Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[DelugeFGC]

Cloud is top tier (albeit LOW top tier) and the 2nd best sword character behind Lucina. People keep looking at Cloud through the scope of Sm4sh, and they see the nerfs he got and assume he must be worse.. in reality Cloud is still fantastic. His recovery lacks, a BIT, but with Limit becomes top tier, can suicide kill.. and with massive aerial disjoints and a wall jump, actually coming out to guard Cloud can be YOUR death.

I also think Falcon is still high-tier, albeit less-so than he was in the past. Hell, I'll just post my entire Smash Ult personal tier list as my unpopular opinion, as I know a few of my picks here are gonna rustle some Jimmies:

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Similar opinion; Cloud’s nerfs didn’t ruin the character.

Most things that were possible in Smash 4 are still possible in Ultimate, it’s just more strict in timing, less safe or, in the case of landing an up air on grounded foes, matchup-specific.

Only thing that was outright removed is keeping the Limit state forever. Everything else is just... toned down without being completely taken out.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Beyond what the nerfs did, I find the transition from 4 to Ult was a MASSIVE buff to Cloud. With the game being much faster and having a way heavier disadvantage state, Cloud's pressure goes a LONG way when combined with his quick dash, nice air / fall speed (with Limit, even 15 seconds of it, you can do some BRAVE stuff offstage and also use his waveland to position VERY well for clutch vertical kills on platforms) and disjoints the size of Mexico.

There's not really any one thing in Cloud's kit that's bad. It all has a VERY clear, viable and defined purpose and there's amazing synergy to it all. People see things such as his smaller NAir (still a good move, just less important than in Sm4sh) and his 15 second Limit timer and just assume he must be worse. The nerfs he got do matter, but the buff of 4 > Ultimate offset them MASSIVELY and nerfing what was a totally busted character in Smash 4 still leaves something viable on the other side.. combined with said transitional buff and I think Cloud is in a very good place, low Top Tier.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Cloud is easily a top tier I just wish they would buff his range more.

Also I used Link's f-air yesterday and I'm still waiting for it to come out. They really need to make that move come out quicker.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Frankly, no first hit jab should ever have to take more than 5 frames to land.

 

[Robertman2]

The idea of PP being a base planned character honestly pisses me off because that implies they truly did prioritize a generic mook to be added over several fan requested characters.

One of the main reasons there wasn’t too much salt about Plant was because it was a free DLC bonus which meant he didn’t take a slot and we assumed it was this game’s token WTF fighter even though that doesn’t seem to be much of the case since Saks stated that it’s iconicness and familiarity was a factor in it’s inclusion, I guess it was primarily because of being unexpected.

those characters are still less popular and recognizable than plant

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

The idea of PP being a base planned character honestly pisses me off because that implies they truly did prioritize a generic mook to be added over several fan requested characters.

One of the main reasons there wasn’t too much salt about Plant was because it was a free DLC bonus which meant he didn’t take a slot and we assumed it was this game’s token WTF fighter even though that doesn’t seem to be much of the case since Saks stated that it’s iconicness and familiarity was a factor in it’s inclusion, I guess it was primarily because of being unexpected.

I honestly think this was the perfect opportunity to bring Geno in finally, making him a free-then-paid character would have really offset fears about him being a hard sell. Plant largely seems to have been chosen because Sakurai wanted to challenge himself as far as I can tell.

 

[Deleted member]

I genuinely believe that Plant caused a much bigger impact on the casual fanbase then anyone like Geno or Banjo ever could

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Out of curiosity, just how heavy is the Piranha Plant's pot? There has to be a reason why it's categorized as a heavyweight fighter, because it definitely doesn't look like one.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

I genuinely believe that Plant caused a much bigger impact on the casual fanbase then anyone like Geno or Banjo ever could

Which is funny cause Sakurai outright stated he didn't intend to really surprise people with Piranha Plant. I'm still 50/50 on it really; love how the character & moveset are played straight without any "haha look how funny this is" stuff, but at the same it's like...you chose a plant?

 

[Idon]

Out of curiosity, just how heavy is the Piranha Plant's pot? There has to be a reason why it's categorized as a heavyweight fighter, because it definitely doesn't look like one.

112 units, slightly below super heavyweight. More than Samus, less than charizard.

I presume it's because the pot/pipe is super heavy or something?

 

[Xelrog]

Which is funny cause Sakurai outright stated he didn't intend to really surprise people with Piranha Plant.

Answer: he lied.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Answer: he lied.

Come again?

 

[osby]

Out of curiosity, just how heavy is the Piranha Plant's pot? There has to be a reason why it's categorized as a heavyweight fighter, because it definitely doesn't look like one.

Same reason why Rosalina and Mewtwo are super light: Balancing.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Same reason why Rosalina and Mewtwo are super light: Balancing.

