Twin Kindergarten Ninjas of Diamond City - Kat & Ana for Smash Ultimate DLC

[Teeb147]

Gold's entire artstyle has grown on me a ton once the game came out, I did a double take at the design changes at first, but....

View attachment 158507

Yup. Still precious beyond belief.

Precious is a good word for it.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

Precious indeed!

I don't think that there's a WW Gold design that I dislike. It's simple and cute,

 

[RileyXY1]

They really are adorable.

 

[warelander]

Yah know, I brought up the SPD1/EAD merge before as a reason of why I want to be hopeful for the Ninja Twins to make into the roster, but there is a bit more to why I see it as a helpful asset then I mentioned.

SPD1 originally was the R&D1, before they were dissolved and their staffed folded elsewhere. Among the games they made was Super Mario Land, a game that was largely ignored in other Mario titles for a very long time, until the merge, since then it has seen quite a lot more representation than it used to get.

This even includes Daisy herself, who after over a decade of just being used as spin off filler has now gotten herself a costume in Mario Maker (alongside a Sky Pop costume as well), a playable appearence in Super Mario Run (complete with SML music) and now a Smash roster spot as Peach's Echo.

Nintendo is also a lot more serious about marketing WarioWare Gold then they have been with any other Wario title since Smooth Moves and even the japanese Smash Ultimate blog has gotten in on it, with Wario getting his post on the same day as Gold's japanese release, alongside a bit of promotion for the game, to go along with it.

What I'm trying to say is that the R&D/SPD1 library of games and franchises has been treated much better since the merge and I'd just love if this translated into something good for Wario's supporting cast and Kat & Ana as IC Echos just strikes me as a convenient and easy bit of promotion for Gold, that I could see Nintendo NPD request, should there not have been any plans for them as newcomers otherwise.

 

[Teeb147]

It's certainly pretty decent timing to promote warioware, so hopefully it could happen into the next direct.

Here's how I think there'd be reason for them being in smash, and how they could explain their inclusion:

"We're proud to present Kat & Ana as playable characters in Smash Brothers Ultimate. We know that Warioware has grown a dedicated fanbase, and while we also know that many fans were hoping for Ashley, with all the characters we worked on we simply did not have the opportunity this time around to make her into a completely new fighter. Kat & Ana are based on the Ice Climbers, so we were able to make them much easier. But we changed a lot of what we could to make them feel like unique fighters, so we don't consider echo characters. We hope you enjoy the young ninja duo when you get to play Smash Brothers Ultimate."

 

[Samcrumpit]

Gold's entire artstyle has grown on me a ton once the game came out, I did a double take at the design changes at first, but....

View attachment 158507

Yup. Still precious beyond belief.

I still think a few characters were neutered like 9-Volt and Ashley, but I thought everyone else looked pretty good when I saw them initially.

Like Katana, Mona, and Penny have never looked better so I was suprised to see how negative people were towards the new artsyle at first.

 

[warelander]

I was pretty okay with the artstyle from the start, safe for Dr. Crygor, but it did take a little to get used to some of the designs and honestly, some like 5-Volt or Penny have kinda bleh profile view artwork, but look fine in other art and in-game.

 

[Derpy619]

Almost everyone agrees with the new designs of almost all characters, but some people have disappointment about the new appearance of Kat and Ana because they look like "fatties". In my opinion, regardless most people think about them, I'm thinking they have a more faithful representation of a body proportion represented in a Kindergarten child, so I don't have problem with that although i was accustomed with the previous designs where the characters only changed the eye color (In Game & wario), and minimum aesthetic details

 

[AngrySun88]

After Ashley's deconfirm, I'd be happy for any new WarioWare reps. I could see them playing as a semi-clone of the Ice Climbers, perhaps being more floaty with quick sword based attacks instead of ice.

Count me in as a supporter.

 

[warelander]

Here's a piece of fan art in regards to Kat and Ana in Smash, that I found a while ago.

Always nice to see some overseas interest in the idea of them as newcomers as well.

 

[RileyXY1]

Here's a piece of fan art in regards to Kat and Ana in Smash, that I found a while ago.

