Ultimate Yoshi

[Zinith]

The Eggs bouncing off the ground and the pummel animation are already talked about. But I also noticed that his back air has less hits and are probably easier to connect all hits. And one VERY brief thing I noticed was that when Captain Falcon hits Yoshi while he's performing Down B, he's not hit out of it.

Yoshi Bomb has Super Armor, or at least the starting animation.

It's been a while since I played Smash 4, but I'm pretty sure Yoshi Bomb didn't have Super Armor.

If this is true, I am ecstatic!!!

Edit: I changed the title to make it sound less awkward

 

[Fane]

they also didn't show his final smash at all, unless I missed something

so that means he's likely getting a brand new one or the Giga Bowser treatment.

 

[Zinith]

they also didn't show his final smash at all, unless I missed something

so that means he's likely getting a brand new one or the Giga Bowser treatment.

They did say all Final Smashes will get straight to the point, and Super Dragon certainly isn't

 

[AirJordans]

But I also noticed that his back air has less hits and are probably easier to connect all hits.

As far as I can tell, Bair has the same amount of hits (3), but they are definitely faster and like you said easier to connect.

 

[Sinister Slush]

It's basically Brawl Bair but with less hits. As for damage output and landing lag, that's all we need to know now if we have a zoning tool again that isn't 16 frames (fair).

 

[Delta-cod]

I think what's more important is the disjoint on the move -- Bair isn't a good zoning tool if we're just trading with our tail over and over again. Especially if our trade is just 3-4 measly percent in exchange for eating some 12-15% move. It's why I never felt comfy using Bair to zone in Brawl (that and it definitely just matched up poorly against the meta).

 

[Sinister Slush]

I'll copy paste basically what I just said in my discord server for SSBU.


Yoshi is an enigma right now. He's not in E3 build, 10ish seconds of moves shown was all we got (from the 20 second video of his) and any instances he was in random vids of other 20+ second characters stuff he's getting his ass beat by final smashes or random hits.

So not only being on screen for less than a second (or in total barely 25 seconds), 0 moves shown as well and no %s anywhere of course on screen since they're just replays and not gameplay since Yoshi isn't in the E3 demo.


Everything is up in the air, we basically have to live in theorycraft territory for a good few months until more footage is shown.

 

[Zinith]

I'll copy paste basically what I just said in my discord server for SSBU.


Yoshi is an enigma right now. He's not in E3 build, 10ish seconds of moves shown was all we got (from the 20 second video of his) and any instances he was in random vids of other 20+ second characters stuff he's getting his *** beat by final smashes or random hits.

So not only being on screen for less than a second (or in total barely 25 seconds), 0 moves shown as well and no %s anywhere of course on screen since they're just replays and not gameplay since Yoshi isn't in the E3 demo.


Everything is up in the air, we basically have to live in theorycraft territory for a good few months until more footage is shown.

True, but the changes we do see are fair game.

 

[AirJordans]

True, but the changes we do see are fair game.

He's not saying we can't speculate, he's just saying that people shouldn't talk about things like "OMG THIS MEANS X" until we can actually see more footage to confirm the likelihood that what we're seeing is legit. On top of fact that there will be inevitable changes and balances from the demo to the real first build of the game, any of the footage can just be working animations they have for any reason.

Changes, anything is fair game just be reasonable about the chances based on context/previous situations is all.

 

[Zinith]

He's not saying we can't speculate, he's just saying that people shouldn't talk about things like "OMG THIS MEANS X" until we can actually see more footage to confirm the likelihood that what we're seeing is legit. On top of fact that there will be inevitable changes and balances from the demo to the real first build of the game, any of the footage can just be working animations they have for any reason.

Changes, anything is fair game just be reasonable about the chances based on context/previous situations is all.

Yeah, I get it. I've not been going on about the implications about a change in movesets other than the possibility of Heavy/Super Armor on Down B.

Here are the moves that have been accounted for so far:
Jab 1
Down Tilt
Dash Attack
Neutral Smash (Marth's character trailer)
Down Air
Back Air
Standing Grab
Up Throw
All of his Specials

 

[AirJordans]

Yeah, I get it. I've not been going on about the implications about a change in movesets other than the possibility of Heavy/Super Armor on Down B.

Sure, I don't think any of it was specifically directed at you. I'm here from the speculation too I think Slush is just saying it in general and you specificying "yeah but anything we see is fair game" is all I was replying to.

In any case, I'm not trying to bicker about stuff that doesn't matter, we all seem to be on the same page and I think that's what's important anyway. I'm here for the speculative talk as well of course.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I don't remember seeing Jab 1 Dtilt DA fsmash, can ya think those?
Also I wouldn't say it's fair game, those can very likely change anytime. There's still another 5 and a half months for the game to be released.

 

[Zinith]

I don't remember seeing Jab 1 Dtilt DA fsmash, can ya think those?
Also I wouldn't say it's fair game, those can very likely change anytime. There's still another 5 and a half months for the game to be released.

