Ultimate Link will bomb his way to top tier! (or not)

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

The biggest change with the new BotW Link is certainly his new remote bomb. A lot of people see it as a minor difference but some others as a game changer. If you want to discuss about it, you're in the right thread. Some of the info might be a bit outdated, most of it was gathered before release.

BOMB DATA:

- Pull takes 39 frames.
- Detonation takes 11 frames.
- Throw takes 23 frames.
- Bombs have 60~ HP.
- Bombs deal 1% on hit, 7% on detonation (pretty much the same as Smash4)
- The blast radius is obviously bigger but not as big as the explosion animation suggests.
- Knockback is significantly increased.
- Despite being remotely detonated, the bombs have a 30 sec. fuse (compared to the original 7 sec.)
- Bombs will instantly explode if they come in contact with any fire based moves

Here's some ways to put those bombs to good use:
BOMB RECOVERY/BOMB JUMP:

-By Z-dropping and instantly detonate the bomb Link can 'blast' himself towards the stage
(similar mechanic to C4 recovery with Snake but with a horizontal angle, totally different from the old bomb recovery mechanics)
- It has been confirmed through trainning mode that 'Link can now recover infinitely with bombs'
Here's some early/blurry footage: https://streamable.com/o13k1
- Examples of bomb recovery:

EDGEGUARDING:

COMBOING:

Example:

What do you guys think, is it that big of a change ?
Could we see more pro players main Link in Ultimate?

Sources and ressources:
Smash Wiki: https://www.ssbwiki.com/Link_(SSBU)
PushBlock Gaming: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PSOYLeyyFQ
Bakasama: https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...ode-tested-all-76-chars.464174/#post-22768840

 

[smashingDoug]

I do like the idea of remote bomb and can’t wait to use em myself. New Arrows I still don’t understand


it’s just I got so use to how Link played in the last four games, I’m going miss the old Link. Young Link isn’t really much the same. And I personally preference Twlight Princess Link

Never could pull off the jab combo in Melee lol

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I'll miss the old Link too but i'm pretty sure the bombs will make up for it. I totally agree regarding Young Link, not the same at all.

I'm sure you'll be in familiar territory even with the changes.

 

[smashingDoug]

I'll miss the old Link too but i'm pretty sure the bombs will make up for it. I totally agree regarding Young Link, not the same at all.

I'm sure you'll be in familiar territory even with the changes.

Oh I’m sure I’m going miss it but No Z air will suck. Out of all the changes.

Loved grabbing an edge with the hock/clawshot, or your opponent when you’re edge hogging and he’s trying to recovery but you grab him with the claw shot

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Oh I’m sure I’m going miss it but No Z air will suck. Out of all the changes.

Loved grabbing an edge with the hock/clawshot, or your opponent when you’re edge hogging and he’s trying to recovery but you grab him with the claw shot

Yeah i know, recovery options sucks without the clawshot, like i said in the other thread, Glider would have been a great addition for recovery purpose (and it would go with the direction they are taking with Champion Link).

But anyways he received a buff for his jump heights (probably gonna help in that regard, recovery i mean):
''Link's jump height and dashing speed are noticeably higher and faster than they were previously, respectively''
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Link_(SSBU)

and this useful addition (could be hard to use but we'll see);
'' Link can now reuse his double jump if hit during his aerial Spin Attack''
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Link_(SSBU)

 

[smashingDoug]

Yeah i know, recovery options sucks without the clawshot, like i said in the other thread, Glider would have been a great addition for recovery purpose (and it would go with the direction they are taking with Champion Link).

But anyways he received a buff for his jump heights (probably gonna help in that regard, recovery i mean):
''Link's jump height and dashing speed are noticeably higher and faster than they were previously, respectively''
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Link_(SSBU)

and this useful addition (could be hard to use but we'll see);
'' Link can now reuse his double jump if hit during his aerial Spin Attack''
https://www.ssbwiki.com/Link_(SSBU)

All good charges and I can’t wait for to play as him. Also has his sword beem,

Has anyone figured out bomb jumping yet?

Also sorry for the mess of the last post the iPad died

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

All good charges and I can’t wait for to play as him. Also has his sword beem,

Has anyone figured out bomb jumping yet?

Also sorry for the mess of the last post the iPad died

lol no problemo.

