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Dcas
and among others talked about Falco's Ftilt. It might not have been used as much or as well as it could have been, but DreeGon, a Danish player, does use Falco's Ftilt a lot.
Falco ftilt is great. Who doesn't use it?... It's better than jab in a ton of scenarios, and up-angled covers dumb jump-ins pretty surprisingly well against characters with small limbs.
DreeGon vs. Vibvib's Kirby (pools): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dGv0Plqvn-w.
DreeGon vs. KingFunk's Yoshi (pools): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iDMmbInI5Q.
DreeGon vs. Calmaty's Pichu (winners quarters): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YXTJagG3PGE.
DreeGon vs. Melih's Mario (winners semis): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BT88RTajF9w.
DreeGon vs. Tsun's Lucina (losers quarters): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BIeshyF6_s.
DreeGon vs. King Funk's Yoshi (losers semis): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1Rhy-sPDGg.
DreeGon vs. Melih's Mario (losers finals): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oXs7Z6nbFvM.
DreeGon vs. Laske's Pokemon Trainer and Chrom (grand finals): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLCrWr8PtHw.
As far as I know, Anragon dropped Falco, but for whatever reason, he decided to use him during Pink City Clash 2. Basically, don't expect to see Anragon's Falco in Ultimate unless he decides to pick him back up.
Anragon vs. Natsuw's Peach (pools): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ou4LiDaXEz4.
Anragon vs. Tetsuyo's Kirby and Mario (winners round 2): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtbPgEqufKE.
Anragon's Falco and Inkling vs. Tidus's Samus (losers semis): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_fgMy0L5m8.
A lot of Falco players don't believe it or not. Most Falco players on the ground fish for Utilt which makes sense because of what Utilt does for Falco; Utilt is a hit and kill confirm and can anti-air well because of its speed and hitbox. Jab, Ftilt, Dtilt, and Up Smash are usually neglected since they don't give the immediate feedback Utilt gives of land a Utilt and Falco gets to combo or follow-up with whatever. It's a general problem where people want big conversions, buttons that let them do a lot of damage or oppress their opponent.
From the footage ive seen from tournies, not even Larry Lurr uses that much. That move is only limited vs sword users who ill rather get in with a jab but besides those it works great in neutral. If you angle it down after 70, it will send people into a tech situation with a very short reaction time which could lead to some nice combos
This.
It's not disjointed. As I already noted in my previous post, for both hits, Falco's kicking leg is invincible. What makes it more special or unique compared to other two or more hits moves is that there are no frame gaps and more relevant to the topic at hand, the invincibility lasts from the start of the first hit, frame 7, to the last active frame of the second kick, frame 18. In other words, its i-frames (invincibility frames) is equal to its active frames.
Oh invincible it is, that explains why it wins it almost any situation. Which is great, seriously falco has some nice defensive tools. Still my ONLY grip with falco is that it lacks any tools to force an approach(beside camping lasers to very/slow characters), getting in can be troublesome and also, i noted that his aerials wont work on small characters or that got a small hurtbox, such as inkling, greninja, pikachu and pichu which i also think are his worst matchups.
Yes to everything, ive noticed that my performance with falco online is mediocre compared to offline. While playing with buddies offline, ive noticed that the opening for good combos is kinda tight as well but at least is me being slow not the connection.
One interesting idea I had for buffing Falco's Down B is to make it more like his Void Reflector from Smash 4, where it does serious vertical knockback and damage while also keeping its reflector properties. I doubt this will actually happen since it would drastically change the move, but it would be pretty fun to use as another low% combo finisher / extender from down throw and a threatening followup from up air (iirc, in Smash 4, you could do up air -> up air -> Void Reflector to kill characters super early).
