Unpopular Opinions you have of Smash 4

[Wintermelon43]

As the title says: What are your unpopular opinions that you have of Smash 4? I figured I would make this since I figured it would be a good idea to have this type of thread, since many forums have this type of thread and they're always cool to have. And who better to make this then me, who has A LOT of unpopular opinions of this game?

Rules with this thread:

• Don't be rude towards others for having a differant opinion than you do. You can nicely ask them to explain their opinion, but don't be rude to them about it.
• You don't have to explain your opinion (although it would be good to include a reason, unless it's something like "I enjoy watching x character or I don't enjoy playing as x character, in which case there isn't much to explain)

Anyway, since I have so many unpopular opinions, I won't post them all in this one post, but I will make sure to post all of them in future posts! For now though, I will post 3 opinions to start the thread:

• Picking up another character or switching mains with another character isn't a good idea unless you make sure to train with the character a lot and make sure you can use them very good, and if the character fits your playstyle. And even then, it doesn't work a lot of the time. Many of the times top players pick up a character or replace their main with another one, it usually ends up making them worse. for example, Kameme's Sheik is significently worse than his Mega Man, and he loses a lot of the time he uses Sheik. He'd be better off using Mega Man more and Sheik less.
• Counterpick characters that have muitiple good counters are underrated and are almost always automatically semi-viable at least. Having muitiple uses as a counterpick gives them a reason to use them, thus making them at least viable as a secondary. For example, Kirby is viable as a counterpick character since he can be used as a counterpick to muitiple good characters (Such as Fox, ZSS, and Sheik). Being semi-viable/viable as a secondary doesn't mean they are viable as a solo main however, of course.
• I usually enjoy watching Sonic, even when he is played campy.

And many, many, MANY more, which will be posted in future posts on here! What are some of your unpopular opinions? Post below!

 

[Captain Phobos]

• Villager, Sonic, Bowser Jr., Ryu, and Duck Hunt are terrible characters with almost no redeeming qualities.
• Pikachu is at least top 8.
• Samus and Falco are top 15.
• Certain custom made block to block could be legal (like a perfect recreation of Fountain of Dreams)

 

[origamiscienceguy]

Don't buff puff.

 

[Heracr055]

Sonic vs Ryu is even, it simply requires patience and knowing when to take a risk.

And I don't think the OP's opinion about picking up a new character is unpopular; it's common sense, actually, that picking up/maining a new char will net you many losses before you start winning with them.

Also, interested in hearing why Sonic is a terrible char

 

[MercuryPenny]

mario is no better than top 15. his punish game is great and all but his lack of neutral tools beyond fireball and back air sucks a lot.

plus, he sucks against like half the top tiers (bayonetta, rosaluma, cloud, marth, mewtwo, sonic all really suck for him; diddy kong, shiek, fox, zss are best left at "even at best") so

 

[PeridotGX]

Smash Run isn't horrible.

Mario's F.L.U.D.D should stay in Smash 5

Yoshi's top 15. Maybe I'm biased.

 

[Nathan Richardson]

1. If you're winning with a certain character regardless of what stage is picked as long as your opponent doesn't swap characters as well you should keep using it. Especially if there's no real difference in between the stages that are picked.
2. Zard is a perfectly viable CP for cloud.
3. Every character, even the low tiers, have characters they do surprisingly well against.
4. Secondaries are excellent at CPing other characters but you should also have enough skill to use them just as well as your main, otherwise why bother?

 

[LucinaNab1]

1. Ness, Lucas, Olimar, and King Dedede are stupid. They're cool in their own games, but they should have stayed there.
2. I don't enjoy playing against anyone who mains any of the above characters, and I've even deleted someone I added because they were too good with Olimar. I've grown to despise that character, unlike the other three.

 

[Deleted member]

I only have a couple opinions and they're like this:

1. Target Blast and Smash Tour are great additions to the series.
2. I say, did not deserve to be nerfed in the last patch.
3. Sakurai and crew did good by putting in 's shorts outfit because to be honest, I never play as her here without picking one of those swatches.
4. The Trophy Shop is better than Trophy Rush since I can avoid getting duplicate trophies...as much as possible, that is. Better than Melee's lottery machine or Brawl's Coin Launcher.
5. This game is best played without music. Now, I am not saying I don't like any of the music (in fact, I'm partial to the Tomorrow Is Mine Bayonetta 2 theme myself) I have grown so accustomed to hearing attacks being landed and the off-screen crowd's reaction sounds.