I've watched every video i could find from Ultimate so far and didn't see any attempt to bomb jump so dunno yet BUT because there's no clawshot Link can Z drop the bomb now, so in theory you could z-drop mid air and detonate immediatly afterward.

I've heard the french commentator at Japan Expo saying that bombs cannot detonate while held by other characters (make sense, why would some player pick up a remote bomb anyway). Although i don't know if it means it cannot detonate while Link is holding it...

Maybe we'll have more conclusive footage about that at smashcon (starting tomorrow). Man i can't wait to know everything, i wish i had like 20 min to play with Link just to test everything!

 

[smashingDoug]

lol no problemo.

I've watched every video i could find from Ultimate so far and didn't see any attempt to bomb jump so dunno yet BUT because there's no clawshot Link can Z drop the bomb now, so in theory you could z-drop mid air and detonate immediatly afterward.

I've heard the french commentator at Japan Expo saying that bombs cannot detonate while held by other characters (make sense, why would some player pick up a remote bomb anyway). Although i don't know if it means it cannot detonate while Link is holding it...

Maybe we'll have more conclusive footage about that at smashcon (starting tomorrow). Man i can't wait to know everything, i wish i had like 20 min to play with Link just to test everything!

That’s another thing I think more thought should go into

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

That’s another thing I think more thought should go into

Agreed. The thing is i don't see people running to grab a bomb when they know Link can detonate at any time... seems a bit cocky. With the range of the explosion (which is frigging huge for a proectile) an experienced Link will not let anybody near it... i'm guessing obviously.

 

[smashingDoug]

Agreed. The thing is i don't see people running to grab a bomb when they know Link can detonate at any time... seems a bit cocky. With the range of the explosion (which is frigging huge for a proectile) an experienced Link will not let anybody near it... i'm guessing obviously.

Now... the thought of placing a bomb down, letting someone think I forgot about it, only so they go run to go grab it only... to get an arrow shot at their ass then blowing their ass up. will feel good to pull off

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Now... the thought of placing a bomb down, letting someone think I forgot about it, only so they go run to go grab it only... to get an arrow shot at their *** then blowing their *** up. will feel good to pull off

Hell yeah! Link is now the Hylian Sollid Snake. Speaking of Link and Snake have you seen this fight? :

If not, it could blow you away (pun intended... sorry about that ) Bomb fight! (this is crazy, there's an explosion every 2 second or so)

 

[smashingDoug]

Hell yeah! Link is now the Hylian Sollid Snake. Speaking of Link and Snake have you seen this fight? :

If not, it could blow you away (pun intended... sorry about that ) Bomb fight![/QUO


Ha can’t wait to fight Snake, hope it not going lag to much online that looks sick

Hope people don’t scream for nerf

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Ha can’t wait to fight Snake, hope it not going lag to much online that looks sick

Hope people don’t scream for nerf

Didn't see your last post until now, it was hidden in the quote

Did you mean a nerf for Snake or Link?

 

[smashingDoug]

Didn't see your last post until now, it was hidden in the quote

Did you mean a nerf for Snake or Link?

Ah I meant for Link, get someone with a brain and those bomb could be used for deadly Start ups and possibly Finishers, or lead in to a finish

How much longer does it take for him to pull on out as this time he holds it above his head,

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Ah I meant for Link, get someone with a brain and those bomb could be used for deadly Start ups and possibly Finishers, or lead in to a finish

How much longer does it take for him to pull on out as this time he holds it above his head,

I hope this doesn't create an outrage as you mention. I'm pretty sure players will quickly find an answer to being bombed away but it will surely inspire respect among adversaries. What i mean is players will likely try to stay out of the 'blast zone' and try to close the gap as quickely as possible.

I'm so hyped about this, i can barely contain myself!

As for the 'pull out' lag, from what i've seen, it's seems to be the same as the old bombs but i'll check on this.

 

[smashingDoug]

I hope this doesn't create an outrage as you mention. I'm pretty sure players will quickly find an answer to being bombed away but it will surely inspire respect among adversaries. What i mean is players will likely try to stay out of the 'blast zone' and try to close the gap as quickely as possible.

I'm so hyped about this, i can barely contain myself!

