Underwhelming?

[badfish321]

His Move Set Doesn’t Look That Unique. I Think He Looks Pretty Bland, But Hopefully That’ll Change As More Of Him Is Shown. Saw Some Kinda Gimmick With The Feathers But If Thats Just Something That Gives Him Super Armor I’m Not Impressed. Am I Alone In Thinking This? Can Someone Explain Why His Move Set Is So Cool, Or Can You Guys Stop Overdosing On Nostalgia So We Can Discuss Reality? I Get That His Inclusion Is Hype, But Seriously, Can We Acknowledge How Bland His Move Set Looks?

 

[Thewafflemaker2000]

What do you look for in a moveset?

 

[Dastardly Ridleylash]

Why does every character need to be super-duper-mega unique with a whole bunch of gimmicks? I'd rather the DLC be focused on quality over cramming in loads of dumb gimmicks into a moveset.

The important thing is that Banjo looks super faithful to his games, which is what we want.

 

[MagnesD3]

I mean I hope he still gets the egg change ability from tooie but if he doesn’t it’s still gonna be a blast to play him and see his iconic moves in action.

 

[SchAlternate]

Capitalizing Every Word Is Not Obnoxious At All.

On a less mean and more serious note, part of what's great about his moveset is how faithful it is to the original. Every move showcased in the trailer was taken straight from the N64 games, and that just further cements the idea they were meant for Smash.

The other part that's great about is exactly what you're complaining about: he has a simple, straightforward moveset. No gimmicks, no unusual properties, just an easy character to pick up and play. After the onslaught of gimmicks and overcomplicated mechanics we saw in Smash 4 (and even in Ultimate with the likes of Hero), it's refreshing to see character that keeps things simple and clean, without going overboard.

On a more technical point, the duo has potential to fare well in the competitive scene, having both good zoning tools with both egg types while at the same type being able to negate zoning with Wonderwing, and having average mobility. Nothing is certain right now, obviously, but the chatacter shows promise.

Also, yeah, there's the fact that Banjo and freaking Kazooie are in Smash and that's all that matters in the end,, but whatever.

I understand not all characters will appeal to everyone, but I hope this at least gives you some insight on what the big deal with him is, at least from my personal perspective.

 

[USAnyan]

For smash’s sake pecks, shooting eggs, and that sort of thing have been done before yes. The thing is not that instead how 90% of his shown moveset are moves from their games! Not to mention they have a lot of charm and personality

If you want gimmicks hero’s probably your man. But who knows maybe they’ll have a gimmick

 

[Vycoul]

I've never wanted Banjo & Kazooie to be overloaded with gimmicks. I think their moveset looks great from what we've seen.
And the mechanics of a character is only one part of being unique. Visually, Duck Hunt is the only character who is even remotely similar. Being visually distinct from the rest of the cast isn't something to ignore.

Anyway, it's quite rude (purposefully using much kinder words) to say that everyone here is "overdosing on nostalgia" and that we need to "discuss reality."

 

[Nartic]

Can You Explain the definition of a "UNIQUE MOVESET"?

 

[GhostM]

I don’t really see the problem with his moveset if it takes certain elements from the actual Banjo Kazooie games. It wouldn’t make sense for them to add gimmicky moves that have nothing to do with the character, as that would ruin the fundamental of the character. That’s like adding Sonic’s speed to bowser, it wouldn’t make sense at all and would be nothing like his game adaptations. I myself did not vote for Banjo Kazooie to be a smash character, but I would rather have his moveset and inclusion stay faithful to his games rather then getting the same character with nothing but gimmicks.

 

[CosmicQuark]

Totally right. Now that I take nostalgia away from it and see through clear eyes, I would have preferred another humanoid sword character instead. Who cares about variety, personality, and legacy anyways? *pffft*

(I'd respond more genuinely with how awesome their moveset is if I thought this was genuine and not a troll)

 

[ze9]

His Moveset Looks Perfectly Fine. Almost Every Single Move Is Canon To The Original Games. He'll Probably Have An Unique Playstyle Even Without Some Overbearing Gimmick, Just Like The Majority Of The Other Characters In The Roster.
Hope Fighter #4 Will Be More To Your Liking So You Can Stop Complaining. Meanwhile, The Hero Looks Pretty Gimmicky, He May Be More In Line With Your Tastes. I'm Sure Unique Movesets Are Your Number One Priority!

 

[TBone06]

His move set is exactly what I would expect which means it’s super faithful to their game. To me that’s a win.

 

[TheCJBrine]

They look perfect, so meh.