Always nice to see some overseas interest in the idea of them as newcomers as well.

With Ashley deconfirmed, all of these WarioWare characters who previously had no shot now have a chance of getting in. Also, that's some very nice artwork.

 

[Deleted member]

Would be very cute. Not among my "most wanted" cute, but still very cute.

I would welcome them in with open arms for sure.

 

[Derpy619]

I Hope sakurai show us soon some information about the WarioWare Series, perhaps a new music for the stages. Altrought Kat and Ana are my favorite characters of the WarioWare franchise, i would like the "Tomorrow Hill" song inside the game, my favorite song.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Now that I think about it, Ashley-bias got the better of the community. We discounted Kat & Ana so early, but then the second wave of assists showed up and they are still MIA. Now they’ve essentially become most likely Wario character in our eyes, even though they were probably the most likely the whole time. Why else would Nintendo have had them in smash BEFORE Ashley? When you think about it, the answers been right there the whole time: they plan on doing something with the duo. (Theory time) What If like some have said the two were planned for smash 4 but were cut due to the 3ds limitations, and are now being featured as fully playable characters? It would make sense because I doubt anyone hates the duo (I mean who could?) and they could be have a very unique moveset (which is basically gold to Sakurai). These two have been one of the most likely since this game was finalized, and no one thought about it until the 8th. They are and always have been more likely than Skull Kid, Isaac, Geno, a pokemon, B&K, and EVEN Ashley. What happened to these two also happened to others, including Sceptile, where people just didn’t see him happening until they analyzed how likely he actually was. Now I’m worried both characters might get skipped because of our quick mentality that was automatic to say Ashley or Decidueye are more likely than the other two. I hope that’s not the case because I’ve wanted and fought for Sceptile since brawl days, and Kat & Ana are the best consolation for the Ashley assist. Hopefully I can be right here, because these two slots would make my dream roster very close to complete.

 

[Samcrumpit]

Now that I think about it, Ashley-bias got the better of the community. We discounted Kat & Ana so early, but then the second wave of assists showed up and they are still MIA. Now they’ve essentially become most likely Wario character in our eyes, even though they were probably the most likely the whole time. Why else would Nintendo have had them in smash BEFORE Ashley? When you think about it, the answers been right there the whole time: they plan on doing something with the duo. (Theory time) What If like some have said the two were planned for smash 4 but were cut due to the 3ds limitations, and are now being featured as fully playable characters? It would make sense because I doubt anyone hates the duo (I mean who could?) and they could be have a very unique moveset (which is basically gold to Sakurai). These two have been one of the most likely since this game was finalized, and no one thought about it until the 8th. They are and always have been more likely than Skull Kid, Isaac, Geno, a pokemon, B&K, and EVEN Ashley. What happened to these two also happened to others, including Sceptile, where people just didn’t see him happening until they analyzed how likely he actually was. Now I’m worried both characters might get skipped because of our quick mentality that was automatic to say Ashley or Decidueye are more likely than the other two. I hope that’s not the case because I’ve wanted and fought for Sceptile since brawl days, and Kat & Ana are the best consolation for the Ashley assist. Hopefully I can be right here, because these two slots would make my dream roster very close to complete.

I think it's because no one expected Wario to get more than 2 reps, so a heavy emphasis on the most likely character from that series was warranted. Also, we weren't that sure about how Echo characters would be implemented. Now that we see we're getting a lot of echo fighters and the moveset of echoes is pretty flexible (ie. Chrom), Katana seems a lot more likely. Tho I'm still seeing not much analysis on their chances. Probably because of the fallacy of "If Ashley couldn't make it in, what makes you think they can?".

I'd like to see the RTC thread's take on them.

 

[warelander]

Tho I'm still seeing not much analysis on their chances. Probably because of the fallacy of "If Ashley couldn't make it in, what makes you think they can?".

The ironic thing is that this mentality may have hurt Ashley in the end as well.

There is never any way to say for sure, but if people weren't so dimissive of every Wario character besides her and gave them support as well it could have very well send an even louder message that people want and would be okay with another Wario character, which could maybe have turned things around for Ashley, since her support is clearly there.

