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Twitch Contributes Over $14,000 Towards Apex World Circuit

The Derrit

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Today is a big day for Melee fans. This year's Apex World Series is fast approaching, and Twitch is once again getting in on the action. Not only is Twitch adding $14,000 to the total series payout, each of the fourteen qualifying players will be flown out to the Apex finals and housed on Twitch's dime.


Apex 2015 - Powered by Twitch
Twitch has been supportive of the Melee scene for some time - for those who aren't aware, this is the fourth consecutive year Twitch has sponsored the Apex Series. One of the biggest voices of the Melee community, Bobby "Scar" Scarnewman, even works there. It's great news to hear that Twitch is looking to help Melee solidify its place as a healthy competitive community, and we here at Smashboards look forward to their continued involvement.

Twitch: The Best Smash Lives Here
For more information on Apex and Twitch's involvement with this year's event, click here for the official press release.

Are you excited for Apex 2015? Who do you think the fourteen qualifiers will be? Make your voice heard in the comments below!

The Derrit can't wait for Apex 2015 to come - he might even compete! Chat with him on Twitter at @TheDerrit.
 

WT!

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I just wish the event didn't overlap so much school. Then I could go.
 

SupremeSuperiorStick

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This is the first Apex where Smash 3DS(Probably Smash U too) will be played. Smash4 getting some attention too wouldn't hurt :)
 
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Jack Kieser

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being new doesn't mean anything, If we see huge metagame boosts, then I guess. And of course it will be at the tournament.
What I worry about is the Melee effect. What I worry about is that, since Smash 4 is the SF4 of Smash, slower paced, less combo oriented, more about out-thinking and out-playing the opponent than getting in, getting a combo, rinse and repeat (yes, I know that's a simplification), that SmashBoards, as an institution, won't support it. They won't ASK Twitch to support Smash 4, they won't ASK Mr. Wizard to include Smash 4 at EVO, they won't advertise Smash 4 events as hardly or widely because Melee is the game that the site supports.

Ok, that's great that Twitch gave all this money to APEX. Why isn't some of that used explicitly for Smash 4? Why does the article above go out of its way to mention Melee (and Twitch's support of it and Scar being a Melee caster, because I guess he hasn't been casting FOR NINTENDO and Smash 4 lately)? It worries me that we're on the door of Smash 4 being released on consoles, and yet, we've heard nothing about how it will be supported early on to build that playerbase and community necessary to keep the game running. Not even an admin post from AZ saying "hey, so here's our admin plans for helping Smash 4 succeed". Yet, here's $14k for Melee. Suffice it to say, I'm not HORRIBLY reassured by this.
 
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MudkipUniverse

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What I worry about is the Melee effect. What I worry about is that, since Smash 4 is the SF4 of Smash, slower paced, less combo oriented, more about out-thinking and out-playing the opponent than getting in, getting a combo, rinse and repeat (yes, I know that's a simplification), that SmashBoards, as an institution, won't support it. They won't ASK Twitch to support Smash 4, they won't ASK Mr. Wizard to include Smash 4 at EVO, they won't advertise Smash 4 events as hardly or widely because Melee is the game that the site supports.

Ok, that's great that Twitch gave all this money to APEX. Why isn't some of that used explicitly for Smash 4? Why does the article above go out of its way to mention Melee (and Twitch's support of it and Scar being a Melee caster, because I guess he hasn't been casting FOR NINTENDO and Smash 4 lately)? It worries me that we're on the door of Smash 4 being released on consoles, and yet, we've heard nothing about how it will be supported early on to build that playerbase and community necessary to keep the game running. Not even an admin post from AZ saying "hey, so here's our admin plans for helping Smash 4 succeed". Yet, here's $14k for Melee. Suffice it to say, I'm not HORRIBLY reassured by this.
You kinda have a point, no support for the early metagame...
 

Gam3rALO

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I do wish smash4 gets some supported. You still never know..Maybe smash4 will be bigger than melee. (I hope so!)

But I understand why melee is getting it.
 

Scourge The Hedgehog

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Pretty sure Smash 4 is going to be played there however they are only doing the qualifier points and bonus pots for Melee. Understandable. Apex hasn't forgotten about the new game. Excited that they are "willing" to have the games co-exist at this tournament for sure. Now to get EVO on board.
 