 

[Eagle]

This is an interesting point though; if they had the simple moveset you'd think their release time would be shorter than average. I mentioned this in the social thread many months before the reveal, I think Banjo being DLC rather than the base game means that they'd be more likely to have a more complicated moveset. So, the only unique thing we've seen so far is the feather mechanic. If there were anything else, it'd surely be different eggs. Maybe as simple as a random chance to use fire/ice eggs on neutral B and the clockwork eggs on their down B. But a proper switching mechanic would be better. Other than those two things, the feathers and the eggs, I don't know how else you could make Banjo Kazooie's moveset more unique.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Seems like TC ran away as soon as he realized he couldn't defend his point properly

 

[NintenEdgyMan]

I am personally not a fan of his moveset either.

Sure he is faithful to his original games, and sure he is faithful to his own character too, but I think that makes for a bland moveset.

As much as some people think they are a little too complicated, characters like Inkling, Krool, Joker, and Hero all have unique gimmicks that lend to brand new playstyles and add variety. The other ultimate newcomers are able to create new playstyles too, by having unique aspects about them.

Banjo seems to samey to me. He doesn't create a new type of playstyle to play around with. That's my problem.

 

[CosmicQuark]

This is an interesting point though; if they had the simple moveset you'd think their release time would be shorter than average. I mentioned this in the social thread many months before the reveal, I think Banjo being DLC rather than the base game means that they'd be more likely to have a more complicated moveset. So, the only unique thing we've seen so far is the feather mechanic. If there were anything else, it'd surely be different eggs. Maybe as simple as a random chance to use fire/ice eggs on neutral B and the clockwork eggs on their down B. But a proper switching mechanic would be better. Other than those two things, the feathers and the eggs, I don't know how else you could make Banjo Kazooie's moveset more unique.

There's always the possibility since this was a tease that if there is a unique gimmick we haven't seen, it would be revealed during their full explanation. For instance, we haven't seen solo Banjo and Kazooie moves as far as I know, so there could still be a mechanic that let's you switch things around for even more options (e.g., faster with Kazooie solo, more powerful with Banjo solo, all-around when together). Or they could expand on the feather mechanics--their recovery isn't as great as you'd expect from a flying fighter, so perhaps there are red feathers as well that increases your height. As you mention, many other egg types they could use if they want (I'm just glad we got grenade eggs, which I was hoping for, but didn't expect). So many possibilities, and that was ultimately what made them unique characters for Smash in the first place.

All that having been said, I'm satisfied with how faithfully their moves were adapted, so if this is their moves, plus aerials we haven't seen, than I'm all set. They're an all around character with a variety of moves, excelling at nothing in particular, but given a wide range to account for any situation-- a brawler (claw swipe), gunner (egg shot), swordfighter (breegull bash) aerial fighter all-in-one.

And as I said before, beyond their versatility in their moves, what matters most about Banjo & Kazooie are the characters and personalities themselves. Can't wait to poop grenade eggs on Snake.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

He's got a lot of similarities to Duck Hunt, which I enjoy because I've mained Duck Hunt

 

[SKX31]

On a more technical point, the duo has potential to fare well in the competitive scene, having both good zoning tools with both egg types while at the same type being able to negate zoning with Wonderwing, and having average mobility. Nothing is certain right now, obviously, but the chatacter shows promise.

I do agree that the duo has a lot of potential - but I stand by my previous point that B-K's frame data will be the main factor in determining whether they're viable competitively or not. Of course, that's not going to affect much amongst posters here (most of us are casuals I bet), but that does impact matchups and what to expect when playing online or whatever. I also stand by that B-K can do pretty well vs. , , and , but struggle vs. , and - even casually.

For example, we don't know if Up-B has a hitbox yet. If not, good! If it does, well, B-K's now open to being Countered under the ledge like so many others. Also, related to that, if Kazooie can be hurt then that's a major problem too.

That said, I think we can infer some positives and negatives from just the trailer (Note: This is far from a final assessment, but an inference. Can turn out completely wrong by the time B-K releases):

+ Great horizontal jumps: Aids with approaches and ensures one can be flexible with Eggs / Wonderwing.
+ Decently quick attacks: Allows B-K to mix-up and keep up the offense up close. Also allows B-K to keep opponents guessing, which I think will be key to B-K's game, both casually and competively.
+ Good reach on the ground: Allows B-K to space tilts, smashes etc. pretty well. Also helps to pressure shields.

+ / -: (This is crucial - does B-K have little start-up / endlag, or not? We haven't seen most moves, so it's difficult to tell.)

- Bad / Mediocre vertical jumps: Could be a problem in Battlefield stages mainly, might result in B-K having trouble / overcommiting with follow ups sometimes.
- Likely medium to heavy weight, but also possibly floaty. Makes B-K's possibly vurnerable to combos and tech-chases.
- The eggs don't appear to have that much priority (normal Eggs), or can be grabbed (Grenade). Hinders spammability, and can turn out nasty if lets say Inkling throws her bomb at B-K (the bomb out-prioritizes almost every other projectile in the game though, extreme example).

