Twin Kindergarten Ninjas of Diamond City - Kat & Ana for Smash Ultimate DLC

[Teeb147]

I just realized I could put links to the support threads in my sig images. So now it goes here when someone clicks on the Kat & Ana one.
I put ones on all of them. I don't know to put primarina or gardevoir on my big one, :/

 

[Derpy619]

well, for the momenent, at least Ana appears as a sticker glued in the returning stage "Gamer", also the stickers of Spitz and 5-volt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w7oI7irl4o
min 7:55

 

[Samcrumpit]

Do you guys think that if Kat and Ana were to get in as echoes, would future smash titles try to "unecho" them? Not take them out, but just make their moveset more unique and separated from the Ice Climbers. I'm hoping that this is the case if they do get in, as well as for other potential Echo fighters who could be more unique, like Dixie or Shadow.

 

[Teeb147]

Do you guys think that if Kat and Ana were to get in as echoes, would future smash titles try to "unecho" them? Not take them out, but just make their moveset more unique and separated from the Ice Climbers. I'm hoping that this is the case if they do get in, as well as for other potential Echo fighters who could be more unique, like Dixie or Shadow.

Yeah of course, I see echos as investments by nintendo for the future too. Clones have changed little by little, so why not echoes. But they do have the possibility to stay clones if people like them that way, like Lucina is still an echo.
I don't think Kat and Ana will be echoes though, because their hurt boxes probably wouldn't be the same, their bodies are different, so in this case I think they'd be clone characters for sure. imo.

 

[Samcrumpit]

Yeah of course, I see echos as investments by nintendo for the future too. Clones have changed little by little, so why not echoes. But they do have the possibility to stay clones if people like them that way, like Lucina is still an echo.
I don't think Kat and Ana will be echoes though, because their hurt boxes probably wouldn't be the same, their bodies are different, so in this case I think they'd be clone characters for sure. imo.

Do you mean they won't be echoes at base Ultimate? I think Sakurai could change their hurtboxes a tad and still classify them as echoes. It seems to me that we won't get new non echo clones now that he has a fancy name to call them now.

 

[Teeb147]

Do you mean they won't be echoes at base Ultimate? I think Sakurai could change their hurtboxes a tad and still classify them as echoes. It seems to me that we won't get new non echo clones now that he has a fancy name to call them now.

From what I understand, echoes are almost direct clones, because they change very little on them, and none of them have different hurtboxes. And none have different hitboxes on their normal attacks either, only changes to properties like sweetspots, etc. It's mostly the b-attacks that change. Not that it couldn't change in the future, but that's what makes it easy to not only make them fighters, but also for patching (including balancing) it'll make things 10 times easier, since they can treat them essentially the same for the most important parts.
Dark samus introduces that dodges can change too.

 

[warelander]

well, for the momenent, at least Ana appears as a sticker glued in the returning stage "Gamer", also the stickers of Spitz and 5-volt
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9w7oI7irl4o
min 7:55

Notice how the stickers now use WarioWare Gold artworks, I can't help but to find that interesting, since I wasn't expecting anything from Gold in Ultimate, due to how recent it is does that mean could the Final Stage theme as a music track...plz?

Of course with the roster already being decided in 2015, I doubt it will have done anything for a WarioWare newcomer, since I doubt that Gold was in development for that long, but WarioWare is in a pretty lucky position when it comes to activity. It had a gap between 2013 and 2018, but in comparison to other series that's still pretty tame and we did get the WarioWare challenge sets in Rhythm Heaven Megamix, as well as a general WarioWare set and a completely unique WarioWare x Majora's Mask set in the Badge Arcade, in the meantime. So I think the series still very much counts as consistently relevant.

 

[RileyXY1]

I don't think that Kat & Ana can work as Ice Climber echoes. They would have to translate attacks that involve hammers to swords, and that won't be easy. The ICs also have a ton of ice-based attacks that wouldn't work with Kat & Ana.

 

[warelander]

There are ways around it, but yeah, it would take more creativity and work then the average Echo Fighter.

It does help though that the Ice Climbers have established the framework of how a duo character is supposed to function, so regardless of how Kat and Ana would be made into a fighter, it would take some of the potential hurdles away, since there is already an example of their character type in Smash.

 

[RileyXY1]

There are ways around it, but yeah, it would take more creativity and work then the average Echo Fighter.

It does help though that the Ice Climbers have established the framework of how a duo character is supposed to function, so regardless of how Kat and Ana would be made into a fighter, it would take some of the potential hurdles away, since there is already an example of their character type in Smash.

Yeah. They can take some code from the ICs without having to be made into full echoes of them.

 

[warelander]

By the by, figured I'd share this interesting trivia bit here:

You know Super Mario Kun? It's commonly believed that WarioWare's cast never made any manga appearence, since SMK (for whatever reason) doesn't seem to acknowlede Ware at all.

