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Ultimate Link damage analysis - Leffen (Link) vs. ZeRo (Villager)

Meester Tweester

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Mar 27, 2015
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Let’s put the new tenths place decimal percents to good use! So I went though Leffen (Link) vs. ZeRo (Villager)’s set and wrote down every single time Villager took damage. Then I compared the damage to Smash 4, all while trying to account for freshness or staleness. By the end, I drew up some conclusions on the damage on some of Link’s moves in Ultimate. At the end is the Conclusions/TL;DR.

This is also my first SmashBoards post, so I might do something wrong.

* Link’s Sword Beam (forward smash when Link has 0% damage) reportedly does 7%
* Brawl and Smash 4 have a 1.05x damage freshness bonus
* a lot of times SSBU sweetspots/sourspots aren’t noted
* Damages were rounded down to the nearest integer in Melee, Brawl, and Smash 4. I assume they round down to the tenths digit now.
* SSB4 damage is from Smashwiki and Kurogane Hammer, and SSB4 frame data is from Kurogane Hammer



===

SSBU Link 1v1 damage:

* Source: Leffen (Link)(P2) vs. ZeRo (Villager)(P1) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2reBwOl3w8
* SSBU damage is fresh unless noted otherwise
* Brawl and Smash 4 had a 1.05x damage freshness bonus, which I think returns



1st stock

Remote Bomb Rune (explosion): 9.6%
Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 8.8%
Dash attack: 15.5%
Bow (uncharged): 5.1%



2nd stock

Remote Bomb Rune (F-throw (hard?)): 1.2%
Jab 2: 3.8%
Jab 3: 5.0%
Nair (late): 6.4%
Nair (early)(stale): 8.4%
Bair 2: 8.8%



3rd stock

Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 8.8%
Bair 2: 7.5%
Jab 2: 3.8%
Jab 3: 5.0%
Dair (theorized middle frames, approx. Frame 29-30): 18.9% (SSB4 Dair middle is 18.9% fresh so I assume Dair middle is longer in SSBU. Either that, or Dair late was just buffed from 15% base to 18% base. Dair is middle Frame 18-20 and late Frame 21-64 in SSB4.)
Nair (early): 13.9%
Villager hoop damage: 1.2%
F-smash 2 (near): 16.4%
F-smash 2 (near) KOs Villager at 131.7% (148.1% afterwards) on the left middle platform of Moray Towers when Link is at 38.1% rage (if it returns)
Spin Attack (aerial, 1st hit): 4.3%
Villager hoop damage: 1.2%
Jab 1 (stale): 3.8%
Jab 2 (stale): 3.5%
Jab 3 (stale): 4.7% (1.05x damage freshness bonus returns?)
Spin Attack (aerial, 5th(?) hit): 2.1%
Villager Dair (triple turnip?) KOs Link at 101.2% (117.6% afterwards) to the bottom of Moray Towers from the middle when Villager is at 17.5% (19.6% afterwards) rage (no rage?)



===

Damage SSB4 to SSBU comparison:

* SSB4 damage is base damage
* SSBU damage is fresh unless noted otherwise
* Brawl and Smash 4 had a 1.05x damage freshness bonus, which I think returns
* Hoop damage changed from 1% per second to 1.2% per second. But strangely, it’s 1.0% in this video of NAKAT (Donkey Kong) vs. D1 (Ridley) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkGnzlL4o-4&feature=youtu.be&t=2m32s



1st stock

Remote Bomb Rune (explosion): 9% (Bomb) > 9.6% (RBR)
Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 7% > 8.8%
Dash attack: 14/13/12% > 15.5%
Bow (uncharged): 5% > 5.1%



2nd stock

Remote Bomb Rune (F-throw (hard?)): 5% (Bomb) > 1.2% (RBR)
Jab 2: 2.5% > 3.8%
Jab 3: 5% > 5.0%
Nair (late): 6% > 6.4%
Nair (early)(stale): 11/9/9% (early, base) > 8.4% (stale)
Bair 2: 5% > 8.8%



3rd stock

Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 7% > 8.8%
Bair 2: 5% > 7.5%
Jab 2: 2.5% > 3.8%
Jab 3: 5% > 5.0%
Dair (middle frames): 18% > 18.9%
Nair (early): 11/9/9% > 13.9%
F-smash 2 (near): 13/13/12/12% > 16.4%
Spin Attack (aerial, 1st hit): 4% > 4.3%
Jab 1 (stale): 2.5% (base) > 3.8% (stale)
Jab 2 (stale): 2.5% (base) > 3.5% (stale)
Jab 3 (stale): 5% (base) > 4.7% (stale)
Spin Attack (aerial, 5th(?) hit): 2% > 2.1%



===

Damage SSB4 to SSBU comparison (both fresh unless stale):