The most you'd get from increasing the active frames for its clean hit would be 1. In Ultimate and in Smash 4, the clean hit was active for 2 frames. Smash 4 definitely needed that considering it was frame 4 on startup, but Ultimate you could argue for or against it having 3 active frames. The issue is that other Bairs have 2-3 active frames that are as fast or maybe slower than it, but Falco's has much higher knockback scaling than theirs letting it kill sooner and without needing to hit with certain hitboxes like Samus's Bair is good, but it has sweetspots and sourspots while Falco's you just need to time it by hitting with the first two frames. Another example: Fox and Falco share the same Bair startup again in Ultimate with the increased startup on Bair. It would not be farfetched to say that Fox would kill Falco for his Bair. The auto-cancel window wouldn't be as good, the angle would be different, 361 degrees instead of 30, and Fox would lose 1 active frame for landing a strong hit, but Falco's Bair is stronger than Fox's, has about the same range, and it has a late hit that Fox would probably be able to abuse considering his ground speed.
Falco's grounded Blaster has the same recovery as Wolf's at 34 frames. In the air, it has 32 recovery frames. So, what makes it not as potent of a projectile as Wolf's despite having faster startup as Falco's fires on frame 8 on the ground and 7 in the air while Wolf fires on frame 16? Besides hitbox size, Falco's lasers have very low set knockback. I don't know what it is in Ultimate, but in Smash 4, it was 2. In Brawl, it was 3, and in Melee, it was 5. Brawl Wolf's had 20 set knockback for the close and long ranged hits of the bolt and 24 for the mid ranged hit of the bolt. Ultimate increased the damage of the bolt, but its knockback values are still a mysterious. Basically, Wolf's bolts do more hitstun in addition to damage. Brawl Wolf frame data: https://smashboards.com/threads/wolfs-frame-data-wip.319745/.
The increased range is not going to happen. The developers seem keen on matching hitboxes with animations this time around and for the most part, making hitboxes more modest than in the previous games. Smash 4 Falco Dtilt was just absurd since a third of its range came from its disjoint and it was frame 7 on startup. The move itself is a natural disjoint because it uses Falco's tail, but in Smash 4, it literally had an invisible hitbox. You could make a pass for the Side Smashes of Captain Falcon and Ganondorf in Smash 4 because the weren't fast at frame 19, but not for Falco's Dtilt.
I doubt they're going to do animation changes. Other fighting games do it, but very rarely. Anyway, Up Smash's issue with hitting short characters or characters in a low profile could be fixed by giving it a hitbox below Falco's kicking leg and close to his body or increasing the size of the hitbox downward. That's the only issue with the new Up Smash that you could change since Smash 4 Up Smash was a different move in animation. In other words, hitting behind him and stuff like that would work without noticeable disjoints.
So, thing with Falco Phantasm is that it's the largest horizontal spike in the game. It's broken on paper, so making it stronger is kind of hard to do without actually breaking it since in practice, hitting any kind of spike or move that's frame +18 is not easy to do without a setup or confirm. The other thing is that Fox's Fox Illusion gained what I feel was unnecessary startup, from 21 in the previous games to 25, since Ultimate removed the ability for Illusion and Phantasm to pass through shields. Falco's kept its frame 18 startup even though you can't really hit with it since the hitbox starts behind and on him, but it's really rough for Fox to recover in general because of the increased startup. I get it, Fox is supposed to be a glass cannon, but it seems a bit extreme. Anyway, I feel like the best they could do for Phantasm is to let it and other moves that can't anymore or couldn't before pass through shields.
They already lowered the recovery on Reflector in Ultimate. Smash 4 Reflector had 37 recovery frames and Brawl had 39 recovery frames which was the same as Melee Reflector, but you could jump cancel it on frame 4, so its normal recovery wasn't really experienced like with Blaster in Melee and Brawl. The issue with Falco's Reflector is everything about it. It's the fastest reflect at frame 1, it has good horizontal range, and it has transcendent priority as an attack. This is while being a frame 5 attack with 10 active frames and 33 recovery frames. Its high active frames are part of its recovery, but regardless, I don't think they want it to have even lower recovery. That said, I could see them shaving 3 frames off of it, but then again... It's complicated. Game balancing is very complicated.