I want Kat and Ana (or Mona or 9-Volt or Captain Syrup) more personally, but they now have to bank on there being any interest or plans for them behind the scenes, which is certainly possible, there's just no way for us to tell until we know the full roster

 

[AngrySun88]

I think they would be a more unique fighter than any other generic swordfighter character. The Ice Climbers would likely be the base for KatAna and I imagine that they would play similarly. Plus, they would technically be the first ninja characters in Smash so I can see Sakurai easily pulling from that for potential moves.

While I'm still hoping for Ashley DLC, I'd be happy with any new WarioWare representation.

 

[Russell_SSB]

I SUPPORT!

 

[DarkFalcon]

I'll take any new WarioWare rep. My most wanted in Ashley was disconfirmed, but Kat and Ana would be an out of left field pick that could work. Another duo character would be really cool.

 

[Derpy619]

Masahiro Sakurai has published a new column in the Famitsu Magazine. In a few hours the translation will be in various internet sites. Keep an eye close, perhaps Sakurai leave us a clue for a new character, stage, game mode, etc.

 

[warelander]

While we are waiting for more Ultimate news I think it would be interesting to discuss WarioWare Gold's sales performance.

WarioWare Gold sold 70.344 as of August 19 in Japan, compare that to Game & Wario, which sold around 70k lifetime in Japan, according to Media Create and 80k according to Famitsu.

The game had a rather weak start in the UK, only barely making it into the top 40 charts and dropping quickly out of them, it did however sell out for a while on the canadian Amazon, though that one is likely more indicative of small stock then anything else, I still have yet to see anything in regards to US sales.

So yeah, as expected the 3DS's decline has also affected WWG's performance as well, which isn't surprising, since even titles like the Mario & Luigi series starting with Paper Jam, have had discouraging sales figures.

It's selling pretty steadily in Japan and those numbers really aren't bad at all, considering the far too late release timing and Nintendo is pretty serious about marketing the game in Japan, so if we don't get a WarioWare character on Ultimate's base roster, then I can at least see Nintendo pushing for one as DLC.

 

[AngrySun88]

This is why we need a WarioWare game on the Switch so that it and the characters can get a much wider audience.

But it is nice that Nintendo is marketing the game in Japan. Any WW character in Smash would be a huge boost to the series.

 

[Teeb147]

WarioWare Gold sold 70.344 as of August 19 in Japan, compare that to Game & Wario, which sold around 70k lifetime in Japan, according to Media Create and 80k according to Famitsu.

The game had a rather weak start in the UK, only barely making it into the top 40 charts and dropping quickly out of them, it did however sell out for a while on the canadian Amazon, though that one is likely more indicative of small stock then anything else, I still have yet to see anything in regards to US sales.

So yeah, as expected the 3DS's decline has also affected WWG's performance as well, which isn't surprising, since even titles like the Mario & Luigi series starting with Paper Jam, have had discouraging sales figures.

Those UK charts are not just for 3ds, and I'm not sure how comparable it is. dunno. Octopath Traveler is 22nd, and that one is pretty darn popular from what I heard. I haven't seen U.S. charts, I wonder how they're doing there.
But you're right that the 3ds isn't doing as well now with everything.

 

[warelander]

The new Famitsu Column is has been translated now.

I won't lie, ''I referred to the Smash Ballot when selecting characters this time'' feels like a bit of a damning statement for Kat and Ana.

I mean it's always possible that we will still get characters that were selected for interesting movesets or convenience and there is always the Echo character route for them, which may help, since Richter was very likely not high on the Ballot (given how few expected him) and even Sakurai acknowledges that many might not even know him, so at least them as Echos still seems like it could have a decent likelyhood.

 

[Teeb147]

The new Famitsu Column is has been translated now.

I won't lie, ''I referred to the Smash Ballot when selecting characters this time'' feels like a bit of a damning statement for Kat and Ana.

I mean it's always possible that we will still get characters that were selected for interesting movesets or convenience and there is always the Echo character route for them, which may help, since Richter was very likely not high on the Ballot (given how few expected him) and even Sakurai acknowledges that many might not even know him, so at least them as Echos still seems like it could have a decent likelyhood.