* SSB4 damage is adjusted to be fresh (base x1.05) unless the move is stale
* SSBU damage is fresh unless noted otherwise
* Brawl and Smash 4 had a 1.05x damage freshness bonus, which I think returns



1st stock

Remote Bomb Rune (explosion): 9.45% > 9.6%
Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 7.35% > 8.8%
Dash attack: 14.7/13.65/12.6% > 15.5%
Bow (uncharged): 5.25% > 5.1%



2nd stock

Remote Bomb Rune (F-throw (hard?)): 5.25% (Bomb) > 1.2% (RBR)
Jab 2: 2.625% > 3.8%
Jab 3: 5.25% > 5.0%
Nair (late): 6.3% > 6.4%
Nair (early)(stale): 11.55/9.45/9.45% (early, fresh) > 8.4% (stale)
Bair 2: 5.25% > 8.8%



3rd stock

Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 7.35% > 8.8%
Bair 2: 5.25% > 7.5%
Jab 2: 2.625% > 3.8%
Jab 3: 5.25% > 5.0%
Dair (middle frames): 18.9% > 18.9%
Nair (early): 11.55/9.45/9.45% > 13.9%
F-smash 2 (near): 13.65/13.65/12.6/12.6% > 16.4%
Spin Attack (aerial, 1st hit): 4.2% > 4.3%
Jab 1 (stale): 2.625% (fresh) > 3.8% (stale)
Jab 2 (stale): 2.625% (fresh) > 3.5% (stale)
Jab 3 (stale): 5.25% (fresh) > 4.7% (stale)
Spin Attack (aerial, 5th(?) hit): 2.1% > 2.1%



===

SSBU Link damage (fresh/stale):

* SSBU damage is fresh unless noted otherwise
* Brawl and Smash 4 had a 1.05x damage freshness bonus, which I think returns

Jab 1 (stale): 3.8% (stale)
Jab 2: 3.8%
Jab 2: 3.8%
Jab 2 (stale): 3.5% (stale)
Jab 3: 5.0%
Jab 3: 5.0%
Jab 3 (stale): 4.7% (stale)
Dash attack: 15.5%
F-smash 2 (near): 16.4%
Nair (late): 6.4%
Nair (early): 13.9%
Nair (early)(stale): 8.4% (stale) (that much, or did I get the moves wrong?)
Bair 2: 8.8%
Bair 2: 7.5% (either the first Bair 2 isn’t Bair, being KO’d no longer resets staleness queue, or Bair 2 just have differently damaging hitboxes now)
Dair (middle frames): 18.9%
Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 8.8%
Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 8.8%
Bow (uncharged): 5.1%
Spin Attack (aerial, 1st hit): 4.3%
Spin Attack (aerial, 5th(?) hit): 2.1%
Remote Bomb Rune (F-throw (hard?)): 1.2%
Remote Bomb Rune (explosion): 9.6%



===

SSBU Link base damage:

* Fresh damage was divided by 1.05
* The original percents were rounded down to the tenth, so this isn’t exact



Jab 2: 3.6190%
Jab 3: 4.7619%
Dash attack: 14.762%
F-smash 2 (near): 15.619%
Nair (late): 6.0952%
Nair (early): 13.238%
Bair 2: 8.3810%
Bair 2: 7.1429% (either the first Bair 2 isn’t Bair, being KO’d no longer resets staleness queue, or Bair 2 just have differently damaging hitboxes now)
Dair (middle frames): 18.000%
Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 8.3810%
Bow (uncharged): 4.8571%
Spin Attack (aerial, 1st hit): 4.0952%
Spin Attack (aerial, 5th(?) hit): 2.0000%
Remote Bomb Rune (F-throw (hard?)): 1.1429%
Remote Bomb Rune (explosion): 9.1429%



===

SSBU Link base damages rounded down to the tenth:

* Fresh damage was divided by 1.05
* The original percents were rounded down to the tenth, so this isn’t exact



Jab 2: 3.6%
Jab 3: 4.7%
Dash attack: 14.7%
F-smash 2 (near): 15.6%
Nair (late): 6.0%
Nair (early): 13.2%
Bair 2: 8.3%
Bair 2: 7.1% (either the first Bair 2 isn’t Bair, being KO’d no longer resets staleness queue, or Bair 2 just have differently damaging hitboxes now)
Dair (middle frames): 18.0%
Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 8.3%
Bow (uncharged): 4.8%
Spin Attack (aerial, 1st hit): 4.0%
Spin Attack (aerial, 5th(?) hit): 2.0%
Remote Bomb Rune (F-throw (hard?)): 1.1%
Remote Bomb Rune (explosion): 9.1%



===

Damage SSB4 to SSBU comparison (both base unless stale):



1st stock

Remote Bomb Rune (explosion): 9% (Bomb) > 9.1% (RBR)
Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 7% > 8.3%
Dash attack: 14/13/12% > 14.7%
Bow (uncharged): 5% > 4.8%



