Super Smash Bros. Infinite Project (Finally Finished!???)

[ivanlerma]

Is Persona 5 the only game viable for an Echo submission or can the other protags be submitted as Joker Echoes?

I heard of the idea of Kasumi being an echo for Joker, are there too many differences between her persona & joker's?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I heard of the idea of Kasumi being an echo for Joker, are there too many differences between her persona & joker's?

I have no idea lmao

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

3P echo submission: Professor Pac-Man

Professor Pac is the teacher figure in the Professor Pac-Man spin-off game. He would be an edutainment rep, and is one of the few edutainment spin-offs of an established IP to not become either ridiculed or disowned, having been a prominent figure in Pac-Man games over the 2000s and even written into the lore as Ms. Pac-Man's father.

Notably unlike Ms. Pac-Man, Professor Pac-Man has no copyright issues surrounding him and even reappeared in the recent Pac-Man + Minecraft collab. Additionally, he has a more unique theme than Ms. or Jr. Pac-Man, being an elderly teacher as opposed to just an amalgimation of feminine or youthful cliches.

His bonus fruit could be changed to different quiz answers from the Professor Pac-Man game. He could fit into Sami's trailer by being seen training new troops, or he could stop the tension of war for a "pencil is mightier than the sword" (or in this case bazooka) gag.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Third Party Echo Submittion:
EGGMAN NEGA (Sonic Rush)

Dr. Eggman Nega is character from Sonic Rush, which he is Eggman's Descendant from Far Future. He would represent Sonic Rush spin-off in Smash. Actually, his design would fit for the Fight and some his moves would differ from normal Eggman or he is more Lighter, but Stronger than Eggman Himself.

Unlike Eggman, Eggman Nega would control his Eggmobile from Sonic Rush and he would summon Badniks from Sonic Rush or Sonic Rivals. Additionally, he would fit for theme of Descendant Fighters like Lucina.

Nega's Badniks are more stronger and faster, but he has new Final Smash based on Egg Salamander, where he warps enemies into Exception and he unleashes the Egg Salamander attacks his Foes, resulting KO.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Third Party Echo Submittion:
EGGMAN NEGA (Sonic Rush)

Dr. Eggman Nega is character from Sonic Rush, which he is Eggman's Descendant from Far Future. He would represent Sonic Rush spin-off in Smash. Actually, his design would fit for the Fight and some his moves would differ from normal Eggman or he is more Lighter, but Stronger than Eggman Himself.

Unlike Eggman, Eggman Nega would control his Eggmobile from Sonic Rush and he would summon Badniks from Sonic Rush or Sonic Rivals. Additionally, he would fit for theme of Descendant Fighters like Lucina.

Nega's Badniks are more stronger and faster, but he has new Final Smash based on Egg Salamander, where he warps enemies into Exception and he unleashes the Egg Salamander attacks his Foes, resulting KO.

Echoes of fighters newly included in Infinite, such as Dr. Eggman, is unviable.

Does the character have to share a trailer with Sami? It's really limiting our echo options. In fact, I feel that the whole third party echoes sharing thing is the reason we're yet to see Ms. Pac-Man.

Yes, they will be sharing a trailer but that doesn’t mean Echo choices can be limited. Just would take a little bit more creativity to craft the trailer. Judging from our current list, most of these character could be included in some way into the trailer that doesn’t feel force. (Professor Pac-Man for example lecturing on the attack plans for Sami would be rather cute.)

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Can I submit cross-series echoes from series not in Smash yet?

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Echoes of fighters newly included in Infinite, such as Dr. Eggman, is unviable.



Yes, they will be sharing a trailer but that doesn’t mean Echo choices can be limited. Just would take a little bit more creativity to craft the trailer. Judging from our current list, most of these character could be included in some way into the trailer that doesn’t feel force. (Professor Pac-Man for example lecturing on the attack plans for Sami would be rather cute.)

Excuse Me, But Jill Valentine got her Leon Kennedy Echo and she is included in infinite as Newcomer, so why not Eggman can have it?