 

[RealPokeFan11]

Banjo is a character that doesn't need tons of gimmicks to work. He also looks like a ton of fun to play, and his moveset feels perfectly represented by his games.

(Minor Nitpick: Do You Really Need To Capitalize Every Word You Type?)

 

[Gekkouga]

I hate gimmicks so they're perfectly fine in my eyes.

 

[EnigmaticNerd]

they dont have a sword, counter, or reflector. Thats about as unique as a character can be in this series at this point.

 

[StormC]

Sakurai is a smart enough director to realize trying to continuously "one up" the gimmicky movesets will just lead to either diminishing returns or impenetrably unplayable characters. There is nothing wrong with straightforward characters.

Everything in this thread that needs to be said has, but you might want to call him a cereal mascot for good measure, OP.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I doubt that Up B has a hitbox. The move it's based off has no offensive capabilities and we see in the trailer that it work similar to Megaman's and Sonic's Up B, as the user can still act out of it.
Of course, Smash may disregard this and give it a hitbox but I'm 90% sure that is not going to be the case.

 

[KingMinjo91]

I'm actually really glad that the moveset so far is absolutely faithful to how they are in their games.

I'm also relieved that they werent given any kind of crazy gimmick for the sake of standing out, and that they seem to work so well without one. Its a great example of why we believed that Banjo&Kazooie would be a perfect fit when it came to Smash Bros.

 

[SuperiorYoshi87]

What a lame argument... go look at most of the cast and tell me each individual character brings something unique to the table with their moveset.. if that was the case Echoes wouldn't exist nor semi-clones...

As a fan I'm grateful Banjo is so faithful to his series... because some characters don't have that luxury.. not every character needs a gimmick. Fans want a character because we love the character.... I'm not looking for Banjo to be some revolutionary character I want Banjo because I love Banjo and want to play as my favorite Duo

 

[CosmicQuark]

Sakurai is a smart enough director to realize trying to continuously "one up" the gimmicky movesets will just lead to either diminishing returns or impenetrably unplayable characters. There is nothing wrong with straightforward characters.

Everything in this thread that needs to be said has, but you might want to call him a cereal mascot for good measure, OP.

Especially since they're like Mario, a mascot, in their case, for the N64 generation. Makes sense to just straight forwardly take their moves from the games, which is what I wanted. Outside of a few modern gimmicks (like the feather meter), it's as if I'm playing them in Smash 64, which is fitting for the characters.

 

[Planet Cool]

His Move Set Doesn’t Look That Unique. I Think He Looks Pretty Bland, But Hopefully That’ll Change As More Of Him Is Shown. Saw Some Kinda Gimmick With The Feathers But If Thats Just Something That Gives Him Super Armor I’m Not Impressed. Am I Alone In Thinking This? Can Someone Explain Why His Move Set Is So Cool, Or Can You Guys Stop Overdosing On Nostalgia So We Can Discuss Reality? I Get That His Inclusion Is Hype, But Seriously, Can We Acknowledge How Bland His Move Set Looks?

Jaden Smith, or Kanaya Maryam?

Also, I think Banjo and Kazooie's moveset looks phenomenal and not underwhelming at all. Sorry.

 

[Super Nintendo Chalmers]

His Move Set Doesn’t Look That Unique. I Think He Looks Pretty Bland, But Hopefully That’ll Change As More Of Him Is Shown. Saw Some Kinda Gimmick With The Feathers But If Thats Just Something That Gives Him Super Armor I’m Not Impressed. Am I Alone In Thinking This? Can Someone Explain Why His Move Set Is So Cool, Or Can You Guys Stop Overdosing On Nostalgia So We Can Discuss Reality? I Get That His Inclusion Is Hype, But Seriously, Can We Acknowledge How Bland His Move Set Looks?

Not sure if serious, but lets keep this anti-Banjo, arbitrary fan rule binjuice to the places such as the social and unpopular opinion threads. That way people can overdose on the "humanoid character sword wielding" circle jerk in those parts to their hearts content. And we can enjoy an athletic, shorts and backpack wearing honey bear aka Banjo and a deadly, but unorthodox, multi functioned, feathered weapon, oozing sass known as Kazooie. All working together as a cohesive unit, like old times. And all in their grand glory and glorious return to the mainstream.

Cheers.

I am personally not a fan of his moveset either.

Banjo seems to samey to me. He doesn't create a new type of playstyle to play around with. That's my problem.

Honestly, I feel a little bit this way as well. Its not a problem for me, I'm stoked that theyre in and theyre back. But we'll wait and see on more information about how bear and bird function in Smash. I'm sure Sakurai and his team will have a fresh take on the characters in some way, shape or form.

