Update 1.10! Changes? Predictions? Observations?

[drakeirving]

she has some of the best sheild pressure in the game after yoshi and sheik

I disagree. Her shield pressure can be good and Pound is fantastic in that regard in that it forces an option on low shields, but her pressure lacks many things. You can't really combo pressure or otherwise have moves that actually overwhelm the opponent. Jiggs is often too slow to capitalize after a first hit, which means the opponent can escape. On top of this, her range is pretty pathetic and her safety on shield is very lacking. If the opponent can grab or escape there is no pressure. Meanwhile, having zero options out of throws means there isn't a massive drawback to even getting grabbed from holding shield, whereas characters like Luigi and Ness instill the threat of combos if you just shield, which means people will avoid it, creating pressure. Jiggs gets a grab and maybe gets 16% with two punches and a throw, which is good, but that doesn't create pressure.

still has the wall of pain

Not to the same extent at all; the frame data on fair and how it interacts with knockback and time for the opponent to act is worse than how it was with chaining bairs. In most cases you have to hit with late fair to get a combo in, which immediately makes it a harder option when half the point is getting right up on the opponent's ass and driving them into the wall with moves. You can do it, but the ranges and characters are much more narrow and often they have to do something wrong for it to work. Of course she stlil has "a" wall of pain, but it's a bit of a misnomer to call it "the" wall of pain.

 

[drakeirving]

also just to put this out there if we had a faster dtilt with maybe less kb, we'd have great poking -> trip setups like luigi does now

 

[MarioMeteor]

No move is bad. It just needs to be used at the right moment at the right time. Sing, Rest, Smash Attacks, and Throw. Pressure with aerials and use smash attacks for that unexpected blow. That's how I won my games.

No one should have absolutely nothing to worry about. If I were blunt, I guess I would say that y'all need to stop sucking and play harder. I can't judge, but everyone should put their effort to the max. B]

Edit: If anyone is concerned about jigglypuff having no changes, you don't have to sulk about it in here only. Message NoA and give them feedback. Make the suggestion reasonable and etc if you really want jiggs to have a better future. That's what people are doing for samus.

http://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/ask

Oh no, there are definitely moves that are bad. Down smash, Rollout, Sing, down tilt. Those are just off the top of my head.

 

[Vinylic.]

Oh no, there are definitely moves that are bad. Down smash, Rollout, Sing, down tilt. Those are just off the top of my head.

You pointed out every move I use frequently, with rollout being the least used. Down smash can be effective against certain characters, like using it when your opponent grabs the ledge a second time. Their chances of recovery can turn slim.

I use sing to catch my opponents whether they spot dodge, roll, or try to go back on ground. Now that every roll and spot dodge leaves characters more vulnerable by 1 frame, I feel a bit more confident.

I never saw any problems with down tilt, but I can see how rollout is not as useful. Still, it can be used for recovery and such. Bonus points for using custom rollout so you don't collide with your opponent and fall to your death.

 

[MisterDom]

Oh no, there are definitely moves that are bad. Down smash, Rollout, Sing, down tilt. Those are just off the top of my head.

I like all those moves...

Down tilt for punishing grabs or attacks that don't hit Jiggs

Down smash for ledge trump punishws

Rollout for FD and camping. Also recovery, and somewhat stylish ledge cancels and ledge guards (don't ask).

Sing for easy hard reads and punishes. Than a fully charged down smash to ledge guard, or rest.

 

[Vinylic.]

as far as i noticed a huge change was that now you can't crouch under wii fii trainer grab anymore because they extended it's hitbox... Is this confirmed ? i couldn't test it myself.

She can now grab a crouched kirby, so it is very likely that she can even grab a crouched jigglypuff.

 

[MisterDom]

She can now grab a crouched kirby, so it is very likely that she can even grab a crouched jigglypuff.

Is it me, it everyone getting better grabs? At first, I even though Jigglypuff had a better grab range, but than I realized that that was just hope.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I like all those moves...