Like I mentioned elsewhere, referring to the ballot doesn't mean all characters are picked from it.
It'd be uncharacteristic of nintendo not to do their own thing. And yeh, not just Richter even Simon doesn't show that high of numbers. He's a nice retro pick though, that a good amount of people wanted.

It's too bad there wasn't much new info in there. But we just have to wait and see what comes out. Hoping a new direct isn't too far off :D

 

[RileyXY1]

Like I mentioned elsewhere, referring to the ballot doesn't mean all characters are picked from it.
It'd be uncharacteristic of nintendo not to do their own thing. And yeh, not just Richter even Simon doesn't show that high of numbers. He's a nice retro pick though, that a good amount of people wanted.

It's too bad there wasn't much new info in there. But we just have to wait and see what comes out. Hoping a new direct isn't too far off :D

Yeah. Besides the Castlevania characters, Inklings are here because they're a hot new IP and Daisy probably wasn't a high ranking ballot character either. If Sakurai sees some interest in Kat & Ana then he can make them playable.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Been watching some ice climbers gameplay and i keep thinking about Kat & Ana.. I just really hope ultimate gets some kind of warioware representation. (Also i love nana's color, it's more of a hot pink than a pastel pink now

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Yah know, I brought up the SPD1/EAD merge before as a reason of why I want to be hopeful for the Ninja Twins to make into the roster, but there is a bit more to why I see it as a helpful asset then I mentioned.

SPD1 originally was the R&D1, before they were dissolved and their staffed folded elsewhere. Among the games they made was Super Mario Land, a game that was largely ignored in other Mario titles for a very long time, until the merge, since then it has seen quite a lot more representation than it used to get.

This even includes Daisy herself, who after over a decade of just being used as spin off filler has now gotten herself a costume in Mario Maker (alongside a Sky Pop costume as well), a playable appearence in Super Mario Run (complete with SML music) and now a Smash roster spot as Peach's Echo.

Nintendo is also a lot more serious about marketing WarioWare Gold then they have been with any other Wario title since Smooth Moves and even the japanese Smash Ultimate blog has gotten in on it, with Wario getting his post on the same day as Gold's japanese release, alongside a bit of promotion for the game, to go along with it.

What I'm trying to say is that the R&D/SPD1 library of games and franchises has been treated much better since the merge and I'd just love if this translated into something good for Wario's supporting cast and Kat & Ana as IC Echos just strikes me as a convenient and easy bit of promotion for Gold, that I could see Nintendo NPD request, should there not have been any plans for them as newcomers otherwise.

This actually brings more credence to my theory regarding the silly chairs; the colors actually referring to two Wario characters. I also have been thinking about the Kat/Ana AT being MIA so far possibly meaning they've been promoted, and since they're a pair, it would make sense. As much as I prefer Mona and Jimmy, I would be okay with the twins in here.

Almost everyone agrees with the new designs of almost all characters, but some people have disappointment about the new appearance of Kat and Ana because they look like "fatties". In my opinion, regardless most people think about them, I'm thinking they have a more faithful representation of a body proportion represented in a Kindergarten child, so I don't have problem with that although i was accustomed with the previous designs where the characters only changed the eye color (In Game & wario), and minimum aesthetic details

I'm not sure I like that they're a tad chubbier, but then again that might increase their chances of fitting Ice Climbers' hurtboxes if they don't have time to make them 100% unique lol.

View attachment 158504


I like their eyes in the skinnier design too, but it doesn't matter to much, they're all cute :D

I mean, to be fair, their story in WWG consists of them stuffing themselves like Ebisumaru (also, those initials for the game title sound a bit unfortunate).

 

[warelander]

This actually brings more credence to my theory regarding the silly chairs; the colors actually referring to two Wario characters. I also have been thinking about the Kat/Ana AT being MIA so far possibly meaning they've been promoted, and since they're a pair, it would make sense. As much as I prefer Mona and Jimmy, I would be okay with the twins in here.