 

[Capybara Gaming]

I'm not the biggest Persona expert, but Yu (the protagonist of P4) uses a katana as far as I'm aware, so that's not an option.

If Yu isn't allowed for this reason, neither should Akechi who also wields a longer blade than Joker.

Joker tbh doesn't need an echo

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I heard of the idea of Kasumi being an echo for Joker, are there too many differences between her persona & joker's?

As a certified Persona fan, maybe? I submitted Akechi who has a longer sword just like Kasumi. My interpretation was that his moves would have more range idk. They'd have the same specials and they all have similar body types to perform their acrobatic attacks but the ones with their weapons would be different.

 

[Capybara Gaming]

As a certified Persona fan, maybe? I submitted Akechi who has a longer sword just like Kasumi. My interpretation was that his moves would have more range idk. They'd have the same specials and they all have similar body types to perform their acrobatic attacks but the ones with their weapons would be different.

Jokers moveset is designed with the fact he has a dagger. You'd have to completely rebalance and rework it to use a different weapon, not to mention the fact Akechi is significantly taller than Joker.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Another Echo Submittion:
Jeanne (Bayonetta)

Jeanne is a character from Bayonetta series, she is a Bayonetta's best friend and Rival and she was Former Heiress of Umbra, who just like Bayonetta, she uses her guns to fight. She could be another Bayonetta rep that would fit in the Game. Her red outfit is iconic towards Bayo Fans. While in the Game, when she was a child, she sealed Bayo for 100 years, and after 100 of her absence, she revealed to be captured by Baldur's forces and she was rescued by Bayonetta.

She would be Lighter than Bayonetta, but Faster and she jumps higher than her. Her unique Side Special is alruna Whip, where she whips characters from Far range with high damage. Her new Final Smash is Madame Butterfly, where she summons Madame and She throws huge punches and kicks at enemy, resulting KO.

The Inclusion Her would be cool, since we need another Bayonetta rep in Smash, but as an Echo. Since she is Bayonetta's Best friend, so why can't she join Smash to fight? She would be stronger and she jumps so high that she can out jump Bayo. She is similar to Bayo, but she has Rushful personality.
She would appear in Sami's Reveal Trailer, where she threatens Marth with her Alruna in Fire Emblem X Wars combinated Universe.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

A third party echo’s the latest job?
Ol’ Grunty’s right here, so let’s talk shop​

Gruntilda
(73ε)

Who is Gruntilda?

​

“It’s me, Gruntilda, Banjo and Kazooie’s big bad! There’s no game without me to be had! Kidnapped Tootie for her face so fair, kickstarting the whole saga of the bird and bear. I’m Popular and Wicked when No Good Deed comes from me, which makes me a great chracter to pick, you see? The Legend Spirit on the board, that’s how much I am really adored. I’m all about my style and flair, so my moveset’s rubbish for all I care!”

Gruntilda as Banjo-Kazooie Echo

​

“Hey, I can fit the measly frame just fine, but I don’t have a bird of mine! Not an reason why I can’t be repping, the bird and bear I can simulate with a bit of kidnapping. A hostage situation, that’s what I need. Then my moveset will truly be elite!

A Jinjo I have captured in a cage. It’s weird to use, since I’m a mage. And yet this job requires to rehash, for me to join the Smash! Speaking of my magic, oh you’ll see, I can fire blasts of magic for my Neutral B! A force-field to power through my the special to the side, as the Jinjo powers me in flight?! A fireball or homing spell, I know my projectiles all too well! I can fly up with my broom, so I don’t need the flight path to rival Hero‘s Zoom! Now what with the specials said and done, but the set has only just begun.

The Jinjo’s rash, and I’m not nice! An aggressive hostage-taker is a nice surprise. I will hack and sling and swing and slash, all my moveset’s much more brash. Me and Jinjo we are no team, I’d rather take a slapstick theme. The visuals of an unwilling weapon, who’d ever thought that could ever happen. Well, what can you do, when it’s a puppet and duo in two?”

Rare’s favorite duo, reimagined!

