Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[Don_Bongo]

I think Snake is the best charakter.
He is amazing at stage Control and a experienced Snake player will almost never lose it because of c4, grenades, and Usmash.Many top Players don't understand that space is the most important concept of Smash. He also has the best edgeguard tool (And arguably the best move.) with Nikita and an amazing ( maybe also the best) dashattack and a fast, early killing, big hit box uptilt thatreaches platforms.

Joker is bad, but for God's sake nerf his his up air to not be cancellable

Why? (bad)

 

[EricTheGamerman]

That reminds me, I actually want Joker to be bad. I don't think he'll be awful, but I don't want him to be good.

What? Why would anyone want a character to be bad???

I don’t care how much people hated Bayonetta and Cloud in Smash 4 or Meta Knight in Brawl, I don’t think there’s ever a justifiable moment to want a character to be bad or even just worse than others (it will happen naturally, but we shouldn’t desire that outcome...)

 

[Arthur97]

What? Why would anyone want a character to be bad???

I don’t care how much people hated Bayonetta and Cloud in Smash 4 or Meta Knight in Brawl, I don’t think there’s ever a justifiable moment to want a character to be bad or even just worse than others (it will happen naturally, but we shouldn’t desire that outcome...)

That one's entirely personal and not justifiable under terms of game balance. I don't like third parties. Especially relatively new and minor ones.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

That one's entirely personal and not justifiable under terms of game balance. I don't like third parties. Especially relatively new and minor ones.

I mean that’s definitely an unpopular opinion, but it’s also suuuper spiteful and petty.

Even if you hate the characters with a passion, i just don’t see the point in wanting a character to be bad to vent your frustrations with them. The character isn’t going anywhere and everybody only benefits from more viable and well balanced characters.

 

[Arthur97]

I mean that’s definitely an unpopular opinion, but it’s also suuuper spiteful and petty.

Even if you hate the characters with a passion, i just don’t see the point in wanting a character to be bad to vent your frustrations with them. The character isn’t going anywhere and everybody only benefits from more viable and well balanced characters.

Preach to me all you like, but you aren't changing my mind. I don't like him. I don't want him here, and it certainly won't hurt my feelings if he's bad.

 

[Gimmick-Hater]

I'm sure if I agree with that line of thinking, but I'll upvote anyway since it's definitely an unpopular opinion.

 

[Haden]

Joker is NOT the highest of the top tier characters.

 

[Arthur97]

Joker is NOT the highest of the top tier characters.

Has anyone said that? Right now the main debate seems to be if he can even make it out of mid tier.

 

[Xelrog]

Has anyone said that? Right now the main debate seems to be if he can even make it out of mid tier.

ZeRo's video title says that. I haven't watched the video so I have no idea if it's meant to be at all serious or not, though.

 

[PlasmaDam]

Im glad Joker doesnt have a female Alt **** Jane fans

 

[Idon]

**** Jane fans

You know...

you really didn't have to add that last part.

 

[Mooer]

I HATE Joker’s rebellion gauge design. It’s bad.

To be fair, Joker pre-Arsene is probably one of the best designed characters in all of smash history imo. But the “you’re losing so here is a buff” mechanic is horrid and should never exist in a fighting game.

For example: did you get caught in a combo by a highly skilled player? Well good news for you! Without any input whatsoever we are going to give you a few frames of invincibility to escape the combo AND buff all of your attacks to deal more damage and have more range, plus your recovery is now the best in the game. Good job at sucking! Your oppenent’s highly skilled combo techniques were defeated through no fault of their own (and you had no input either).

Arsene/Persona stuff should have been handled differently.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Joker without Arsene is garbage. He has a weak combo game and a low damage output, plus he's pretty light. But with Arsene? Suddenly his damage and knockback output is ridiculous. I hate that design. They should have just balanced him overall and made Arsene something like Cloud's limit so he gets 1 or 2 buffs but not super strong on all of his moves for like 10 or 15 seconds.

Plus, the invincibility frames and special cutscene that sometimes plays is overkill.