A couple of Ware characters actually did make a manga appearence, via the one-off gag manga ''Wai Wai Wario!'' which was a featured in Fami2Comic. The characters in question are Wario himself, Mona, Ashley, 9-Volt, 18-Volt and...

https://wariofranchisefanblog.tumbl.../warelander-wario-mona-9-volt-18-volt-kat-ana

Yup, Kat and Ana.

I just find it to be a really neat and obscure trivia bit, as well as a nice unexpected non-game appearence for them. It's also a example of Kat and Ana being chosen when there's only a small amount of Ware characters to be featured, with Snapped being another one, which does put them into a particularly prominent light, since they are essentially always around, even when other mainstays like Dr. Crygor aren't.

 

[RileyXY1]

By the by, figured I'd share this interesting trivia bit here:

You know Super Mario Kun? It's commonly believed that WarioWare's cast never made any manga appearence, since SMK (for whatever reason) doesn't seem to acknowlede Ware at all.

A couple of Ware characters actually did make a manga appearence, via the one-off gag manga ''Wai Wai Wario!'' which was a featured in Fami2Comic. The characters in question are Wario himself, Mona, Ashley, 9-Volt, 18-Volt and...

https://wariofranchisefanblog.tumbl.../warelander-wario-mona-9-volt-18-volt-kat-ana

Yup, Kat and Ana.

I just find it to be a really neat and obscure trivia bit, as well as a nice unexpected non-game appearence for them. It's also a example of Kat and Ana being chosen when there's only a small amount of Ware characters to be featured, with Snapped being another one, which does put them into a particularly prominent light, since they are essentially always around, even when other mainstays like Dr. Crygor aren't.

Jimmy T, a fan favorite who has been around since the first game, wasn't even in that comic. That shows that Kat & Ana are very prominent in the franchise, even if they aren't one of the more popular characters.

 

[Samcrumpit]

Notice how the stickers now use WarioWare Gold artworks, I can't help but to find that interesting, since I wasn't expecting anything from Gold in Ultimate, due to how recent it is does that mean could the Final Stage theme as a music track...plz?

Of course with the roster already being decided in 2015, I doubt it will have done anything for a WarioWare newcomer, since I doubt that Gold was in development for that long, but WarioWare is in a pretty lucky position when it comes to activity. It had a gap between 2013 and 2018, but in comparison to other series that's still pretty tame and we did get the WarioWare challenge sets in Rhythm Heaven Megamix, as well as a general WarioWare set and a completely unique WarioWare x Majora's Mask set in the Badge Arcade, in the meantime. So I think the series still very much counts as consistently relevant.

I'm curious as to what you guys think about the validity of this leak that said Gold started development in late 2015.

https://twitter.com/LeakReview/status/985331127647744000

 

[Teeb147]

I'm curious as to what you guys think about the validity of this leak that said Gold started development in late 2015.

https://twitter.com/LeakReview/status/985331127647744000

Not sure I understand, but so long as Sakurai knew warioware was going to be in the works, it's a boost in relevancy, I guess.
And I still think warioware deserves a new smash rep in whatever case

 

[Samcrumpit]

Not sure I understand, but so long as Sakurai knew warioware was going to be in the works, it's a boost in relevancy, I guess.
And I still think warioware deserves a new smash rep in whatever case

It's in reference to Warelander not believing that Gold was in development while the roster was being finalized. I don't think it intuitively makes sense for a game like gold to take 2 and a half years to release, but I guess if this credible enough leak says it has, I guess it's possible that Nintendo were sitting on Gold for a while.

 

[warelander]

I'm curious as to what you guys think about the validity of this leak that said Gold started development in late 2015.

https://twitter.com/LeakReview/status/985331127647744000

It would sincerely surprise me if WarioWare Gold was in development for so long, even with the game's small staff in mind.

With that said the leak did nail quite a number of things about Gold and it's not unreasonable to think that a WarioWare with such a similar premise would materialize not too long after Rhythm Heaven Megamix, which saw it's Japan release in June of 2015.

There's also the fact that a development start in late 2015 means that it would have happened around the time of the SPD1/EAD merge, so it's possible that there was some internal restructuring, that slowed progress on Gold for a while.

That's just me spitballing though, since unlike the earlier games we have yet to hear anything about Gold's development from interviews, so anything's possible.

 

[RileyXY1]

It would sincerely surprise me if WarioWare Gold was in development for so long, even with the game's small staff in mind.

With that said the leak did nail quite a number of things about Gold and it's not unreasonable to think that a WarioWare with such a similar premise would materialize not too long after Rhythm Heaven Megamix, which saw it's Japan release in June of 2015.

