Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[Idon]

I knew someone would bring up something to the effect of "it's not practical". Actually, anything is practical if you have enough manpower and resources. Look at the pyramids of Giza. Now look back at Smash Brothers. Don't tell me something can't be done because it's too hard.

Well one was built on the shoulders of hundreds of slaves over the course of dozens of years and another is a videogame developed by a studio that needs to release it and turn a profit by the end of the fiscal year.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I knew someone would bring up something to the effect of "it's not practical". Actually, anything is practical if you have enough manpower and resources. Look at the pyramids of Giza. Now look back at Smash Brothers. Don't tell me something can't be done because it's too hard.

I mean... for one... the pyramids were made in impractically harsh conditions and there’s still a lot of uncertainty about whether or not slaves played a massive role in their building.

Two, Nintendo doesn’t have infinite resources to throw on any one project and has deadlines that need to be met. You can accomplish anything with enough money and time, but those are finite resources for Nintendo. Plus, they already put in 76 characters and 103 stages at launch, they were clearly already working their asses off and a bit strapped for time if Piranha Plant is any indication.

Third, and most importantly, there’s no good incentive to bring them back. Few people cared about them and they brought little attention to the game in a positive way. If you’re going to spend the stupid amount of time to design custom specials around 77 unique characters, you need to get something out of it. I’m almost certain that Sakurai looked at the receptions that custom moves got and understood devoting time to that particular idea was a waste of resource when it didn’t bring enough tangible benefit to the game. It’s a cost analysis sort of thing and there was not a ton of demand for custom moves coming into Ultimate. You can use those resources on other aspects of the game, or hell, this might be the scenario where straight up Echoes would be easier to make and be a decently comparable trade-off. You put developmental resources towards something that’s going to benefit the game the most in the long run. Custom moves weren’t that option.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I think the biggest issue with customs moves is balance. We've already gotten a surprisingly well balanced roster with 80 characters post Fighter Pass and there's still big issues with stuff like Robin and Little Mac

 

[Oddball]

Ganondorf doesn't need any major revamp anymore. He's already been changed to the point where he actually doesn't feel anything like Captain Falcon and now feels like his old self.

 

[J.I.L]

The preferred rules system ruleset should go by “turns” instead of “random”. The first turn always going to the person with the highest gsp. I played this annoying Ridley who got his ruleset 6 OUT OF THE 7 TIMES I played him. Are you SERIOUS? I sometime wonder if this online system was directed by monkeys. I mean, I literally could write essays at how jacked up this online is and create alternative that would be nigh universally agreed to be better. Heck, I made a post on smash ultimate online forum giving my template online THAT WAS SO GOOD, EVEN THE MOST STAUNCHED DEFENDER OF THIS ONLINE COULDNT REFUTE IT. My template utterly SILENCED the entire thread because of how good it was.

The fact that a 19 year old with the slight input of an mod could come up with an online that would theoretically SOLO this game online is UNACCEPTABLE, Nintendo.

Smash ultimate is such a dissapointment in terms of content. They rushed the heck out of this game think updates would carry it. What imbecile devolpers. They suck.

And what the heck was sakuri overseeing as this game was being finished up? Is the dude blind, this game was trash! You’re the boss,act like it and demand excellence from your underlings or sell the FRANCHISE AND RETIRE!

Edit: the only really good thing I’ve extracted from their garbage dumb of an online is 1 stock 100 stamina with ness pk spam. Ness is in elite smash and I put on that ruleset when I need a laugh, I’m usually not disappointed. Loool.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

Is the topic of discussion not “Unpopular Smash 5 Opinions?”

Oh, I thought I was in another thread. I had multiple tabs open and thought I was posting elsewhere.

My bad.

Well I got an unpopular opinion. Snake shouldn't be nerfed.

 

[meleebrawler]

The preferred rules system ruleset should go by “turns” instead of “random”. The first turn always going to the person with the highest gsp. I played this annoying Ridley who got his ruleset 6 OUT OF THE 7 TIMES I played him. Are you SERIOUS? I sometime wonder if this online system was directed by monkeys. I mean, I literally could write essays at how jacked up this online is and create alternative that would be nigh universally agreed to be better. Heck, I made a post on smash ultimate online forum giving my template online THAT WAS SO GOOD, EVEN THE MOST STAUNCHED DEFENDER OF THIS ONLINE COULDNT REFUTE IT. My template utterly SILENCED the entire thread because of how good it was.