Shoto

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Twitch's decision. It's up to the community to decide whether or not it receives support. So far the game has hardly developed a metagame, so just give it a bit.
 

Jack Kieser

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Unfortunately, I foresee smash 4 having to work its own way up.
Read: "If we don't support the game because it's not exactly what we want, when it inevitably fails, we can blame it on not being exactly what we wanted, instead of on anything WE did, because, hey, it should have made it on its own unsupported legs. It's not our fault if we neuter the game by explicitly supporting one game over another, thus creating a systemic, official, administrator-sponsored economic reason to choose one game over another, regardless of the inherent gameplay draws of either game! It's the game's fault for not overcoming the economic hurdles that we totally didn't put in front of it, those were put there by someone else, promise."
 

Acryte

Smash Ace
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Messages
986
What I worry about is the Melee effect. What I worry about is that, since Smash 4 is the SF4 of Smash, slower paced, less combo oriented, more about out-thinking and out-playing the opponent than getting in, getting a combo, rinse and repeat (yes, I know that's a simplification), that SmashBoards, as an institution, won't support it. They won't ASK Twitch to support Smash 4, they won't ASK Mr. Wizard to include Smash 4 at EVO, they won't advertise Smash 4 events as hardly or widely because Melee is the game that the site supports.

Ok, that's great that Twitch gave all this money to APEX. Why isn't some of that used explicitly for Smash 4? Why does the article above go out of its way to mention Melee (and Twitch's support of it and Scar being a Melee caster, because I guess he hasn't been casting FOR NINTENDO and Smash 4 lately)? It worries me that we're on the door of Smash 4 being released on consoles, and yet, we've heard nothing about how it will be supported early on to build that playerbase and community necessary to keep the game running. Not even an admin post from AZ saying "hey, so here's our admin plans for helping Smash 4 succeed". Yet, here's $14k for Melee. Suffice it to say, I'm not HORRIBLY reassured by this.
You realize that there were multiple points when the community, including AZ had made a point to 'let melee die' and move on to the next game right? Which had significant backlash, and for good reason. Apex supports a ton of different games, and the pot bonuses probably apply to most of them.

You don't have to force a new game's community to grow. New games form communities automatically through their popularity. People will play it competitively if they feel like proving they are better than others, and if they have no desire for that, there's little reason in forcing them to do so. Why are you worried about smash 4's development? The game should take care of that on it's own, we aren't talking about a 13 year old game man.
 
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Djent

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@ Jack Kieser Jack Kieser is mopping this thread up nicely. I acknowledge his concerns, but am not going to be so nice:

Smash community:
"#OneUnit guys! Stop bashing everyone else's games. Let's all work together to make Smash as a whole grow!"
*Twitch steps in*
"Oh look, money! Better make sure it all goes to the one game that deserves it the most! Long live Melee!"

Here we have an example of manipulative, dishonest pluralist rhetoric that promises positive outcomes for everyone, but ultimately acts as if each game's success is zero sum. The community behaves as if the closest we can come to being #OneUnit is by creating conditions that tacitly ensure the non-flagship games will wither in the margins.
 
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Jack Kieser

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You realize that there were multiple points when the community, including AZ had made a point to 'let melee die' and move on to the next game right? Which had significant backlash, and for good reason. Apex supports a ton of different games, and the pot bonuses probably apply to most of them.

You don't have to force a new game's community to grow. New games form communities automatically through their popularity. People will play it competitively if they feel like proving they are better than others, and if they have no desire for that, there's little reason in forcing them to do so. Why are you worried about smash 4's development? The game should take care of that on it's own, we aren't talking about a 13 year old game man.
The problem I have is with the administrators of the boards, who at least in theory are platform-agnostic, going out of their way to broker sponsorship deals with large organizations to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, then applying that money in an imbalanced way that artificially props up one game over another.

Yes, I get that Smash 4 is new, but that's exactly WHY, if we're going to have cash prizes for it right now (and as much as I wouldn't like that, it looks like that's what will happen), it's imperative that we support it with pot infusions and bonuses in the early game, to draw as many players as we can.

The admins getting $14k from Twitch and giving it all (from the sounds of it) to Melee is atrocious, biased, unfair, and a betrayal of our trust of them, as unbiased stewards of ALL Smash games.
 

shapular

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Smash 4 sure as hell better be getting money than this. Anybody who supports Melee over Smash 4 is cancer. Smash 4 is already a better game and anybody who believes otherwise is delusional and stuck in the past.
 

