Update Get: Mega Man Patch 1.11 Changes

[Greward]

Customs do make Mega Man better, but I don't think they are coming back, even if Nintendo did fix the problematic ones.
So any buffs to customs are probably not very relevant for Mega Man's viability

On the Diddy anti-grab bug, I have tested and I think he can't do it against any of Mega Man's non-custom moves. Tested Bair, Up Air, leaf shield, Metal Blade, Crash bomb and up smash. And pellets too but it shouldn't happen anyways.

Crash bomb I'm not completely sure though, maybe below 40% he can get hit power shield and shieldgrab to make it happen.
Didn't test tossed leaf shield, but it rarely hits twice so...

Still if it were to happen a single pellet on shield would nullify it so it's not really relevant.



With some testing I think falling up air - down tilt is pretty legit on shield. If we do it close to frame perfect and the character is tall enough I think it's unpunishable, but this definitely requires more testing. Since dtilt makes our feet intangible on frame 3 it's as good as spotdodge and 1 frame faster than roll (intangibility-wise).

On fair, it should be unpunishable on block if spaced correctly unless he has some very good punish. I'm guessing the strong hitbox should do more shieldstun too so you want to hit with that, although sourspot can set up for tech chase and jab lock at high %.
SH - bair - retreat is now way better too on block. Or maybe it's all just placebo lol

Anyone else considering dropping Megaman if he was actually nerfed and maining again next patch if he gets buffed? Kirby is awesome Ive noticed lately

It's not like he's very good atm, so nah I'll keep playing him. Imo most people who play mega man is because they love the character / gamestyle, not because they think he's super good or anything.
A buff would be great though.

If you like kirby go for it. You can play multiple characters, I usually use 4 different characters per tournament depending on MU and stage lol.

 

[Sorichuudo]

Guess i will have to test all that during matches and see if i can get away with it haha. Online is not much reliable for that tho.

It's not like he's very good atm, so nah I'll keep playing him. Imo most people who play mega man is because they love the character / gamestyle, not because they think he's super good or anything.
A buff would be great though.

If you like kirby go for it. You can play multiple characters, I usually use 4 different characters per tournament depending on MU and stage lol.

Pretty much this.
Been enjoying playing C. Falcon, think i will practice him for real instead of just using him for friendlies. He is just too fun to use.

 

[upsydwnsqr]

Idk if anyone mentioned this, but there is another nerf to Mega Man this patch. You can't have more than 1 tornado out at a time. instead of being able to fire one into another one, the old up air vanishes and a new up air replaces it. It can disappear mid animation as well. I tested this with Rush. Up air just before jumping on rush to another up air and the older tornado gets replaced by the new one.

 

[~Burst~]

Idk if anyone mentioned this, but there is another nerf to Mega Man this patch. You can't have more than 1 tornado out at a time. instead of being able to fire one into another one, the old up air vanishes and a new up air replaces it. It can disappear mid animation as well. I tested this with Rush. Up air just before jumping on rush to another up air and the older tornado gets replaced by the new one.

Always been like that.

 

[upsydwnsqr]

Always been like that.

You sure? I remember vividly having 2 nados out. I must be out of it. Placebo is real.

 

[~Burst~]

I wish it was like that I would get 60% for free from air dodge reads.

 

[xIvan321]

Burst is right. I know because I take advantage of air shooter a lot. You can only have one and its ALWAYS been like that since the game originally launched on the 3DS.

Anyone else considering dropping Megaman if he was actually nerfed and maining again next patch if he gets buffed? Kirby is awesome Ive noticed lately

I'm pretty good at perfect shielding so this won't be much of a bummer for me at all. Out of all of us me and S SanAntonioSmasher are actually thinking alike right now. At the same time I'm refusing to give up Mega Man to find the silverlinings in the shield nerfs. Maybe I'll win more due to having an already aggressive play style to begin with.