And yet sadly, the balancing can feel way out of whack if nearly every heavyweight is doing very poorly.

Anyway, if the Piranha Plant was treated as a lightweight, it probably would've gained a higher degree of mobility. Then again, Zelda is light, and yet her running is not even close to rivaling the running speed of the Belmonts.

For some reason, it just feels like the developers are intentionally making certain fighters much worse than others.

 

[osby]

And yet sadly, the balancing can feel way out of whack if nearly every heavyweight is doing very poorly.

Anyway, if the Piranha Plant was treated as a lightweight, it probably would've gained a higher degree of mobility. Then again, Zelda is light, and yet her running is not even close to rivaling the running speed of the Belmonts.

For some reason, it just feels like the developers are intentionally making certain fighters much worse than others.

Why they would do such a thing? You just have to accept there will be unavoidable imbalances with big casts.

 

[Dee Dude]

I lol at anyone who thinks Plant had an actual impact/purpose of being in Smash other solely being chosen for creativity and shock value.

Technically yes, it is iconic and recognizable but your kidding yourself if really they’re a logical choice in the grand scheme of things.

It’s like saying Moblin is more familiar and relevant then someone like say Krystal which is technically true but doesn’t mean squat.

 

[Arthur97]

And yet sadly, the balancing can feel way out of whack if nearly every heavyweight is doing very poorly.

Anyway, if the Piranha Plant was treated as a lightweight, it probably would've gained a higher degree of mobility. Then again, Zelda is light, and yet her running is not even close to rivaling the running speed of the Belmonts.

For some reason, it just feels like the developers are intentionally making certain fighters much worse than others.

It's a plant. I shouldn't have high mobility. At least this way it gets some more weight. Better to be slow and heavy than slow and light.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Why they would do such a thing? You just have to accept there will be unavoidable imbalances with big casts.

That's definitely easier said than done for some people. I mean, when we first saw K. Rool's moveset, it seemed like we would finally get a highly viable super-heavyweight. And yet, in the end, he's nothing more than a joke.

Sadly, improper balancing can be a big issue when you're working with such a large roster. In fact, I was told the other day that Smash 64 was the most balanced game in the series, all thanks to its smaller roster (less fighters to balance).

It's a plant. I shouldn't have high mobility. At least this way it gets some more weight. Better to be slow and heavy than slow and light.

It's sad knowing that Zelda is still a slowpoke.

 

[TheDuke54]

Honestly Piranah Plant was definitely the most out of there fighter they picked for this game. I like fighters like that. They take you by surprise. Like Game and Watch and Ice Climbers for Melee or WFT/DuckHunt. So I'm glad they stuck with a weird choice like PP. They were really the only fighter I got excited for with their reveal.

I know a lot of people complained about the fighter, but better a strange addition then another FE fighter.

 

[DelugeFGC]

Cloud is easily a top tier I just wish they would buff his range more.

Also I used Link's f-air yesterday and I'm still waiting for it to come out. They really need to make that move come out quicker.

I find Cloud's range to be in a good place, the only thing I could truly ask for to be bigger is NAir and I still find that to be a very viable move. Finishing Touch is now far larger than it has any business being post-buff, his FAir, BAir and Tilts all have MASSIVE disjoints on them, and UAir / DAir are just.. such nice moves. Cloud doesn't really have anything I find myself thinking "Man, I wish that was better." with except I wish his NAir was slightly larger. That's about it, as I said, I find Cloud to be in a very good place. That's not just because I main him, but I do find said fact gives me more experience with the character which does assist me in the act of making such bold claims in the first place. Cloud is never a character I find myself struggling with. Also Cloud is the only character I find myself actually using Wave moves with (Wavedash / Waveland) because he's just in a really good place to benefit from it, especially with Limit.

Falcon, on the other hand, could use a better dash (in terms of speed) and could do with more range on his dash grab.. but otherwise Falcon is still able to do a lot of the stuff he's always been able to. With Falcon, a DThrow out of grab can still lead to an embarrassing 0-death of NAir's into a Jab into a Knee as well as many other momentum based abilities.. he just struggles to get the engines started when compared to past Falcon. Still high tier.

Link is, in a VERY good spot. Link has never truly enjoyed the limelight, and right now I find him to be rubbing elbows with the top dogs of high tier. Yeah, he has some slow moves, but for a character that is able to lock down and turtle so well.. if you gave Link more speed he could become a SERIOUS issue.

If I could beg for buffs for any one character, it'd likely be Doc. I LOVE using him, he's really fun and I find him overall to be very solid.. but I don't see any real reason his recovery has to be that bad. It essentially ensures his death any time he gets knocked a decent ways off stage or gets edge guarded.

 

[Opossum]

Same reason why Rosalina and Mewtwo are super light: Balancing.