 

[FlavorBurst]

• Villager, Sonic, Bowser Jr., Ryu, and Duck Hunt are terrible characters with almost no redeeming qualities.
• Pikachu is at least top 8.
• Samus and Falco are top 15.
• Certain custom made block to block could be legal (like a perfect recreation of Fountain of Dreams)

I've actually been really back and forth with the Pika one. Definitely has the tools to be considered top 8 imo but those pesky plumbers will always try to stop em. Early combo game is brutal against Pika. Another thing that's always bothered me is how short he is.

 

[Nintega94]

• Kirby's Certainly in the Top 30! He wins against Fox, is good against ZSS, 1 of his players beat Ally, & overall, his combo game & killing abilities can make Ryu wanna train even faster! Also, his copy abilities are underrated af!
• I can't Perfect Pivot for the LIFE OF ME! I don't know if it's supposed to be done as fast as possible, but no matter how fast I do it, I can never do it EVER without Bidou, & Even with Bidou it's inconsistent (it's the turnaround thing)!
• I can't stand not using Tap Jump in Smash 4 (except sometimes Bidou whenever I decide to use it)! There is just too much that I would lose without it! Easy DJCs, Easy OOS options, Double Sticking OH JESUS CHRIST DOUBLE STICKING IS WAY TOO VALUABLE 4 ME!!! & 4 those who are complaining about losing their jumps from Up Bs because of Tap Jump, just buffer the goddamn thing from another move like a fast aerial or an airdodge or hell even a Side B depending on the character!
• There is no definitive best character. I do consider Sonic #1 if I had to make a Tier List, but he loses to ZSS, who loses to other characters. Bayo loses to Diddy & Cloud, Diddy loses to Megaman, Cloud loses to Sheik (& Hard), Sheik loses to Lucario, Mario loses to Sonic, Fox loses to Kirby, Rosalina REALLY loses to Meta Knight & Even Mewtwo to an extent. There is no perfect matchup spread in this game Every character loses to at least 1 other character & beats at least 1 other character, yet ZeRo & I seem to be the only ones who think this. & Honestly, I'm really glad it's like that, since if you're picking a character for tiers, you have to decide your playstyle in some sort of way anyway, because no matter who you choose, you're always going to have at least 1 matchup you have to worry about, either making you pick up a counterpick, or spending the REALLY extra time of learning the matchup itself. I myself Main Mewtwo, but I have Sheik & Kirby as counterpicks because of Falco (annoying for Mewtwo, plus Sheik beats him HARD), Fox (Mewtwo goes even, but Kirby beats Fox), & Ryu (I myself don't mind the matchup, but I do consider it Mewtwo's overall worst matchup)

 

[Nah]

Don't buff puff.

same

....

I probably have other unpopular opinions in regards to Smash 4, but I'm not sure which of them exactly would count as unpopular. Maybe something that I think is an unpopular opinion is in fact not that unpopular.

 

[HerbsnSpices910]

• For Glory is good practise in terms of building a strong and stable mentality when playing against the most irritating and obnoxious of playstyles.
• Cloud and Bayonetta should be removed from the game and completely reworked. They are too good.
• is top 15 minimum.
• Playing secondaries is a bad idea if you want to get really good at the game. Like, I say that is my secondary but the reality is that I just like to play her as a break from Yoshi. It's so easy to get bogged down playing the same character 24/7. But in order to improve my skill I stick to the one character.

 

[JagerCrush]

*Sakurai shouldn't be allowed to have any input on Smash ever again*

To me Sakurai is the George Lucas of Smash. Everyone loves the original trilogy of Star Wars and most people that grew up with the originals think the prequels are worse. Just like everyone that grew up with Smash 64 or Melee typically thinks Brawl and Sm4sh are worse games. The core ideas and most of the characters people love and we will always be grateful that Sakurai gave us smash. But he does things that most people can agree are bad ideas. Nobody wanted Pichu in Melee, everyone hates tripping in Brawl etc.
I'm not saying Sakurai has ruined smash, as each smash game has at least something redeeming about it in some way. But I think after Melee smash would simply have been better without Sakurai. George Lucas had no input with Star Wars episode 7 and people loved that. Just saying.