 

[Lufos]

Anyone else considering dropping Megaman if he was actually nerfed and maining again next patch if he gets buffed? Kirby is awesome Ive noticed lately

Depending on how much it affects us... I love him and his playstyle, it fits me like a glove, but if my style of mega gets nerfed too much I might spend more time with my lil'mac instead

 

[Mega-Spider]

Anyone else considering dropping Megaman if he was actually nerfed and maining again next patch if he gets buffed? Kirby is awesome Ive noticed lately

Drop Mega Man? You couldn't get me to do that even if you payed me.
I main Kirby; I think he's fairly good, and can cover some of Rock's harder match ups like Fox. Just keep in mind some Copy Abilities like Little Mac's don't turn the MU in his favor.

 

[uncaDon]

Is bair safer on shield now? I also wonder about autocancelled dair on a target shielding a crash bomb..

 

[Mega-Spider]

Burst is right. I know because I take advantage of air shooter a lot. You can only have one and its ALWAYS been like that since the game originally launched on the 3DS.


I'm pretty good at perfect shielding so this won't be much of a bummer for me at all. Out of all of us me and S SanAntonioSmasher are actually thinking alike right now. At the same time I'm refusing to give up Mega Man to find the silverlinings in the shield nerfs. Maybe I'll win more due to having an already aggressive play style to begin with.

I actually think improving our aggressive style is beneficial. Yes, we fair better on defensive play, but seeing as how this patch is starting to allow aggressive play to dominate, we need to balance both defensive and aggressive gameplay. Keep our defensive strats, but develop our aggressive style. Can you imagine how much more of a threat Mega Man could be if both his styles were equally developed? That would be awesome.

Is bair safer on shield now?

Yes, it is a lot safer on shield.

 

[uncaDon]

Nice. I often just RAR bairs on people approaching me without thinking and now maybe I'll get punished less :D

 

[Fenrir VII]

http://smashboards.com/threads/magical-enigmatic-land-1-1-1-patch-notes.419067/page-25#post-20234192


Looks like most of our projectiles now have less hitlag on shield. As a frame data scrub, I'm not entirely sure what this means except uair is likely not safer than before on shield. That said, it tends to poke the shield or stop a grab attempt, so it was safeish because of parameters not related to shield stun before...

Dair isn't on this list... I'm not sure whether that means the hitlag is the same (and thus the move is better on shield because standard shield stun is higher), or if it was just forgotten, but it should still be fine.
Metal Blade is also missing... same story, but I have a HARD time believing that was forgotten. In theory, this makes MB > run up grab or FH MB > grab a bit more reliable.

 

[Nu~]

The list doesn't account for items. That's why metal blade isn't there

 

[SanAntonioSmasher]

Hmm ya itd be nice to understand how these numbers correlate to frame data. Also, what about lemons?

To be fair, I think most of megas projectiles should cause minimal shield stun. However, fsmash and crash bomb explosions should be exceptions. From a balance perspective as well as what would "make sense" both should cause significant shield stun as well as shield pressure. With how many characters can shield break now, I think a crashbomb explosion plus full to near full fsmash should break shield.

 

[xIvan321]

I actually think improving our aggressive style is beneficial. Yes, we fair better on defensive play, but seeing as how this patch is starting to allow aggressive play to dominate, we need to balance both defensive and aggressive gameplay. Keep our defensive strats, but develop our aggressive style. Can you imagine how much more of a threat Mega Man could be if both his styles were equally developed? That would be awesome.

We'll get there I'd think. Mega Man has less reliance on shields anyways, and its not like I'd wait for a person to make a move every single time. At the same time other characters can't do that stuff back to you for example Mario was also pretty good at that. His fire ball is a bit improved for this but I'd also learn to parry/power shield a lot more often.

 

[Mega-Spider]

We'll get there I'd think. Mega Man has less reliance on shields anyways, and its not like I'd wait for a person to make a move every single time. At the same time other characters can't do that stuff back to you for example Mario was also pretty good at that. His fire ball is a bit improved for this but I'd also learn to parry/power shield a lot more often.

I've been using my shield less and have resorted to short-hopping. It's better since it doesn't make me a sitting duck when I shield. I also feel that mind games need to be implemented a lot more since some of my biggest victories have been from mind games. For example, throwing a diagonal Metal Blade, they air dodge into me, and then U-Tilt for the win!

