Unpopular Smash Ultimate Opinions! - Read the OP before Posting

[DelugeFGC]

I'm completely stupid and thought it was being said that the top tiers IN SMASH 4, were nerfed too much. I'm dumb, ignore that.

I've been jumping around threads via 'Alerts' today instead of manually going into threads and forgot which one I was in for a second, so my brain farted the context for that post right out the window at the time.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Well Sakurai sounds like he needs to get over himself.

There is nothing to get over about. If that was his stance from a creator's perspective then it has to be respected.

He no longer has control over the Kirby series, but I bet Hal probably feels the same way as there hasn't been any notorious human additions in the latest Kirby games.

Personally, I agree with Sakurai there and I rather they keep it that way. I've also never cared much about human characters in a Kirby game, which is why Adeline always stood out like a sore thumb to me. Nothing against her, mind you, I just don't care a lot about her design.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Even Cloud?

No not Cloud. Cloud is how you nerf a Top Tier character right. But SSB4 Cloud was total bull**** anyway. Now he's just like a faster Ike with a projectile minus the insane combos.

Sheik and Bayonetta is how you don't nerf Top Tiers. Diddy is somewhere in between. I still think he's usable, but received way too many nerfs still. If he just got a recovery boost, more KO power on his F Air, a slight air speed boost and faster grab, he'll be as good as he ever was. Bayonetta and Sheik also just lack KO options.

 

[Arthur97]

Personally, Cloud is still too good for my tastes.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Unpopular opinion: I greatly prefer the Top Tiers of Smash 4 over Ultimate's. Mainly because outside of pre-patched Hoo-Hah Diddy and Cloud's entire Smash 4 carreer, they where all characters that took great skill to use. Anyone can have some succes with a pocket Lucina currently, and I feel only Pichu, Olimar, Shulk and Greninja come close to the skill factor you needed for characters as .

Maybe it's because Smash 4 has been patched throughout it's life, and Smash 4 is simply more developed than Ultimate, but still. The Smash 4 Top Tiers made it look more like I was watching Melee again, but in HD.

This makes me kinda wish I could play or effectively though...

 

[DelugeFGC]

Yes but the metagame of Smash Ult is only a few months old, so some of those conclusions may be a bit early no?

Also at no point of Sm4sh's life did it ever feel like Melee. I've had Ult give me vibes a NUMBER of times, but 4..? No. Step up from Brawl or not, that was still a meta that rewarded defensive play above all else.

Also, Lucina isn't just, carry you good either. Sm4sh Bayo, Cloud and Diddy were. Leffen and Armada were able to do VERY well with Diddy despite having no clue about the game and basically having just picked it up at the time. From my experience at locals thus far, Lucina won't be a pick that simply carries you. She's very good, but she has nothing on Sm4sh top tiers. They were busted. Skill to use or not, no character should be SO good that the skill required to do well with them is HUGELY different than even the characters a FEW TIERS behind.. that was Sm4sh's top tiers.

Also, I would put very little in 4 up there with Ult in terms of 'skill factor'. Everything about 4 just about was objectively easier. I view Ultimate as the best of old and new, what I wanted Brawl to be all those years ago. I very nearly despised Sm4sh, and I did hate Brawl.. so clearly something big has changed. Granted I'm a competitive player so mine is ONE viewpoint of the two available.

Is it perfect? No. I'd like some of the ledge stuff tweaked and some other things, but all-in-all I'm stoked. Ultimate has effectively replaced Melee for me. Yeah I'll miss sliding around platforms like an ice skater before sliding up in someone's DM's with Luigi's USmash. Melee's movement can never be replaced and I will always miss my moonwalk knees.. Otherwise, I think Ultimate has it beaten near everywhere else and in enough places to succeed it, THOUGH I will admit a big part of this also is Melee's age and current meta situation too. Melee has become really stale to me as of the past few years.

 

[Arthur97]

Unpopular opinion: I greatly prefer the Top Tiers of Smash 4 over Ultimate's. Mainly because outside of pre-patched Hoo-Hah Diddy and Cloud's entire Smash 4 carreer, they where all characters that took great skill to use. Anyone can have some succes with a pocket Lucina currently, and I feel only Pichu, Olimar, Shulk and Greninja come close to the skill factor you needed for characters as .

Maybe it's because Smash 4 has been patched throughout it's life, and Smash 4 is simply more developed than Ultimate, but still. The Smash 4 Top Tiers made it look more like I was watching Melee again, but in HD.

This makes me kinda wish I could play or effectively though...

My personal experience begs to differ with you about Lucina carrying you.

Also, Bayo and skill?