As for the 'pull out' lag, from what i've seen, it's seems to be the same as the old bombs but i'll check on this.

Watching again I think it might be faster as it looks the bomb pops out of thin air

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Watching again I think it might be faster as it looks the bomb pops out of thin air

Could be faster, i've check the wiki and there's no mention of 'pull out' speed changes yet (it's still early).

There's plenty of other interesting changes thought:

https://www.ssbwiki.com/Link_(SSBU)
(in case you haven't red them yet)

 

[smashingDoug]

I guess not that many chances to his items

Bow gets an added feature

Boomerang goes back to the old style 50-50 on this one

Bombs and now claw shot are the biggest changes, and I think I might like the new bombs more,


Think we might still get hit with an arrow in the knee by toon link if we stand upright, or will the new stance with his legs are further apart help any?

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I guess not that many chances to his items

Bow gets an added feature

Boomerang goes back to the old style 50-50 on this one

Bombs and now claw shot are the biggest changes, and I think I might like the new bombs more,


Think we might still get hit with an arrow in the knee by toon link if we stand upright, or will the new stance with his legs are further apart help any?

Not an arrow in the knee! The weak spot of all adventurers. (i don't know about Toon Link's arrows, was he able to shoot under the shield or what?)

I personally think the bow is better now as you can shoot at long distances without charging that much (charging took too long, if you consider the fast pace of a game). As for the double arrow thing, i need to see it in action, i'm not really sure how it'll work but it's interesting nonetheless.

Boomerang gets more range which is pretty cool? The Gale boomerang was neat but it was pretty hard to use the gust it created.

 

[smashingDoug]

Not an arrow in the knee! The weak spot of all adventurers. (i don't know about Toon Link's arrows, was he able to shoot under the shield or what?)

I personally think the bow is better now as you can shoot at long distances without charging that much (charging took too long, if you consider the fast pace of a game). As for the double arrow thing, i need to see it in action, i'm not really sure how it'll work but it's interesting nonetheless.

Boomerang gets more range which is pretty cool? The Gale boomerang was neat but it was pretty hard to use the gust it created.

Yes if you stand still as Link and let a toon Link shoot a full charged arrow it will go under Links’s shield,


Okay my question about the Arrows do we only get two? Like I get we can shoot two out at once and one lands one the ground but is that it?

Yes to get someone with the gale boomerang is a *****, but when you do get it, and when you land a K.O strike when they come to you oh ho! It’s all GET OVER HERE!

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Yes if you stand still as Link and let a toon Link shoot a full charged arrow it will go under Links’s shield,


Okay my question about the Arrows do we only get two? Like I get we can shoot two out at once and one lands one the ground but is that it?

Yes to get someone with the gale boomerang is a *****, but when you do get it, and when you land a K.O strike when they come to you oh ho! It’s all GET OVER HERE!

Lol! Get over here! Pretty satisfying when it works indeed.

In order to shoot 2 arrows, you need to pick one from the ground (like an item) and then shoot. You can't pick two at a time and then shoot three (that's my interpretation). I wonder if you can just throw the arrow you're holding like throwing an item (would be kind of funny).

The mechanics of picking arrows from the ground still eludes me (like i mentionned in the other thread, the 3 links one).

 

[smashingDoug]

Lol! Get over here! Pretty satisfying when it works indeed.

In order to shoot 2 arrows, you need to pick one from the ground (like an item) and then shoot. You can't pick two at a time and then shoot three (that's my interpretation). I wonder if you can just throw the arrow you're holding like throwing an item (would be kind of funny).

The mechanics of picking arrows from the ground still eludes me (like i mentionned in the other thread, the 3 links one).

But if I don’t pick up that arrow can I shoot another single one out of the bow?

Oh on the topic of bows I thought of a change they could do do Twlight Princess Link give him the crossbow from Links Crossbow training,

 

[FooltheFlames]

Frame trapping at the ledge with bombs is a very real thing >

 

[jwillenn]

Does anyone here know how soon after releasing bomb Link can detonate it? For example. Can an airborne Link throw bomb downward and instantly detonate to have the blast send him flying upward with a refreshed up special?

 

[JohnKnight416]

Did you know that BOTW Link's Bomb can damage opponents when they bounce?

An example of this is throughout this video of a match between Link vs Inkling.