Down tilt for punishing grabs or attacks that don't hit Jiggs

Down smash for ledge trump punishws

Rollout for FD and camping. Also recovery, and somewhat stylish ledge cancels and ledge guards (don't ask).

Sing for easy hard reads and punishes. Than a fully charged down smash to ledge guard, or rest.

You can like them, that doesn't make them good. I like using Sing when I'm just bull****ting around for laughs, but I wouldn't dare use it in a serious match unless I'm Psycho Mantis or some ****.

You pointed out every move I use frequently, with rollout being the least used. Down smash can be effective against certain characters, like using it when your opponent grabs the ledge a second time. Their chances of recovery can turn slim.

I use sing to catch my opponents whether they spot dodge, roll, or try to go back on ground. Now that every roll and spot dodge leaves characters more vulnerable by 1 frame, I feel a bit more confident.

I never saw any problems with down tilt, but I can see how rollout is not as useful. Still, it can be used for recovery and such. Bonus points for using custom rollout so you don't collide with your opponent and fall to your death.

Honestly, your opponents can't be too good if they let all that happen to them.

 

[Vinylic.]

Hey, nobody's perfect. They don't really expect us to use it anyways since they only think about how the majority of puff players tend to avoid doing these moves. That's usually the first time, and then they reconsider afterwards.

It amuses me how many people go like, "What!? How does that move even work!?"

 

[Puff-Man]

I want Puff to have less landing lag on her aerials. Puff in my opinion is supposed to be a high risk high reward character and that is why I want her Melee rest to be back. But that would be too OP so that is why I think Rest should be a kill or die move. For example if Puff misses the rest she will be 1.5x light and she will sleep for a longer time but if she hits with it at 28% or higher the opponent dies and she gets a star KO.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Uh no that sounds dumb and doing all that for one move?

 

[Puff-Man]

Uh no that sounds dumb and doing all that for one move?

Yes. So you would rather have a mediocre rest or a broken cheap ass rest? There is nothing wrong with doing many things to a move.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

The things you wanted is rediculous actually.

 

[Puff-Man]

The things you wanted is rediculous actually.

Why is it ridiculous? Before stating something you have too proof it so you do not look like a ****ing idiot.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Yea.....I'm making myself look like an idiot.....yet look what you posted....smart one...considering how you worded it too?
Jiggs is soo light and for using one move, you want to significantly decrease her weight more? That right there is stupid.
Why should it also be the only attack to always Star KO?

Maybe you should get real with what buffs/changes sshe needs that are simple, yet reasonable

 

[PandaEffect]

Why is it ridiculous? Before stating something you have too proof it so you do not look like a ****ing idiot.

Rest already kills early enough, in fact it kills at 28% on SV Mario with no DI when at full rage.
Making its weaknesses even greater for a bit more kill power when the issue with it is landing it in the first place and not landing it early that's the problem is silly

Edit: I would like a non-broken tier kill throw as powerful as Marth's let's say to have another way to end stocks more reliably. A Combo throw would make me wet myself just thinking of how smooth puff would look with late nair to jab to grab to follow ups or air dodge baits

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

Rest already kills early enough, in fact it kills at 28% on SV Mario with no DI when at full rage.
Making its weaknesses even greater for a bit more kill power when the issue with it is landing it in the first place and not landing it early that's the problem is silly

Thank you, I bet he will understand now.

 

[MisterDom]

Rest already kills early enough, in fact it kills at 28% on SV Mario with no DI when at full rage.
Making its weaknesses even greater for a bit more kill power when the issue with it is landing it in the first place and not landing it early that's the problem is silly

Plus, the melee combos dont work as well in smash 4, so I'll just stick to regular rest, but the idea isn't far fetched

 

[Desu~]

I would be happy with even faster sing startup

faster sing startup

faster sing

sing

Patch 1.11. Make it happen.