I know game companies don't spend the thousands of hours playtesting like they used to because patching is a thing now and balance patches are good but at one point or another so many characters were just so obviously broken. 1.1.5 Bayo was just absurd, like it took me 2 matches playing with a friend to be like this character is broken, so why couldn't the guys making the game figure that out? She was one of a handful of characters that were clearly imbalanced.
Look at the stages in Sm4sh and tell me most of them aren't garbage. A Star Fox stage with an explosion every 5 seconds. Sweet, a nice Mega Man stage but Yellow Devil gets in the way. Guar Plain, nice music, nice background but there are springs and a boss that takes up half the screen. Four platform Metroid level, and Ridley is in the way and he's not playable. The board game play mode, no single player story like Subspace Emissary. Just a lot of things here and there that the average Smash player would consider a bad idea.

I think if you removed Sakurai and had a team of people making decisions and balancing you would have a better game.

 

[Deleted member]

*Sakurai shouldn't be allowed to have any input on Smash ever again*

To me Sakurai is the George Lucas of Smash. Everyone loves the original trilogy of Star Wars and most people that grew up with the originals think the prequels are worse. Just like everyone that grew up with Smash 64 or Melee typically thinks Brawl and Sm4sh are worse games. The core ideas and most of the characters people love and we will always be grateful that Sakurai gave us smash. But he does things that most people can agree are bad ideas. Nobody wanted Pichu in Melee, everyone hates tripping in Brawl etc.
I'm not saying Sakurai has ruined smash, as each smash game has at least something redeeming about it in some way. But I think after Melee smash would simply have been better without Sakurai. George Lucas had no input with Star Wars episode 7 and people loved that. Just saying.

I know game companies don't spend the thousands of hours playtesting like they used to because patching is a thing now and balance patches are good but at one point or another so many characters were just so obviously broken. 1.1.5 Bayo was just absurd, like it took me 2 matches playing with a friend to be like this character is broken, so why couldn't the guys making the game figure that out? She was one of a handful of characters that were clearly imbalanced.
Look at the stages in Sm4sh and tell me most of them aren't garbage. A Star Fox stage with an explosion every 5 seconds. Sweet, a nice Mega Man stage but Yellow Devil gets in the way. Guar Plain, nice music, nice background but there are springs and a boss that takes up half the screen. Four platform Metroid level, and Ridley is in the way and he's not playable. The board game play mode, no single player story like Subspace Emissary. Just a lot of things here and there that the average Smash player would consider a bad idea.

I think if you removed Sakurai and had a team of people making decisions and balancing you would have a better game.

I agree with this actually, and I share most of your sentiments.

As I played Smash 4, I just think the game didn't have any heart of passion put into it and was made out of obligation. I can't put my finger on it, but it feels that way to me. That lack of soul, heart, and perhaps energy makes me not want to see Sakurai direct another Smash Bros.
The thing with Smash 4 is that a lot of the characters are very poorly balanced even with balance patches. First we have things like Diddy Kong's Hoo-Hah and Luigi's down throw being passed, and now we have Bayonetta falling under the radar and, from what I've noticed, characters are much better just by having a combo throw. In fact, I hate that Bowser had his up throw buffed; it's like they realized that Bowser wasn't doing so well competitively, so they just gave him a combo throw and called it a day. Now, I will be fair and say that balancing a large roster is difficult, but I feel like some of these buffs and nerfs were questionable and not well thought out (aside from a few rare cases, like Marth).
The stages are also a mixed bag like you said and I hate how the "competitive" variant is just Final Destination stages. Why that? Why not make the competitive versions remove the hazards, condense their size, or take a portion of the stage? Making FD stages doesn't really fix the problem at all.

I feel like Sakurai has a vision of Smash and he wants it his way without seeing the wider scope.

 

[kirbstr]

Some Nazi deleted my first post for "trolling". Apparently, they don't understand the meaning of "unpopular opinion" lmao.