There's also the fact that a development start in late 2015 means that it would have happened around the time of the SPD1/EAD merge, so it's possible that there was some internal restructuring, that slowed progress on Gold for a while.

That's just me spitballing though, since unlike the earlier games we have yet to hear anything about Gold's development from interviews, so anything's possible.

Yeah. This leak is certainly believable.

 

[Teeb147]

When they say development, what level are they talking on? Because it could be that warioware gold was still planned and known about before that time.

This is also why I think in some cases some placeholders can be planned to develop characters they know about but wait for the finalized designs to integrate them, and stuff like that. (although it's also always open for dlc..)

 

[RileyXY1]

Kat & Ana would be the easiest WarioWare characters to add. They already have existing 3D models and they can just copy over some code from the ICs and create a moveset. Characters like Mona Pizza and 9-Volt would have to be created from the ground up, and that includes creating a 3D model for them.

 

[Teeb147]

Kat & Ana would be the easiest WarioWare characters to add. They already have existing 3D models and they can just copy over some code from the ICs and create a moveset. Characters like Mona Pizza and 9-Volt would have to be created from the ground up, and that includes creating a 3D model for them.

At this point I think they create a lot of 3d models in general. They've gotten pretty good at it and animations. The new characters are so much more animated than before.

I think they have a decent chance in the case that they wanted to add a warioware character but didn't want to go with Ashely for whatever reason. So does Mona. Is it asking too much to have both? or the three? jk ;p

 

[RileyXY1]

At this point I think they create a lot of 3d models in general. They've gotten pretty good at it and animations. The new characters are so much more animated than before.

I think they have a decent chance in the case that they wanted to add a warioware character but didn't want to go with Ashely for whatever reason. So does Mona. Is it asking too much to have both? or the three? jk ;p

I don't really know if WarioWare is big enough to warrant 3 reps.

 

[Teeb147]

I don't really know if WarioWare is big enough to warrant 3 reps.

I know I was just playing. and I don't think they'd only have only the girls if they did.
But I could totally see 2 reps (maybe one as dlc??). 1 rep is the least I'm hoping for.

 

[warelander]

That's always a debatable subject, but WarioWare while not among Nintendo's biggest sellers, did essentially create a whole sub-genre of minigames, has 10 installments now + the crossover challenges in RH Megamix and a fair bit of content in the Mario spin offs.

Honestly, I could see WarioWare get at least two reps, then again I think the Wario series in general is bigger and more notable then many give it credit for.

 

[RileyXY1]

I know I was just playing. and I don't think they'd only have only the girls if they did.
But I could totally see 2 reps (maybe one as dlc??). 1 rep is the least I'm hoping for.

Yeah. I can see Mona and Kat & Ana getting added together.

 

[Teeb147]

Warioware is awesome, silly & fun.

I just found these old sales data:

"
Wario Ware

-Shipped 1.10 million worldwide

WarioWare Touched

-Shipped 2,47 million worldwide

WarioWare Smooth Moves

-Shipped 2.36 million worldwide
[...] "

I think it went down a bit after that, but that was quite a bit of sales, and I'm willing to think that Gold will have more. could be wrong
Gold: "The game sold 31,018 physical copies within its first week on sale in Japan, placing it at third on the all-format sales chart for the week "

that's not bad. I think. I mean, none of it compares to nintendo's strongest ips, but I think it was mostly seen as a spinoff and it still took off.

 

[warelander]

Say, what do you think would be the general reaction if Kat and Ana were revealed to be newcomers?

Above all else there would obviously be countless surprised reactions and likely speculations on whether or not they were planned to be promoted for a while now.

On a general basis I do think that they would be warmly welcomed, especially if their moveset is compelling. We already got several heavy hitters revealed, so the would make for a good surprise choice to spice things up.

Plus, Wario doesn't have any other reps yet and Wario's cast always struck as the kind of characters that aren't heavily considered by the masses, but would really be able to prove their appeal if they were given the chance for a Roster spot.

 

[Teeb147]

I feel like fans that wanted much more a character that was more popular will be upset with them, because lots of people think some are more 'deserving' than others. I think Nintendo can do whatever they want. But it's also true that it's a good idea to go with popular ones. It's just awesome when you get a character you like in either way

There'd definitely be some surprise, cuz there hasn't been as much talk for them.

I hope you're right that they'd be welcomed tho. I think they're easy to like :D

 

[DeltaSceptile]

Wow. More people are supporting Kat & Ana then I thought.

Of course. The reason behind this is that there’s tons of fans for them, but seeing as this fan base is less vocal, no one was probably willing to make a thread supporting them, probably because they thought no one shared the opinion that these two would be a nice inclusion. Now that someone did, they no longer have to worry about that part and have a place to show support.