The fact that a 19 year old with the slight input of an mod could come up with an online that would theoretically SOLO this game online is UNACCEPTABLE, Nintendo.

Smash ultimate is such a dissapointment in terms of content. They rushed the heck out of this game think updates would carry it. What imbecile devolpers. They suck.

And what the heck was sakuri overseeing as this game was being finished up? Is the dude blind, this game was trash! You’re the boss,act like it and demand excellence from your underlings or sell the FRANCHISE AND RETIRE!

Edit: the only really good thing I’ve extracted from their garbage dumb of an online is 1 stock 100 stamina with ness pk spam. Ness is in elite smash and I put on that ruleset when I need a laugh, I’m usually not disappointed. Loool.

Can't argue with fantasies, o Zote The Mighty.

 

[nshoes]

Oh, I thought I was in another thread. I had multiple tabs open and thought I was posting elsewhere.

My bad.

Well I got an unpopular opinion. Snake shouldn't be nerfed.

No worries my man.

I also agree with you on that. Snake is strong and that's fine. People need to learn the matchup and stop whining.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Oh, I thought I was in another thread. I had multiple tabs open and thought I was posting elsewhere.

My bad.

Well I got an unpopular opinion. Snake shouldn't be nerfed.

The reason Snake is good is because he forces trades and stuff so just like Olimar, you need to actually think in order to stand a chance against Snake so I agree

 

[Deleted member]

I mean... for one... the pyramids were made in impractically harsh conditions and there’s still a lot of uncertainty about whether or not slaves played a massive role in their building.

Two, Nintendo doesn’t have infinite resources to throw on any one project and has deadlines that need to be met. You can accomplish anything with enough money and time, but those are finite resources for Nintendo. Plus, they already put in 76 characters and 103 stages at launch, they were clearly already working their ***** off and a bit strapped for time if Piranha Plant is any indication.

Third, and most importantly, there’s no good incentive to bring them back. Few people cared about them and they brought little attention to the game in a positive way. If you’re going to spend the stupid amount of time to design custom specials around 77 unique characters, you need to get something out of it. I’m almost certain that Sakurai looked at the receptions that custom moves got and understood devoting time to that particular idea was a waste of resource when it didn’t bring enough tangible benefit to the game. It’s a cost analysis sort of thing and there was not a ton of demand for custom moves coming into Ultimate. You can use those resources on other aspects of the game, or hell, this might be the scenario where straight up Echoes would be easier to make and be a decently comparable trade-off. You put developmental resources towards something that’s going to benefit the game the most in the long run. Custom moves weren’t that option.

Wowww....you're really going to try to educate me on a literal interpretation of my analogy? Do you take everything literally?

But also, I guarantee I know more about the pyramids than you--that being said we know very little about their origins and construction. Assumptions like "they were built by slaves" or even assuming we know when they were built are long-standing fallacies perpetuated by the desire for presumptuous people to claim to "know" everything. Some things we just don't know.

Again, don't try to talk to me about "oh such and such is impossible and let me explain why". Stop right there. To many, Banjo in Smash was considered impossible, or even bringing back characters like Young Link and Pichu. Before Ultimate, no one really seriously considered that these characters would be brought back. All I'm saying is that I'd like custom moves to be brought back and done better rather than scrapped. Is that so hard to understand?

Finally, and most importantly, this is the UNPOPULAR OPINIONS THREAD so you don't need to explain to me that "few people cared about them". Why do you think I posted about them here? Obviously, *I* care about them and I would love to see them return. By your logic, "few people care about (INSERT LOW TIER CHARACTERS HERE)" so they should just be cut. Not every feature is equally loved by everyone, but I also know I'm not the only one who liked custom moves.

So I'm going to need you to get all the way off my back about bringing up my unpopular opinion in the unpopular opinion thread, mkay? Also try not to take everything quite so literally.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wowww....you're really going to try to educate me on a literal interpretation of my analogy? Do you take everything literally?

But also, I guarantee I know more about the pyramids than you--that being said we know very little about their origins and construction. Assumptions like "they were built by slaves" or even assuming we know when they were built are long-standing fallacies perpetuated by the desire for presumptuous people to claim to "know" everything. Some things we just don't know.

Again, don't try to talk to me about "oh such and such is impossible and let me explain why". Stop right there. To many, Banjo in Smash was considered impossible, or even bringing back characters like Young Link and Pichu. Before Ultimate, no one really seriously considered that these characters would be brought back. All I'm saying is that I'd like custom moves to be brought back and done better rather than scrapped. Is that so hard to understand?