 

[DelugeFGC]

All-in-all I'm really not sure what viewpoint one would need to conclude that Sm4sh's busted top tiers required skill. Maybe if you ONLY played casually it could appear that way.. MAYBE. They required skilled in the sense that you had to be GOOD ENOUGH to hack it with the other people using busted ass characters.. but any time a favorable MU came your way it was just free.

Ultimate has a skill ceiling that might as well be the atmosphere compared to the tin roof that was Sm4sh's.

 

[Arthur97]

I would not say that all of the top tiers didn't require skill. I certainly was terrible with Rosalina and Sheik though maybe it's a matter of playstyle. That, and I seem to be somewhere in the middle skill wise. I can body casuals to the point it feels almost bad sometimes but I still often get my butt handed to me online.

 

[DelugeFGC]

I wouldn't say Rosalina was busted, nor what I say all of the Sm4sh top tiers were. Mainly just Bayo + Cloud & pre-patch Diddy.

MAYBE post-patch Mewtwo.. maybe. He took turns from going from **** to great, so I have a weird view on him in 4.

 

[Arthur97]

I was mainly just sick of Cloud and Bayo everywhere. Didn't help I don't even like them. Though, the first part of that statement is probably fairly popular. I might've gotten sick of Mario too, but, come on, he deserved to finally be good.

 

[DelugeFGC]

I didn't marinate in the sun of Sm4sh's competitive scene long enough to be filled with the hatred for Cloud/Bayo like many other people, but I experienced enough to get the jist of it. I mained Cloud in 4 myself and there was never a time where I didn't turn to my best friend / long time practice partner and say '..Sorry dude.' after beating his ROB or Mewtwo. Even when I made galaxy brain plays and did very well, I always felt like Cloud was helping me win even if I deserved it or not.

The same friend I could go say, Fox or Falcon, with and all of a sudden he takes a few games and the games I'm winning are closer. With Cloud it was mostly 2 stocks across the board. It did allow him some hype popoffs when he did manage to rarely beat my Cloud, though.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Simon has one of the one worst sets of costumes in the game, I've gone through several and yet none of them click with me. I guess the blue is good for Kirei Kotomine jokes but otherwise? Meh.

 

[Wiinner159]

Simon has one of the one worst sets of costumes in the game, I've gone through several and yet none of them click with me. I guess the blue is good for Kirei Kotomine jokes but otherwise? Meh.

You say that, but remember Sonic's alts? Neither do I

 

[The DanMan051]

Related to the subject of alts, why did they screw up the coloration on Lucina's Sumia alt this time around? It looks barely anything like Sumia.

Also, I'd love for more alts to be clear references.

 

[Arthur97]

Actually, I'd say Pac-Man's are the worst.

Though, Richter has one that is very, very similar to his default.

Not that it matters for me since I usually use default anyway.

 

[The DanMan051]

Though, Richter has one that is very, very similar to his default.

It seems like it's meant to reference his Dracula X Chronicles design, which is the one used for his Fighter Spirit (even though he has artwork of his original design from Harmony of Despair.

Related, but: I'd have greatly preferred redhead Simon and DXC Richter over the older designs used.

 

[DelugeFGC]

I think it could've been nice to get two different versions of Simon and Richter via skins like some other characters (like Cloud) get. 4 skins for each variant, one could have Richter rocking his longer hair and such.. Simon's could be his more traditional appearance, etc.

 

[Arthur97]

I'll pass on the redesign. Why would he even be a redhead in eastern Europe? Blonde still might be pushing it, but at least it's a dusty blonde.

 

[TheDuke54]

Bayonetta did not require much skill at all in Smash4, especially pre-patch. Why do you think everyone and their brother was playing her when she came out?

I actually like assist trophies and pokemon balls. Except Ult decided to make them unbearable by having some both be long duration and huge targets that are almost unavoidable when in free for alls.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Bayonetta did not require much skill at all in Smash4, especially pre-patch. Why do you think everyone and their brother was playing her when she came out?

I actually like assist trophies and pokemon balls. Except Ult decided to make them unbearable by having some both be long duration and huge targets that are almost unavoidable when in free for alls.

Not to mention, ATs can spawn now while another AT is in effect. Seriously, whose idea was that?

 

[Guynamednelson]

Not to mention, ATs can spawn now while another AT is in effect. Seriously, who's idea was that?

It was probably to show that the Switch could handle more than the Wii U or especially the 3DS.

 

[TheDuke54]

Yeah that's pretty much the bane of online. It'd be one thing to have a huge target be short and a small one to have longer timeouts, but both is just pushing it too much.

 

[DelugeFGC]

The last time I willingly went into a game online with items turned on (this was near launch, have kept the same ruleset since all the way through my ES characters) I got a match with nothing enabled but Smash Balls and the +1 stock item thing.. it was a timed match. Worst of all, this was a 4 man FFA on Brinstar Depths.

