Upair To Dair Kill Confirm

[OathToAwesome]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v77nCM_clKk&app=desktop
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v77nCM_clKk&app=desktop
Fons, a PR player in my state, made this video recently. Has anyone on the Mario boards heard of this setup or tested it out before? It seems incredibly good (consistent kills off a grab at 60, regardless of DI). Our Facebook group has already proved extensively that you cannot airdodge out of the dair, so this seems like a crazy-good option. Thoughts?

 

[DJBor]

No. Not again. Patch 1.1.7 confirmed?

 

[FUEGO!]

someone kill this thread. Now!

 

[Seal]

This is not as powerful as it seems because most characters can get out of it. Anyone who has a f3 or faster airdodge or attack can escape or you can just SDI out:

However, I'd like to see this extensive proof you claim that shows it can't be airdodged out of, to be sure I'm not wrong.

 

[Combos4Dayz]

Not to mention most of those don't even look like true combos.

 

[OathToAwesome]

This is not as powerful as it seems because most characters can get out of it. Anyone who has a f3 or faster airdodge or attack can escape or you can just SDI out:

However, I'd like to see this extensive proof you claim that shows it can't be airdodged out of, to be sure I'm not wrong.

You cannot airdodge out of this. If Mario has over 70% rage (and like I said, my state's FB group tested this), only frame ONE options can escape. Nothing else can. Unfortunately, it really IS that powerful.

EDIT: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1634089176866119/permalink/1736587673282935/ Here's the thread. Basically, even though the first five hits of dair have set knockback, rage still multiplies the amount, which gives the move enough knockback (and thus enough hitstun) that only frame 1 moves can escape. I'll try to show off an example in-game later today.

 

[Seal]

You cannot airdodge out of this. If Mario has over 70% rage (and like I said, my state's FB group tested this), only frame ONE options can escape. Nothing else can. Unfortunately, it really IS that powerful.

EDIT: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1634089176866119/permalink/1736587673282935/ Here's the thread. Basically, even though the first five hits of dair have set knockback, rage still multiplies the amount, which gives the move enough knockback (and thus enough hitstun) that only frame 1 moves can escape. I'll try to show off an example in-game later today.

So rage is required then? The videos claims at 0:40 that rage isn't required. Or is that only referring to it not being required for characters with no f3 options?

 

[OathToAwesome]

So rage is required then? The videos claims at 0:40 that rage isn't required. Or is that only referring to it not being required for characters with no f3 options?

I'll have to ask Fons to be sure, but that's correct. He also might be referring to the fact that it kills even without rage, as long as your opponent either cannot escape or doesn't know that they can. It's still completely true on most of the cast with rage, regardless.

 

[BSP]

You cannot airdodge out of this. If Mario has over 70% rage (and like I said, my state's FB group tested this), only frame ONE options can escape. Nothing else can. Unfortunately, it really IS that powerful.

EDIT: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1634089176866119/permalink/1736587673282935/ Here's the thread. Basically, even though the first five hits of dair have set knockback, rage still multiplies the amount, which gives the move enough knockback (and thus enough hitstun) that only frame 1 moves can escape. I'll try to show off an example in-game later today.

This is partially correct.

The amount of rage mario needs in order for Dair to true combo on a character depends on that character. IDK where you guys got 70% from.

Mario needs 132% on him in order for Sonic to be unable to air dodge the last hit of Dair. He only needs 67% to trap Cloud, and only 53% to trap Peach. It varies, and I haven't seen a pattern yet. Until Mario hits that specific % against that character, Dair is never true on them (exceptions: characters with F4 or slower airdodges with no F1 armor/invulnerability option)..

Mario needs 93% on him in order for DK to be unable to spinnning Kong out of Dair. He only needs 36% on him to trap Rosalina. Mewtwo is lighter than Rosa, but he needs 102% to trap him. Game and Watch is 102% too. Fox is 108%. As you can see, no discernible pattern. Each character will have to be tested individually.

Like you said, F1 options can always escape. Little Mac, Ryu, Jigglypuff, and Bayonetta appear to be safe from this. Everyone else is screwed once Mario gets enough rage.

 

[Combos4Dayz]

But by the time Mario has enough rage, Uair will knock the opponent too far to chain Dair, voiding this combo as a viable option.

I mean, Uair > Dair is not true at any kill percent, as Dair only seems to kill around 120-140% (taking stale move negation, weight, and DI into account).
Dair will, however, kill at 100-120% with a lot of rage (100-150% depending on stale move negation, weight and DI as well).

Either way, Uair cannot chain into Dair for a kill confirm, not easily anyways. The opponent should not touch the controller at all for this to work.

>inb4 "b-b-but the video"
I think it's fake, probably messed with the damage ratio, used no/bad DI, or something else to make it look real.

Also:

Spoiler

It's bait so Sakurai will nerf Mario.

 

[BSP]

But by the time Mario has enough rage, Uair will knock the opponent too far to chain Dair, voiding this combo as a viable option.

I mean, Uair > Dair is not true at any kill percent, as Dair only seems to kill around 120-140% (taking stale move negation, weight, and DI into account).
Dair will, however, kill at 100-120% with a lot of rage (100-150% depending on stale move negation, weight and DI as well).

Either way, Uair cannot chain into Dair for a kill confirm, not easily anyways. The opponent should not touch the controller at all for this to work.

>inb4 "b-b-but the video"
I think it's fake, probably messed with the damage ratio, used no/bad DI, or something else to make it look real.

Also:

Spoiler

It's bait so Sakurai will nerf Mario.

No, it's definitely true barring good SDI from the opponent, and it is a true KO confirm at the right %s. Mario needs a lot of rage though.

If Mario's Uair chains are true, I'm going to say Uair -> Dair is true since Dair is 1 frame slower than Uair.

A note on the SDI escape: I don't know if that will work if Mario starts the Dair from under you without any momentum carrying him upwards. Also the tester didn't try rage Dair, which could make a difference for all we know.