 

[osby]

I feel like this thread become more of a complain/rant thread than an unpopular opinion thread at this point.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

I feel like this thread become more of a complain/rant thread than an unpopular opinion thread at this point.

Well most complaints end up being unpopular unless they're legit. This thread is kind of a place for testing the waters to see if an issue you have with something is truly unpopular or not.

Please don't close it.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I HATE Joker’s rebellion gauge design. It’s bad.

To be fair, Joker pre-Arsene is probably one of the best designed characters in all of smash history imo. But the “you’re losing so here is a buff” mechanic is horrid and should never exist in a fighting game.

For example: did you get caught in a combo by a highly skilled player? Well good news for you! Without any input whatsoever we are going to give you a few frames of invincibility to escape the combo AND buff all of your attacks to deal more damage and have more range, plus your recovery is now the best in the game. Good job at sucking! Your oppenent’s highly skilled combo techniques were defeated through no fault of their own (and you had no input either).

Arsene/Persona stuff should have been handled differently.

Joker without Arsene is garbage. He has a weak combo game and a low damage output, plus he's pretty light. But with Arsene? Suddenly his damage and knockback output is ridiculous. I hate that design. They should have just balanced him overall and made Arsene something like Cloud's limit so he gets 1 or 2 buffs but not super strong on all of his moves for like 10 or 15 seconds.

Plus, the invincibility frames and special cutscene that sometimes plays is overkill.

The Persona mechanic is what makes Joker particularly unique and a more interesting character to Smash. Taking that away wouldn’t do anyone any good.

Besides, it’s fairly easy to mitigate Arsene just by having good reads and not actively contributing to the Rebellion Guage. He’ll passively build it up still, but as an opponent your entire strategy should be keeping Joker as Persona-less as possible. Even with the Persona he’s not THAT powerful and if you keep the pressure on your opponent he’ll lose the Persona faster.

It’s also like 2 days after Joker came out, give counter play some time to develop and see how the meta develops before we really start complaining about Joker. It’s alright not to like his style, but how he fairs in balance is just not an answerable question right now.

 

[Idon]

Keep in mind also Arsene decreases by a second per 1% received.

 

[PlasmaDam]

Where else am i gonna **** on Jane and sorry for that last part on my comment early

 

[Mooer]

The Persona mechanic is what makes Joker particularly unique and a more interesting character to Smash. Taking that away wouldn’t do anyone any good.

Besides, it’s fairly easy to mitigate Arsene just by having good reads and not actively contributing to the Rebellion Guage. He’ll passively build it up still, but as an opponent your entire strategy should be keeping Joker as Persona-less as possible. Even with the Persona he’s not THAT powerful and if you keep the pressure on your opponent he’ll lose the Persona faster.

It’s also like 2 days after Joker came out, give counter play some time to develop and see how the meta develops before we really start complaining about Joker. It’s alright not to like his style, but how he fairs in balance is just not an answerable question right now.

I think you may have misunderstood. I don’t really care how good or bad Joker is in the meta. I just think his design could have been handled differently. I don’t particularly like mechanics that aren’t rewarding or representative of player skill (i.e., rebellion gauge). Arsene incentivizes running away from Joker until he’s gone - to me that is pretty lame. I’m positive a bright mind at Nintendo could have come up with something different that still represented Joker and the Persona franchise faithfully.

 

[Idon]

I think you may have misunderstood. I don’t really care how good or bad Joker is in the meta. I just think his design could have been handled differently. I don’t particularly like mechanics that aren’t rewarding or representative of player skill (i.e., rebellion gauge). Arsene incentivizes running away from Joker until he’s gone - to me that is pretty lame. I’m positive a bright mind at Nintendo could have come up with something different that still represented Joker and the Persona franchise faithfully.

Yeah I actually kinda agree.

It's far too passive as a mechanic and rewards defensive play and getting hit to utilize. It's like an inconsistent Lucario aura on a Sheik.

If it was more like Wii Fit's deep breathing, I'd like it a whole lot more.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

The Persona mechanic is what makes Joker particularly unique and a more interesting character to Smash. Taking that away wouldn’t do anyone any good.

