Ultimate Hero vs. Brawl Meta Knight

Floofy Neko

Smash Rookie
Joined
Aug 10, 2019
Messages
2
#1
The most broken character of recent times against an old legend.

R1 - Who is more broken?
R2 - They fight with Brawl mechanics
R3 - They fight with Ultimate mechanics
R4 - They fight with Melee mechanics
Bonus - 64 Pikachu, Melee Fox, and U Bayonetta join the mix, and fight in Ultimate
Bonus #2 - Who is the most broken out of the five?
 

Aquamentii

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 2, 2015
Messages
172
#2
1) Definitely Brawl MK. While Magic Burst is without doubt the best move across any smash game, it is unreliable because of the whole menu RNG deal. If every smash attack was a crit, and you always got big/invincible from hocus pocus, and you always got whack/thwack KOs, then yeah, Hero takes it. But Brawl MK was consistently broken with blistering frame data, great range, and the highest priority on his sword. Hero is inconsistent with his broken tools. That doesn't necessarily mean MK is less competitive than Hero, though. In fact I think it still means the opposite.

2) and 3) and 4) Depends: you feeling lucky, punk?

Bonus) 64 Pikachu doesn't even have a complete move set so I laugh at him.
Bonus 2) I'll do you one better and rank them: 1 to 5, most broken to least, all relative to their own games:
1. Brawl MK
2. WiiU Bayo
3. Hero
4. Melee Fox
5. 64 Pikachu? (I have no earthly clue)
 

Wigglerman

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
84
#3
Brawl MK
Brawl MK
Brawl MK
Brawl MK
Bonus 1 - Bayo wins. What makes 64 Pika and Melee Fox good are gone if they come into Melee and just play as worse versions of their current selves. Bayo would be closest to her old self in Ultimate and I don't think Bayo has too tough a time beating Hero as it is. Current MK though I'm unsure as no one really seems to play either as much as their 4 counterparts so...who knows.
Bonus 2 - Probably Pikachu from 64. Then again most every character in Smash 64 was really good due to the mechanics of the game. Everyone had access to stupid stuff all the time, though Pika was up there for having some of the best stupid stuff out of the entire roster.

Bonus 3 (That I'm adding) - Hero isn't broken. He's silly...but he is by no means a Wii U Bayo, a Brawl MK, a Melee Fox or 64 anyone. It's silly to even compare him to these behemoth fighters.
 

R O F L

Smash Ace
Joined
Oct 19, 2018
Messages
587
Location
California
#6
Wait, what? I know Hero is good, but people consider him top tier/the best/broken? It hasn't even been two weeks yet.
I haven't been following many competitive opinions, but i'm fairly certain Hero isn't broken, just bad for competitive play due to insane RNG.

Sorry to sound mean, but this comparison should never have been made
 

JiggyNinja

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 14, 2018
Messages
206
#7
Bonus 4
Hero's menu is Magic Burst, Kamikaze, Thwack and Whack everytime. Is he then the most broken?
Two insta-kills is redundant and wasteful. And is Kamikaze even that good? It's hype because it's such a high-risk move, but I don't think it does anything that Magic Burst can't do, and MB just takes all your Mana instead of taking a full stock. Even if that makes you easily gimpable before your mana regenerates, you at least have a chance of surviving.

I'd put my ideal menu as Thwack, Oomph, Magic Burst, and Zoom. Maybe replace Oomph with Kaboom if you like more offense instead of a buff.
 

Arrei

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
1,252
#8
I'd leave off the instant kills entirely if we're shooting for an OP menu. They're not very good moves, the only reason they get people is because of how unexpected they are, if they were always there people would be prepared for them. Oomph, Psyche Up, Acceleratle, and Magic Burst are what I'd pick - Magic Burst is obvious, but the Oomph/Psyche combo is incredibly oppressive, granting Hero Fsmash shield breaks (after which Hero could Psyche Up again for free kills), fearsome aerial power, and the strongest kill throw in the game, and then he can throw Acceleratle on top of that to be uncatchable as well as recover for free since he knows it'll always be available.
 
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KingofPhantoms

The Spook Factor
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Ravenant
#9
Maybe it's because I'm not terribly informed, but isn't it a little early to be declaring Hero to be utterly broken?

People were saying K. Rool was OP mere days after Ultimate initially released, and now that mindset has all but vanished in favor of a more opposite consensus.
 

Xelrog

Smash Ace
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Feb 24, 2019
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#10
Maybe it's because I'm not terribly informed, but isn't it a little early to be declaring Hero to be utterly broken?

People were saying K. Rool was OP mere days after Ultimate initially released, and now that mindset has all but vanished in favor of a more opposite consensus.
Don't forget Joker being the most broken thing in the history of Smash. :mybodyisreggie:
 

DJ3DS

Smash Lord
Joined
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#11
Maybe it's because I'm not terribly informed, but isn't it a little early to be declaring Hero to be utterly broken?

People were saying K. Rool was OP mere days after Ultimate initially released, and now that mindset has all but vanished in favor of a more opposite consensus.
K Rool is probably the closest comparison to Hero that we have right now. In both cases the character has got lots of early attention due to a single, overcentralising mechanic (Armour for K Rool, RNG for Hero) but once people pay attention to how bad their normals etc actually are it paints a very different picture.
 

stingywizard

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 14, 2019
Messages
10
Location
Earth
#12
Changing his down-b to always have 4 moves makes him different character altogether. Players would reliably know when to use down-b and not need to read any of the options either. Currently there are 21 choose 4 different menus possible, which is around 6,000 which ensure that you cannot predict what will be available and must always spend the time to read. I think that considering his power level if he always had the same 4 is really talking about a different character altogether.
 

Wigglerman

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 6, 2019
Messages
84
#13
Bonus 4
Hero's menu is Magic Burst, Kamikaze, Thwack and Whack everytime. Is he then the most broken?
This is, obviously, hypothetical and isn't really useful/helpful to the conversation at hand. We all would agree if he had constant access to 4 of his best abilities it'd be a whole different discussion. But since that isn't the case...

Hero is borderline mid tier, possibly low tier in his current state. Any results he gets will be from someone who is absolutely dedicated to the character and can mitigate the complication his menu brings to a hectic platform fighting game. If someone masters being able to menu cycle with insane speed/precision and takes big names down with the character, that's a reward they deserve. This isn't a character who is going to take no namers and make them headliners without some amazing skill to bring Hero to contending levels with the likes of generally superior swordies or combo-centric characters.
 
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