This move is complete dog**** and I don't know why they have kept it like this since Brawl. Maybe Ultimate has better linking loop hits, but its inherent issues just make it a worse version of Fire Fox, Fire Wolf, and Ridley's Wing Blitz. Compared to Fire Fox, it has shorter travel distance, I think it still has slower travel speed, and I'm not sure, but at least in Smash 4 and Brawl, it locked Falco's air speed when freefalling to a much lower speed than Fox's. This is all while having the same launch frame of 43 or 44. As an attack, its loop hits send people out while Fox's sends people in. Being able to do up to 33% means nothing when it can't kill and it's inconsistent which it kind of needs to be since that would be dumb. Fox's Fire Fox can kill with the launch hit and the late hit at least has decent knockback unlike Falco's where you need to hit with the last hit, so if they fall out, they could stay closer to Falco unlike with Fox where they're going to be sent flying away.
Most of the buff ideas I mentioned is mostly just wanting what was in the previous game which a number of playerbases are going through as well. Sheik's wanting more combo friendly tilts, Mario's wanting the old dthrow back, Rosalina's wanting auto spacing jabs and the old tethered Luma power, Mewtwo's wanting the old dtilt and air dodge etc. I'm sure I'll get used to most of the changes Falco's gone through as I play him more. Been focusing on Ridley, Sonic and Isabelle mostly so I gotta see about using Falco and Chroy more.
The new bair actually lingers for the same among of time as the one in Smash 4, since the hitbox duration and animation length is the exact same.
Well then, there must be something different , either the range, the weakspot or something, since i feel it lasts longer the downside is that since it comes later, im not able to hit smaller characters.
Frame data so far outside of Japan is spotty and not in a poor quality or shady kind of way, but it's here and there unlike Japan where there's a complete list. It makes sense, though, because the Japanese spreadsheet is not only being worked on by people who know how to look into and read the game files, but that it's being worked on by people. As far as I know and what I'm feeling from his tweets, Kurogane Hammer does frame data on his own for the most part while his friends work on other aspects for his site and for frame data, so shield stun and knockback calculations and such. That's fine if you have a lot of time, but he also wants to put as much of a complete frame data page up as possible meaning he is also looking into knockback and hit angles. Those values weren't found until recently and in general, some of them, especially for specials like projectiles, are difficult to find. He has made some exceptions like with Wolf who he is glad is back in Ultimate, but later pages are being added as close to complete as possible for him. Zapp Branniglenn does his own frame data sheets as well, but he only counted frames which is fine as it's early on and we did need some kind of reference to go off of whenever early patches hit and that happened already with 2.0.0. And then you have stuff floating around on the web, but are not being archived as well like there's knockback and hit angle data on Pichu's tilts, but it's only through a tweet as far as I know. Also, as far as I know, the most complete Zelda frame data is only on Smashboards and done by our resident Zelda moderator, BJN39.
On the subject of the power difference between Fire Wolf and Wing Blitz. Fire Wolf's finishing hit have high knockback growth and although it's not listed on Kurogane's site, I think its power is dependent on if it's being used on the ground or in the air just like in Brawl. Of the two, one of them has a base damage of 5.0% with 60 base knockback and 148 growth and the other has a base damage of 6.0% with 60 base and 136 growth. For reference, the clean hit of Falco's Bair has a knockback growth of 130, but its base damage is 13.0%. Both have the same hit angle of 361 degrees. The damage might seem low, but the finishing hit of Fire Wolf can send people flying because of its high knockback growth. I remember a tweet saying that it used to have different knockback values where it was stronger, so probably lower base, but even higher growth. This would have correlated with people's impressions of playing Wolf for the demo of the game and being surprised at how early Fire Wolf killed.