1. Falco is top 30 and has lots of winning matchups against mid tiers.
2. Rosalina is not top 10
3. Characters shouldn't be cut, ever.
4. Ridley is better off as a boss
5. Smash 4 is plagued by odd or bad design choices made by Sakurai
6. Meta Knight, Luigi, and ZSS did not need to be nerfed
7. Chaingrabbing was funny to pull off on your friends and I am a little sad it is gone.
8. More 3rd parties (than what we had at release), anime characters, and indie franchises in smash was a stupid idea and people should not have requested them for DLC because of it made the community look like a joke.
9. I like how many fire emblem characters were included.
10. Stage bosses can be fun to play with and aren't as bad as people make them out to be (just WHY can't we turn them off?)

I had more originally but I can't remember them all. This is an UNPOPULAR OPINION THREAD, nothing I said before went against the rules of the thread.

 

[Cyn]

Some Nazi deleted my first post for "trolling". Apparently, they don't understand the meaning of "unpopular opinion" lmao.

This is an UNPOPULAR OPINION THREAD, nothing I said before went against the rules of the thread.

Calling people idiots and stupid goes against the rules and that is why it was deleted. You can have an unpopular opinion without talking down to other people's opinions that are not expressed in this thread.

 

[kirbstr]

Calling people idiots and stupid goes against the rules and that is why it was deleted. You can have an unpopular opinion without talking down to other people's opinions that are not expressed in this thread.

Please put that in your reasoning for taking it down next time instead of "trolling". The rules stated not to be rude to others about their opinions, I thought that was in the context of the unpopular opinion thread and the people participating in it. If that was a misinterpretation of the rules then I apologize for my misconduct.

 

[Jackguti]

IMO
I think is very overrated. Yes he's fast and has a good combo game with a lot of locks, but he is soooo easy to kill. There are a lot of characters who I think can easily beat fox. To name a few: . Idk he just seems so easy to kill. I only think Larry is where he's at because HES good, not because fox is.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sometimes I seem to think that not many people give the custom special moves a chance. I get that trying to acquire all the custom special moves can be a time consuming process, but some of them are more effective than the defaults.

 

[kirbstr]

Sometimes I seem to think that not many people give the custom special moves a chance. I get that trying to acquire all the custom special moves can be a time consuming process, but some of them are more effective than the defaults.

Maybe if they were all unlocked by default so that people could practice against and with them viably (as well as have them available at tournaments) then we could use them. Most of them are really jank though so I'd think a lot of them would be banned. It also would take a lot from the community to adapt to a feature in competitive play that, quite honestly, just makes matchups more complicated than they already are.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I firmly believe that Roy is a mid tier character. Always have and always will.

 

[Saclam]

is entertaining to watch.
is a gimmick with a unfun moveset,rewards bad play more than
is overrated.if it weren't for Zero carrying him,Diddy would be nonexistent.
andare top 15.

 

[KirbCider]

Smash should never of had to share between two consoles (3DS and Wii U). Yes I'm well aware of how unpopular the Wii U was as it was a "failed" system like people like to state; however I feel like we would of probably gotten much more content on one system rather than divided. We still would of had Ice Climbers, most likely had a legit adventure mode (or at the very least Smash Run for the Wii U), and most likely more stages altogether than on separate systems. Smash just isn't meant for a handheld.

It would be more likely better suited for the Switch if they wanted to try the portability aspect that badly. I honestly think the 3DS version was a mistake regardless of how badly people disliked the Wii U. The 3DS version feels awkward in a lot of ways, too.

Other than that I don't think the game needs anymore balance patches until, and if, it gets a Switch version.

While there's a lot of characters I'd like to see buffed, and a few nerfed, it honestly feels like the patches we got are enough whether or not people think they were handled incorrectly. I honestly feel like a lot of people are getting too greedy and demanding of them, and I also feel like there's gonna be a majority who will never be happy no matter what happens anyways.

Some characters will always feel more powerful than others, and some are just going to get severely shafted/ignored. Unless there's something absolutely game breaking about a character that absolutely no one can deal with, we don't need anymore.

That is, unless we finally get a Switch port which may never happen. Until then, leave the game be for now patch wise.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Sometimes I think that footstool jumps can be very cheap, especially when used against fighters with very poor vertical recoveries.

 

[kirbstr]

is overrated.if it weren't for Zero carrying him,Diddy would be nonexistent.

This, If it weren't for the #1 player in the world playing him I highly doubt he would be in the top 10.