 

[Teeb147]

Maybe also the fanbase for Kat&Ana doesn't see things exactly the same as other
Not necessarily, but sometimes it's true. Look at different fans and they think differently than others. Sometimes that's good, other times there's divisions. I prefer no divisions

( this should be my 1000th post. yay :D)

 

[RileyXY1]

Of course. The reason behind this is that there’s tons of fans for them, but seeing as this fan base is less vocal, no one was probably willing to make a thread supporting them, probably because they thought no one shared the opinion that these two would be a nice inclusion. Now that someone did, they no longer have to worry about that part and have a place to show support.

Yeah. They didn't seem like a likely inclusion until Ashley was deconfirmed and they survived another AT massacre.

 

[warelander]

Yeah. They didn't seem like a likely inclusion until Ashley was deconfirmed and they survived another AT massacre.

That's a big thing that makes me both excited and nervous (for the lack of a better word) at the same time.

-Them not being shown for so long could be a sign of something big to come, since they have been active in Smash since Brawl and Ultimate is their first shot at a roster spot.

-We might be seeing the AT again, before we even know it.

-Or the worst case scenario, they are not playable and their AT has been axed.

The latter would be really deflating, I'd much rather have them playable, but I'd also be grateful for getting the AT again, because that's still a kind of attention that the rest of Nintendo, outside of their home series (and maybe Rhythm Heaven sometime again) won't be giving them anytime soon.

 

[Teeb147]

So, I changed my view on Kat&Ana not being able to be Ice Climbers echos. I was watching IC played and I could see a way for them to make Kat & Ana have those physics and hitboxes. It would mean a bit of cleverness for making the katanas fit the hammer hitboxes, but even that wouldn't be too hard I think. The toughest would probably be to make it look ok when they get it, for the hurtboxes to match their bodies. I think it's possible, though a bit tougher.

So, obviously I'd want them to be clones rather than echoes, and I think it'd be better if they were faster and had a better quick fair, but other than that they could totally be echoes too. And If that's what'd make the difference for them to be easily playable, then that might just be ok and work

 

[Samcrumpit]

So this idea has been talked about a couple times on Wario threads on 4chan: What if Kat & Ana haven't been seen because they were removed due to a redundancy issue with Latios and Latias?

I think it's very unlikely that Ultimate would take assist trophies away but who knows.

 

[warelander]

They are rather similar, though the fact that both were already kept in For might suggest that it wasn't seen an issue and if it is a issue now then, well....all the more reason to promote the Ninja Twins amIrigthlads?

Anyone else feel like Kat and Ana would have their own victory theme, ala' Dark Pit if they were playable?

In my opinion it's almost a bit of a must, because while Wario's victory theme is great, it was clearly made with him in mind and it's a (much appreciated) Wario Land remix to boot, so it's not really fit for a WarioWare character.

The most ideal scenario to me would be a remix of a snippet of Four Seasons, but WarioWare has plenty small jingles to borrow from, if they want to just have a theme for Ware characters in general.

 

[Samcrumpit]

Anyone else feel like Kat and Ana would have their own victory theme, ala' Dark Pit if they were playable?

In my opinion it's almost a bit of a must, because while Wario's victory theme is great, it was clearly made with him in mind and it's a (much appreciated) Wario Land remix to boot, so it's not really fit for a WarioWare character.

The most ideal scenario to me would be a remix of a snippet of Four Seasons, but WarioWare has plenty small jingles to borrow from, if they want to just have a theme for Ware characters in general.

Oh yeah, I almost forgot DP's has his theme music as his victory jingle. If they ever add in Warioware characters they probably would all have unique jingles, since most have a track you can associate with just them.

 

[Teeb147]

I havent' payed too much attention to music and jingles in warioware, but I think there's plenty to choose from, especially if they're representing warioware.

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

So with WW Gold, I became even more fan of Kat & Ana. It's the best design for them so far, they are just too adorable.

 

[Teeb147]

I'm not sure I like that they're a tad chubbier, but then again that might increase their chances of fitting Ice Climbers' hurtboxes if they don't have time to make them 100% unique lol.

I like their eyes in the skinnier design too, but it doesn't matter to much, they're all cute :D

 

[Erotic&Heretic]

I'm not sure I like that they're a tad chubbier, but then again that might increase their chances of fitting Ice Climbers' hurtboxes if they don't have time to make them 100% unique lol.

View attachment 158504


I like their eyes in the skinnier design too, but it doesn't matter to much, they're all cute :D

What I like is how adorable their faces are. Not only hair have more volume, but Kat have that "trustworthy, benevolent" smile, while Ana... Who can hate such an expression really?

They really came a long way since the first Warioware IMO.

 

[warelander]

Gold's entire artstyle has grown on me a ton once the game came out, I did a double take at the design changes at first, but....

Yup. Still precious beyond belief.