You did list its special properties, though. Transcendent priority isn't found on many projectiles and for whatever reason with it probably because they're using laser guns, all three Star Fox characters have it. Makes sense for Fox since it'd be annoying for him to have his lasers clank with anything while being incapable of doing knockback. Being able to fire continuously is something only Bayonetta sort of with Bullet Arts, Falco, Fox, Mega Man up to three times with his lemons (jab, Ftilt, and Nair), and Mii Gunner with Laser Blaze? can do. Also, Bowser and Charizard can keep their fire breaths out indefinitely, but the hitbox shrinks.
It's not really the movement buffs which do play a part in being able to jump from the ground faster and dashes, not runs, but dashes being faster for everyone. The reason is its knockback. Knockback-wise and I'm going to have to go off of Brawl and Smash 4 since we don't know Ultimate's which probably is the same, it had a base of 35 and growth of 30. In Brawl, it did 6% instead of 5% like with Smash 4 and Ultimate. So, its overall knockback is very low, but not low enough that it's punishable on hit from like 0% to 300%.
It was already answered, but to give the specific numbers, in both Smash 4 and Ultimate, the clean hit is active for 2 frames and the late hit is active for 6 frames. In Smash 4, that would be frames 4-5 for the clean hit and frames 6-11 for the late hit while in Ultimate, frames 9-10 for the clean hit and frames 11-16 for the late hit.
You've seen how enlarged his legs are during the hit of Down Smash, right? Also, like in the previous games, Falco's legs have invincibility which for this game is frames 3-8, so 2 frames into its startup animation and up to its first active frame. Remembering how priority works in Smash, this means that recoveries, so aerial moves, that go over the ledge, but are still hurtboxes can be "anti-aired" by Down Smash. It's not an easy thing to do, but it is something he has. Same deal with Fox's Down Smash, but Fox's is during its active frames, 6-7.
対ウルフ メモ
— Pikazono (@pikazono_Falco) February 4, 2019
ウルフの上B復帰には下スマが刺さる pic.twitter.com/EYKGj5nNWm
I'll end up arguing about it forever, but for anyone asking for auto-cancel lasers or projectiles, why do you think they removed them in Smash 4? And why do you think that in no other fighting game do projectiles have the ability to cancel like that?
Krysco
, this also extends to what my response to your thoughts on Blaster. People struggle with projectiles in every fighting game. It doesn't matter which fighting game and it doesn't even matter if the projectile is bad or good, people tend to struggle with them and many of them will complain about them. Smash having the ability to fight more than 1 player makes this an even bigger problem as not only would they have to deal with one projectile, but possibly two, three, four, or more. Items evens it out a bit by giving projectiles to characters who don't have them or protection against them, but that still doesn't stop projectiles being an ever present thing for players to deal with.
Thanks for clarification.Frame data so far outside of Japan is spotty and not in a poor quality or shady kind of way, but it's here and there unlike Japan where there's a complete list. It makes sense, though, because the Japanese spreadsheet is not only being worked on by people who know how to look into and read the game files, but that it's being worked on by people. As far as I know and what I'm feeling from his tweets, Kurogane Hammer does frame data on his own for the most part while his friends work on other aspects for his site and for frame data, so shield stun and knockback calculations and such. That's fine if you have a lot of time, but he also wants to put as much of a complete frame data page up as possible meaning he is also looking into knockback and hit angles. Those values weren't found until recently and in general, some of them, especially for specials like projectiles, are difficult to find. He has made some exceptions like with Wolf who he is glad is back in Ultimate, but later pages are being added as close to complete as possible for him. Zapp Branniglenn does his own frame data sheets as well, but he only counted frames which is fine as it's early on and we did need some kind of reference to go off of whenever early patches hit and that happened already with 2.0.0. And then you have stuff floating around on the web, but are not being archived as well like there's knockback and hit angle data on Pichu's tilts, but it's only through a tweet as far as I know. Also, as far as I know, the most complete Zelda frame data is only on Smashboards and done by our resident Zelda moderator, BJN39.