 

[Arhk]

Zelda definitely is not bottom tier, she is way better than people make her out to be.

 

[Null2000]

I cannot stand when people talk about "Smash 5", and I honestly never want to see another Smash 5 youtube video again lmao. 1: Smash 4 is SO new and people already want a fifth, and 2: there is litterally no confirmation that 5 is a thing so I don't understand why it is brought up so much.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I cannot stand when people talk about "Smash 5", and I honestly never want to see another Smash 5 youtube video again lmao. 1: Smash 4 is SO new and people already want a fifth, and 2: there is litterally no confirmation that 5 is a thing so I don't understand why it is brought up so much.

Nintendo Switch bias is pretty much the reason for that kind of talk, since the Wii U's lifespan is over.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Oooo boy, I'm gonna have some fun with this one


-Coins Battles are fun.

-Once edge-guarding starts developing more, Cloud won't be Top 5 any longer.

-Mario is one of the best counter picks against Bayo. Since aside from his short-range, he doesn't have a decent weakness that Bayo can really use against him.

-Home Run Contest is my most played side-mode, I wasn't interested in anything else.

-Shield Poking is a dumb mechanic.
Having a weak shield is bad enough, why are you open to getting hit even when shielding?

-I still think Corrin didn't deserve to get in. (Roy in Melee was understandable since he was an easy clone)
Someone else should of got the role.

-I don't hate any of the characters in the game.
Not one.

-This community gets way too hyped over any character placing high in tourney.

"Esam beats Ally with Samus"
"Samus is top 20"

 

[Dawn111]

I've finally gotten back into Smash recently, and watching the tournaments have been so much fun! Here are my unpopular opinions:
- As I get to main Corrin, I prefer Male Corrin, because I'm a big fan of Cam Clarke. I also like Corrin's design.

- Speaking of Corrin, he/she actually wins against Bayonetta in terms of matchups, perhaps like 5.5-4.5 or 6-4,
due to great neutral tools that counter Bayonetta's options. Corrin has great spacing that can out range Bayo.
I have seen MKLeo's Corrin, and he has beaten against great Bayonetta players like Salem and CaptainZack.

- There seriously has to be the option that removes the hazards on stages, like the annoying Guardian Forces
in the Midgar stage if I want to play like Battlefield, but Final Fantasy themed. Having the Omega stages are
great and all, but it's not an option if I want to play other stages with three platforms while not having hazards.

- Playing Sm4sh with the 3DS controls feels worst to me, mainly because of the analog stick, which doesn't
feel as responsible as playing with the analog stick from the Gamecube controller and the Wii U gamepad.

 

[Hydgen]

I think should be buffed.

(Read on after the salt clears from your head.)

Reasons
In the 1.1.6 update was nerfed heavily, which made all of her combos escapable using DI and SDI. She isn't a "brain dead" character anymore and her combos require reads and skill to execute properly, it doesn't help that her Side B is near impossable to land on a skilled opponent who knows how to shield. Her other combo starters, Up Tilt and Down Tilt, have some end lag and quite a small hitbox compared to her other moves.
She has almost no grab game at all and a horrible dash attack. Landing is also a problem for .

Cya

 

[Solo Popo]

I cannot stand when people talk about "Smash 5", and I honestly never want to see another Smash 5 youtube video again lmao. 1: Smash 4 is SO new and people already want a fifth, and 2: there is litterally no confirmation that 5 is a thing so I don't understand why it is brought up so much.

The Wii U is a dead console. If Nintendo want's to keep Smash 4 in the lime light, they need to bring it to their new system, either as a port or a new game entirely. Nintendo seems to be starting to listen to the Smash community. Brawl was so clearly designed not to be competitive, but with Smash 4 that is not so obvious. Sure, you cant ledge hog or chain grab at all anymore, but the online mode for 1v1 has items off by default and condensed versions of stages intended for competitive play. To me it seems like there was an internal conflict in the development of Smash 4. It is as if Nintendo insisted that the game start to acknowledge the competitive scene, and Sakarai resisted. I would like to see what their new Smash would look like, given that they have come back down to earth and recognized that they need to satisfy their fans first and everyone else second. Smash 4 to me is honestly a freak show. It is the oddest mixed bag of compromise in gaming history.

This is my response to you, but also my unpopular opinion.