Besides, it’s fairly easy to mitigate Arsene just by having good reads and not actively contributing to the Rebellion Guage. He’ll passively build it up still, but as an opponent your entire strategy should be keeping Joker as Persona-less as possible. Even with the Persona he’s not THAT powerful and if you keep the pressure on your opponent he’ll lose the Persona faster.

It’s also like 2 days after Joker came out, give counter play some time to develop and see how the meta develops before we really start complaining about Joker. It’s alright not to like his style, but how he fairs in balance is just not an answerable question right now.

It's not that I think it's super bad to gameplay in any way, it's more that I don't like how polarizing he is. He's either super weak or super strong, like a very aggressive version of Lucario's aura on Greninja (or as Idon put it, Sheik) that makes Joker really janky.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Speaking of Lucario, would it be considered unpopular if its Aura mechanics were made to be better?

 

[Arthur97]

Speaking of Lucario, would it be considered unpopular if its Aura mechanics were made to be better?

Might depend on your definition of better.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Might depend on your definition of better.

I guess for the most part, have the maximum Aura damage multiplier be higher. Under certain circumstances, it can go up to 1.8x in Smash 3DS / Wii U.

 

[Idon]

Speaking of Lucario, would it be considered unpopular if its Aura mechanics were made to be better?

I don't know.

However aura as a mechanic disgusts me on a basic level and any improvement on that just... doesn't excite me.

 

[BonafideFella]

I hate that Arsene's automatic. You should at least be able to deactivate it so you don't waste your meter all at once.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still don't like Joker.

 

[Arthur97]

I still don't like Joker.

LIke, as a character, fighter, or an inclusion in Smash? Can't speak for #2 myself, but I don't care for a thieving angsty teen nor do I like his inclusion.

 

[osby]

LIke, as a character, fighter, or an inclusion in Smash? Can't speak for #2 myself, but I don't care for a thieving angsty teen nor do I like his inclusion.

"Angsty"? Did you play Persona 5?

 

[Arthur97]

"Angsty"? Did you play Persona 5?

No, I am forced to go off of titles like "Rebellion" Gauge, and without a Swtich port, that's unlikely to change. Either way, he's still a thief. Seems like a rebellious teen to me.

 

[Idon]

No, I am forced to go off of titles like "Rebellion" Gauge, and without a Swtich port, that's unlikely to change. Either way, he's still a thief. Seems like a rebellious teen to me.

You could always google ya know, lol.

Anyway, he's certainly rebellious, but his actual level of angst is actually pretty low, also on account of being a self-insert player character.

 

[Diddy Kong]

LIke, as a character, fighter, or an inclusion in Smash? Can't speak for #2 myself, but I don't care for a thieving angsty teen nor do I like his inclusion.

Nothing about him honestly. I don't find him all too unique, Arsene is basically a glorified Limit Break / Deep Breath and the dagger stuff isn't really all that different from regular sword characters honestly, sans the range. I also don't feel nothing for his design, stage, the amount of love he gets going so far that even his winning screen is different, and being forced to fight him all the time online cause he's new now.

It's different from characters I also didn't know about, but at least could respect because of the overall lore and what they brought to the game, for example Shulk. Or even Bayonetta.

I just don't like Joker. And I tried to remain neutral to his inclusion. But in the end it does nothing better for me than ******** about it online. So I won't refrain from ******** about other characters I'm not feeling right from the go, because 90% of the time, my feelings won't change anyhow.

 

[Arthur97]

Nothing about him honestly. I don't find him all too unique, Arsene is basically a glorified Limit Break / Deep Breath and the dagger stuff isn't really all that different from regular sword characters honestly, sans the range. I also don't feel nothing for his design, stage, the amount of love he gets going so far that even his winning screen is different, and being forced to fight him all the time online cause he's new now.

It's different from characters I also didn't know about, but at least could respect because of the overall lore and what they brought to the game, for example Shulk. Or even Bayonetta.

I just don't like Joker. And I tried to remain neutral to his inclusion. But in the end it does nothing better for me than ******** about it online. So I won't refrain from ******** about other characters I'm not feeling right from the go, because 90% of the time, my feelings won't change anyhow.