Anyway, Ridley's frame data in terms of frames and damage were known for a while as with most of the other characters. It's his knockback and hit angle values that I recently learned were recorded. Same with Sheik.
On the subject of the power difference between Fire Wolf and Wing Blitz. Fire Wolf's finishing hit have high knockback growth and although it's not listed on Kurogane's site, I think its power is dependent on if it's being used on the ground or in the air just like in Brawl. Of the two, one of them has a base damage of 5.0% with 60 base knockback and 148 growth and the other has a base damage of 6.0% with 60 base and 136 growth. For reference, the clean hit of Falco's Bair has a knockback growth of 130, but its base damage is 13.0%. Both have the same hit angle of 361 degrees. The damage might seem low, but the finishing hit of Fire Wolf can send people flying because of its high knockback growth. I remember a tweet saying that it used to have different knockback values where it was stronger, so probably lower base, but even higher growth. This would have correlated with people's impressions of playing Wolf for the demo of the game and being surprised at how early Fire Wolf killed.
With Ridley, its values are basically like a Smash attack's; high damage, average to high base knockback, and knockback growth lower than 100 because Smashes often do +15%, so "normal" scaling would be bonkers with higher damage-dealing moves. The horizontal values aren't listed or weren't found, so I don't know about them. Damage-wise, they have a base damage value of 16.0%. Going up, its base damage is 18.0% and it has a hit angle of 64 degrees, 85 base, and 46 growth. The knockback growth looks low, but remember that it does 18% and it moves upward, so being caught at the apex of its lift would be the worst thing that could happen to his opponent, especially if they were decently high up for some reason. Going down, it has a base damage of 15.0%, 295 or 44 degree hit angle, 50 or 85 base, and 75 or 50 growth. I'm guessing that either it might be hitbox dependent or if it's being used on an airborne or grounded target. That is to say, the 295 spike hit would have 50 base and 75 growth while the 44 degree hit would have an 85 base and a 50 growth. It also has a landing hitbox which none of the Star Fox character's Up Specials do.
You did list its special properties, though. Transcendent priority isn't found on many projectiles and for whatever reason with it probably because they're using laser guns, all three Star Fox characters have it. Makes sense for Fox since it'd be annoying for him to have his lasers clank with anything while being incapable of doing knockback. Being able to fire continuously is something only Bayonetta sort of with Bullet Arts, Falco, Fox, Mega Man up to three times with his lemons (jab, Ftilt, and Nair), and Mii Gunner with Laser Blaze? can do. Also, Bowser and Charizard can keep their fire breaths out indefinitely, but the hitbox shrinks.
With Falco, it takes if I'm accounting for the frames correctly, +25 frames to fire again on the ground and +23 frames to fire again in the air. Falco choosing to fire, stop, and then fire would have the normal recovery of 34 on the ground and 32 in the air. Most projectiles are like that where they have around 30 recovery frames. For startup, it varies like the Belmonts' Axe is 30 frames, Cross is 19 frames, and Holy Water is 18 frames; Mario's Fireball is 17 frames, Wolf's Blaster is 16 frames, and the Links' and the Pits' arrows are dependent on how long you charge them for which is crucial for the Links to get any horizontal distance. Falco can put out consecutive projectiles faster than other characters let alone that his draw is one the fastest since his projectile is frame 8 on startup at the slowest. Pretty impressive for a bird man with chubby feathery hands.
It's not really the movement buffs which do play a part in being able to jump from the ground faster and dashes, not runs, but dashes being faster for everyone. The reason is its knockback. Knockback-wise and I'm going to have to go off of Brawl and Smash 4 since we don't know Ultimate's which probably is the same, it had a base of 35 and growth of 30. In Brawl, it did 6% instead of 5% like with Smash 4 and Ultimate. So, its overall knockback is very low, but not low enough that it's punishable on hit from like 0% to 300%.