Acryte

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Smash 4 sure as hell better be getting money than this. Anybody who supports Melee over Smash 4 is cancer. Smash 4 is already a better game and anybody who believes otherwise is delusional and stuck in the past.
You have some serious issues man. Relax.
 
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Gam3rALO

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Smash 4 sure as hell better be getting money than this. Anybody who supports Melee over Smash 4 is cancer. Smash 4 is already a better game and anybody who believes otherwise is delusional and stuck in the past.
Nope. Not true. Supporting melee is NOT a bad thing, it is because of their style of play. Yes Smash4 is a great game also but that gives no reason to bash on melee. I respect melee even though I like smash4 better too (Because I'm a noob who can't do advanced stuff:(). Melee is going to be here for a long time for having advanced tech and mechanics that make the competitive scene HUGE. Melee is the main reason the smash community is so huge so let's not bash it...
 
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D

Deleted member 245254

Guest
The problem I have is with the administrators of the boards, who at least in theory are platform-agnostic, going out of their way to broker sponsorship deals with large organizations to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, then applying that money in an imbalanced way that artificially props up one game over another.

Yes, I get that Smash 4 is new, but that's exactly WHY, if we're going to have cash prizes for it right now (and as much as I wouldn't like that, it looks like that's what will happen), it's imperative that we support it with pot infusions and bonuses in the early game, to draw as many players as we can.

The admins getting $14k from Twitch and giving it all (from the sounds of it) to Melee is atrocious, biased, unfair, and a betrayal of our trust of them, as unbiased stewards of ALL Smash games.
I'm mostly inclined to agree with you outright but before I do I think it's important to clarify a few things from the article. Did Twitch donate the money with the intent of it going towards melee, and thus, the Apex admins and so forth are simply following through with Twitch's desire, or did Apex effectively pool sponsorship money, then make a calculated decision to throw it all at Melee? This question is really what matters before I take a side.


If it's the former, then I'm not super surprised or jarred by this information. Twitch is supporting a game that has proven itself in the past to be a platform for significant viewership, which is how Twitch ticks. It's really no surprise at all.

However, if it's the latter (as you seem to be implying), then I would have to agree with your sentiment. It's absolutely true that a games quality has the ability to speak for itself but we aren't supposed to make all of our franchises's games go through what Melee did to get to where it is, just simply because Melee was forced to do it. That's truly unfair to the players of said games. Whether anyone should choose to believe it or not, these kinds of situations require risk. Smash 4 needs a good shot at the limelight, and such a thing will help get the cogs spinning for a consistent and constantly improving meta-game paired with determined & competitive players that will lead to the exciting type of developments we've had to watch in only Melee the past forever years.

If Smash 4 gets no support, it will die an early death due to nothing but skepticism and bittered pasts (looking back to Brawl), which is profoundly immature, in my opinion.
 
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Acryte

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The problem I have is with the administrators of the boards, who at least in theory are platform-agnostic, going out of their way to broker sponsorship deals with large organizations to the tune of tens of thousands of dollars, then applying that money in an imbalanced way that artificially props up one game over another.

Yes, I get that Smash 4 is new, but that's exactly WHY, if we're going to have cash prizes for it right now (and as much as I wouldn't like that, it looks like that's what will happen), it's imperative that we support it with pot infusions and bonuses in the early game, to draw as many players as we can.

The admins getting $14k from Twitch and giving it all (from the sounds of it) to Melee is atrocious, biased, unfair, and a betrayal of our trust of them, as unbiased stewards of ALL Smash games.
I kinda feel you but the difference is this:

1) The Melee community put in work to establish and maintain those connections. The money that is donated is taking advantage of their hard work.

2) There is nothing stopping you or any other smashers from contacting Alex Strife, or anyone else for that matter who have connections (including likely support from Nintendo which SSBM will have limited support for as of Smash4's release in order to promote Smash4). Alex has even said in video form that people whine about these connections but no one even asks or actively seeks them out.

3. By all means, the Smash 4 community just needs to learn something from the Melee community: Mainly, get organized and take advantage of opportunities to grow. Certainly it won't be a problem for Smash 4 to grow as of now, but for future scenes to thrive it will eventually need this type of community persistence and passion if it wants to gain this type of support.
 