Yeah, they went too far with the victory screens. Cloud's looping theme was bad, but at least it was simple. I mean, Jokers Final Smash can be the victory screen. Why? What's so special about this guy? You'd think he was the most important fighter in the game.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Yeah, they went too far with the victory screens. Cloud's looping theme was bad, but at least it was simple. I mean, Jokers Final Smash can be the victory screen. Why? What's so special about this guy? You'd think he was the most important fighter in the game.

Yes and that automatically makes DLC fighters a new stigma in Smash because Bayonetta and Cloud where also so overtuned in Smash 4, and they didn't even bother with making that a secret, or had any intention of changing it. And it's bad, cause it's only for 3rd party characters too! Ryu, Cloud and Bayonetta all got a new stage, new music from their games and what not when they came to Smash in Smash 4. Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy are arguably way more popular, at least Mewtwo, and they got exactly nothing. Corrin neither, only the song and the Japanese version of said song....

Just compare the love Piranha Plant got (barely a functional character, even after the patch) and compare that to Joker...

This has been a problem for me ever since they kept favoring 3rd party additions over Nintendo-owned ones. Not even King K.Rool and Ridley got a home stage, despite them being the most popular requests on the ballot by far. Bowser doesn't even have a homestage yet, Zelda hasn't had a proper newcomer since Toon Link got in as a downright Luigi-fied reimagination of Young Link in Brawl, Dixie Kong gets ignored despite having everything a Nintendo-owned newcomer should have to get in...

I just don't like this.

 

[Idon]

What's so special about this guy

Unironically Sakurai Bias.

He loves Persona 5, and in fact approached Atlus personally for his inclusion.

 

[Curious Villager]

Yeah, they went too far with the victory screens. Cloud's looping theme was bad, but at least it was simple. I mean, Jokers Final Smash can be the victory screen. Why? What's so special about this guy? You'd think he was the most important fighter in the game.

From what I've heard, Sakurai is a huge fan of the Persona series to the point that even Ultimate's menu was inspired by it. I suppose he might have gotten a tad carried away but oh well....

I don't know if the other four DLC characters will get anywhere near the amount of love Joker did but I guess we'll see.

 

[Arthur97]

From what I've heard, Sakurai is a huge fan of the Persona series to the point that even Ultimate's menu was inspired by it. I suppose he might have gotten a tad carried away but oh well....

I don't know if the other four DLC characters will get anywhere near the amount of love Joker did but I guess we'll see.

And that's a problem with Sakurai. He seems to have trouble keeping personal feelings at bay even if he doesn't mean too. Joker got way too much special treatment. Even moreso than Ryu with his inputs and Cloud with his looping jingle (admittedly pretty minor).

Joker breaks most if not all victory screen norms. The announcer doesn't even call his name. Instead we have several characters with about three quotes each that supersede the announcer.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Unironically Sakurai Bias.

He loves Persona 5, and in fact approached Atlus personally for his inclusion.

What other games does Sakurai love? Because I wanna know what to expect.

Also, wasn't Nintendo calling the shots for newcomers themselves?

I don't get this...

 

[Arthur97]

What other games does Sakurai love? Because I wanna know what to expect.

Also, wasn't Nintendo calling the shots for newcomers themselves?

I don't get this...

I imagine he likes Street Fighter. Even played it when he was younger. I think even in at least one tournament.

Yes, but he had final say and obviously oversaw development. I doubt it was mandated by Nintendo that he get special treatment.

Though, I should comment that most evidence suggests the plant was meant to be a base fighter and is treated as such.

 

[Idon]

What other games does Sakurai love? Because I wanna know what to expect.

Also, wasn't Nintendo calling the shots for newcomers themselves?

I don't get this...

You'd have to look into interviews for that one. DQ thread tells me he's a fan of DQ3 though.

As for Nintendo calling the shots, Sakurai tells us they made the selection, but an Atlus representative says Sakurai approached them for Joker. Perhaps Sakurai went on Nintendo's behalf? Or maybe that tweet was just a way to stop people asking for DLC characters already decided upon, lol.