The intent with its knockback is that I think they want it to not cause a tumble for normal gameplay, so people not living up to 300% or whatever. So, it functions more of a interrupt by causing a flinch move. That's fine, but there are times as you and others have experienced where it doesn't do enough hit stun making it unsafe on hit. Another thing is that I don't know it's been confirmed, but Reflector in Ultimate doesn't cause trips anymore taking away a chance where it could suddenly be safer. Meanwhile, Pichu's Ftilt. Anyway, the simple solution would be to increase the base knockback or damage so that it can do more hit stun. Alternatively, they could switch it to set knockback instead and always have it do the same hit stun and knockback and have it be however high they want where hopefully it's at least 0 advantage on hit.
The one thing that always bothered me with Falco's Reflector is that he kicks it, but the kick isn't considered a hit. The hit is always treated as if the Reflector is doing everything. Part of it is aesthetics, but it could also be for function. There's two ways they could include the hit. One way is like with Lucas's Down Smash in Smash 4 where the different hits, in this case the kick and the Reflector, cannot combo into each other. The other idea is to combo into it like how Wolf's Ftilt has two hits, but that doesn't change the fact that the Reflector hit might not do enough hit stun. The first idea wouldn't have to deal with that since you could have the kick hit function like his Ftilt and have it serve as a safety net for hitting Reflector to close to an opponent. The second idea would only work well if they were okay with Reflector being able to cause a tumble. Tumbling won't really be a problem if Reflector never actually killed. It would just need to do enough hit stun and knockback for it to be safer in general.
It was already answered, but to give the specific numbers, in both Smash 4 and Ultimate, the clean hit is active for 2 frames and the late hit is active for 6 frames. In Smash 4, that would be frames 4-5 for the clean hit and frames 6-11 for the late hit while in Ultimate, frames 9-10 for the clean hit and frames 11-16 for the late hit.
On the hitboxes themselves, it never had sweetspot or sourspots in Smash 4 and Ultimate, but clean and late hits. Kind of the same with Melee and Brawl too if you ignored the front hit and treated it mainly as a move to hit behind him. It maybe have different hitbox sizes in Ultimate as I've seen it hit with Falco's left knee, but it also might be because of the animation change. The notable animation change is how Falco positions his upper body where he leans in front of him, towards his left knee, and has his right arm crossed in front of him. It's almost like he's lying down like with Snake's Bair, but not completely. The kick itself looks like it's reaching further either because Falco's kicking out more or because of the way his body is positioned now so that his legs are further behind him unlike in Smash 4 where he simply kicked from a "standing" position in the air if that makes any sense.
You've seen how enlarged his legs are during the hit of Down Smash, right? Also, like in the previous games, Falco's legs have invincibility which for this game is frames 3-8, so 2 frames into its startup animation and up to its first active frame. Remembering how priority works in Smash, this means that recoveries, so aerial moves, that go over the ledge, but are still hurtboxes can be "anti-aired" by Down Smash. It's not an easy thing to do, but it is something he has. Same deal with Fox's Down Smash, but Fox's is during its active frames, 6-7.
Falco's Down Smash catching Fire Wolf.
対ウルフ メモ
— Pikazono (@pikazono_Falco) February 4, 2019
ウルフの上B復帰には下スマが刺さる pic.twitter.com/EYKGj5nNWm
A character like Falco being able to put out a projectile is one thing. Being able to put out a wall of projectiles and ones that cannot be challenged is another thing. The Belmonts, Isabelle, Links, Mega Man, ROB, Snake, and Villager can put out all sorts of projectiles, but at least you can clank with them and some of them are static or have noticeable startup like the Belmonts' Axe and the Links' Boomerang having noticeable startup or the Belmonts' Holy War and Snake's C4 aren't going anywhere once they touch the ground. Falco's lasers have transcendent priority meaning you cannot clank with them and except for when it was used on the ground in Melee, 23 frames, it never had high startup. A projectile with 13 (aerial Melee Blaster) or less startup frames and virtually no recovery because it could be auto-canceled is absurd. It might seem like it's telegraphed because Falco has to hop every time he uses it, but in practice, that's still way too fast and you don't always know if he's going to fire another laser or do an empty hop, aerial, or whatever. At least in Melee it was only one laser, but in Brawl, he could put out two lasers from a hop. And once again, transcendent priority makes this even worse since the only ways you can stop his lasers is by getting hit or shielding them. Other projectiles you might be able to get away by clanking them with an aerial to approach or even grab them if they're a throwable item and in some cases, walk through them because its knockback was very low at certain ranges like with Mega Man's lemons. Yeah, have fun dealing with that.