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Jack Kieser

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I'm mostly inclined to agree with you outright but before I do I think it's important to clarify a few things from the article. Did Twitch donate the money with the intent of it going towards melee, and thus, the Apex admins and so forth are simply following through with Twitch's desire, or did Apex effectively pool sponsorship money, then make a calculated decision to throw it all at Melee? This question is really what matters before I take a side.


If it's the former, then I'm not super surprised or jarred by this information. Twitch is supporting a game that has proven itself in the past to be a platform for significant viewership, which is how Twitch ticks. It's really no surprise at all.

However, if it's the latter (as you seem to be implying), then I would have to agree with your sentiment. It's absolutely true that a games quality has the ability to speak for itself but we aren't supposed to make all of our franchises's games go through what Melee did to get to where it is, just simply because Melee was forced to do it. That's truly unfair to the players of said games. Whether anyone should choose to believe it or not, these kinds of situations require risk. Smash 4 needs a good shot at the limelight, and such a thing will help get the cogs spinning for a consistent and constantly improving meta-game paired with determined & competitive players that will lead to the exciting type of developments we've had to watch in only Melee the past forever years.

If Smash 4 gets no support, it will die an early death due to nothing but skepticism and bittered pasts (looking back to Brawl), which is profoundly immature, in my opinion.

Absolutely, 100%, yes, can't agree more. The reason I'm concerned is because, without quoting bits and pieces of multiple sentences and making this post look like garbage, the OP says that Twitch donated to the "APEX series" and that they are supporting "the series", which, to the extent of my knowledge, APEX runs multiple games, and presumably will, or at least CAN, run Smash 4. Nowhere in the OP does it claim that Twitch donated money specifically to Melee itself, only to the series, which implies that the series can choose to which games the money is supplied.

If this is wrong, and Twitch specifically said "you may only use these funds for Melee", that's one thing, which still makes me wonder, did admins try to negotiate that to include Smash 4, or did theyjust let Twitch dictate terms because $14k is a large amaount of money, and **** Smash 4 if it means getting that much, we'll do anything you say. Which is ALSO a bad thing, and troubling. I don't exactly like the thought of us allowing any sponsor who pays sufficiently enough money to buy our admins and their game allegiances.

I kinda feel you but the difference is this:

1) The Melee community put in work to establish and maintain those connections. The money that is donated is taking advantage of their hard work.
"Melee had it hard, so damn it, Smash 4 should, too". That's not how family acts, and we go through great pains to make us all seem so freaking familial when it's getting $90k raised to get Melee into EVO. Yet, when it comes to supporting the new scene, screw them, they have to stand on their own legs.

2) There is nothing stopping you or any other smashers from contacting Alex Strife, or anyone else for that matter who have connections (including likely support from Nintendo which SSBM will have limited support for as of Smash4's release in order to promote Smash4). Alex has even said in video form that people whine about these connections but no one even asks or actively seeks them out.
Yes, because I'm == Twitch, and can donate $14k to Smash 4. That's just an excuse to explicitly support one game over another, not negotiate equally for both games, then blame the results on other people.

3. By all means, the Smash 4 community just needs to learn something from the Melee community: Mainly, get organized and take advantage of opportunities to grow. Certainly it won't be a problem for Smash 4 to grow as of now, but for future scenes to thrive it will eventually need this type of community persistence and passion if it wants to gain this type of support.
We're not supposed to be separate communities. It's ALL supposed to be Smash. You're just proving my point. We're all one community when it comes to supporting Melee, but we're separate communities when it comes to supporting Smash 4, and THEY have to do everything themselves and learn how to be more like Melee before they deserve help.
 
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Acryte

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986
I don't exactly like the thought of us allowing any sponsor who pays sufficiently enough money to buy our admins and their game allegiances.
Not exactly sure what that last part means. Admins have not been bribed by sponsors to support specific games, and if that was the case, it would just be the sponsor paying to support the game of the sponsor's choice which is perfectly acceptable. The rest of your post made perfect sense but this last sentence doesn't make much sense to me.
 
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D

Deleted member 245254

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I kinda feel you but the difference is this:

1) The Melee community put in work to establish and maintain those connections. The money that is donated is taking advantage of their hard work.
Fair enough. However, you should read the below.