Finally, and most importantly, this is the UNPOPULAR OPINIONS THREAD so you don't need to explain to me that "few people cared about them". Why do you think I posted about them here? Obviously, *I* care about them and I would love to see them return. By your logic, "few people care about (INSERT LOW TIER CHARACTERS HERE)" so they should just be cut. Not every feature is equally loved by everyone, but I also know I'm not the only one who liked custom moves.

So I'm going to need you to get all the way off my back about bringing up my unpopular opinion in the unpopular opinion thread, mkay? Also try not to take everything quite so literally.

People were only making fun of your very poor analogy. There's a difference between people ganging up on your opinion and people ganging up on your analogy. For what it's worth, had it been possible I'd agree with you on custom moves

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

As fun as custom moves are, they really are way too unfeasible. We didn't get them as DLC in 4 because they took up way too much time. I still had a lot of fun with them. Of course, the RNG in Smash 4 where you could constantly get custom moves that you already had was poorly designed. So leaving those out does make the RNG wayyyyyyyy better by design. You couldn't get the same Fighter Spirit twice, and got other stuff. It also overall has better RNG than Trophies ever did. I feel like I can constantly accomplish getting new things when farming stuff. I miss Custom Equipment way more, but Spirits are a nice remake of the idea.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I liked custom moves, but that's only because I found an in game exploit to get them faster, so I had them all in like six months of playing fairly inactively, but the hassle to collect them was real even with it (especially considering the exploit didn't work on the Wii U version), and I can see why they take a while to make from a design standpoint. I'm glad they're gone.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

Wowww....you're really going to try to educate me on a literal interpretation of my analogy? Do you take everything literally?

But also, I guarantee I know more about the pyramids than you--that being said we know very little about their origins and construction. Assumptions like "they were built by slaves" or even assuming we know when they were built are long-standing fallacies perpetuated by the desire for presumptuous people to claim to "know" everything. Some things we just don't know.

Again, don't try to talk to me about "oh such and such is impossible and let me explain why". Stop right there. To many, Banjo in Smash was considered impossible, or even bringing back characters like Young Link and Pichu. Before Ultimate, no one really seriously considered that these characters would be brought back. All I'm saying is that I'd like custom moves to be brought back and done better rather than scrapped. Is that so hard to understand?

Finally, and most importantly, this is the UNPOPULAR OPINIONS THREAD so you don't need to explain to me that "few people cared about them". Why do you think I posted about them here? Obviously, *I* care about them and I would love to see them return. By your logic, "few people care about (INSERT LOW TIER CHARACTERS HERE)" so they should just be cut. Not every feature is equally loved by everyone, but I also know I'm not the only one who liked custom moves.

So I'm going to need you to get all the way off my back about bringing up my unpopular opinion in the unpopular opinion thread, mkay? Also try not to take everything quite so literally.

Spoiler: Huge post

You are probably right that I don't know as much about the pyramids as you because I don't care about them all that much. But coming right out of the gate with the "I guarantee I know more about *subject A* than you" comes off as pretentious and is not a good look. I specifically even stated in my post that there was a lot of suspicion surrounding the pyramids were built using slave labor because I do know that much. It's not an unreasonable conclusion to reach given the era in which they were built and how prevalent slave labor was for most "great" civilizations. We don't know all the details, again, you're right. We don't have definitive conclusive evidence on whether they were built by slaves, hence the room for interpretation in my original comment. But, here's a quote from an article talking about the workers not being slaves from the supervisor of the excavation process: "But let's not exaggerate here, they lived a short life and tomography skeletal studies show they suffered from bad health, very much likely because of how hard their work was" (https://www.usnews.com/science/articles/2010/01/12/egypt-new-find-shows-slaves-didnt-build-pyramids).

That's why people were criticizing your analogy so heavily. The only way to construct something of that magnitude was to put people through intense and painful labor. We already have a ****ty enough work culture in the gaming industry and we've seen Sakurai go to lengths of near unreasonable personal cost to work on the Smash games such as working through injuries and working with IVs, so that hits actually way too close to home for many fans. Yes, anything can be achieved, but there's a very real human cost to some of those achievements, and today's society tends to value people at least a little more than it used to in that regard (if only slightly due to many unfortunate circumstances of our present time). You don't get to hide behind, "Do you take everything literally" when you made a pretty distasteful analogy, even if it was meant as a joke (maybe even especially if it was a joke).