And I'm not saying it's only Falco's Blaster. Any projectile that can auto-cancel could probably be ridiculous. Speaking of which, Young Link's arrows do not auto-cancel from a hop. It just so happens that its total frames isn't that far off from his hop air time. The total frames of Young Link's arrows is 37 frames and his hop air time is 36. This means that it takes 2 frames after his hop that Young Link would be able to act. The frame after the total frames is when a character can act after doing an action. Smash uses the term FAF, but I find it kind of dumb to need a separate term for total frames + 1 and because most Smash frame data spreadsheets do not include recovery frames or end lag as some call it, it also doesn't paint the whole picture. That said, the Links' arrows uncharged are frame 14 on startup which results in its 24 recovery frames and it needs to be charged for some time before it has decent horizontal flight . Otherwise, you're just getting arrows that arc very sharply towards the ground, so no real horizontal range which is a problem if you want a projectile with horizontal range. If not, then it can cover approaches and such because it's acting like a shield in front of the Links and (Dr.) Mario because of how his projectile is affected by gravity.
Thing is that Falco does have something similar as aerial Blaster's total frames are 38 and his hop air time is 32 frames. So 7 frames after his hop. If you want it to be 2 frames like with Young Link, then its total frames would need to drop to 33 which would also result in aerial Blaster's recovery dropping down from 32 frames to 27. Whether or not that would kill anyone, I don't know.
found a purpose for this tech pic.twitter.com/QpJttJRrV4
— Barney (@CouldBeBarney) February 26, 2019
I really hope this doesn't get patched!Oh hey, apparently this exists in Ultimate. Also included is a music version.
found a purpose for this tech pic.twitter.com/QpJttJRrV4
— Barney (@CouldBeBarney) February 26, 2019
Same here, I can't do at all, even with frame-by-frame
Can't patch it if it's fake. For this to have worked, Blaster would have needed to be able to auto-cancel. This needs confirmation, but I believe that no matter how many lasers Falco fires, he will experience the same recovery; 34 frames on the ground and 32 in the air. There is no way to cancel this recovery which goes along with most moves in this game that don't have additional follow-ups like jab combos or characters with Ftilt 1, 2, or even 3.
知らない人も多いと思うのでちらっと
— Pikazono (@pikazono_Falco) February 26, 2019
ファルコのビジョンは相手にヒットすることで後隙が少なくなります、これは地上空中いずれも同様です。#SSBU_FALCO pic.twitter.com/2WxWh8ijAm
まじでこの仕様はどうにかなってくんないかなー
— Pikazono (@pikazono_Falco) February 26, 2019
これはガード押しっぱなしからジャンプ空中前後攻撃をすると押しっぱなしのままだと回避が勝手に出るというやつです。 pic.twitter.com/M5fz4Ig1ek
If you actually buffer laser with short hop, you can shoot 2 lasers and get like 4 frames or almost no lag. Problem is the angles, first laser is almost shoot while reaching max sh and the second while falling, so the angles are not useful but you can almost cancel it. You can buffer a single laser with sh and it will autocancel BUT the angle is not useful since it will only hit big targets, any medium/small sized characters will whiff.