 

[C3CC]

View attachment 229006

Oh my God they NEED to base one of their victory poses on this photo!!!

 

[Blackwolf666]

I’ve hated gimmicks in character design since smash 4 so the bear and bird look fine.

 

[Gearkeeper-8a]

lol there are 72 characters in this game and smash is a series know for their characters being simple to other fighter games, hell even the complex character or gimmicks like some people like to call them are fairly straightforward, the truth is that you are salty about banjo being in.

 

[BravadoMan_13]

I don't think you're going to accomplish anything with this thread dude. Banjo & Kazooie's moveset is anything but bland. We have been discussing this for years on how their moves they learn in B-K and Tooie would translate smoothly in Smash and it has without any doubts in mind. And also, bear in mind, our nostalgia for our duo is among the many reasons why they finally got their chance after 20 years. We never gave up on them. Our "overdosing" on nostalgia has become the true reality you know. I'm just glad their design and their moves are super faithful to the games we grew up on. That is all I can ask for.

 

[DownBCounter]

I'm not sure if this is controversial or the consensus, but I do not like the turn towards gimmicky movesets since Smash 4 and Ultimate. Like, does Inkling need to have that ammo mechanic? Can't she just have unlimited ink and her ink attacks are made weaker to account for it? Imagine you're playing a match as Link, and halfway through the match, I snap my fingers and now Link runs out of arrows and has to wait forever for his bomb rune to recharge. Are you having more fun now?

I'll just never understand why we went from the straightforward movesets like Samus who never runs out of missiles to the convoluted stuff like having to juggle multiple books and a sword running out on Robin. If Banjo & Kazooie only have a feather gimmick for what looks to be their side B, then we're getting off easy in my book. I don't want a meter or anything else you need to keep track of for every single character, and frankly I think we have enough of that already.

 

[ze9]

None of Ultimate's newcomers are really that gimmicky, anyways (except for the Hero).
The most gimmicky we have are probably the Inklings and Joker, and even they feel pretty straightforward if you compare them to some of Smash 4's "excesses", like Little Mac, Rosalina, or Shulk.
Not to say they don't have their niches, but I prefer the Ultimate way, honestly. The characters feel unique simply by acting like themselves (see the Belmonts), this is a crossover after all.

I think it's too early to say that Banjo is underwhelming, we barely even know how his moveset works. We literally have 30 seconds of footage, we know what he does (for the most part), but we still have no idea how he will play. I'm sure he'll be unique enough.
At least visually, Banjo and Kazooie are already among the most unique characters, so there's that.

Of course the guy over here will stay salty even if Banjo turns out to be the most unique character in the game.

 

[Dan]

I might get heavy flamed for this: I'm happy he's in the game, but I also thought he looked kinda weird in-game (appearance-wise). I thought Kazooie's fur was a little too magenta/pinkish (don't put too much stock into this as I'm color blind) and that Banjo's model looked slightly derpy/generic.

That was my immediate reaction; it's a hardcore nitpick on something I'm grateful for and would have never seen coming (especially since Nintendo chose the DLC), but that's how I felt.

 

[dahuterschuter]

His Move Set Doesn’t Look That Unique. I Think He Looks Pretty Bland, But Hopefully That’ll Change As More Of Him Is Shown. Saw Some Kinda Gimmick With The Feathers But If Thats Just Something That Gives Him Super Armor I’m Not Impressed. Am I Alone In Thinking This? Can Someone Explain Why His Move Set Is So Cool, Or Can You Guys Stop Overdosing On Nostalgia So We Can Discuss Reality? I Get That His Inclusion Is Hype, But Seriously, Can We Acknowledge How Bland His Move Set Looks?

What a hassle to capitalize every word. Just be happy with the bear and bird!

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I’m confused how Mac is excess? He is one of the simplest fighters in the game.

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

I wasn't expecting Banjo & Kazooie to be a gimmicky fighter, a more simple moveset always made more sense. Don't understand the complaints in here and outside of SmashBoards about Banjo looking derpy either, I've always found him to be like that and it's one of the many reasons I love him. Really don't see much of anything wrong with their appearance, the only thing I see as weird is they seem to not blink much but that can be due to them still being a work in progress.

I'll add that if anyone was expecting flight, they were always gonna be disappointed in a post-Brawl timeline.

 

[shackamaxon]

As a B-K fan since 1998 who has had his fingers crossed ever since Melee, I'm ecstatic about B-K's moveset. I've always said B-K are tailor-made for Smash Bros, based on their large collection of moves from their games. What more could anyone possibly want than a faithful adaption of their in-game attacks?

I'd venture to say that anyone looking for extra " gimmicks" probably isn't familiar with the B-K series and most likely doesn't understand the characters. If you don't like their simplicity, that's okay - There are dozens of other characters for you to pick from.