 

[p1ay6ack]

after this update, i've been full hopping and throwing metal blade down as my neutral. I'm less on the ground and more in the air, landing my combos on reading my opps movements and relying more on my spacing. Ive been using b reverse as mixing up my landing options and leaf shield to come down with a grab. it's pretty cool. against slower charchters who dont have a good netural ive been using crash bomb and using my projectiles to wrack up the dmg. it's pretty cool, considering sheilds have been nerfed, my projectiles are better now and i feel like Snake using my crash bomb as a sticky along with my other projectiles

 

[CopShowGuy]

Anyone else considering dropping Megaman if he was actually nerfed and maining again next patch if he gets buffed? Kirby is awesome Ive noticed lately

Not for a moment. I'm sticking with him.

 

[Rush 2112]

I seem to recall that pre-patch the only projectile that would destroy DHD's clay thingy was Fsmash. But I think I had a match post-patch where my MB was destroying that. So maybe clay thing got HP reduction, MB got stronger somehow, or I'm mistaken. Don't have the means to confirm this right now.

 

[xIvan321]

I seem to recall that pre-patch the only projectile that would destroy DHD's clay thingy was Fsmash. But I think I had a match post-patch where my MB was destroying that. So maybe clay thing got HP reduction, MB got stronger somehow, or I'm mistaken. Don't have the means to confirm this right now.

Been there, done that. Meta Blades always break through clay prepatch, its just hard to angle it. There's a weird rule on what it can be destroyed by and the one projectile that doesn't destroy it in our arsenal is the leaf shield. All it does is pass through it.

 

[p1ay6ack]

Been there, done that. Meta Blades always break through clay prepatch, its just hard to angle it. There's a weird rule on what it can be destroyed by and the one projectile that doesn't destroy it in our arsenal is the leaf shield. All it does is pass through it.

it might also be cuz you activated metal blade at the beginning of the clay frames start up. correct me if im wrong but the clay starts off as a weak projectile, then as it progresses in its arc it gains more power. if metal blade clashes with the beginning frames of clay, metal blade has more power and beats clay.

btw, im curious if anyone knows any lemon jab lock setups? ive been getting them frequently on for glory and im always thinking that i could be doing alot more.

also, i think itd be good to explore the meta of fast falling throwing metal blade downwards from the air. megaman gets alot of momentum from it and megaman slides a bit along with fast falling lemons into a reverse movement.

 

[xIvan321]

So after a while of forcing myself to DITCIT > Up Smash, it seems the shield changes favor this combination. I still keep poking players very often. I think the reason why is because with shield stun it repositions the players to an exposed area causing it to poke. It never did this before ever so I'm glad I guess.

And yeah aggression seems a lot more fun now. I'll be playing a local tomorrow and seeing a lot more variety. I'll probably have a better developed opinion by then, but I don't think this character is really screwed so far.

I fought a Charizards today and this change definitely is hurting him a lot. Its bad enough that we already jab lock him if he uses side b on our shield, but there isn't enough shield stun to compensate for his moves, thus still being capable of locking him. Its hilarious especially considering he relied a lot on his really good OoS options.

 

[p1ay6ack]

you wouldn't happen to be going to the Vacaville local, are you? (i'm from nor cal too)

 

[SanAntonioSmasher]

after this update, i've been full hopping and throwing metal blade down as my neutral. I'm less on the ground and more in the air, landing my combos on reading my opps movements and relying more on my spacing. Ive been using b reverse as mixing up my landing options and leaf shield to come down with a grab. it's pretty cool. against slower charchters who dont have a good netural ive been using crash bomb and using my projectiles to wrack up the dmg. it's pretty cool, considering sheilds have been nerfed, my projectiles are better now and i feel like Snake using my crash bomb as a sticky along with my other projectiles

This is how I've been playing for a long time now. I have always sucked with shielding, and MM doesn't have the best oos options anyways. Throw in some rushes from stage and you can really mix people up and keep good spacing both vertically and horizontally. I connect at least 3-4 down throw blades into backairs in 2 stock matches each game. I feel mega man has an advtange in the air against much of the cast with his aerial mobility, disjoints, and mixups. Whereas on the ground he is at a big disadvantage. Force people into the air and chase you, and they will struggle.