​

“If you’re thinking that is cool, then look no further than King K. Rool. The Rare villain, just like me, reimagimed as rival to the D. The king takes the role of DK’s foil, doubling the ape’s moves for trouble and toil:

If I were to Echo the duo of the featherbrain, then I too can get such a personality gain. While the bird and the bear play in accord, that’s not a luxury I can afford. Instead, I’m for power of mecha and mage, keep your enemies closer is my adage. Using the Jinjo failed last time, but that was not without reason or rhyme. Now that I keep one close as a bludgeoning tool, I show evolution much like King K. Rool. Our duo is that of water and oil, which to the bird and bear is the perfect foil. My echoing would very much add to the lore, and my rhyming would be elegance galore. Such a fanfavorite, a roster can’t lack, so tell everybody that Grunty is back!

But, drats, that’s enough with all the showboating: Add me to Infinite, and get to voting!

 

[ivanlerma]

A third party echo’s the latest job?
Ol’ Grunty’s right here, so let’s talk shop

View attachment 330379

“It’s me, Gruntilda, Banjo and Kazooie’s big bad, there’s no game without me to be had! I can fit the measly frame just fine, but I don’t have a bird of mine!

”A hostage situation, that’s what I need. Then my moveset will truly be elite!”

View attachment 330380
“A Jinjo I have captured in a cage. It’s weird to use, since I’m a mage. And yet this job requires to rehash, for me to join the Smash!”

”The Jinjo’s rash, and I’m not nice! An aggressive hostage-taker and her favourite surprise! Our duo is that of water and oil, which to the bird and bear is the perfect foil! While they play nice, I’m not too doting: But that’s the charm, so get to voting!”

Perfect-The Rhymes for the sentences are always a joy.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Perfect-The Rhymes for the sentences are always a joy.

“A full manifesto, all in rhyme. Coming soon! It’ll be sublime!”

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

“A full manifesto, all in rhyme. Coming soon! It’ll be sublime!”

"Good Rhyme, perfectly on my time. Guess I have to wait for nothing, I'll go with something.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Excuse Me, But Jill Valentine got her Leon Kennedy Echo and she is included in infinite as Newcomer, so why not Eggman can have it?

They were within the same trailer.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Here's an idea for Joker's Echo

Yosuke Hanamura
(Persona 4)

While he's technically not the protagonist but considering we put Kasumi as consideration who's a supporting character as Yosuke then so be it (even if her status is pushed by that damn Jane leak), plus he's the founding member of the Investigation Team the "Ryuji" of the team.

Obviously why he can be an echo is simple, he has a kunai for a weapon which is basically Japanese dagger while he usually dual wields it considering that this submission warranted a varied potential like Ken who has noticeable difference in his attack means we could make his way of swinging his weapon look unique while still has the same function.

of course if you already glance at his moveset on the Arena fighting game then you know that he's the more acrobatic out of the bunch, while also spinning his kunai for some of his attack.​

 

[Mushroomguy12]

but considering we have submission for Kasumi

Uh.... she was discussed but I don't think there's a submission for her yet.

 

[Commander_Alph]

Uh.... she was discussed but I don't think there's a submission for her.

Huh, I know I forgot something but at least she's up for consideration (even if it ultimately fail).

I don't have high hopes for Hanamura tbh,I only submit him to show that Joker can have an echo that is fairly the same equivalent.

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

They were within the same trailer.

Me after finding out that Jill and Leon were in the same trailer, but Eggman and Eggman Nega wasn't:

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Me after finding out that Jill and Leon were in the same trailer, but Eggman and Eggman Nega wasn't:

I mean it would make more sense to plan trailers AFTER the characters and not before.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Okay everyone, Grunty’s write-up is there, now vote for her as echo for the bird and the bear

 

[Tankman from Newgrounds]

Vote for Jeanne! If Jeanne wins, she'll give you new pair of Jeans.