At around 3:12 of the video Link throws the bomb downwards and after hitting Inkling with the soft hit of his Nair, the bomb then hits Inkling as it was bouncing dealing 0.9% damage.

Imagine if Link can create a ledge trap with the bomb by letting it bounce at the ledge in order to cover normal getups?

 

[zeldasmash]

Does anyone here know how soon after releasing bomb Link can detonate it? For example. Can an airborne Link throw bomb downward and instantly detonate to have the blast send him flying upward with a refreshed up special?

I think by Z-dropping it he can instantly detonate it.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Does anyone here know how soon after releasing bomb Link can detonate it? For example. Can an airborne Link throw bomb downward and instantly detonate to have the blast send him flying upward with a refreshed up special?

I haven't found any footage of a successful bomb recovery so far but it seems feasible, Iridium posted this tweet on the social:

In the clip the bomb exploded over Link and he flied to the up-right direction. So the bomb its similar than the smash 4, it never send you down, always up-left or up-right. But have a lot more knockback growth. So you have to be ready to tech your own bombs.

— Zeus (@Mzeus91) October 23, 2018

I don't know about the refreshed Up-B tho, i doubt it's possible to detonate the bomb after an Up-B (or Z-dropping in a post Up-B/helpless state for that matter).

Edit: I think refreshing the Up-B with a bomb is possible in theory, if the bomb automatically detonates after 30 seconds (shaky source: Wiki) it could refresh your Up-B.... in theory (but planning a recovery 30 seconds in advance is not very practical).

 

[JohnKnight416]

I haven't found any footage of a successful bomb recovery so far but it seems feasible, Iridium posted this tweet on the social:

In the clip the bomb exploded over Link and he flied to the up-right direction. So the bomb its similar than the smash 4, it never send you down, always up-left or up-right. But have a lot more knockback growth. So you have to be ready to tech your own bombs.

— Zeus (@Mzeus91) October 23, 2018

I don't know about the refreshed Up-B tho, i doubt it's possible to detonate the bomb after an Up-B (or Z-dropping in a post Up-B/helpless state for that matter).

Edit: I think refreshing the Up-B with a bomb is possible in theory, if the bomb automatically detonates after 30 seconds (shaky source: Wiki) it could refresh your Up-B.... in theory (but planning a recovery 30 seconds in advance is not very practical).

I just reviewed this Smashboard member named Bakasama who is currently working on a thread on the Landing Lag frame data of all of the characters in Ultimate and he says that BOTW Link can in fact recover infinitely with his bombs. All you have to do is throw them downwards and blow them up.

Here's the link to his thread:
https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...ad-training-mode-tested.464174/#post-22768840

 

[Fil with an "f"]

The biggest change with the new BotW Link is certainly his new remote bomb. A lot of people see it as a minor difference but some as a game changer.

Snake players certainly knows how handy remote explosives can be for stage control and more.

A few pro players already mentionned Link as a potentially high tier based on almost nothing but the bomb change
( Mew2King and Salem in their demo tier list at 13:48 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e3i-FVnP0oE )

While the damage output is practically the same, the explosion radius is insanely big, bigger than any projectile/explosive in the game (correct me if i'm wrong).

This could become very handy for edgeguarding!

This whole change is greatly appreciated, Link has been my main since forever.

What do you guys think, is it that big of a change ?
Could we see more pro players main Link in Ultimate?
Are you afraid of those bombs ?
(well you should be becuz there is one right behind you!!! )

I honestly think the remote bomb is the reason some people are going to pick Link over Young Link in some scenarios. I know it seems really weird but given time I can see this thing having some absurd confirms in a game where most confirms are gone.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

He can still kinda bomb-jump, but it's pretty bad. You have to Z-drop the bomb, fast fall and immediately detonate it. Unfortunately that means no double upB. Also the knockback is mostly horizontal instead of vertical.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

I just reviewed this Smashboard member named Bakasama who is currently working on a thread on the Landing Lag frame data of all of the characters in Ultimate and he says that BOTW Link can in fact recover infinitely with his bombs. All you have to do is throw them downwards and blow them up.

Here's the link to his thread:
https://smashboards.com/threads/lan...ad-training-mode-tested.464174/#post-22768840

Wow thx, that's a pretty big discovery! Seems to work like Snake's C4 recovery then.