2) There is nothing stopping you or any other smashers from contacting Alex Strife, or anyone else for that matter who have connections (including likely support from Nintendo which SSBM will have limited support for as of Smash4's release in order to promote Smash4). Alex has even said in video form that people whine about these connections but no one even asks or actively seeks them out.
This is a tired argument. "Do it yourself". It really just doesn't work like that. Melee has had the benefit of more than a decade of time to be heard, we need to avoid at all costs the same circumstance with Smash 4. Getting Melee back on the map was a concentrated effort by the whole community, not just Melee specific players, so naturally, using your logic with Melee as the example, the whole community needs to put in effort for Smash 4 to make its debut.

Despite what Melee proponents continue to parrot, Melee didn't get to where it is purely on its own.
 
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shapular

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Melee is the main reason the smash community is so huge so let's not bash it...
Only because of when it came out. Brawl brought streaming and sponsorships to Smash and doubled the size of national tournaments, including giving us the Apex series which Melee players are now mooching off of.

I kinda feel you but the difference is this:

1) The Melee community put in work to establish and maintain those connections. The money that is donated is taking advantage of their hard work.

2) There is nothing stopping you or any other smashers from contacting Alex Strife, or anyone else for that matter who have connections (including likely support from Nintendo which SSBM will have limited support for as of Smash4's release in order to promote Smash4). Alex has even said in video form that people whine about these connections but no one even asks or actively seeks them out.

3. By all means, the Smash 4 community just needs to learn something from the Melee community: Mainly, get organized and take advantage of opportunities to grow. Certainly it won't be a problem for Smash 4 to grow as of now, but for future scenes to thrive it will eventually need this type of community persistence and passion if it wants to gain this type of support.
It's not "the Melee community" and "the Smash 4 community". They don't exist separately from each other. It's all the Smash community. Let's all move forward together and support the new game without being overly skeptical or bashing it. The Melee community needs to learn something from the 64 community: if you want to play your game, that's fine, but do it amongst yourselves. Don't bother anyone else about it and we won't bother you.
 

Acryte

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Messages
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Melee had it hard, so damn it, Smash 4 should, too". That's not how family acts, and we go through great pains to make us all seem so freaking familial when it's getting $90k raised to get Melee into EVO. Yet, when it comes to supporting the new scene, screw them, they have to stand on their own legs.
Yes, because I'm == Twitch, and can donate $14k to Smash 4. That's just an excuse to explicitly support one game over another, not negotiate equally for both games, then blame the results on other people.
We're not supposed to be separate communities.
It's ALL supposed to be Smash. You're just proving my point. We're all one community when it comes to supporting Melee, but we're separate communities when it comes to supporting Smash 4, and THEY have to do everything themselves and learn how to be more like Melee before they deserve help.
I didn't want to get into this whole conversation but it seems to be an inevitable squabble.

These communities are composed of individuals. Each individual either likes each game as is, or doesn't. It doesn't matter whether that game is from the same franchise, or the same developer. "Hey guys! We're SF4 we should be supporting Capcom fighters!" or even more extended: "Come on guys! We're FGC, we should support ALL fighting games". No offense, but maybe PSASBR isn't your cup of tea, and quite frankly, you dislike watching it played competitively. Are there games out there that you don't support? (Read following paragraph before quoting the next sentence out of context please). Just because you like certain games doesn't mean you MUST support all games.

That said, there is certainly nothing wrong with having a symbiotic connection within your communities, and it certainly helps foster growth in BOTH communities, and that's a positive thing. I certainly encourage that kind of interaction.

It's not about "screw this scene" it's saying that you should TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THE OPPORTUNITIES PRESENTED. If Melee has support from various sponsors, COME TOGETHER AS A COMMUNITY AND GET IN CONTACT WITH PEOPLE WHO HAVE THOSE CONTACTS. ESTABLISH A RELATIONSHIP. PUT FORTH A TINY BIT OF EFFORT ON THE COMMUNITY'S SIDE TO COME TOGETHER AND GAIN SUPPORT. Certainly cry out if people are hording contacts or casting your community in a bad light when talking with sponsors in order to have then NOT sponsor your community. That would be crossing a line. But please, this is the release of Smash4, it has more popularity that it knows what to do with. It's scene will grow steadily on it's own 2 feet, and with Nintendo possibly throwing tournaments too it's likely that it will be just fine for now.