 

[Puff-Man]

Rest already kills early enough, in fact it kills at 28% on SV Mario with no DI when at full rage.
Making its weaknesses even greater for a bit more kill power when the issue with it is landing it in the first place and not landing it early that's the problem is silly

Edit: I would like a non-broken tier kill throw as powerful as Marth's let's say to have another way to end stocks more reliably. A Combo throw would make me wet myself just thinking of how smooth puff would look with late nair to jab to grab to follow ups or air dodge baits

Rest kills at around 55% It is not that early for a move that is really risky and hard to land. And most players know how to DI.

 

[Puff-Man]

Yea.....I'm making myself look like an idiot.....yet look what you posted....smart one...considering how you worded it too?
Jiggs is soo light and for using one move, you want to significantly decrease her weight more? That right there is stupid.
Why should it also be the only attack to always Star KO?

Maybe you should get real with what buffs/changes sshe needs that are simple, yet reasonable

She only gets her weight decreased when she MISSES the rest. You are telling me that Puff shouldn't get killed for using a move that kills extremely early until at higher percents? The reason why that was not broken in melee because melee was extremely fast, but I take back that star KO thing because Sakurai said that Star KOs cannot be done in the last seconds.

 

[FrankTheStud]

Better to remain unchanged than to eat a nerf!

 

[PandaEffect]

Rest kills at around 55% It is not that early for a move that is really risky and hard to land. And most players know how to DI.

DI only affects rest by 3-2% in most cases, It's strong enough.

 

[drakeirving]

Rest kills at around 55% It is not that early for a move that is really risky and hard to land. And most players know how to DI.

Um, then why are you pushing for earlier kills rather than pushing for better Rest options and setups. Earlier kills in a two-stock game like Smash 4 is absurd to begin with -- even Melee Puff didn't have this sort of dynamic where it's either you get KOs really early, die really early or nothing happens; one of Jiggs main passive pressures is the threat of Rest, and that is pervasive throughout her entire gameplan. By giving her more options to Rest from, that pressure extends into these options. You don't just want to avoid some hard read and raw Rest, you want to avoid getting jab reset, avoid getting upthrowed and a bad DI follow, avoid getting into a position for easy tech chases, and so on. Killing earlier and earlier isn't what Rest is about, it's about an extremely fast, early kill option relative to the rest of the cast that is hard to land and has high risk on whiff. The very natural extension is for options to minimize the possibility of whiffs.

Look at Gimr with 9s all day, how that extends throughout his gameplan, how others feel about it and how it's set up. It's a comparable scenario; the main differences are that 9s are RNG, it's slower, it has a larger hitbox that's disjointed, and G&W has setups. It's already in a healthy place because there are setups.

The disadvantage of Star KOs also has nothing to do with getting a win in the last few seconds, either. What are you expecting, a Rest offstage into Star KO where you die first?

 

[MarioMeteor]

Really, as nice as a Rest buff would be, I don't think it's essential. What she needs first and foremost is a reliable KO move that doesn't require any bull**** or edgeguarding to land. I would like to be up throw. Then maybe a reliable way to start combos, like decreasing the knockback on up tilt or down throw. Really, once she has those two, she doesn't need much more. Maybe a tiny weight buff or air speed increase to make up for how retardedly early she dies because of Rage. I really wish down air autocancelled like in Melee, too.

 

[MisterDom]

Has anyone brought up that Jigglypuff's pummel when she grabs someone does 3% instead of 2. The buffs are real...

 

[Jiggly]

Has anyone brought up that Jigglypuff's pummel when she grabs someone does 3% instead of 2. The buffs are real...

Its always done 3% -_-

 

[MarioMeteor]

Has anyone brought up that Jigglypuff's pummel when she grabs someone does 3% instead of 2. The buffs are real...

Oh, you mean like it's been doing since Melee?

 

[MisterDom]

Oh...

It's always been doing 2 for me as long as I can remember :/

Oops

 

[MarioMeteor]

Oh...

It's always been doing 2 for me as long as I can remember :/

Oops

It was probably staled. I can't blame you though, cause Jigglypuff's pummel is very abusable. And entertaining, just watching her smack the **** out of the opponent.

 

[SRUFUS3D]

Sigh poor Jiggly, she needs something. A combo throw, a stronger rest, a bigger hitbox on up air, and less landing lag on Dair, would help substantially.