I'd argue those at least make some sense, due to them floating, and as a result, not having stable footing to keep them grounded.

 

[Xelrog]

It's sad knowing that Zelda is still a slowpoke.

Zelda wears a dress and heels. Let's be real, Peach has no business being as fast as she is.

 

[Idon]

Zelda wears a dress and heels. Let's be real, Peach has no business being as fast as she is.

Lol, just make her float like all the other dress wearers.

 

[Arthur97]

Zelda wears a dress and heels. Let's be real, Peach has no business being as fast as she is.

At least Peach and Daisy are athletic and play sports.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

At least Peach and Daisy are athletic and play sports.

They don't wear heels when playing sports.

 

[Arthur97]

They don't wear heels when playing sports.

Still more than you usually see Zelda doing.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Zelda wears a dress and heels. Let's be real, Peach has no business being as fast as she is.

Ironically, Zero Suit Samus runs quite fast for a woman in heels.

 

[Idon]

Ironically, Zero Suit Samus runs quite fast for a woman in heels.

Nah man, they're jet boots that LOOK like heels.

 

[Dee Dude]

There needs to be more pants wearing females, no more dresses.

 

[Wiinner159]

There needs to be more pants wearing females, no more dresses.

Talking in general or just in Smash? Cause in general I've actually found pants to be more common in my own subjective experience, but hey that's just me. (Referring to both irl and video games btw)

In Smash however it seems to a be 10 to 5 ratio of females who don't wear dresses versus those that do, Isabelle excluded simply because I don't know if you'd consider a skirt in the same category. Though to be fair I did count Samus and ZSS individually so I'll give you that.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Ironically, Zero Suit Samus runs quite fast for a woman in heels.

Must be the alien bird DNA

 

[Xelrog]

We need a dude in a kilt for the next fighter.

 

[Idon]

There needs to be more pants wearing females, no more dresses.

Uh well you got...

Lyn
Shantae
Dixie Kong
Ashley
Lip
Rex+Pyra/Mythra
Medusa
Arle Nadja
Celica
Micaiah
Ayumi Tachibana...

and Elma, so hey.
That's a one.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Dixie Kong

Fur doesn't count as pants.

 

[Dee Dude]

Talking in general or just in Smash? Cause in general I've actually found pants to be more common in my own subjective experience, but hey that's just me. (Referring to both irl and video games btw)

In Smash however it seems to a be 10 to 5 ratio of females who don't wear dresses versus those that do, Isabelle excluded simply because I don't know if you'd consider a skirt in the same category. Though to be fair I did count Samus and ZSS individually so I'll give you that.

Just Smash.

Uh well you got...

Lyn
Shantae
Dixie Kong
Ashley
Lip
Rex+Pyra/Mythra
Medusa
Arle Nadja
Celica
Micaiah
Ayumi Tachibana...

and Elma, so hey.
That's a one.

-Dixie doesn’t wear pants

-Ashely wears a dress

-Medusa wears a dress

-Don’t forget Krystal.

 

[Haden]

I would sacrifice any potential Zelda newcomer for a unique and canon Ganondorf.

I second this, but Ganon should also have Wolf laser.

 

[DelugeFGC]

I actually really like Ultimate Ganon and find myself really liking him for the first time since Melee, Brawl and 4 Ganon just felt so laughably bad to use, although I did prefer the Twilight Princess look for Ganon and I know I'm in the minority there.

If I could ask for any one thing to be different, I'd likely ask for Warlock Punch to be completely removed and replaced with another move. It's a good move, but it's no where near as hype as Falcon Punch and the ONLY time I find myself using it is for disrespectful ****. I never go for it because it's optimal.. because it never is. So I could live with it being replaced.

 

[Idon]

Just Smash.



-Dixie doesn’t wear pants

-Ashely wears a dress

-Medusa wears a dress

-Don’t forget Krystal.

I know.
I'm listing all the female character that don't wear pants, and Elma's the only one that does.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Sadly, improper balancing can be a big issue when you're working with such a large roster. In fact, I was told the other day that Smash 64 was the most balanced game in the series, all thanks to its smaller roster (less fighters to balance).

That is very true. The small roster makes Smash 64 very balanced.

Doesn't necessarily mean that's for the best though. Balance doesn't necessarily make a game fun; in fact, it's meaningless by itself. People prefer to have a diversity of playstyles to choose from over creating a 5:5 fighting game utopia that sacrifices individuality.
Buffing and nerfing is actually done with the purpose of making a game more enjoyable rather than balanced.

And yes, we'll have to accept that the large roster will warrant some imbalances, but at least we don't have a Brawl Meta Knight or Smash 4 Bayo situation in our hands (at least not yet). Thankfully, we still have several patches ahead of us. Personally, buffing the weak characters and doing as little nerfs as possible would be the way to go.