It took me until your reply to realize it, but yeah, the purple/yellow combo does bring Wario to mind. It kind of reminds me of that recent screenshot and how much it resembles a typical Golden Sun battle screen.

I am very cautious about how much I want to read into this kind of stuff, but Sakurai is a man of details and there's no way that he's not aware of how dedicated people are when it comes to Smash speculation, so him sneakily hiding hints like that would be typical of him

 

[Derpy619]

It took me until your reply to realize it, but yeah, the purple/yellow combo does bring Wario to mind. It kind of reminds me of that recent screenshot and how much it resembles a typical Golden Sun battle screen.

I am very cautious about how much I want to read into this kind of stuff, but Sakurai is a man of details and there's no way that he's not aware of how dedicated people are when it comes to Smash speculation, so him sneakily hiding hints like that would be typical of him

Well, the colors of the chair in the Sakurai's office could represent anything for example: Tatl and Tael from The Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask

Also could represent the colors of Wario and/or Waluigi

Or maybe, for the representation of this thread: The color of the hand grips they have in the katanas.

Well, maybe the chairs are just a decoration to the liking of Sakurai, but perhaps we'll never know

 

[Teeb147]

Sakurai is a fun fellow, why can't he just have yellow and purple chairs lol.

Also, some people suggested Shantae, cuz she has those colors.
I mean, anyone can see what they want, to some degree.

Just looking forward to next direct :D

 

[DeltaSceptile]

After Sakurai said what he did about the ballot, I can officially say that my favorite pokemon Sceptile has a REALLY good shot this time around! It may be bad for Kat&Ana, but I still see them finding their way in.

 

[Teeb147]

After Sakurai said what he did about the ballot, I can officially say that my favorite pokemon Sceptile has a REALLY good shot this time around! It may be bad for Kat&Ana, but I still see them finding their way in.

I know that you like Sceptile, but not everyone's going to agree with you that he has chances.

But anyway, almost everyone who's not in the top 10 of the ballot results are kind of in the same boat, I think. Have to rely on nintendo in general, not just votes.

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

It may be bad for Kat&Ana, but I still see them finding their way in.

They wouldn't be true ninjas if they didn't.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I know that you like Sceptile, but not everyone's going to agree with you that he has chances.

But anyway, almost everyone who's not in the top 10 of the ballot results are kind of in the same boat, I think. Have to rely on nintendo in general, not just votes.

There is the fact that he was most likely number one for pokemon during the ballot, and he still is marketed (has a theme deck in the newest expansion). His only real competition is Lycanroc, who I would be equally excited for if that’s the best we can get. Besides, pokemon isn’t something you just discount because “Isaac or Geno are more likely.” They are the only series that has gotten a new rep every time, not even something mario could do. Why stop at nine when they could even it out?

 

[Teeb147]

There is the fact that he was most likely number one for pokemon during the ballot, and he still is marketed (has a theme deck in the newest expansion). His only real competition is Lycanroc, who I would be equally excited for if that’s the best we can get.

I haven't seen Sceptile much in polls. I did see him one place and Zoroark was higher than him. But you're right he did have a fanbase back then. Good luck have fun

As for Kat&Ana, I haven't seen them much in polls either, so really we're relying on things other than votes. Which honestly is fine, I don't like focusing just on votes, though obviously it does matter too.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I haven't seen Sceptile much in polls. I did see him one place and Zoroark was higher than him. But you're right he did have a fanbase back then. Good luck have fun

As for Kat&Ana, I haven't seen them much in polls either, so really we're relying on things other than votes. Which honestly is fine, I don't like focusing just on votes, though obviously it does matter.

Yeah, and considering Zoroark was already deconfirmed, it’s not too farfetch’d(see what I did there?) to believe that Sceptile has taken on the highest chance for pokemon. But the main reason I have a top ten is to diversify my hopes so that I can be happy if at least one gets in. In fact, having Kat&Ana would be great for me, I just have to hope for Sceptile because he’s the thing that I have pure nostalgia for. People can say what they want about him, but in the end you can’t argue that he doesn’t have staying power. He’s one of the very select few that even after his home games, he got a good bit of marketing.