As for custom moves. I never said they were "impossible." That was nowhere near the point of anything I said in the second and third paragraphs, nor did I specifically state that anywhere. I was saying that there are limited resources to development. You put those resources towards whatever will benefit the game the most in the long run. When I say, "people didn't care enough about custom moves to justify bringing them back," I mean that in terms of the cost/benefit analysis that you would perform as a developer with finite resources, you look at their middling reception, see how many resources they'll take to develop, and decide to move on from the concept. Individual characters bring much greater benefit to the game and cause a greater excitement given Smash is a character/all-star driven video game. That's why we get things like Pichu and Young Link coming back, or an "impossible" feat in the form of Banjo Kazooie coming to Smash. Everything is possible... but not all at once. There are natural limits to development processes and that's all I was seriously saying in my reply. Maybe a bit harshly because, like I mentioned, I found your analogy quite distasteful, so I'll admit that much.

I completely understand your opinion. You like custom moves and want them back. Your more than welcome to that opinion, but some of us also want to have the conversation on why custom moves were most likely cut and you don't have to resort to the old, "anything is possible with infinite resources" like that's an actual reality that is at all sustainable. I mean, on your point with cuts, that's exactly how things happened in the past. Lower priority characters got cut because there weren't enough resources to make them happen. That's why Ultimate is specifically such a crowning achievement. Sakurai stretched his resources to make a seemingly impossible thing happen. But again, that came at the cost of modes and other features in Smash. Reality has limits is all I was ever saying. Custom moves can probably come back... just probably at the expense of like 20-30 characters on the roster. Which is fine if you prefer that reality, but a great deal of people, likely the majority of people, are unlikely to choose that route.

I'm not saying, at any point in my post, that your opinion is invalid in of itself. I'm saying some of the other things you said are problematic and I think it needs to be called out because some people in the Smash base probably need to hear it as well. And I also just wanted to talk about why I believe custom moves have been cut, and why I think it makes sense, discussion is allowed in this thread as well.

 

[Rhus]

But also, I guarantee I know more about the pyramids than you

Bold assumption.

I can't understand why you'd jump to such a confident conclusion given you know absolutely nothing about his background.

 

[Iridium]

My unpopular opinion: More swords in Smash is not a bad thing at all. Most swordfighters added carry unique movesets that make it so that they don't act the same. Arguments that are used against swords can be used against fists just as much, in my opinion. I already doubt they will ever outnumber brawlers, but if a worthy franchise gets in with another one, it would be discouraging for the same complaints to take over.

It seems like people nowadays tend to just look at the sword more than what the character can do with it. Not exactly everyone, but the polarizing reaction to the Hero is a good example of what I mean.

 

[Manonymous]

My unpopular opinion: More swords in Smash is not a bad thing at all. Most swordfighters added carry unique movesets that make it so that they don't act the same. Arguments that are used against swords can be used against fists just as much, in my opinion. I already doubt they will ever outnumber brawlers, but if a worthy franchise gets in with another one, it would be discouraging for the same complaints to take over.

It seems like people nowadays tend to just look at the sword more than what the character can do with it. Not exactly everyone, but the polarizing reaction to the Hero is a good example of what I mean.

I don't think that's unpopular. I mean, if you excuse my reaction, that's not unpopular amoung the people with brains.

 

[Xelrog]

My unpopular opinion: More swords in Smash is not a bad thing at all. Most swordfighters added carry unique movesets that make it so that they don't act the same. Arguments that are used against swords can be used against fists just as much, in my opinion.

People aren't annoyed that there are a lot of sword users in Smash. They're annoyed that all of them except Meta Knight are the same generic anime art style (this coming from someone who enjoys anime), and most of them are from the same single series. A series which I understand heavily features weapons that aren't swords.

It's a whole lot of the same and not a lot of excuse for it.

 

[Idon]

People aren't annoyed that there are a lot of sword users in Smash. They're annoyed that all of them except Meta Knight are the same generic anime art style (this coming from someone who enjoys anime), and most of them are from the same single series. A series which I understand heavily features weapons that aren't swords.

It's a whole lot of the same and not a lot of excuse for it.

There's actually plenty of "excuse" for it though I don't particularly like or agree with them.

Marth is the face of series, so he's not getting cut.
Ike is the single most popular Lord in all of Fire Emblem bar none and was relevant twicefold with 2 recent games at the time of Brawl.