 

[Mega-Spider]

This is how I've been playing for a long time now. I have always sucked with shielding, and MM doesn't have the best oos options anyways. Throw in some rushes from stage and you can really mix people up and keep good spacing both vertically and horizontally. I connect at least 3-4 down throw blades into backairs in 2 stock matches each game. I feel mega man has an advtange in the air against much of the cast with his aerial mobility, disjoints, and mixups. Whereas on the ground he is at a big disadvantage. Force people into the air and chase you, and they will struggle.

So could you say that Mega Man... prefers the air?

 

[CopShowGuy]

I wouldn't say that...

 

[SanAntonioSmasher]

I think inherently most characters are stronger on the ground. However, comparatively I would argue mega man is better in the air than most characters, and worse on the ground than a large portion. Lacking a true ftilt, dtilt, and utilt is very detrimental to his ground game, which is why i think staying mobile in the air is so important.

So, I do think it is too your advantage to keep the battle more aerial. It's got to be in your terms tho. Keeping it mostly in neutral. If you're getting juggled or lose control mega man isn't great in the air. I'm by no means a top player tho, so take it with a grain of salt.

 

[Doval]

Could someone help explain why Yoshi's Dair locks people in their shields while Mega Man's Usmash doesn't?

Pre-1.1.1 hitlag modifiers didn't apply to shielding characters; the defender always suffered x1 hit lag. Up Smash has a x0 hit lag modifier. Before, a shielding opponent would suffer x1 hit lag and freeze in place while Mega Man had x0 hit lag and not freeze. Now both characters have x0 hit lag, and the increase in shield stun wasn't enough to compensate for the lack of hit lag frames on the defender.

I'm waiting for people to confirm exactly what is happening...

What we do know:
-Shield stun INCREASED across the board.
-Power-shield now decreases shield stun.
-Hitlag modifiers have changed... meaning electric attacks, etc don't stun the attacker as much
-Not sure what effect the shield stun overlapping min shield does
-Not sure how projectiles are being accounted for now

I don't think it's been proven yet that perfect shield decreases shield stun. I'd be surprised if it did. At any rate, it's harder to do now.

http://smashboards.com/threads/magical-enigmatic-land-1-1-1-patch-notes.419067/page-25#post-20234192


Looks like most of our projectiles now have less hitlag on shield. As a frame data scrub, I'm not entirely sure what this means except uair is likely not safer than before on shield. That said, it tends to poke the shield or stop a grab attempt, so it was safeish because of parameters not related to shield stun before...

Dair isn't on this list... I'm not sure whether that means the hitlag is the same (and thus the move is better on shield because standard shield stun is higher), or if it was just forgotten, but it should still be fine.
Metal Blade is also missing... same story, but I have a HARD time believing that was forgotten. In theory, this makes MB > run up grab or FH MB > grab a bit more reliable.

If I'm reading Dantarion's dump at Master Core right, Hard Knuckle has a x1 hit lag multiplier so it's not nerfed. Lemons seem to have a x1 multiplier from frames 1-4, x0.75 from 5-8, and x1 from 9-24, so they now deal slightly less (probably 1 frame) shield hit lag from frames 5-8. However that's a very specific window of time and they also deal 3 more frames of shield stun now.

Master Core doesn't have items so someone'll have to record Metal Blade before and after and see.

 

[Sorichuudo]

What about shadow blade, anyone knows if it got affected by the shield stun changes?

 

[MintyFlesh]

Hey guys, I haven't had a chance to play any smash since the newest patch, and I'm not much of a number cruncher. Has anybody confirmed whether or not the new patch has buffed or nerfed Mega's projectiles on shield?

 

[Sorichuudo]

Hey guys, I haven't had a chance to play any smash since the newest patch, and I'm not much of a number cruncher. Has anybody confirmed whether or not the new patch has buffed or nerfed Mega's projectiles on shield?