If you would like to PROACTIVELY go about popularizing it and garnering support for the competitive scene, PLEASE DO. BUT ACTUALLY DO IT. Take advantage of the lessons learned from 13 years of grassroots and DIY mindsets, get organized, and start talking to TOs and Sponsors about turning it into an esport. You want it to happen? Don't just close your eyes and then pray that it catches on, go about doing the work as a community. I'm sure that you'll have plenty of supporters from TO staff, popular video streamers, etc, and honestly these are the guys you want to be talking to anyways. Not scrubs at home on their computers.
 
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hotdogturtle

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Messages
3,503
Jesus Christ @ Jack Kieser Jack Kieser , calm the **** down. You're posting on a Smash Bros website which caters to ALL FOUR Smash games (plus all the unofficial ones). If you constantly go out of your way to troll and attack people who like other games in the series than what you like, YOU are the one being biased, not anyone else.
 

Jack Kieser

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Jesus Christ @ Jack Kieser Jack Kieser , calm the **** down. You're posting on a Smash Bros website which caters to ALL FOUR Smash games (plus all the unofficial ones). If you constantly go out of your way to troll and attack people who like other games in the series than what you like, YOU are the one being biased, not anyone else.
??? I'm well aware of where I've been posting since, like, 2008 and been lurking since 2005. And, this is in no way an attack on anyone playing any game. It's voicing a concern about the people running the website and running our largest events. Play whatever you want, but I think we all have quite the right to question why and how the website that, effectively, runs our community both procures and spends $14k in sponsorship money.

@ Acryte Acryte : That is all well and good, except:

A ) There is an inherent hypocrisy when that logic applies to all Smash games BUT Melee. Whenever Melee comes up, we all are expected to support it, like EVO 2013; if you didn't support Melee, you were lambasted as being against the entire community, because we all have to come together and pile all this money on Melee. That does not seem to be the case with Smash 4, and that's hypocritical and troubling.

B ) I'm concerned that the forum admins and national TOs, the people who literally run the community and have the power, whether you admit it or not, to cripple Smash 4, are taking actions that explicitly and implicitly favor Melee over Smash 4, monetarily, because it makes more money to do so. I'm not concerned that the plebs aren't doing enough to support the game. Even you have to admit that it doesn't matter AT ALL how much we, as average people, do to support the game if the heads of APEX and SmashBoards actively work to get Melee, and not Smash 4, lucrative sponsorships, which increase the pot sizes of Melee events, which make more people enter them instead of Smash 4 (because you stand to make more money), which counteracts all the work regular people do. You might not want to admit this, but money talks, and it talks MUCH louder than average people can. Just look at the midterm elections.
 
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hotdogturtle

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Messages
3,503
How: Because Twitch is one of the biggest, if not the single biggest, streaming site on the internet right now.

Why: Because they ****ing feel like it; they're a large company with money and they can literally do whatever they want with it.

Don't try to drag your video game politics into it.
 

Alex Strife

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only reason it was for melee is cause smash 4 comes out in nov and we can't do proper qualifiers

next year it would be for multiple games but Melee is the only one atm that is worldwide while smash 4 has not come out for WiiU (which is the version we will be using at Apex)
 
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Acryte

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Mar 30, 2005
Messages
986
Yes, because I'm == Twitch, and can donate $14k to Smash 4. That's just an excuse to explicitly support one game over another, not negotiate equally for both games, then blame the results on other people.
Who's responsibility is it to negotiate for smash 4? It is the sponsor's choice where they want their money to go. I doubt the sponsor hasn't heard that there is a new smash game out. I doubt the sponsor is in the dark as to Smash4. Sponsors are concerned with 2 things:

1) Growing their brand
2) Possibly supporting something they like or care about.

When seeking sponsors they typically must be sold on said product in how it relates to at least one of those 2 things. They will embrace it or not depending on those two points. Who will take up the reigns for Smash4 in those negotiations? All you need to do is start talking with them. Plenty of popular melee streams are already hosting Smash4 all the time. Plenty of TOs will be holding Smash4 tournaments OR holding Smash4 events at established Melee/Brawl tourney series. So what's the problem?