I honestly think the remote bomb is the reason some people are going to pick Link over Young Link in some scenarios. I know it seems really weird but given time I can see this thing having some absurd confirms in a game where most confirms are gone.

Agreed, this is one of Link's primary assets in Ultimate compare to YLink and TLink.

He can still kinda bomb-jump, but it's pretty bad. You have to Z-drop the bomb, fast fall and immediately detonate it. Unfortunately that means no double upB. Also the knockback is mostly horizontal instead of vertical.

I don't know if it's necessarily 'bad' but i would say it'll be probably harder to synchronize (like i said above, a bit like Snake C4 recovery). Tho you're totally right about the knockback, it mostly helps his horizontal recovery which again could be consider good or bad depending on the situation.

 

[JohnKnight416]

I just receive some actual footage of Link recovering with his remote bombs.

https://streamable.com/o13k1

Seems like he can use this recovery method as many times as he wants

 

[Aetheri]

I just receive some actual footage of Link recovering with his remote bombs.

https://streamable.com/o13k1

Seems like he can use this recovery method as many times as he wants

As many times as he wants until the bombs kill him...lol

This looks like it'll have quite the utility though, if the player uses them correctly it can be hard to keep Link off stage.

 

[Batu]

I just going to let this here and let you guys blow your imagination.
https://twitter.com/TheLinkDiscord/status/1068627349766381571?s=19

 

[Deleted member]

Link bombs will be lethal!

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Really interested to see how the new bombs work out. Lack of clawshot makes me sad for nostalgia reasons because I miss the old days of tether recovery but since BotW didn't have one it's understandable.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

As many times as he wants until the bombs kill him...lol

This looks like it'll have quite the utility though, if the player uses them correctly it can be hard to keep Link off stage.

Agreed, it's a bit risky but the reward is great if you do it correctly, it's going to take a lot of time and SDs to master tho

I just going to let this here and let you guys blow your imagination.
https://twitter.com/TheLinkDiscord/status/1068627349766381571?s=19

Spoiler: Imagination blown

Those bombs are getting more impressive by the day, thx for sharing the footage.

Link bombs will be lethal!

Damn right having a projectile that can actually kill at decent % is a huge change for Link. Arguably one of the best edgeguarding tool in the game imo.

Really interested to see how the new bombs work out. Lack of clawshot makes me sad for nostalgia reasons because I miss the old days of tether recovery but since BotW didn't have one it's understandable.

I understand the nostalgia factor, i'll miss the good old clawshot too but I'm fairly confident that the various buffs will make up for the lack of tether (i.e. his jump height has been increased and bomb recovery seems good from what we know so far).

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I understand the nostalgia factor, i'll miss the good old clawshot too but I'm fairly confident that the various buffs will make up for the lack of tether (i.e. his jump height has been increased and bomb recovery seems good from what we know so far).

Yeah if it makes Link more viable that's cool. Then again I've never wanted to play a character specifically because they were simply "better" or more viable lol. Why else have I played Link over all these years.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

Nice. Combo made against an idle cpu but still... noice.

pic.twitter.com/CvJTx5xliI

— Plump (@PlumpSSB) November 30, 2018

Thx to Iridium for finding the footage.

Yeah if it makes Link more viable that's cool. Then again I've never wanted to play a character specifically because they were simply "better" or more viable lol. Why else have I played Link over all these years.

I don't know what you mean, Link has always been top tier ()

Good point. Same here. I don't play competitively so viability isn't a priority even if i would love to see more Link mains on the competitive scene (i just want to see more high level Link gameplay tbh).

Appart from viability, the new Link seems very fun to play imo, but he's definetly different so i understand maybe some Link mains will feel unconfortable with the changes at first (old habits die hard). I can't wait to try him myself! Less than one week to go!

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Appart from viability, the new Link seems very fun to play imo, but he's definetly different so i understand maybe some Link mains will feel unconfortable with the changes at first (old habits die hard). I can't wait to try him myself! Less than one week to go!

Yeah I can't wait to attempt tether recoveries when I'm off-stage for like the first...month of Ultimate.

I also never played much of Smash 4, so all the changes to other characters will be jarring to me no doubt. Very excited for the release regardless!