 

[ivanlerma]

Please Vote for Shadow, He is one of the characters in Ultimate's Base game that was guessed so it'd be nice to have him here to complete that, plus he's a great character(at least in 06)

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Vote for Ms. Pac-Man. It's Ms. Pac-Man, she's iconic! Also Grunty & Jinjo, that is such a creatively absurd idea that fits the series to a T.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Honestly... it seems kind like a maaaajor reach that A. Grunty could fit Banjo's frame and B. Banjo's specials could be tied to her and C. Why she would be a clone and not a unique character. It'd be like a same series Falcon/Ganon situation.

 

[Wario Wario Wario]

Honestly... it seems kind like a maaaajor reach that A. Grunty could fit Banjo's frame and B. Banjo's specials could be tied to her and C. Why she would be a clone and not a unique character. It'd be like a same series Falcon/Ganon situation.

To me that's kinda the appeal, Banjo is a series known for absurd comedy and wacky transformations so some distorted skinny Grunty doing moves she's never done before would not be too off-brand.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Honestly... it seems kind like a maaaajor reach that A. Grunty could fit Banjo's frame and B. Banjo's specials could be tied to her and C. Why she would be a clone and not a unique character. It'd be like a same series Falcon/Ganon situation.

Specials are actually not a concern, the Down B could be a fireball that explodes in a burn. The Neutral B has Grunty fire some sort of spell, but I assume the Jinjos have magic as well. Side B is really but an extraordinary dash, nothing a Jinjo or broomstick can’t match. Up B is nothing if not a nice jump, since Grunty’s a witch she don’t need the grump.

And ey, Peach is a bit taller than the orange dame, and the Marths also don’t have a height that’s the same. A battlefield is always a bit of a mess, so I don’t really care about the frills on her dress.

And as Wario3 has already said, Banjo’s absurd so I wouldn’t be mad. K. Rool’s also got a reimagination, it fits Grunty to go for the assimilation. The frame might be the only that‘s a problem at hand, but I’ll wait for the mods to say if it can’t.

Anyway, your submission was Goro Akechi, whose blade length for Joker is also quite sketchy.

EDIT: i mean yeah its whacky but i feel all the obvious choices were already taken, i’m not taking away from any of the more conventional choices, i’m just adding one i feel would be a potent choice in its own right. i think grunty could pass as a banjo-kazooie echo because she is so petty she would try to foil banjo and kazooie with her own reimagination of the two. grunty and jinjo don’t interact in any way other than hostage taker/hostage which is their exact dynamic in banjo-kazooie. plus, if grunty had a chance to be a unique third party newcomer it’d be really rad but i also feel like there’s very much room in banjo’s own set to tell a compelling story on its own thats very much in line with the tongue-in-cheek humour of the game she’s from and the type of slapstick humour she actively participates in.

frame-fitting is a good thing to mention and i hope to do a mock-up later to see how it’d work. if it helps, she wouldnt be on her broom outside for like side b or up b, so the walking and running animations wouldn’t be based on her using it

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Specials are actually not a concern, the Down B could be a fireball that explodes in a burn. The Neutral B has Grunty fire some sort of spell, but I assume the Jinjos have magic as well. Side B is really but an extraordinary dash, nothing a Jinjo or broomstick can’t match. Up B is nothing if not a nice jump, since Grunty’s a witch she don’t need the grump.

And ey, Peach is a bit taller than the orange dame, and the Marths also don’t have a height that’s the same. A battlefield is always a bit of a mess, so I don’t really care about the frills on her dress.

And as Wario3 has already said, Banjo’s absurd so I wouldn’t be mad. K. Rool’s also got a reimagination, it fits Grunty to go for the assimilation. The frame might be the only that‘s a problem at hand, but I’ll wait for the mods to say if it can’t.

Anyway, your submission was Goro Akechi, whose blade length for Joker is also quite sketchy

Then wouldn’t she just be a semi-clone?

We have one final Echo slot for a third party echo but including one just to add in a character as a semi-clone akin to Isabelle seems really a reach.