 

[Derpy619]

Even with their lack of popularity, Kat and Ana have combat abilities, and weapons, alongside a seniority in the WarioWare Series and the most appearances in videogames ( Even more than Mona or Jimmy T.). I hope sakurai take those details into account for any character he want to put and not only based in the Smashbros Ballot Published years ago.

 

[warelander]

I also want to add that Wario is more then big enough to warrant at least one more rep, after all, the series' legacy consists of:

-8 Platformers

-10 WarioWare titles

-DSi Ware standalone versions of Paperplane and Pyoro

-Wario Blast

-Mario & Wario and Wario's Woods, which are essentially Wario's equivalent of the Arcade DK era


Outside of it's own games it also has:

-The Mario spin offs, which feature a very constant string of Wario series content, including appearences and references to Wario series characters

-The Rhythm Heaves series, which has at least one WarioWare guest appearence each game and in the case of Megamix, two whole challenge sets featuring Ware's main cast.

-Picross NP Vol.7, which features a Wario Land 2 set of puzzles

-Starfy 3, which features Wario in a heavily Wario Land based guest role

-Wario's Woods is featured in NES Remix 2

-The Badge Arcade, which featured Ashley as one of it's mascots, as well as a WarioWare set and a WarioWare x Majora's Mask set

-And Smash itself, which treats Wario as it's own franchise and much like with Donkey Kong, references his relationship with the Mario series, without lumping them together, unlike Yoshi for instance.


There is also just how Wario's appearences outside of his home series are all heavily influenced by his own series.

His greed, strenght, love for garlic, association with bombs, the Shoulder Charge, his Plane, Bike and Car, his biker persona, Diamond City and even design tweaks like the short sleeves, are all elements that come from his own series, with his rivalry with Mario and his spin off partner Waluigi being the only Mario series elements that are really relevant to him these days.

Wario is a big series and I sincerely believe that the only reason people don't see it as more of a no-brainer for a new rep is that Wario fans online tend to be pretty quiet for the most part, but I think it's well overdue for more love in Smash and Kat & Ana, being the most recurring Wario characters period, would be a fantastic choice to fill that gap.

 

[DeltaSceptile]

I also want to add that Wario is more then big enough to warrant at least one more rep, after all, the series' legacy consists of:

-8 Platformers

-10 WarioWare titles

-DSi Ware standalone versions of Paperplane and Pyoro

-Wario Blast

-Mario & Wario and Wario's Woods, which are essentially Wario's equivalent of the Arcade DK era


Outside of it's own games it also has:

-The Mario spin offs, which feature a very constant string of Wario series content, including appearences and references to Wario series characters

-The Rhythm Heaves series, which has at least one WarioWare guest appearence each game and in the case of Megamix, two whole challenge sets featuring Ware's main cast.

-Picross NP Vol.7, which features a Wario Land 2 set of puzzles

-Starfy 3, which features Wario in a heavily Wario Land based guest role

- Wario's Woods is featured in NES Remix 2

-The Badge Arcade, which featured Ashley as one of it's mascots, as well as a WarioWare set and a WarioWare x Majora's Mask set

-And Smash itself, which treats Wario as it's own franchise and much like with Donkey Kong, references his relationship with the Mario series, without lumping them together, unlike Yoshi for instance.


There is also just how Wario's appearences outside of his home series are all heavily influenced by his own series.

His greed, strenght, love for garlic, association with bombs, his Plane, Bike and Car, his biker persona, Diamond City and even design tweaks like the short sleeves, are all elements that come from his own series, with his rivalry with Mario and his spin off partner Waluigi being the only Mario series elments that are really relevant to him these days.

Wario is a big series and I sincerely think that the only reason people don't see it as more of a no-brainer for a new rep is that Wario fans online tend to be pretty quiet for the most part, but I think it's well overdue for more love in Smash and Kat & Ana, being the most recurring Wario characters period, would be a fantastic choice to fill that gap.

Yeah, would love to see the looks on people’s faces when Kat&Ana get announced. It would be fun to see the chaos that will go down on reddit and gamefaqs. The funny part is that these two aren’t even as “out of left field” as they would think.