In addition, deep down I think that Nintendo's ability to patch the game has forever changed what Smash can be. If you spend time discovering the most effective strategies with a certain character, it may be that they are eventually deemed too strong, and your ability to use those effective strategies is taken away. The game is so subject to change, that I hesitate to put time into it myself. When Smash 4 originally came out, I figured out that you could down tilt after Link's jab, and that this was very effective. My entire game hinged around this technique, but then they patched it out, and I quit, because I realized that I cannot put serious effort into something that is liable to become something different at any moment. You could argue that the things they are taking out are "broken," but the previous smash titles are rife with broken moves. An exploit like wave dashing would have been patched out by now if it existed in Smash 4. Originality is stifled and playing in unexpected and exiting ways is made downright impossible. It is as if the spirit of smash is being strangled alive.

 

[kirbstr]

The Wii U is a dead console. If Nintendo want's to keep Smash 4 in the lime light, they need to bring it to their new system, either as a port or a new game entirely. Nintendo seems to be starting to listen to the Smash community. Brawl was so clearly designed not to be competitive, but with Smash 4 that is not so obvious. Sure, you cant ledge hog or chain grab at all anymore, but the online mode for 1v1 has items off by default and condensed versions of stages intended for competitive play. To me it seems like there was an internal conflict in the development of Smash 4. It is as if Nintendo insisted that the game start to acknowledge the competitive scene, and Sakarai resisted. I would like to see what their new Smash would look like, given that they have come back down to earth and recognized that they need to satisfy their fans first and everyone else second. Smash 4 to me is honestly a freak show. It is the oddest mixed bag of compromise in gaming history.

This is my response to you, but also my unpopular opinion.

In addition, deep down I think that Nintendo's ability to patch the game has forever changed what Smash can be. If you spend time discovering the most effective strategies with a certain character, it may be that they are eventually deemed too strong, and your ability to use those effective strategies is taken away. The game is so subject to change, that I hesitate to put time into it myself. When Smash 4 originally came out, I figured out that you could down tilt after Link's jab, and that this was very effective. My entire game hinged around this technique, but then they patched it out, and I quit, because I realized that I cannot put serious effort into something that is liable to become something different at any moment. You could argue that the things they are taking out are "broken," but the previous smash titles are rife with broken moves. An exploit like wave dashing would have been patched out by now if it existed in Smash 4. Originality is stifled and playing in unexpected and exiting ways is made downright impossible. It is as if the spirit of smash is being strangled alive.

While all of this is true, have you actually gone back and played vanilla smash 4? It's a nightmare. Glitches everywhere, broken characters, horrible characters, back throw being a kill confirm from the ledge at 80% on, like, 5 characters and more. While smash games can be given a lot of personality from their quirks, those quirks can also break the game. If smash 4 was never patched (and we still got the DLC) Vectoring and Wectoring would still be a thing, metaknight would have a reliable 0-death on almost every character, Bowser Jr would be nearly unplayable, ZSS/sheik/diddy/bayonetta would rule the metagame, Mewtwo would suck, sonic would be even more cancerous to play against, and smash 4 would've died before evo 2017. While patching can sometimes reverse a lot of time and effort you put into a character and make it seem like life is unfair. IMO, the positives FAR outweigh the negatives.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

While all of this is true, have you actually gone back and played vanilla smash 4? It's a nightmare. Glitches everywhere, broken characters, horrible characters, back throw being a kill confirm from the ledge at 80% on, like, 5 characters and more. While smash games can be given a lot of personality from their quirks, those quirks can also break the game. If smash 4 was never patched (and we still got the DLC) Vectoring and Wectoring would still be a thing, metaknight would have a reliable 0-death on almost every character, Bowser Jr would be nearly unplayable, ZSS/sheik/diddy/bayonetta would rule the metagame, Mewtwo would suck, sonic would be even more cancerous to play against, and smash 4 would've died before evo 2017. While patching can sometimes reverse a lot of time and effort you put into a character and make it seem like life is unfair. IMO, the positives FAR outweigh the negatives.

Let's not forget Rosalina before Smash 3DS version 1.0.4. However, I will say that Dedede had his opportunity before the software updates really screwed him up.