I think people fail to grasp that ideas behind an Echo is to include a character that is largely similar to one of the base fighters in terms of stats and proportions but can also have moves affiliated with that character. That’s why Daisy and Ken works so well in Ultimate and, in Infinite, Octoling, Leon, and Impa. I understand the desire to include a character that seems to be the opposite idea of an Echo Fighter as an Echo fighter as a new thing but getting far too off that would lead to a semi-clone.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Then wouldn’t she just be a semi-clone?

We have one final Echo slot for a third party echo but including one just to add in a character as a semi-clone akin to Isabelle seems really a reach.

I think people fail to grasp that ideas behind an Echo is to include a character that is largely similar to one of the base fighters in terms of stats and proportions but can also have moves affiliated with that character. That’s why Daisy and Ken works so well in Ultimate and, in Infinite, Octoling, Leon, and Impa. I understand the desire to include a character that seems to be the opposite idea of an Echo Fighter as an Echo fighter as a new thing but getting far too off that would lead to a semi-clone.

The moves would functionally be the exact same though, just visually fitted for Grunty, so I’m not advocating for a semi-clone like Isabelle at all. These visual updates would be more than the current Echo Fighters’ approach of “Change something red in something blue” but there’s a big difference between what I propose Grunty to be and Isabelle’s hard, functional changing of moves like going from Lloyd Rocket to a Fishing Rod.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I will admit, Grunty seems like a good candidate for a King Dedede based Echo but, that’s just me. She’s iconic,important to the series, has appeal, and is fairly relevant. She could potentially fit the bill

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

I just think she'd have more potential as a unique character over an echo just because she can submitted right now but I guess the senate will decide her fate.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

As for possible others, Kasumi for sure. I was about to add her and I would love to see her get in as a Joker Echo.

Mecha Sonic could also work as well as a watered down Tails.

Had we not included Mokujin and Tetsujin as enemies, they also could have been added.

A case could be made for Female version of Hero, Heroine and different protags of spin-off Minecraft games.

So yeah, most have been taken but a few are still viable.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I’d rather not go into the territory of cross-series Echoes, and I honestly fail to see how Dedede’s moves are a closer match to Gruntilda than Banjo’s simple special moves and mostly bird-motivated normals.

Here’s my idea for Grunty’s specials:

Neutral B: Broom Blaster
Grunty takes out her broom (hammerspace) and starts shooting spells with it. These spells are really just green bullet-like spheres like Kazooie’s eggs, but reskinned to resemble her spells in her Banjo-Kazooie boss fight\

Side B: Jinjo Wing
The Jinjo enchants Grunty with their power as Grunty charges forward with her broom. This exhausts the Jinjo, prompting Grunty to swap out the Jinjo for a different color one. Since there’s only five Jinjos, Grunty can only use this move five times (or four times, if the different Jinjos are then used throughout her whole set

Up B: Witch Jump
Grunty and Jinjo jump up thanks to Grunty’s magic

Down B: Fireball
Grunty takes out a fireball, which acts exactly like the grenade

In short, Grunty is not a semi-clone and can Echo most if not all Banjo’s moves just fine. Echoes always lose potential. Dark Samus had an Assist Trophy full of different moves, Daisy had spin-off abilities she doesn’t use in Smash and Dark Pit has to forego an arsenal of personal weapons in favor of the bow. I think that, like K. Rool as said in the Designing For video, Grunty echoing Banjo can actually add something to the character in a tongue-in-cheek way befitting the games’ narrative style, and considering we’re close to the end of the game, I don’t see an awful lot of chances for her to be fully unique. If someone wants to make a case for a different character, be my guest, but I went for something in a different direction that I think is fitting and fun. Plenty of options for those wanting a more traditional Echo anyway

 

[Krookodilian]

I can see a case (not neccesarily a good one) being made for the specials, as they're essentially just a dash, a high jump, and projectiles, but I can't really see Banjo's normals working. Particularly up tilt, which is a kick after being lifted by Kazooie, Dash Attack, which is a body roll, Down Smash, which is a wing slam from Kazooie, Neutral Air, which is a Wing Spin from Kazooie, Forward Air, which is a Mario Punch, and Up Air, which is a wing flap from Kazooie. Not to mention every move has animations for Kazooie who's in Banjo's backpack which would need to be reworked. Even if we grant Grunty somehow has a Caged Jinjo, which would be quite a stretch in the first place, It couldn't replicate Kazooie's attacks or animations since its in a cage, Grunty doesn't have a backpack and Jinjos dont even have wings.

