Updated Bowser Grab Release Thread

[Flayl]

Guide to Bowser's Grab Release Options


Important things to note:​

- Bowser has 11 frames of advantage over characters that are ground-released (1 against Donkey Kong and 21 against Lucas and Ness)
- Bowser has 31 frames of advantage over characters that are air-released (30 against Jigglypuff)
- The advantage Bowser gains from air-releases is shorter if the opponent lands before the release animation is over
- Air-releases cannot be DI'd until the release animation is over
- Ground-releases cannot be DI'd if the character's feet are touching the ground
- Ground-releases can be DI'd if the character's feet do not reach the ground
- In order to force a ground-release, you should input a pummel every 28 frames
- There are 8 frames during Bowser's pummel during which the opponent can air-release, hence why ground-releases aren't guaranteed
- Pummels and grab release options that aren't grabs when done correctly will count as a combo hit in training mode.

[collapse="Table with best release options"]

[/collapse]
Excel file with details

How to:​

- Buffer a dash grab: Tap diagonal Down-Forward then Z
- Buffer a dash attack: Tap forward on the control-stick then down on the C-stick
- Buffer a Forward Tilt: Hold the control stick forward while pummeling, let go and immediately after press A to buffer
- Do a stutter Over B: Time holding the control stick forward at the end of the release animation and press B afterwards
- Do Down B/Down Tilt: Hold the control stick down but not enough to crouch, mash B/A
- Do a pivot-grab: Input Down-Backward, Down, Down-Backward, Down-Forward + Z (yes it's very hard)
- Do prolonged dashes: Tap forward to buffer a dash, then hold forward when dash starts
- Do an edge-cancelled jump: Press jump immediately when you run off the stage - if done correctly you will do a full jump even if you only tapped the jump button

Slopes:​

- (Almost?) Any slope of any angle will force the opponent's feet to touch the ground
- Nobody can be standing chaingrabbed on a slope
- Rule of thumb is that you lose the ground-release option that requires the most proximity
- Over B can still work but require a larger stutter
- In terms of range: Dash Attack > Up-angled Forward Tilt > Dash Grab > Stutter Over B > Down Tilt

Practice:​

- Inputting a pummel every 28 frames
- Using Over B on:
-- Kirby's air release (full hop Over B)
-- Mario's air release (short hop Over B)
-- Pikachu's pummel release (stutter Over B)
- Using Forward Aerial on:
-- Yoshi's air release (full hop Forward Aerial)
-- Pikachu's air release (short hop Forward Aerial)
- Buffering a dash grab after forcing a ground-release
- Buffering a Forward Tilt after forcing a ground-release
- Holding the control stick so that you can Down B without crouching
- Edge-cancelling a jump to use Over B on Peach
- Other unique release tecniques that are relevant to your metagame

 

[Dumbfire]

Very nice job Flayl!

 

[Hobobloke]

Flayl gets **** done, awesome work man.

 

[Uncle]

This is beautiful.

 

[Zigsta]

Fantastic work, Flayl! I especially love how you recommend to practice.

Bowsers, we seriously need to step it up. All of us whiff grab releases too much, some more than others (myself clearly included). We need one grab to be done damage.

Flayl, you're putting in a ton of work for all of us. The least we can do is take your information and put it to good use.

Guys, it's time to hit the mountains.

 

[Jonas]

Well said Zig, now we have no excuse to mess up the grab releases

 

[Flayl]

Zigsta can you sticky this thread and unsticky the other one? The only thing left to do is to make the OP more appealing.

 

[Zigsta]

Done, Flayl.

 

[B!squick]

So Vex, when did you say we could expect that update?

 

[bigman40]

Excellent work Flayl. Maybe I'll put some work into memorizing this whenever I get back into smash.

 

[Vex Kasrani]

So Vex, when did you say we could expect that update?

My man Flayl's got it, he's a boss afterall!

Also, I rarely whiffed grab releases in my Bowser prime, everybody get better!

 

[MrEh]

Same. I used to get grab releases all the time. I was able to force ground releases whenever I wanted by listening to my opponent's mashing and adjusting my pummel speed to match.

But now I've become soft and weak. lol

 

[B!squick]

I've thought about figuring out the rough KO percentages of Bowser's moves lately out of boredom.

 

[Uncle]

Currently, ground release-SideB, air release-chaingrab, air release-Fair, and air release-SideB are the only GRs I've used successfully.

I need to work on the ground chaingrabs (Besides the standing cg, that's kinda easy.), tilts, and DownB.

 

[Flayl]

Pummels and Grab-release options that aren't grabs when done correctly will count as a combo in training mode.

Now I'm sure that I still can't FTilt correctly without A-stick =/

 

[Vex Kasrani]

Pummels and Grab-release options that aren't grabs when done correctly will count as a combo in training mode.