Robin was representative of the highest selling Fire Emblem game of all time
Roy was brought back purely out of fan nostalgia for Melee
Corrin was brought on purely due to relevance and moveset potential

Lucina and Chrom are just low-resource clones.

Honestly, had it not been for the "Everyone is Here" policy of Ultimate, some of these characters probably would've gotten the boot, but as it is, these characters are staying on due to pure legacy.

 

[UserKev]

My unpopular opinion: More swords in Smash is not a bad thing at all. Most swordfighters added carry unique movesets that make it so that they don't act the same. Arguments that are used against swords can be used against fists just as much, in my opinion. I already doubt they will ever outnumber brawlers, but if a worthy franchise gets in with another one, it would be discouraging for the same complaints to take over.

It seems like people nowadays tend to just look at the sword more than what the character can do with it. Not exactly everyone, but the polarizing reaction to the Hero is a good example of what I mean.

I'd be down with another sword user if its Lyn because, she'd actually be unique.

I think with sword users in Smash, each all really look generically "Anime" barely distinctive and its really tiring.

Give me sword users like Shanks, Mihawk, King Bradley, Travis Touchdown, etc.

 

[Xelrog]

There's actually plenty of "excuse" for it though I don't particularly like or agree with them.

The problem isn't that all these FE characters are in the game. It's that they all use swords.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Give me sword users like Travis Touchdown, etc.

This please!
I haven't even played a No More Hero's game and I know he would be killer!

 

[Iridium]

I'd be down with another sword user if its Lyn because, she'd actually be unique.

I think with sword users in Smash, each all really look generically "Anime" barely distinctive and its really tiring.

Give me sword users like Shanks, Mihawk, King Bradley, Travis Touchdown, etc.

I agree, and this is what I wanted to say. I just meant that people shouldn't lump characters like these together as boring if they can bring something new. Not sure what I said really fits in this thread, so I'd rather not be quoted anymore.

 

[osby]

I don't think Ultimate's newcomers is any more balanced than Smash 4's.

People aren't annoyed that there are a lot of sword users in Smash. They're annoyed that all of them except Meta Knight are the same generic anime art style (this coming from someone who enjoys anime), and most of them are from the same single series. A series which I understand heavily features weapons that aren't swords.

It's a whole lot of the same and not a lot of excuse for it.

If people think Hero, Toon Link, Mii Swordfighter and Shulk are from the same artstyle, they need eyes.

Also again, if Robin and Corrin bring new stuff to table, why I should settle down for a spear or axe user who does nothing interesting? I prioritize actual abilities over what kind of pointy sticks characters hold.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I don't think Ultimate's newcomers is any more balanced than Smash 4's.



If people think Hero, Toon Link, Mii Swordfighter and Shulk are from the same artstyle, they need eyes.

Also again, if Robin and Corrin bring new stuff to table, why I should settle down for a spear or axe user who does nothing interesting? I prioritize actual abilities over what kind of pointy sticks characters hold.

What do you mean by balanced/what was your take on 4’s newcomers in that regard? I’d be interested to get a deeper take on that.

I'd be down with another sword user if its Lyn because, she'd actually be unique.

I think with sword users in Smash, each all really look generically "Anime" barely distinctive and its really tiring.

Give me sword users like Shanks, Mihawk, King Bradley, Travis Touchdown, etc.

Wait, did you just name two swords users from ****ing One Piece in opposition to anime???

 

[Idon]

Wait, did you just name two swords users from ****ing One Piece in opposition to anime???

(Also King Bradley is a FMA character.)

He said "like" the ones he mentioned, not the characters themselves, so probably characters which follow the archetype of what said characters do like a giant t-shaped sword or dual wielding or whatever.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

(Also King Bradley is a FMA character.)

He said "like" the ones he mentioned, not the characters themselves, so probably characters which follow the archetype of what said characters do like a giant t-shaped sword or dual wielding or whatever.

I don’t see how that matters in the context of his argument. Mihawk just used a really damn big sword and looks more gothically inspired. Shanks uses a sword but has almost never been featured actually using it. Those aren’t well defined and more unique archetypes of sword users in of themselves. We’ve never even really seen either of them do a ton beyond just be really damn intimidating and fight well in their limited moments of screen time.

We’ve already got large sword users in Cloud and Ike. We’ve got a more gothic inspired character in Joker. Like there’s nothing I see from either of them that make them worth bringing up in this context. Except Shanks has one arm and a facial scar?