Check out Doval's reply to Fenrir's post above. We did kinda got nerfed in a few projectiles, and some of our options with shield are no longer usable, so a few MU's will get harder, especially against characters who got buffed thanks to the shieldstun changes.

 

[Red Shirt KRT]

I saw this on another thread. This is the data from a well known Japanese data mining source (at least that is the word on the street and it looks legit)

It shows the frames for shield stun for projectiles and normal attacks. Also it shows what they were pre patch where normal and projectiles had the same shield stun.

Sorry it is small.

Looks like lemons got a shield stun buff of 2 frames which is good for lemons also item thrown MB had a 2 frame buff. However most of our smashes and other projectiles (especially stronger ones have barely more stun ~1 or 2 frames only)

Generally this is a nerf for us considering our reliance on projectiles but this should help out our lemon zoning game more( yay more of a reason to spam more lemons)

This makes our offensive/aggressive/approach game slightly better but we have such crappy frame data I don't think it will be that much different for us given our laggy aerials.

Our uair is better on shields giving us a few extra frames to hit a shielding opponent with another Uair.

So we gotta adapt to this new playstyle.

 

[~Burst~]

I doubt this is true. Regardless, the loss of hitlag on most of our projectiles makes any shield stun added null.
Jab had shield stun pre patch which is why I find this hard to believe.
Uair is not better on shield idk why people are saying that.

 

[glenn]

I saw this on another thread. This is the data from a well known Japanese data mining source (at least that is the word on the street and it looks legit)

It shows the frames for shield stun for projectiles and normal attacks. Also it shows what they were pre patch where normal and projectiles had the same shield stun.

Sorry it is small.

Looks like lemons got a shield stun buff of 2 frames which is good for lemons also item thrown MB had a 2 frame buff. However most of our smashes and other projectiles (especially stronger ones have barely more stun ~1 or 2 frames only)

That thread has some interesting replies, regarding the shield stun, projectile calculations:
"As of 1.1.1 though, a shielding player receives either the reduced/increased hitlag of the modifier for the move (for non-projectiles, the attacker and defender now receive equal hitlag on all shielded moves)"

"Since many projectiles have a <1 modifier which used to be ignored by a shielding opponent, now that opponent receives the decrease in hitlag from those <1 hitlag moves. So overall, projectiles are less safe in this patch."

"I think pellets had something like a .3x hitlag modifier, so the decreased hitlag now on shield makes them much less safe in that aspect"

I'm not sure about that last one, as it seems like Doval's findings suggest pellets have a much better modifier. So... low damage projectiles got a buff? (provided the modifier isn't fractional)

 

[ENKER]

Someone needs to make a video explaining this. It's so confusing to me, especially when some people say our projectiles were buffed and other say they were nerfed.

Regardless, I'm still going to play Mega Man. He's my Smash soulmate. :D

 

[p1ay6ack]

someone should def make a video. video should give that proof if nerf or buff

 

[Greward]

Pellets and up air already did just 1 frame of shieldstun, so they can't be nerfed. I mean, you can't do less than 1 frame of shieldstun lol.

Fsmash is probably nerfed. God why is this move so bad.

Metal Blade might be the same or buffed. Crash bomb and leaf shield I've read that they're nerfed shieldstun-wise. Hard knuckle is probably buffed? I don't know.

Still bair / fair are better so that's good. Our usmash out of shield got hit a lot, with the shieldstun patch I can't use it as much, which kinda sucks.
I think overall this is not a good patch for Mega, he just doesn't get really better from the shieldstun change and some other characters do. So as always I'm hoping for buffs in the next patch lol.

 

[Sorichuudo]

Still, losing Usmash oos for a slightly better fair/bair really doesn't seem like that good of a trade, and that's without considering our others projectiles.

Ugh, LS got nerfed? Guess the only buff we will see in the next patch is another micro-change to it.

 

[ENKER]

How safe are Fair and Bair on shield now? Like, if we jump and throw out a early Fair or Bair on shield, can we land and space ourselves before getting punished against at least some of the cast?