 

[TOGOpuff]

ask for a stronger rest is dumb and wouldn't change the problems...

Making Dthrow a combo startup in the other hand would be great. Specially if it did damage (like Meta Knight's dthrow or melee jiggs (not sure about brawl, sorry been a long time) ...

Because honestly that 0-death combo starting with falling upair isn't the best of the options.. Has anyone used it in a single match? Unless it is for a lag move punish i don't have the courage to approach with a falling upair. If anyone has videos of this being viable / can teach me the setups i'm all ears.

less kb on uptilt would be nice as well >uptilt > uptilt > dair would be nice. specially if 0% we could dthrow > uptilt or falling upair > uptilt > dair.

That would be a sick gamechanger for puff.

 

[Jiggly]

ask for a stronger rest is dumb and wouldn't change the problems...

Making Dthrow a combo startup in the other hand would be great. Specially if it did damage (like Meta Knight's dthrow or melee jiggs (not sure about brawl, sorry been a long time) ...

Because honestly that 0-death combo starting with falling upair isn't the best of the options.. Has anyone used it in a single match? Unless it is for a lag move punish i don't have the courage to approach with a falling upair. If anyone has videos of this being viable / can teach me the setups i'm all ears.

less kb on uptilt would be nice as well >uptilt > uptilt > dair would be nice. specially if 0% we could dthrow > uptilt or falling upair > uptilt > dair.

That would be a sick gamechanger for puff.

I've used it twice in matches. FFUair isn't reliable at all lol. On most characters you can get rising full hop fair > FFUair. Only problem is, it can be hard on light characters to get the dair after the utilt. Also, I wouldn't want less KB on utilt as it is actually a good kill move in our set.

 

[TOGOpuff]

I've used it twice in matches. FFUair isn't reliable at all lol. On most characters you can get rising full hop fair > FFUair. Only problem is, it can be hard on light characters to get the dair after the utilt. Also, I wouldn't want less KB on utilt as it is actually a good kill move in our set.

isn't it a kill move only at 120% + (180%+ on bowser, DDD and (shield) Shulk) ?
if not i've been neglecting a good move.

 

[The Puffer]

I would love to see Rest get a % heal like many other moves, something around 5% if you miss and 10% if landed.

Also, increased KB on U-Air would be a lot useful, and if Rollout could be auto canceled after hitting and opponent, that would be wonderful.

 

[Dee-SmashinBoss]

isn't it a kill move only at 120% + (180%+ on bowser, DDD and (shield) Shulk) ?
if not i've been neglecting a good move.

But its not too reliable considering its garbage range, slight startup and can't be combined into

 

[Jiggly]

isn't it a kill move only at 120% + (180%+ on bowser, DDD and (shield) Shulk) ?
if not i've been neglecting a good move.

for how quick it is, and how people dont expect it, it's pretty good. Often times you wont get the kill by 125%, so it's a great option. Also, at kill percent you can condition them to expect 2-3 utilts. And then to mix it up, do a whiffed utilt, they will drop shield expecting another whiff, and an easy punish, but after one utilt go for the bair and fake them out and snag the kill. Utilt is a really good tool that puff's need to use more. And Dair, but that's a different story

 

[Dapplegonger]

for how quick it is, and how people dont expect it, it's pretty good. Often times you wont get the kill by 125%, so it's a great option. Also, at kill percent you can condition them to expect 2-3 utilts. And then to mix it up, do a whiffed utilt, they will drop shield expecting another whiff, and an easy punish, but after one utilt go for the bair and fake them out and snag the kill. Utilt is a really good tool that puff's need to use more. And Dair, but that's a different story

What are some of the utilities of d-air? I use d-air -> f-air, as well as ledgehop -> d-air. I know d-air can combo into Rest as well. Are there any other good uses for it?

 

[phantom man]

Not sure, but I think bair has more knockback.

 

[PandaEffect]

Not sure, but I think bair has more knockback.

There were no changes to puff other than the universal 1 frame nerf on spotdodges and rolls.