After that **** show, I don't even humor the idea of turning items on in ES / Quickplay even just for fun for like one match out of the blue. That match gave me cancer. I had all items set to on I'm 99.99% sure, I know I didn't have it set to the match I got though. This was AFTER the patch, mind you, but still closer to after launch than now. For Fun in Sm4sh could at least be consistent if you wanted to goof off for 5 minutes.

I haven't played online with assist trophies that I can recall since I've had decent luck with my ES characters + ruleset post patch once I got higher GSP and stayed there, but from my time in Spirit Mode I think it's safe to say even for less serious games I'm not okay with them either. Some of them just completely dictate the match when they come out.

 

[Some Beedrill]

Bowser's fun

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

Related to the subject of alts, why did they screw up the coloration on Lucina's Sumia alt this time around? It looks barely anything like Sumia.

Also, I'd love for more alts to be clear references.

Lucina's alts kind of got messed up, they made Nowi and Cordelia look worse. Cordelia especially looks way too similar to Cherche's now, and don't ask me what happened to the Sumia one.

You say that, but remember Sonic's alts? Neither do I

Said it here before but Sonic's alts aren't bad, they've been getting better each game. Pac-Man is the absolute worst, he can't even get full sleeves or change his shoe colour like Sonic's do.

Actually, I'd say Pac-Man's are the worst.

Though, Richter has one that is very, very similar to his default.

Not that it matters for me since I usually use default anyway.

Richter's blue outfit is based on how he appears in Symphony of the Night and Dracula X Chronicles, but to someone unaware of that it does look way too similar to default unfortunately.

 

[Arthur97]

Also, for Richter, I like that they went with the design that apparently is his one Nintendo appearance.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Bowser's fun

The point here is to share unpopular opinions about Ultimate.

Bowser being fun is just a fact

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You say that, but remember Sonic's alts? Neither do I

I mean, we did get a dark recolor and one similar to Silver. Those are honestly good ones.

But yeah, some 3rd parties have very difficult to tell apart alts at times. Oy.

Wait, this is an unpopular opinion that these alts are mainly sucky? XD

 

[Arthur97]

Didn't one of Sonic's too decent ones become less distinct this time?

But, hey, Mega Man has good ones at least.

 

[Wiinner159]

I mean, we did get a dark recolor and one similar to Silver. Those are honestly good ones.

But yeah, some 3rd parties have very difficult to tell apart alts at times. Oy.

Wait, this is an unpopular opinion that these alts are mainly sucky? XD

True but still, they're still very restrictive in color schemes. And I'm fully aware why, Sega not wanting Sonic to be anything other than a shade of blue to avoid fan character semblance, or something of that nature, but it still kinda sucks that the only color scheme that seems remotely cool is just Sonic's basics.

Anyways, back to unpopular opinions, Male Inkling is better than Female Inkling, Funnily enough because he's got the more sleek looking blues

 

[The DanMan051]

There's no such thing as "genre representation" or other such fan ****; nobody on the Smash dev team thinks Ryu somehow rules out other fighting game characters or is the sole "rep" needed for the genre. It grates on me when I see people say stuff like "we don't need anymore fighting game characters we've got Ryu" or "we need X character to rep Y genre".

...In a way, the big stickler here is "rep". Calling characters "reps" overblows things while depriving a character of their individual identity and tacking them onto a series/genre. People should approach each new character with a unique moveset (read: not Echoes) as a standalone entity, and likewise should support characters because of their individual identity and moveset potential-- not "I want Dixie first and foremost because we need X many characters to adequately rep Donkey Kong" or "Metroid wouldn't need Sylux, it's already got 4 characters" (granted, since the Prime 4 delay I doubt Sylux would even make it into a second fighter's pass).

Most who decry a character as "too niche" probably want a character that's even less likely. Ness in 64 should tell people that "nicheness" means less than they think.

May have already expressed this before, but if Zelda fans want a new character in Smash they should vigorously rally around a single character; if the DK fanbase can do it, why can't the Zelda one?

 

[DelugeFGC]

I definitely have my views on certain characters that people cry out for not being.. 'right', for Smash I suppose, but all-in-all I agree. I think people are far too quick to write off characters for the dumbest of reasons, usually all of which boil down to personal biases that have nothing to do with said characters ACTUALLY fitting / working within the Smash series. The characters on the roster ARE reps, but they're more than that as well. Them being reps is actually one of the smaller aspects to them in the grand scheme, these are characters with personalities, play styles and all the sort entirely of their own barring echoes & such (which I'm still fine with) and should be given a fair shake.

