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Updated Character Video Guides

KirbyKaze

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Copy-pasted from my Melee Discussion thread...

We don't really have a lot of character-specific video guides. The majority of the video guides in existence are largely outdated, miss a bunch of important modern techniques, don't really teach fundamentals but rather focus on miscellaneous behaviors, are focused on a single technique, or simply aren't very informative.

I feel accessibility is one of our game's major issues. Our game is riddled with situational nonsense, inconsistencies, and (at least on a surface level) we have so much freedom with stylistic decisions it can be difficult for new players to find an effective starting point.

I think it would be a really good idea if we could step up our educational tools and work to make some simple video guides that could provide new people picking up the game a reasonable starting point for their character. They don't have to be extremely indepth or anything, or go too far into matchups. But even something simple like, "In order to play Peach effectively, you have to be comfortable with your float game because she defends, transitions into offense, and can hold beneficial positions in it against most characters blah blah blah" and while the speaker is speaking, demonstrate the various float heights (maybe bullets explaining why the heights are useful in different situations or something) and maybe include common ways of doing the input. Tricks, even. Some people claw for fast FCs, for instance, which I think is a pretty neat idea.

It seems like a lot of work because we'd need knowledgeable people to compile a list of basics for each character. I'm not sure how long these would wind up being because I honestly have no idea how much we'd want to put into them. But I think if we could get good people constructing these, or at least providing a framework for the guide's construction, it would significantly help those trying to get into the game.

So yeah. What do you think about something like this? Would it be something you'd be interested in?
After discussing it briefly with Dr. Peepee he thought it might be a good idea to bring this here. We have a lot of good minds back here. Thoughts? Suggestions? Is this something worth trying? Should this be moved into the proposal room?
 

Dr Peepee

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I really like this idea and it can be a great opportunity to learn/reinforce basics for both newcomers and those who have been around for a bit.

I'm not really sure what a downside to this would be unless the project was carried out poorly and produced some low-quality videos, but that could be avoided by getting the right people on board and running it by others before submitting any finished products, I assume.
 

Marc

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From experience, it's hard to find people who can actually produce and upload videos and are willing to stick with it. I'm sure we can all provide input, but in the end a lot of this will rest on the individuals with the necessary tools.
 

Strong Badam

Super Vegeta
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i could prolly make some stuff in Vegas for this if no one else can....
 

KirbyKaze

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If the project members for a character could compile a script to read during the clips or whatever, I would have no qualms with piecing the guide together provided they provide me with the materials. I understand we don't all have recording equipment for vocals, the necessary editing programs, etc. I don't even mind doing the recording part for the clips as long as they give me a detailed list of things to demonstrate. I'm sure I can find someone to delegate it to if it's a character I can't perform the clips for.

I don't think it'll come to something like that for the majority of the cast, though. It seems, from the responses I've gotten, most of the people I've contacted have some access to recording resources and editing programs.
 

Fortress | Sveet

▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀▄▀
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Are any fox players interested in this? I dont feel comfortable being the sole contributor for such a widely used character.
 

Strong Badam

Super Vegeta
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i think the best thing would be to make some sort of pilot so people know what you're going for KK, & that ep can be redone later if need be to be better w/ more resources. people seem to be lazy and don't want to read all this info lol.

& you know how to find me if you ever want DK stuff
 

Slhoka

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That's a good project. We should try with one character first, to see how we can do.

How about defining all the information needed for that character, and scripting it to show how it will be presented in the video ?
 

KirbyKaze

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How about defining all the information needed for that character, and scripting it to show how it will be presented in the video ?
This is how I wanted to go about it.

I'm gonna suggest we do this for Fox or Sheik to start, just because those are the characters I am most familiar with.
 

Strong Badam

Super Vegeta
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It'd be good to have some form of format. A quick run through of a character's more relevant moveset and applications, effective range in the neutral game, punishment options, spacing etc. are all things that need to be gone over but structure is good when teaching.
 

KirbyKaze

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The only issue I have with including some voluminous topics like "effective range in the neutral game" is that such a topic dips heavily into matchups because the effective range changes drastically if you're fighting Fox with Fox, than if you're fighting Sheik with Fox, or Jigglypuff with Fox. I understand that by addressing the characters' offensive and defensive abilities we're delving into that sort of thing inherently but I'm not yet sure how indepth I want these to be. I'm open to your input, though, and I'm not above being shown alternatives if there is support for it.

Another concern; the more we try to add, the longer these are gonna be, and more effort will be required. I also am concerned that the further we go into detail about matchups, the more people are going to be disappointed or upset with them because (as we've all seen from the MU chart threads) there is not a lot of agreement on what works / what doesn't work in <character> vs <other character>.

I am beginning to wonder if my initial vision is too vague for average level players.



Anyway, for the purpose of the topic the format we are currently using is the same one posted in Melee Discussion:

Video starts:

ROY

1. Brief explanation of character

This section would be pretty straight forward. Here I'd address all the little things. Roy is considered low tier by and large. This is because of his moves being particularly susceptible to crouch cancel, among other things. Just a quick character outline. Doesn't have to be long. After watching this section, the viewer knows roughly where Roy stands against the rest of the cast.

At this point, I'd provide a list of common advanced techniques or terminology that will be used for the guide, with a link to a SWF thread outlining how to do them. I'd probably highight the ones that are important to execute with Roy (dash dance, WD, SHFFL, etc).

2. Explanation of the character's basics

Ideally, this section would expand upon the stuff talked about in section 1. It could be split up into a group of sections like:

1) Offense
- Roy is fast, has good movement, relatively quick moves with decent range
- Roy is bad versus crouch cancel so there's an emphasis on grabbing a lot
- You can't always grab because they can do X, Y, or Z to adjust for it
- Position these moves like this usually so you aren't CC punished, etc.