But again, One Piece is the absolutely epitome of anime. It’s the second most important anime franchise after Dragonball. Bringing any character from the series immediately muddies the point you’re trying to make about anime characters in Smash. Especially when you picked two characters with virtually no specific unique feats. At least Zoro used three swords and has been with an extremely wide range of abilities, Daz Bones can literally turn his body into iron to attack, etc.That would at least work better.

But in the Smash community we kind of play Calvin ball with the term of anime swordsman among many other things...

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Indeed, people do make up their own rules for what an anime swordsman is at their convenience.

I thought it was ironic to complain about the "anime swordsmen" while asking for Lyn, who aesthetically and functionally wouldn't differ that much from the other FE guys, and literal anime characters from One Piece and Full Metal Alchemist in the same post.

 

[Oddball]

It’s the second most important anime franchise after Dragonball.

I would STRONGLY disagree with that. I wouldn't even put it in the top ten. I certainly wouldn't put it about Pokemon, Gundam, Akira, Fist of the North Star, Ghost in the Shell, Evangelion, Astroboy, or Captain Harlock.


As for an unpopular opinion, if Smash ever were to include an anime character, I think Sailor Moon would be a much better choice than Goku.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Indeed, people do make up their own rules for what an anime swordsman is at their convenience.

I thought it was ironic to complain about the "anime swordsmen" while asking for Lyn, who aesthetically and functionally wouldn't differ that much from the other FE guys, and literal anime characters from One Piece and Full Metal Alchemist in the same post.

I mean Lyn uses Iaijutsu which nobody in Smash uses as none of the swordies in Smash have katanas but go on I guess

 

[Gyrom8]

I think what compounds the whole sword user fatigue is the visual similarities between many of the characters

Like we have three variations of Link and multiple fighters with swords, blue hair and similar armour/cape clothing (yeah, in the case of Chrom and Lucina, that's hardly surprising given the whole father/daughter deal, but I don't think a series' story matters much when you're Settling it in Smash)

Meta Knight though, now there's a quirky looking sword borb

 

[YoshiandToad]

I think what compounds the whole sword user fatigue is the visual similarities between many of the characters

Like we have three variations of Link and multiple fighters with swords, blue hair and similar armour/cape clothing (yeah, in the case of Chrom and Lucina, that's hardly surprising given the whole father/daughter deal, but I don't think a series' story matters much when you're Settling it in Smash)

Meta Knight though, now there's a quirky looking sword borb

I guess Link's situation isn't so bad now we have adult in his blue champion getup as default and Toon Link looking visually diverse, but I'd be lying if I said I don't end up looking at the wrong character a lot of the time when playing as Chrom against Lucina or Marth or even Ike and Roy on occasion.

Valve famously made the cast of TF2 instantly recognisable from their mere silhouette so you could tell characters apart in a split second amongst all the chaos.
Unfortunately that's not a design philosophy many take into account when creating characters everywhere. Marth, Lucina, Roy, Chrom (and arguably Ike to a lesser extent) are all very similarly designed in that department. Lucina of course is purposely designed to look like Marth, and I suspect Marth and Ike both inspired Chrom's final look.

To be fair I also occasionally have this issue with the three Mario's, depending on the colours chosen and the amount of players(6+ usually) and assists flying about as well Samus and Dark Samus, but it's definitely easier to tell on characters with exaggerated features.

I think this might be one of the reasons I just prefer cartoony or more exaggerated designs than the slew of more realistic body characters being thrown around.

 

[Xelrog]

If people think Hero, Toon Link, Mii Swordfighter and Shulk are from the same artstyle

As compared to Mario vs. Kirby vs. Bowser vs. Ryu vs. DK vs. Diddy? Yes, they're all the ****ing same. Humans with swords.

There's an absolutely ludicrous amount more variety in fist fighters than sword wielders. There's no comparison.

 

[UserKev]

I don’t see how that matters in the context of his argument. Mihawk just used a really damn big sword and looks more gothically inspired. Shanks uses a sword but has almost never been featured actually using it. Those aren’t well defined and more unique archetypes of sword users in of themselves. We’ve never even really seen either of them do a ton beyond just be really damn intimidating and fight well in their limited moments of screen time.

We’ve already got large sword users in Cloud and Ike. We’ve got a more gothic inspired character in Joker. Like there’s nothing I see from either of them that make them worth bringing up in this context. Except Shanks has one arm and a facial scar?

But in the Smash community we kind of play Calvin ball with the term of anime swordsman among many other things...