Now I'm sure that I still can't FTilt correctly without A-stick =/

Combo counter in training mode is very unreliable.

 

[MrEh]

Flubbed Knee to Falcon Punch is a combo according to Training Mode.

lol

 

[Flayl]

I'm not saying it's reliable for anything else...

 

[dskank]

Pummels and Grab-release options that aren't grabs when done correctly will count as a combo in training mode.

Now I'm sure that I still can't FTilt correctly without A-stick =/

y not? u just have to hold the grey stick so slightly that u wouldnt walk, but still tilt

 

[Flayl]

That works to avoid crouches but not to avoid walking. I can buffer DTilt perfectly.

 

[B!squick]

I can avoid walking. At least, I could back when I played.

 

[Flayl]

For those practicing air-releases that require prolonged dashes like FAir on Pikachu and Yoshi (in the excel file this is where I write "dash a while"), here's a tip: If a cloud of dust doesn't appear behind Bowser you're interrupting the dash too soon.

 

[Zigsta]

Hmm, I was wondering why I wasn't landing fair.

 

[B!squick]

a cloud of dust... behind Bowser

Lol, mini Waft.

 

[Zigsta]

Flayl, have you tested all offstage ARs for every character?

 

[Flayl]

Nope, only the fast-fallers and the normally frame-perfect ones. Everyone else is either hit by the same things as they would be onstage, or can't be hit at all if they release really far, like ROB.

 

[Abel1994]

So is it true that when you use bowsercide that the other char can flip you over? I could of swore I heard that somewere.

 

[Flayl]

No, it's not. The opponent can influence where both the characters land. That's it.

 

[Zigsta]

I was testing offstage GRs on MK, and I discovered some cool stuff:

If you grab MK so that he's still positioned onstage but falls OFFSTAGE when you air release him, runoff fair is guaranteed.

If you grab MK and his body is hanging off the stage, double shorthop fair is guaranteed, but the timing is trickier. You essentially short hop off the stage, short hop again at ground level, then fair. From what I tested Friday night (not in frame advance, but with a friend), MK can upair Bowser if you don't time it right.

 

[Flayl]

I'll need to test it, but I don't think any special measures are needed to FAir MK offstage. In the first scenario you can defintiely just hit him with a normal dash a bit -> short hop FAir

edit: Tested and confirmed. First scenario you can always just do as normal, second scenario if you don't have have room for the dash you can edge-cancel jump a FAir (operation-wise it's really close to normal procedure) or do what Zigsta said.

 

[Zigsta]

It's definitely worth testing our air releases when we release with their feet dangling onstage as opposed to onstage--PhantomX and I discovered Wario's GR > runoff Waft on Squirtle like this, and it only works if Squirtle's feet are still onstage yet when he's air released, he gets released offstage. No one had even seen this happen before. So there might be more options out there for us.

I'll test some stuff tomorrow.

Also, Rainbow Cruise. Do we have GR > uptilt on the parts of the stage that move laterally, as long as Bowser grabs in the direction of the stage's movement? I know the Snakes discovered they have GR > uptilt on MK in a similar fashion on RC.

 

[KingKong_ad]

I would suggest you to do the grab realese with the moving platform on sv. I know we can do uair agasint a lot of character

Add RC coulb a great idea Ithink on some areas we could run usmash after an air release.

 

[MrEh]

Add RC coulb a great idea Ithink on some areas we could run usmash after an air release.

Or standing Fsmash.

 

[Matador]

Picking up Bowser as a legit co-main with Mario...partly due to this chart.

DownB is a legit follow-up from Ground Release on the characters outlined in the chart? There's nothing that they can do about it if you perform it correctly??

 

[Zigsta]

Picking up Bowser as a legit co-main with Mario...partly due to this chart.

DownB is a legit follow-up from Ground Release on the characters outlined in the chart? There's nothing that they can do about it if you perform it correctly??

They can SDI out of the first hit if they're expecting it. GR Bowser Bomb is best used as a super, super rare trump card.

 

[Flayl]

Unfortunately, no. If that were the case DownB would be the primary kill move for a lot of the releases. It's something to use once or twice a set when your opponent is at 75%-95% (depending on weight)

 

[Matador]

Ah, I see. Thank you.

 

[B!squick]

It's also for MrEh to GR > Jab into against unsuspecting Marths.

/MrEh's stalker

 

[BigLord]

*barges in uninvited*

I can vouch for GR Bowser Bomb being an awesome trump card for Bowser. In fact, just the grounded move is actually pretty good and if the opponent doesn't see it coming before the first hit, he's gonna get *****... I know I was sometimes *ahem*

Of course, never use it lots of times in a row or something. The main thing about it is that your opponent cannot expect it.

Other than that, great job on this thread, Flayl! I wish we had people like you on the Falcon boards, hehe.

 

[Dumbfire]

Down b Oos your opponent and then look at your opponents face. It's quite enjoyable.