2nd stock

Remote Bomb Rune (F-throw (hard?)): 5% (Bomb) > 1.1% (RBR)
Jab 2: 2.5% > 3.6%
Jab 3: 5% > 4.7%
Nair (late): 6% > 6.0%
Nair (early)(stale): 11/9/9% (early, base) > 8.4% (stale)
Bair 2: 5% > 8.3%



3rd stock

Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 7% > 8.3%
Bair 2: 5% > 7.1%
Jab 2: 2.5% > 3.6%
Jab 3: 5% > 4.7%
Dair (middle frames): 18% > 18.0%
Nair (early): 11/9/9% > 13.2%
F-smash 2 (near): 13/13/12/12% > 15.6%
Spin Attack (aerial, 1st hit): 4% > 4.0%
Jab 1 (stale): 2.5% (base) > 3.8% (stale)
Jab 2 (stale): 2.5% (base) > 3.5% (stale)
Jab 3 (stale): 5% (base) > 4.7% (stale)
Spin Attack (aerial, 5th(?) hit): 2% > 2.0%



===

SSB4 and SSBU Link base damage comparison:

* Fresh damage was divided by 1.05
* The original percents were rounded down to the tenth, so this isn’t exact



Jab 2: 2.5% > 3.6%
Jab 3: 5% > 4.7%
Dash attack: 14/13/12% > 14.7%
F-smash 2 (near): 13/13/12/12% > 15.6%
Nair (late): 6% > 6.0%
Nair (early): 11/9/9% > 13.2%
Bair 2: 5% > 8.3%
Bair 2: 5% > 7.1% (either the first Bair 2 isn’t Bair, being KO’d no longer resets staleness queue, or Bair 2 just have differently damaging hitboxes now)
Dair (middle frames): 18% > 18.0%
Floor attack 1 (lying down on front): 7% > 8.3%
Bow (uncharged): 5% > 4.8%
Spin Attack (aerial, 1st hit): 4% > 4.0%
Spin Attack (aerial, 5th(?) hit): 2% > 2.0%
Remote Bomb Rune (F-throw (hard?)): 5% (Bomb) > 1.1% (RBR)
Remote Bomb Rune (explosion): 9% (Bomb) > 9.1% (RBR)



===

Conclusions/TL;DR:

* Buffed damage by at least 2%: F-smash 2 (near) (13/13/12/12% > 15.6% base), Nair (early) (11/9/9% > 13.2% base), Bair 2 (5% > 8.3/7.1% base)
* Nerfed damage by at least 2%: Remote Bomb Rune (F-throw (hard?)) because Bombs don’t explode automatically any more (5% (Bomb) > 1.1% (RBR) base)
* Through frame data analysis I think Dair’s middle frames were extended, which is good since it dealt 3% more base damage than early or late Dair in SSB4
* Remote Bomb Ruin (F-throw (hard?)) deals 1.2% fresh or 1.1% base, which is down from the 5.25% fresh, 5% base explosion that occurs in SSB4
* Remote Bomb Ruin explosion is 9.6% fresh, 9.1% base, which is slightly more than 9.45% fresh, 9% base in SSB4
* Hoop damage is now 1.2% per second, but another video shows the old 1.0% so I don’t know how that works currently, possibly different conditions
* Link’s Sword Beam (forward smash when Link has 0% damage) reportedly does 7%
* 1.05x freshness bonus appears to return

I would like to say there should be a small margin of error in all this research due to in-game rounding, some of my rounding to find base damage, some moves being hard to tell, and some other changes I can’t explain, like in Bair 2. Hopefully this all is useful to someone and can be added to the Ultimate Link Google Doc. Although this took a few hours just to analyze one 3-minute game, I might do this again for Link or another character. Tell me if you would like more!
 

InfinityCollision

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
1,245
Admittedly tl;dr'd, but glancing at your methodology I didn't see you account for the new 1.2x damage multiplier in 1v1. Fsmash for example is probably unchanged damagewise (13*1.2=15.6).
 
Last edited:

Dendros

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Sep 5, 2014
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UT
And please realize that any of this could easily change before final release.
 

Meester Tweester

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Mar 27, 2015
Messages
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3DS FC
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Admittedly tl;dr'd, but glancing at your methodology I didn't see you account for the new 1.2x damage multiplier in 1v1. Fsmash for example is probably unchanged damagewise (13*1.2=15.6).
Oh, that's a good point. I just assumed that 1v1 damage was unchanged and instead FFA damage was less despite the Direct referring to the 1v1 as the changed one. From what I heard, people weren't sure of which one was altered. Another perspective is that I'm still comparing 1v1 damage from Smash 4 to 1v1 damage in Ultimate, even if 1v1 damage was universally buffed in Ultimate. But still, I admit I didn't account for that, so it makes a technical inconsistency.
 
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