Have you played One Piece: Grand Adventure? Mihawk also uses a pocket knife, which contributes heavily to his moveset. We have yet to see how Shanks would actually fight in the anime, true but its been established how he would fight in a handful of One Piece games. Shanks, Mihawk and King Bradley are anime characters but they don't look generically "anime" so it gives them more unique approaches. The etc I ended at the end of my post applied to other unique sword users like Zoro, etc.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Spoiler: Huge post

Isn't Microsoft $10 a month?

Anyway, my memory of Smash 4's online is that it was completely unplayable. A slideshow. Any online mode that I can play the game on is a step up from that, and I don't share any of the other complaints that have been listed about Quickplay. I could go into details about each one if you really want me to, but it doesn't sound like it would be productive for either party.

I would really like you to delve into those details thank you. I don't understand how anyone can call Smash 4's online better than whatever the hell we got this time.

The reasons why I don't like Quickplay is because it is fundamentally defunct compared to For Glory. GSP is a flawed ranking system that fails to accurately measure a player's ability or provide matchups within a reasonable radius of skill. It punished the player for losing and the algorithms ignore many key elements used to estimate how good someone is at the game. Sometimes you don't even gain any GSP from matches with bad enough connection or if your opponent quits. Clash of Clans literally has a better ranking system than Ultimate.

Playing on other rulesets is also strictly worse than Smash 4. In For Glory, every match was guaranteed to be two stocks and Final Destination form. Now, there's a chance your ruleset will be trumped by someone who has "similar preferences if possible" (those were literally the words they used in the November Direct), which means there's no stopping someone from turning on one stock items to try to get a cheesy win and being matched with you, who also has a GSP score that's millions below yours.

The online has no way to choose your opponent either. If there was a way to view someone's rulesets and internet connection and decide if you want to play with them or not, then no one would have a problem with lame rules or lag in Quickplay.

As for arenas, the menu itself is awful. Leaving the queue when you switch your fighter, stage, or background song is the worst. Or the fact that the game's speed is also tied to the spectators, so if anyone watching has bad connection the whole game tanks. If anyone quits in game, the whole game is shuts down (only applies to 3+ player games but you get the idea).

I just don't understand what could possibly be a step down from Ultimate's online nightmare.

But also, I guarantee I know more about the pyramids than you--that being said we know very little about their origins and construction. Assumptions like "they were built by slaves" or even assuming we know when they were built are long-standing fallacies perpetuated by the desire for presumptuous people to claim to "know" everything. Some things we just don't know.

Pfft, the pyramids were built by flying saucers piloted by dinosaurs. Get your facts straight.

My unpopular opinion: More swords in Smash is not a bad thing at all. Most swordfighters added carry unique movesets that make it so that they don't act the same. Arguments that are used against swords can be used against fists just as much, in my opinion. I already doubt they will ever outnumber brawlers, but if a worthy franchise gets in with another one, it would be discouraging for the same complaints to take over.

It seems like people nowadays tend to just look at the sword more than what the character can do with it. Not exactly everyone, but the polarizing reaction to the Hero is a good example of what I mean.

The problem people have with swords is that in a way they all pat each other on the back. Most (not all) of the sword fighters in this game are anime style. Of those, the vast majority are from Fire Emblem. Of those, over half of them all use the same or similar moveset. With a few exceptions in between most of the sword fighters all look somewhat similar in terms of outfit, hairstyle, and/or facial features. With the exception of mainly and possibly , most of the swordfighters in this game all follow roughly the same blueprint of design (even then the definition of "anime" envelops almost all forms of cartoons/drawings/animations in Japan so in reality and maybe are the only non-anime swordfighters in the game).

Another reason some people probably don't like swordfighters is their simple property of having disjoints. I can certainly agree that it's annoying to be spaced out by a fighter with large hitboxes particularly Shulk or Ike who have absolutely massive attacks (R.I.P. Shulk's Smash 4 bair). Notice how a lot of today's high and top tiers include many swordfighters such as or . It's easy to see how some people may enjoy playing against another fighter archetype instead, especially how swordfighters have such a huge presence in tournaments and online.

 

[TheTrueBrawler]

I don't think having multiple "humans with swords" is necessarily a bad thing if they aren't given recycled move sets. When you have characters with vast similarities to each other's specific swings such as Young Link to Link, Dark Pit to Pit, Lucina to Marth, and Chrom to Roy, that's where it overfills the roster with unnecessary fighters. Characters like Pit, Ike, Robin, Meta Knight, Cloud, and Joker brought something new to the table at the time of their introduction, and people often associate them with the clones that ruin the reputation of sword fighters.