He does Jab 1 several times throughout the Direct (including the Spirit Trains scene that also housed the speculated new Ftilt, which I didn't list)
Dtilt during the "Fake Smash Ball" demonstration
Dair during Yoshi's character trailer
Fsmash during Marth's character trailer

Edit: Oh I'm sorry, I meant Dsmash not Fsmash. Yeah, Fsmash has not been seen yet.

 

[Sinister Slush]

DA is dash attack, mostly wanted the links to said moves.

 

[Zinith]

DA is dash attack, mostly wanted the links to said moves.

Okay, here's what I found:

In the direct he performs Jab 1 at 5:16
Dash Attack at 8:11
Dtilt at 18:27
Actually, now that I look at it the move he performs at 19:00 is Nair, not Jab 1. My bad. Nair is confirmed thank god!!!
And in the Marth video, Dsmash at 0:08

 

[Sinister Slush]

That dash attack looks ugly.
The 18:27 one actually looks like Yoshi tried to fair but he landed before the move could finish so he got Fair landing lag and immediately Dsmash or Dtilt, looks more like Dsmash due to it breaking the fake smashball and looking like it put pac-man in decent hitlag.

And now since I watched the marth dsmash, confirmed that for the 18:27 part ya found it's actually Dsmash.

 

[AirJordans]

Something I will note here that some of you may already know-

Apparently, people are saying, in this game you can do an attack mid dash and have the move come out right away. For a character that maneuvers like Yoshi that could be pretty helpful.

 

[Lukingordex]

idk, I fell like they actually increased the ending lag on that DA, i hope it's now either a kill move or a combo starter to justify it.

 

[AirJordans]

idk, I fell like they actually increased the ending lag on that DA, i hope it's now either a kill move or a combo starter to justify it.

well I mean if what I was just saying above you is true DA could definitely be an interesting tool

 

[Delta-cod]

While I'm not saying you all shouldn't be speculating about Yoshi, I wouldn't take anything we've seen of him with any real sense of accuracy. There's a reason that, despite being a long time veteran, he wasn't playable during the demo. I'm more tempted to expect large changes in Yoshi's moves than small alterations at this point. What we saw in the short clips he was in are probably just placeholders.

 

[Sinister Slush]

To be fair delta, Yoshi has always got the **** end of the stick even for smash 4. Even though he of course wouldn't get cut, not being able to see almost anything for Yoshi till the game almost released was one example, didn't even get very many changes mostly small adjustments or animation changes for moves.

 

[AirJordans]

To be fair delta, Yoshi has always got the **** end of the stick even for smash 4. Even though he of course wouldn't get cut, not being able to see almost anything for Yoshi till the game almost released was one example, didn't even get very many changes mostly small adjustments or animation changes for moves.

It would not surprise me in the least if this were true, but I'm hoping there are some big changes. I would literally rather have no side B at all than have egg roll. JFC why does this character have to click so well otherwise.

 

[Delta-cod]

To be fair delta, Yoshi has always got the **** end of the stick even for smash 4. Even though he of course wouldn't get cut, not being able to see almost anything for Yoshi till the game almost released was one example, didn't even get very many changes mostly small adjustments or animation changes for moves.

Yeah...... you're right.

It would not surprise me in the least if this were true, but I'm hoping there are some big changes. I would literally rather have no side B at all than have egg roll. JFC why does this character have to click so well otherwise.

Didn't we see Egg Roll in a trailer somewhere already? Or am I just imagining things?

 

[Zinith]

Didn't we see Egg Roll in a trailer somewhere already? Or am I just imagining things?

It was prominently shown in Yoshi's character trailer

 

[AirJordans]

Yes, we have seen Egg Roll in the trailers. Most of this conversation has been about how the trailers may or may not be accurate so I was just saying in general that I hate egg roll. In all likelihood we still have it I'd say, though.

 

[Lukingordex]

The developers seem to have some kind of love for the idea of egg roll, unfortunately for us

 

[Zinith]

The developers seem to have some kind of love for the idea of egg roll, unfortunately for us

Like Slush said earlier, we can jump to conclusions. For all we know Egg Roll now has Super Armor...

 

[Lukingordex]

Like Slush said earlier, we can jump to conclusions. For all we know Egg Roll now has Super Armor...

That would be something. The fact that the move is so predictable and at the same time can be beaten by a lot of moves is my biggest complaint about it.

 

[ElMoro995]

As far as I can tell, Bair has the same amount of hits (3), but they are definitely faster and like you said easier to connect.

Bair in Ultimate is f11 like in S4 actually

 

[Delta-cod]

Bair in Ultimate is f11 like in S4 actually

Source?

 

[Zinith]

Also I noticed in the Direct during the Spirit Trains reveal (where we see the alleged new Ftilt) Yoshi does an aerial attack that knocks both Shulk and Dark Pit a ways, but the platform obstructs the view. My guess is that it's another Nair due to the direction of the knockback.