Grunty is a bent over fat witch who flies on a broom using magic, and we're wanting to put her over an athletic bear who fights in tandem with a bird in his backpack. We've included some wacky picks but this is too much of a stretch for me. In concept its easy to say this one move would be replaced by magic, and that her proportions would get magically fitted to Banjo's, but in execution I can't see this working at all.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I believe the idea is outlandish, but technically workable. If the council were to decide otherwise I have no qualms of whipping up something else, though.

EDIT: would a jinjo & jinjo duo work better?

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Gruntilda as a Banjo echo is acceptable. I agree it’s pretty outlandish and doesn’t really work from my perspective despite the evidence being put forth. The one thing I can’t get around is that Grunty is primarily known for flying around in a broomstick which would translate well in the idle stance when tied with Banjo unless we have her just standing there.

 

[WeirdChillFever]

I’ll tale this as the very technical win it is, though I would understand any frustration that arised from my bullheadedness around this concept.

 

[GolisoPower]

I mean, the Broomstick could turn Gruntilda into a Chrom-style Echo where she has a Fox-style multi-directional recovery move if I'm being honest.

 

[Janx_uwu]

Wait, I’m allowed to submit Mecha Sonic? I don’t understand it but I will certainly take advantage of this chance!
Third-party Echo: Mecha Sonic

A robot copy of Sonic the Hedgehog, Mecha Sonic was seemingly created in an effort to make a stronger, sturdier, somewhat slower version of Metal Sonic. He acted as the final boss of Sonic and Knuckles’ Sky Sanctuary Zone, for both characters. He’s quite the unique character, being more militaristic in his design than many other Eggman robots from the Classic era, looking more like something that might come out of the mid-2000’s Sonic games. He is also unique because he can go Super just by standing on the Master Emerald. He has never reappeared since Sonic 3 and Knuckles, only making cameos and appearing in the few rereleases of the game.

HOWEVER, Mecha Sonic got a boost, both in popularity and badassness, when Super Mario Bros Z-a sprite fanimation starring characters from the Super Mario and Sonic series, with narrative and action influence from DBZ-was created and uploaded to the internet by Mark Haynes. Mecha Sonic was re-imagined as a fusion between Metal Sonic, Silver Sonic 2.0, and a fan made metal I forget the name and creator of. He was characterized as a ruthless, brutal, emotionless conquerer of worlds who wiped out Sonic’s home planet in a day, leaving only Sonic and Shadow. This series proves that even a clunky looking character like Mecha can look beautiful in an action packed environment. The series has amassed millions of views, and given inspiration to hundreds, if not thousands of young artists. It may be strange to make such a large point about a (really, really good) fanfiction in a serious echo submission, but to be honest, more people probably know Mecha Sonic from that awesome sprite animation that they watched as a kid, not as the final boss to a Genesis game that hardly gets re-released. He got transformed from a one-off boss in a 90's Sonic game to a cultural icon for Generation Z. (Ok, maybe not THAT big, but still, he's very popular among said Gen Z due to the animation.)

As for how he would play, Mecha Sonic would be an echo of Sonic with very little differences between them-however, Mecha’s animations would be somewhat more brutal to coincide with his more militaristic design. Nothing in his moveset or appearance would be directly based on the aforementioned animation to avoid Smash gray area.

Some may argue that Mecha Sonic's frame doesn't really fit Sonic's but to that I say we haven't really seen this character in the third dimension yet, so he could be reimagined a la Pit in Brawl-made somewhat skinnier to fit better with Sonic's acrobatic animations, but still retaining that intimidating aura from his initial design.

Should he get in? Proabably not. But I mean...just look at this dude and tell me with a straight face you don't want to play as him in a Smash game. He's so freaking cool!!