We've talked about this already. It's not auto-canceling; Falco's Blaster and Young Link's Fire Arrows do not auto-cancel in Ultimate. The total frames of their projectiles are simply close to their hop air times.
The math does not work out either for Falco to only experience 4 or so frames of recovery from firing two lasers from a hop. Frame 7 startup (laser 1) + 23 frames until he can fire another consecutive laser, so on frame 30 + 32 recovery frames regardless of how many lasers he fired total to 63 frames. With a hop airtime of 32 frames, that leaves 32 remaining frames before he can act again. From a jump, it'd be like using Blaster from a hop, but this time he fired two lasers instead of one. His jump air time is 57 frames; 63 - 57 = 6 and the frame after is when he can act, so 7 frames just like firing Blaster once from a hop.
Alright, thanks. Actually lasers are kinda safe if buffered properly, i mean you cant use them like in melee but i think they can disrupt certain aerials from a distance and with sh they can be used as an approach , if we could get rid of 3-4 frames (grounded) and maybe 2 from aerial , it would be amazing without relying on autocancel. Also, dair is good but it needs to come out a bit faster, same applies for bair.
I just want Nair's lower hitboxes to work a little bit better, then he'd be fine for me anyway.
That would amazing, so we can get a super fast oos option without whiffing plus having an option vs smallers characters which actually causes falco a lot of trouble.
Agreed. Short characters give my Falco more trouble specifically because I can only punish things with ground moves most of the time. I mean, usually that's better anyways, but having less options is always bad.
🅱️ruh, Falco plz #SuperSmashBrosUltimate pic.twitter.com/nUAsSG79kv
— 𝓐𝓬𝓽𝓲𝓿𝓮 (@ActiveES1) March 10, 2019
Geez. Yeah, the more I see Z-axis flubs in this game, the more my bones hurt. Nice find. Z-axis has also been screwing with Pokemon Trainer a little bit and utterly guts some of Zelda's moves. I'm sure things like that are going to be smoothed out within the year if we and the general Smash public give it enough *civil* attention (no death threats and rage please).
Thankfully, it has never happened to me in a match SO FAR. But this will get fixed soon for sure.
Yes, they are mostly used to force an approach vs slower or bigger and even then, most of cases they will be used with caution since a very fast character can maneuver throu them. Sometimes you can mix them while approaching but even if buffered, you will experience a 6f endlag.So what options does Falco have when it comes to lasers? Unlike in Melee you can't cancel the endlag when jumping (pic releated) so you should only really buffer it right a short hop. Due to Falco's fairly high short hop the laser won't hit the opponent unless they're on a platform or they jump. Imo lasers should never be used as an offensive tool because its so easy for the opponent to avoid them or punish the endlag. The only effective way I've been able to utilise them is when trying to keep the opponent away from me by dashing away, short hopping and shooting at the opposite direction.
This is interesting because in my experience, lasers give me a reason to not approach sword characters. It can be frustrating for them at mid-range(just outside of their burst range). It makes them have to choose to shield or jump since they can't reflect or absorb lasers. With this threat at mid-range, it opens my mix-ups and allows me to not over-extend when fighting for an option. I find that laser also does well against charging characters like DK, Samus, WiiFit, Cloud, etc. They can't just sit at long range and force me to approach. I feel like you have to condition lasers to work with your movement. And it is not easy, especially if you buffer a laser just within their burst range. At this range it rewards your opponent just to get hit by laser and attack you with a burst option. I don't think there is any legitimate way of buffing laser, that doesn't automatically make it like it was in melee. IMO it's Falco's only defensive tool.
I don't know if Falco will get buffed, but I do think your observations are on point. I think the reason for falco falling behind the other two is a combination of damage and mobility. Falco has to hit with 3 moves to do the damage of 1 with Wolf. That's fine, but he doesn't have the mobility required to land enough combo starters to keep up. And that's where he's beat by Fox, who has a similar damage output combined with better speed.