 

[Sinister Slush]

Source?

Not sure if there's actually a source, but for YT you can pause the video and make it go frame by frame by hitting , .

 

[ElMoro995]

Not sure if there's actually a source, but for YT you can pause the video and make it go frame by frame by hitting , .

yeah this is what I did

 

[Delta-cod]

Is that accurate?

 

[#swag]

I did it for nair, and it looks to come out on frame 3 again, so it may very well be. I don't know what development looks like, but maybe they just imported numbers over from Smash 4 as place holders and will do tweaking later?

What I'm thinking for egg roll is that depending on how fast you can cancel out of it after start-up, and how much endlag there is, among other things (especially since there is no initial bounce), it could maybe be used to get somewere faster than you could without dashing. Like, say you're on one end of the stage and you hit your opponent in the opposite direction across the stage and they fly near the blast zone. You could get to the other end of the stage faster to get a better chance at edge guarding.

And concerning why Yoshi wasn't in the demo build, I wouldn't be surprised if the only other major thing they changed was his final smash.... I can still pray for a tether, though.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I'm not sure what people mean with eggroll having no bounce. Smash 4 doesn't have it as well if people mean the short little hop yoshi does before eggroll and the egg doesn't bounce then take off like Brawl.

For true 0 bounces even for Yoshi's animation before entering the egg, then that's P:M Yoshi.

 

[YoshiYoshi]

I'm not so sure that down-B has super armor. In the clip provided, it looks more like the first hit of down-B connects with Falcon's side-B, Captain Falcon is unaffected, but Yoshi avoids the hit and lands the second hit. Yoshi never gets hit.

Also, Egg Roll does not appear to have any difference. Yoshi pops up immediately when using it, just like in Smash 4. I would use that to dodge and punish attacks low to the ground, those from Greninja in particular.

I think supposed changes in shield and dash mechanics are very good for Yoshi. Back-Air being faster is also a huge plus. I don't have much more to say about the character until I see some raw frame data numbers for all characters.

Hopefully Smash Ultimate is a better balanced game. I feel as though certain aspects of Smash 4 were deleberately pushed in the wrong direction towards the end of it's life cycle to ensure that people are ready to adopt a new release with a fresh slate. The game poor roster balanced chased away less comitted players. This time, there might be better attention paid to keeping whole of the roster competitive via monthly patches.

 

[AirJordans]

I'm not so sure that down-B has super armor. In the clip provided, it looks more like the first hit of down-B connects with Falcon's side-B, Captain Falcon is unaffected, but Yoshi avoids the hit and lands the second hit. Yoshi never gets hit.

Also, Egg Roll does not appear to have any difference. Yoshi pops up immediately when using it, just like in Smash 4. I would use that to dodge and punish attacks low to the ground, those from Greninja in particular.

I think supposed changes in shield and dash mechanics are very good for Yoshi. Back-Air being faster is also a huge plus. I don't have much more to say about the character until I see some raw frame data numbers for all characters.

Hopefully Smash Ultimate is a better balanced game. I feel as though certain aspects of Smash 4 were deleberately pushed in the wrong direction towards the end of it's life cycle to ensure that people are ready to adopt a new release with a fresh slate. The game poor roster balanced chased away less comitted players. This time, there might be better attention paid to keeping whole of the roster competitive via monthly patches.

Is there a fighting game in existence where the whole roster is competitive? If I understand correctly Smash 4 is one of the more balanced fighting games so far.

 

[meleebrawler]

The Eggs bouncing off the ground and the pummel animation are already talked about. But I also noticed that his back air has less hits and are probably easier to connect all hits. And one VERY brief thing I noticed was that when Captain Falcon hits Yoshi while he's performing Down B, he's not hit out of it.

Yoshi Bomb has Super Armor, or at least the starting animation.

It's been a while since I played Smash 4, but I'm pretty sure Yoshi Bomb didn't have Super Armor.

If this is true, I am ecstatic!!!

Edit: I changed the title to make it sound less awkward

I'm not seeing the armour on Yoshi Bomb, I think the Raptor Boost just whiffed. Wouldn't Yoshi be on fire if he tanked that move?
The uppercut triggering is no guarantee that it actually lands.

 

[Delta-cod]

Here's what happening.

The red spark that indicated a hit triggered BEFORE Falcon began his uppercut. This indicates that Falcon was hit by the first hit of grounded Yoshi Bomb (so it's 2 hit on the ground again yayyy).

Falcon did not successfully hit Yoshi. It hasn't been unusual in any previous Smash game for Raptor Boost to begin the upper cut but miss anyways. This should come as no surprise to anyone.

Then Yoshi hit Falcon with the second part of Yoshi Bomb.

If anything, this clip shows that Falcon actually has some armor on Raptor Boost (heavy or super we can't know for sure, the first hit of Yoshi Bomb does piddling damage and knockback and likely wouldn't knock anyone out of Heavy Armor anyways).