It kills me inside every time someone wants to remove a character like Pit or Meta Knight for simply being a sword fighter.

 

[osby]

Why people act like clones are unique to sword fighters? exist.

 

[Grie]

I don’t know where to put this so, here’s a hot take.

A character’s personality is just as important if not more valuable than it’s moveset. This one trait can sometimes make a character memorable (like , and ) or can butcher it’s representation in smash and makes me question what was Sakurai doing that day. There are three character that suffer drastically from this. , and .

We all know the story with, Sakurai wants him to be a giant monster with more animalistic features. But isn’t giga bowser meant to represent just that, a mindless monster? It baffles me that talks like he normally does and yet talks in animal noises. He plays like he should, a big bully who takes what he wants and dosen’t care about is suroundings, but he dosen’t sound like he should.

´s problem comes from one simple fact, she is completely out of character. Instead of the stoic yet childish and dorky character with somewhat feminin traits, she is arrogant, sassy, and pretty much acts like your average « strong independant women » you see these days. The origin of the problem however doesn’t come from Sakurai wanting to portray the character the way he wants, but rather a mistake in translation that made her sound that way. If anything Sakurai is trying to correct that mistake.

Finally we have . Now I have not played ff7 so correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t he supposed to be a layed back dork who still takes things seriously when needed? Because if he is, than smash definitely doesn’t have that. Instead it’s the dreaded « emo-cloud ». The tipycal edgy anime protag persona he took is definitely not what he needs. The reasoning here is just simple, it’s just nomura that wrote him this way in the games he developed. That still is a disservice to is character tho.

So yeah a weird take on a part of smash characters that I don’t see talked about often but I think it’s important to talk about it when it comes to a characters portrayl. Not if it’s interesting but rather is it accurate?

 

[Slime Master]

I have yet to play ultimate's online, but I can only assume the people claiming there's no way it could be worse either are hyperbolizing or forgot that brawl online exists. For those in the latter category, I envy you...

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I would STRONGLY disagree with that. I wouldn't even put it in the top ten. I certainly wouldn't put it about Pokemon, Gundam, Akira, Fist of the North Star, Ghost in the Shell, Evangelion, Astroboy, or Captain Harlock.


As for an unpopular opinion, if Smash ever were to include an anime character, I think Sailor Moon would be a much better choice than Goku.

I probably should have specified Shounen. Though, it has been the longest running (In terms of singular story that continues) and highest selling Shounen for years now. It consistently does amazing and has never shown any signs of stopping. I’m also applying anime franchise to how much it expands beyond just the manga and anime, because it’s the only franchise I’ve seen to come close to rivaling Dragonball in how far it extends across multiple mediums and multiple releases. I’m sure others are more directly influential to anime, but the series is the successor to Dragon Ball in my mind based upon my admittedly limited experience with anime (I’ve watched several anime, but also haven’t watched several big ones).

That’s where I’m coming from with that.

Have you played One Piece: Grand Adventure? Mihawk also uses a pocket knife, which contributes heavily to his moveset. We have yet to see how Shanks would actually fight in the anime, true but its been established how he would fight in a handful of One Piece games. Shanks, Mihawk and King Bradley are anime characters but they don't look generically "anime" so it gives them more unique approaches. The etc I ended at the end of my post applied to other unique sword users like Zoro, etc.

How are you defining generically anime? Because I’m sorry, I love Shanks, but he doesn’t stand out all that much in comparison to any one on Smash’s roster. I like the designs in One Piece, but they’re pretty much one of the ways you would define anime aesthetics. Also, Joker already uses a knife and you see how well that goes over with those same people.

I don't think having multiple "humans with swords" is necessarily a bad thing if they aren't given recycled move sets. When you have characters with vast similarities to each other's specific swings such as Young Link to Link, Dark Pit to Pit, Lucina to Marth, and Chrom to Roy, that's where it overfills the roster with unnecessary fighters. Characters like Pit, Ike, Robin, Meta Knight, Cloud, and Joker brought something new to the table at the time of their introduction, and people often associate them with the clones that ruin the reputation of sword fighters.

It kills me inside every time someone wants to remove a character like Pit or Meta Knight for simply being a sword fighter.

So, you just dislike Echoes? The characters specifically made to be exactly the same as their original counterpart?