I also feel this next point can't be stressed enough because its so damn tired from its Brawl iterations. Right now Smash4 is already on the defensive as if it is under attack. To be honest, this is RELEASE PERIOD. It just came out. Every single game that has ever came out has either people who like it and talk up how great it is, and people who gripe that either its mediocre or that they dislike it because it sucks. Every single game. Every single game ever released. This game just came out. Please stop playing the victim, as if the little bit of negativity surrounding it from SOME individuals is somehow different from ANY OTHER GAME RELEASE (especially when part of a series). You think that there is an active community arguing to try and convince skyward sword haters or Boon Dock Saints 2 haters that we should respect it for what it is, and support it as it's own game or movie, blah, blah, blah? Probably not. Mainly because (In the instance of Skyward Sword) its not a multiplayer game. It doesn't depend on other people also playing it in order for it to be played and enjoyed, so you don't have to jockey for support. Who cares if they don't like it, it doesn't change YOUR experience with the game. That said, obviously it differs for multiplayer games, and that is a primary reason we seek to validate and seek validation for the games we like. We act as if we are being attacked when people dislike or disagree with mechanics changes or various franchise releases. Deal with it.

On a second note, let's take Brawl for example. I may support the growth of the community for a game, like Brawl, but mechanically, it wasn't the direction I wanted the series to go in. In that regard, I don't support Brawl from the standpoint that I refuse to purchase it because I don't want my money to go to supporting design decisions that are contrary to my desires. This is how it works for anything. I refuse to go see what I know are crappy movies because I refuse let them profit off me. This is because I have principles and I want to endorse and support the things I like with the money I spend, and if enough people feel the same, we will get better quality movies and games and the like. So I can support the growth of brawl as a scene and support community interaction while still not accepting design changes or changes in the direction of the game. Just because it is the same series doesn't mean my position on the game has been decided for me or that I'm obligated to endorse all changes period.
 
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Kidney Thief

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
299
Location
Gatineau/Ottawa
What I worry about is the Melee effect. What I worry about is that, since Smash 4 is the SF4 of Smash, slower paced, less combo oriented, more about out-thinking and out-playing the opponent than getting in, getting a combo, rinse and repeat (yes, I know that's a simplification), that SmashBoards, as an institution, won't support it. They won't ASK Twitch to support Smash 4, they won't ASK Mr. Wizard to include Smash 4 at EVO, they won't advertise Smash 4 events as hardly or widely because Melee is the game that the site supports.

Ok, that's great that Twitch gave all this money to APEX. Why isn't some of that used explicitly for Smash 4? Why does the article above go out of its way to mention Melee (and Twitch's support of it and Scar being a Melee caster, because I guess he hasn't been casting FOR NINTENDO and Smash 4 lately)? It worries me that we're on the door of Smash 4 being released on consoles, and yet, we've heard nothing about how it will be supported early on to build that playerbase and community necessary to keep the game running. Not even an admin post from AZ saying "hey, so here's our admin plans for helping Smash 4 succeed". Yet, here's $14k for Melee. Suffice it to say, I'm not HORRIBLY reassured by this.
If you're not happy then give money out of your pocket to support smash 4. No one has the obligation to support smash 4 just because they support melee
 

Coonce

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 27, 2014
Messages
137
I'm enjoying Smash 4 a lot but you guys seriously need to get over this idea that if Smash 4 doesn't get some serious support right now (when the WiiU version isn't even out yet) it'll never have a competitive scene. I, personally, really wanted Persona 4 Arena to take off competitively, but it had its moment and that was that. I'm not bitter about it. It's just how things are. I would much rather people support the game they like instead of pressured to support one they don't.
 

Acryte

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 30, 2005
Messages
986
Yea P4A is pretty sweet, your options just felt so much more limited than when approaching in guilty gear, but I liked some of the mechanics like hopping, universal knockdowns and launchers and some other cool stuff, and even the rubber banding provided by awakening was actually a cool mechanic because you had to strategically know combo options and if you can finish them off...
 
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meda9871

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 14, 2014
Messages
26
NNID
meda9871
3DS FC
2895-7619-5918
When I first read the article, I thought that there was a great sense of bias towards Melee as it begins with "Today is a big day for Melee fans." But after reading the blog post, it clearly states "Twitch has committed $14,000 in pot bonuses for the Smash Bros. Melee events" Twitch is supporting the biggest Smash scene right now and the one with the biggest pots. It is obvious that a lot of people want Smash 4 and Smash in general to rocket off to success, but certain issues take time like the time it took for us to get used to the 3DS controls.
 
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