide who is the best, not the most lucky.

Is that a problem? You may see it as one, but look at it from the perspective of someone who sucks at Smash. Items and wackier stages allow anybody to stand a chance. And it's more fun for the viewer, as now not everything is "jumplaserlaserjumplaserlasershineshineshineleftrightleftrightfirefoxledgegrabjumpledgegrabteleportteleportteleportjumplaserlaserjumplaserlaser".
Would you rather see the exact same match over and over and over again, or something insane and awesome like how most people play at home? Right now, you see one match of any Smash game at a tournament and you've seen everything that will happen. Add items and the best stages into the mix and HOLY CHEESE BUTTS it's gonna get insane!

 

Is that a problem? You may see it as one, but look at it from the perspective of someone who sucks at Smash. Items and wackier stages allow anybody to stand a chance. And it's more fun for the viewer, as now not everything is "jumplaserlaserjumplaserlasershineshineshineleftrightleftrightfirefoxledgegrabjumpledgegrabteleportteleportteleportjumplaserlaserjumplaserlaser".
Would you rather see the exact same match over and over and over again, or something insane and awesome like how most people play at home? Right now, you see one match of any Smash game at a tournament and you've seen everything that will happen. Add items and the best stages into the mix and HOLY CHEESE BUTTS it's gonna get insane!

I can sort of see where your coming from in the context of melee. That game has been out for what 16 years? As a result everyone knows everything that is optimal in that game so top level matches can get repetitive from the perspective of someone who doesn’t play melee because, it’s a solved game.

However, I completely disagree with this assessment in the context of ultimate. Competitive play is the opposite of the same characters and strategies over and over in ultimate right now. It’s basically the Wild West. Nobody really knows who the best characters are right now. Half of the top players don’t have a consistent main yet. I think it will be a long time before we really see things start to get stale in competitive smash ultimate, if ever.

 

I can sort of see where your coming from in the context of melee. That game has been out for what 16 years? As a result everyone knows everything that is optimal in that game so top level matches can get repetitive from the perspective of someone who doesn’t play melee because, it’s a solved game.

However, I completely disagree with this assessment in the context of ultimate. Competitive play is the opposite of the same characters and strategies over and over in ultimate right now. It’s basically the Wild West. Nobody really knows who the best characters are right now. Half of the top players don’t have a consistent main yet. I think it will be a long time before we really see things start to get stale in competitive smash ultimate, if ever.

I never said Ultimate has gotten stale. I'm saying for the games that are over ten years old (64, Melee, and Brawl), there should be some sort of tournament like that (or in the case of Brawl, literally any type of tournament at all).

 

PK THUNDER

shield... you still can't catch me, let alone win with one stock down

WITCH TIME (Is that still in Ultimate?)

Witch Time only triggers if you dodge something, and if I'm doing nothing, all you got are bullet arts, and that requires you leaving that safe zone behind you

This is a possibility, not a guarantee. Just because you can doesn't mean you should, and about that tree, just use an Up-B through it.

by the same token, "just because you can, doesn't mean you should". you can win on any other stage instead of duck hunt if you're good enough, but when you got stuff on the line, just because you can play on any other stage doesn't mean you should if you want the best chances. face any AI with your best fighter, and sit on that tree when they're at high percent. they come after you, there's 15 seconds left on the hypothetical clock, what's the first thing you do to deal with them?

Luck. The main driving force of the Smash Bros. series that separates it from the likes of Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat. The reason why I've grown so attached to this series and the reason why Brawl is still my favorite game of all time. Remember, real men use items and Sakurai's luck is why the first game even got created. Taking the luck out of Smash is like taking the multiplayer out of Call of Duty. Sure, you have the base game, but nothing from that base game that people remember it for. Removing the parts of Smash that are currently "illegal" and unviable would leave you with nothing but five characters and fifteen stages, where all levels are one foot long and have nothing inside them but a few platforms (if that).

if I recall, the "Real Men use Items" line was a joke by the translators to intentionally push the buttons of the less tolerant maniacs...Sakurai himself said something else (don't remember what it was, though). the analogy you used wasn't a very strong one, by the way. taking out items doesn't do anything to the characters or the ability to play multiplayer in the first place...

a better comparison using Call of Duty would be to remove add-ons to your guns or character, like perks, better aiming sights, or the "noobtoob", among a few others. the better player still wins, but a more casual player will get bored of the repetition. of course... Call of Duty was never really about variety when it truly came down to it, anyways, unlike games like Quake or Unreal Tournament... but I'm casual on FPS games, so games like CSGO or Rainbow Six: Siege wouldn't be my first choice right off the bat.

I also feel it's a bit exaggerated, while stages are debatable, I've yet to see anyone definitively and unanimously ban a character... and I stress the latter term because not every TO supported the ban on Meta Knight, and despite the Backroom group's decision, it was STILL hotly debated.

Name one difference between Wily Castle Omega and Wily Castle (No Hazards).

I'll nitpick this cause I find it funny how not everyone has an eye for detail. Hazardless Wily's Castle is the same as the omega form was in Smash 4, where it had walls that reached the bottom. Omega Wily's Castle in Ultimate does not have those walls anymore

But I get the idea. Everyone enjoys Smash in their own way. Turning off items, while shutting down a major aspect of the game, does allow for more hype battles. Bigger stages can lead to hour-long matches where nobody does anything except for running. However, there is no excuse for not researching lower-tier characters to see if they have more potential.

I will agree with that last sentence without a shadow of a doubt. plus, it makes the accomplishment of destroying big contenders with someone nobody thought was good that much sweeter. look no further than with Salem's ZSS VS Mew2King's Meta Knight back in Apex 2014, [oops, 2013] in Brawl

[...] there doesn't seem to be a tournament where every stage is allowed and all items are on. The existence of that would make even more people (including ESPECIALLY me) join the competitive scene instantly. (And by tournament, I mean those big annual tournaments like Super Smash Con and EVO, not some one-off thing at some kid's birthday party.)

the primary reason that players are so bent on removing as much luck as possible is because there's usually money on the line for winning... if there was a tournament with everything turned on (hazards, items, etc.) and nothing on the line, I don't see a reason not to hold one on the side

Bear in mind, the main appeal with competition is that it's a test of skill to see who's better at the game. Core-A Gaming did a video analysis on the consequences of reducing the skill gap. as FloE says at the end of the video, "[spectators] don't care about who's the best anymore, they just want something to talk [trash] about"

 

I also feel it's a bit exaggerated, while stages are debatable, I've yet to see anyone definitively and unanimously ban a character... and I stress the latter term because not every TO supported the ban on Meta Knight, and despite the Backroom group's decision, it was STILL hotly debated.

I also said unviable.

 

I also said unviable.

I use different contexts when it comes to stages... outright ban worthy stages will have obvious strategies that basically everyone will take advantage of, as I mentioned already, such as with permanent runoffs or very blatantly obstructive hazards... that I can respect.

it's when you get to things like Blastzone size or less extreme layouts that I have a problem with. my local scene, for example, banned Warioware two weeks after launch because extended combos offstages will guarantee a kill, and that it's easy to camp on that stage. I do not agree with this because the layout isn't large enough to make it too easy to run, any character with far enough reach can catch someone trying to run on there, and any runoffs in the microgames don't appear with hazards off. plus, any extended combo (hell, even a strong edgeguard) should have the highest chance to KO because they managed to catch you in it.

 

Now I finally have a use for L1 and R1 when playing smash with a ps4 controller.

 

i have a question: what causes a retreating fair to come out when u do the inputs?