It's too bad that lower-ranked fighters like Palutena, Charizard, Wario, and Falco still suffer from a good amount of moveset problems. Moveset hacking can fix that, but sadly, you can't use the edits online against random players.

 

[Solo Popo]

While all of this is true, have you actually gone back and played vanilla smash 4? It's a nightmare. Glitches everywhere, broken characters, horrible characters, back throw being a kill confirm from the ledge at 80% on, like, 5 characters and more. While smash games can be given a lot of personality from their quirks, those quirks can also break the game. If smash 4 was never patched (and we still got the DLC) Vectoring and Wectoring would still be a thing, metaknight would have a reliable 0-death on almost every character, Bowser Jr would be nearly unplayable, ZSS/sheik/diddy/bayonetta would rule the metagame, Mewtwo would suck, sonic would be even more cancerous to play against, and smash 4 would've died before evo 2017. While patching can sometimes reverse a lot of time and effort you put into a character and make it seem like life is unfair. IMO, the positives FAR outweigh the negatives.

Melee and Brawl do not have completely game breaking glitches because Nintendo put the necessary time in to them the first time around. They knew they couldn't patch problems out. Is Smash 4 better now overall? Sure. Should it have needed all these patches to begin with? No. They designed it with less care because they knew they could address problems after the fact. It's no way to design a smash game. Some people spend years of their lives analyzing literally every frame of every character. Exploits and glitches aside, if the game is not static it is not as competitively viable, especially when Nintendo is taking a proactive approach in eliminating everything they consider even slightly cheap. Discovering advanced techniques has no value anymore, because they are stricken from the game almost as quickly as they are discovered. If you are the type of player who studies the mechanics of the game in search of anything that will give you an edge, you will likely find your efforts in vain, and the more exciting and effective what you have discovered is, the more likely it will be taken from you. If melee were designed this way, Smashboards probably wouldn't even exist.

But I have hope. I take heart in the fact that Nintendo has at least in some ways acknowledged the competitive scene of Smash Bros with Smash 4, which was hardly the case in the Brawl era, when it seemed that Sakarai had a personal vendetta against us all.

 

[MarioManTAW]

Melee and Brawl do not have completely game breaking glitches, like characters getting stuck underneath other characters when grabbed, because Nintendo put the necessary time in to them the first time around.

Are you referring to the Nabbit glitch? Because if so, that was only ever on one (non-legal) stage, and even then, only in Training mode (so 1P-only). If we're talking about competitive multiplayer, or any multiplayer for that matter, I'm not sure why you'd bring this up.

 

[Solo Popo]

Are you referring to the Nabbit glitch? Because if so, that was only ever on one (non-legal) stage, and even then, only in Training mode (so 1P-only). If we're talking about competitive multiplayer, or any multiplayer for that matter, I'm not sure why you'd bring this up.

I mention it because it is suggestive of rushed game design, regardless of it's impact on actual competitive gameplay. But i've edited my post to avoid potential confusion. I say completely game breaking to emphasize the point that melee and brawl do in fact have some things people consider to be game breaking, but they are not completely game breaking. The way I wrote it, it seemed that I was stating the Nabbit glitch is completely game breaking, which isn't what I meant to say.

*edited like 50 times for clarification.

 

[Jackguti]

I already did one but here are a few others

1. IMO Esam's civil war popoff is overrated. I liked his smashadelphia one wayyyy more(and it felt a lot more deserved)

2. will fall off soon. He's a top tier now but as time goes on, he'll end up like top 10 probably.

3. idk if this is unpopular or not but is the only character without a losing matchup. Every character has that one demon that destroys them except bayo. She either wins or goes even.

4. > just saying.

5. The only update I feel this game needs is buffing rest for . Maybe tone down but overall everything is fine

6. I think is a good tier or two higher than because I feel like he is more rewarding for being smart.

7. ZeRo's is probably the worst pocket cloud at the top level. Obviously he can still destroy mid to low level players but at the highest of gameplay it sucks.

And finally
8. I think is bottom 2 next to . He's not good. Only reason he gets any sort of results is probably matchup knowledge being in 's favor.

 

[jello_magmortar]

I was kinda disappointed by Meta Knights final smash. I understand the reason for it being the way it is in brawl, but by the time smash 4 came out they could of at least changed it to a bigger version of the mach tornado like in Kirby Super Star Ultra.