2) Defense
- Roy has a pretty decent crouch cancel game between d-tilt and grab (and misc. stuff)
- Roy's dash dance is a good tool defensively because <stuff>
- Roy's WD OOS is good defensively because <stuff>
- Shield game (WD OOS, roll, sidestep, shield grab, etc).

* At the end of this part, I'd probably remind the audience that this is a rough outline and they shouldn't limit themselves to just what's in the guide in terms of offense/defense. A lot of "defensive" techniques can be used aggressively, such as approaching with shield, or crouch canceling a get-up attack to get a forward smash (with footage to match respective things). Then a simple reminder to experiment with using tools in different ways.

3) Onstage Punishment
- Combos
- Tech chasing
- Chain grab
- Illegitimate juggles
- Misc. stuff

4) Offstage Punishment
- Edgeguarding basics vs recoveries
- Misc. stuff
- Ledge pressure


It occurs to me now that I miss out on character-specific techniques; DK's cargo hold, IC's whole moveset, Sheik needle stuff, Fox and Falco's shine nonsense, and other crap like that.

Where to include that sort of thing (and how much!) now poses concern.





Discuss the format and propose changes, comments, concerns, etc. Be nitpicky, critical, etc. I want a solid format and some guidelines before I start telling people to brainstorm what should be done. I want all the outlines and scripting to be finished before the cameras start rolling.
 

Strong Badam

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I think how much depends on how important and generally applicable those character specific techniques are e.g. Sheik's needles contribute less to her competitive metagame than say Fox's shine or IC's grab mechanics so less time could be spent while still covering the basics of their applications.

I'll go over the format & post my thoughts after I eat dinner =)
 

ArcNatural

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For guides, I would really recommend just showing character specific tricks, then maybe a brief little combo video for a general idea.

So Fox would be something like:
Shinespike
Waveshine
Thunders
upthrow upsmash
upthrow cg
Recoveries
Movement tricks
Combos!

Sheik be like:
Needle Stores and applications (turn around store aerials, edgegrabbing, run off platforms, edgegaurding)
Common Traps (sh fair trap, uptilt trap positioning where you stand right where people run off platforms for uptilt > grab follow ups)
dthrow CG
Common dthrow setups
Tech Chase positioning
Dash attack uses
Wavedash back (I actually think for sheik it deserves it's own section lol)
Movement tricks
Combos!

Does this sound like a good idea? We could just get the combo clips from combo videos and and the tutorials can be from people in charge of the project.
 

KirbyKaze

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I don't mind a guide format like that so long as you include some common approaches and organize the techniques properly.

Movement tricks I think could be expanded to be a more general category, for instance, so I'd probably do something like:

MOVEMENT & POSITIONING
WD back
Wavelanding
Walking, dashing, trotting, etc.
Needle stores

I'd certainly want the techniques organized into something focused.
 

V3ctorMan

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This would take a significant amount of work, but I think could be very effective. I don't even know where i'd start for Yoshi/Roy >.>
 

KirbyKaze

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The Kirby guide should just be Fox shooting him with lasers and hitting some kind of bait (or dair) > u-throw uair that Kirby SDIs out of a bunch of times.

And then Fox pauses (like, literally pauses; start button and everything) and the camera zooms in on him. He does the :troll: face, unpauses, resumes lasers > bait / dair > grab, then starts u-throw bairing and Kirby makes the rageguy face as he's being hit offstage.




.
 

VA

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I've been running events in my local area for the past few months now. Our aim is to broaden the user base of tournament and gaming events thorugh emphasising the social nature of competitive gaming while maintaining that it is indeed, competitive and exciting.

Recently we've been considering creating content to increase the accessibility of new players. User feedback from our events suggested that the current guides available for new players to introduce them to the advanced principles of the game were not a) readily available, b) accessible in terms of content.

Therefore I will be, over the course of the next week, planning and attempting to create a new guide to the fundamental concepts of advanced smash in video form. For me, the advanced how to play video was quite simple and straightforward but the casual players I've spoken to recently found this too static and without enough depth of explanation.

All feedback and contributions to this project would be greatly appreciated. From what I have to go on the moment it's mostly going to be recycled Cactuar quotes... :p
 

Cactuar

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Sometimes I wonder how much of the training information out there can be sourced to me (and by extension, to mew2king in some amount).
 

LLDL

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I'll donate a spare capture device to you at the next tournament that we both attend.
 

Cactuar

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I actually borrowed one from ultimascout the other week, but its a straight to usb recording thing, so its awful to try and use for this project, as I want to be able to do live commentary on segments of me demonstrating things and splice them all together after. As is, I would have to record one giant segment, splice it apart, and then do a commentary track on top of each segment, which is ****ty.
 

VA

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Cactuar: is it alright if you read over a rough copy of the script for my beginners guide to smash at some point this week?
 

Skler

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I would write and read a Link script if need be.

And yes, it would be my guide verbatim but in a sexy Irish accent.
 

HyugaRicdeau

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Slippi.gg
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Who or what is 'bubbaking'?

Also, Isai recently made a quick video about a matchup in SSB, that might be somewhat instructive for any videos that people plan to make. It's a pretty simple idea for a video but to my knowledge nobody really makes anything like this for Melee. We are all familiar with giving character advice in terms of like, what positioning you want in the matchup, what moves/combos work when, DI, and so on, but we rarely see video clips compiled to illustrate the point.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYt8bjMFX0o
 

Lovage

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videos are so ****ing ****.

i would really like to contribute to any project doing fox tutorials or melee mechanic tutorials. all i have is a ****ty capture device and movie maker so i'm not tryna make anything really.
 
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