I also dislike how people are quick to hate a character for being in Smash because that character is OP or UP, the balance of the character has NOTHING to do with the character itself, nor does it mean they can't work in Smash. It just means they were balanced / designed poorly. Characters shouldn't make it in or not make it in based on representation unless it's a matter of a very beloved series not having ANY representation.. and even then it's still not the best reason. You can make a better case for OR against a character without EVER bringing such things into it, and thus you shouldn't bring such things into it.

 

[Xelrog]

I also dislike how people are quick to hate a character for being in Smash because that character is OP or UP, the balance of the character has NOTHING to do with the character itself

I'm not sure what you mean here.

What, like Goku? As a fan of DBZ I absolutely would not want Goku in this game even if it were greenlit, because he would have to be so watered down in power that he would no longer be Goku. So... yeah, Goku's absolutely too OP for Smash.

 

[DelugeFGC]

I'm not sure what you mean here.

What, like Goku? As a fan of DBZ I absolutely would not want Goku in this game even if it were greenlit, because he would have to be so watered down in power that he would no longer be Goku. So... yeah, Goku's absolutely too OP for Smash.

I was speaking to how people would have a conniption over Bayonetta in Smash 4, going well past "I hate Bayo in Sm4sh" to just "I hate her period" and even went as far as to go onto Bayonetta subreddits and such to cause drama. I don't think any other instance has gotten as bad as this, but I've known of a few other instances of characters getting hate just because they were overpowered. Meta Knight especially was called the '**** boy of Kirby' by a lot of my friends during the Brawl days, even though by that point in time MK had more-so became Kirby's ally in the games and was a pretty cool character overall.

People a lot of the time will hate an entire character just because of something related to Smash.

 

[osby]

A lot of people exeggerate how bad is. He's by no means no good, but his results so far aren't "We need a tier for him" kind of bad.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

A lot of people exeggerate how bad is. He's by no means no good, but his results so far aren't "We need a tier for him" kind of bad.

The irony is that Brawl Ganondorf is terrible for being so slow. Whereas for Little Mac, his problem isn't speed, but it's having a very poor air game.

 

[TyrantLizardKing]

A lot of people exaggerate how bad is. He's by no means no good, but his results so far aren't "We need a tier for him" kind of bad.

I feel the same way, he gets more rewarded for ground control than ever now. Probably still bottom 10 but I'd at least put him ahead of poor .

 

[DelugeFGC]

The irony is that Brawl Ganondorf is terrible for being so slow. Whereas for Little Mac, his problem isn't speed, but it's having a very poor air game.

I'd say it's more having a terrible air game, having an extremely underwhelming and punishable recovery, not getting Side-B back when hit offstage and all-in-all not having a ton of options which leaves him in an extremely linear spot.. which = a character that you can usually read like the back of your hand in-game because he has so few viable options in front of him at any one time. Mac's options usually boil down to one of three things. Dash attack, FTilt and FSmash. That's 80% of the Mac meta atm. The other 20% is the occasional USmash, UTilt and the once-in-a-blue-moon DSmash and on-stage Side-B. Counter to (very rarely) escape combos, otherwise just get juggled and die offstage early as hell.

He's not the worst imo, I think G&W is worse.. but he's one of the worst. He's objectively worse than he was in Smash 4. I also think Mac's ground ability is severely exaggerated, considering he can get out-spaced so easily by such a large chunk of the roster even with Mac's high speed. Mac is good on the ground, hell it's the only place he works.. but he isn't the 'best' on the ground either. Mac is also entirely screwed if he gets camped.

A lot of players will brain-scramble when facing a Mac for some reason, all of a sudden forgetting every obvious detail they know about the MU and trying to directly rush him down where they proceed to get wrecked by him. I have a theory that the reason for this is because a lot of people in tournament setting will put pressure on themselves JUST BECAUSE they're facing Mac, the most well-known low-tier in this game who possesses well-known jank such as KO-Punch and BS superarmor on most of his grounded moves. In doing that, they scramble themselves and sometimes lose the set over it. A lot of Mac's wins in tournament I've seen include the opponent completely losing composure mid-match and making it way easier for Mac to win. If you play patiently and out-space Mac or camp Mac.. or if you have a character with solid zoning / space control? Mac usually earns an instant L.

 

[Deleted member]

Tier lists are pointless and if you pay attention to them or try to play characters who are perceived as near the top just so you can win then I have no respect or understanding for you.

What happened to people playing for fun? And no I'm not talking about the mode. Just play a character that fits your play style or that you like and if you play them enough you'll win a good percentage of the time. For every character that people dismiss as trash or low tier, I have been completely destroyed by someone playing that character who was amazing.